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TandemJeremy - MemberHe dropped with his feet higher than his head - dangerous tackle- read the rules as posted above. Certain penalty - another day another ref could have been only a yellow but its not outrageous to be a straight red.
I'll listen to the people who know what they're talking about thanks.
The key term in that memo is "With no regard for the players safety", Warberton clearly had this regard as he let go before the tackle becam speared. It was unfortunate that he was off balance to ensure the player was grounded securley, clearly a Yellow.
I'll say it again ...France were cr4p -and will get hammered next weekend
Sorry TJ, but you're wrong
99 times out of 100 I'd agree with anyone saying this. However, this is not one of them...
Read the memo in the twitter link up there. The rules are unequivocally clear, actually.
agree with above ref Jones, he shit himself, he did not want the drop kick, u could see phillips staring at him! Jones hang up your boots, thanks for everthing but time to go. gatlands got it right the younguns will rise and rise. ref the tackle defo a card but yellow. anyway what's done is done!
The key term in that memo is "With no regard for the players safety", Warberton clearly had this regard as he let go before the tackle became speared. It was unfortunate that he was off balance to ensure the player was grounded securley, clearly a Yellow.
Gutted for Wales. They should have taken the opportunity for a drop goal near the end.
They played superbly considering the daft ref.
How can a ref called Alain Rolland who has a French father keep being given key France matches to referee? That's like getting a ref called Sean Kelly to ref Ireland or Gordon Campbell a Scottish match.
Jamie Roberts talking sense now.
The tackler has a responsibility to ensure the player lands safely - whatever Warburton did, the player stood up and walked away, so he did land safely...
Very mature interview from Jamie Roberts, not rising to the bait about the ref.
On the bright side, the welsh will forever be able to claim that they were robbed of the WC which I guess is better than the reality of being a losing finalist 😉
Allez les Bleus!
whatever Warburton did, the player stood up and walked away, so he did land safely...
I was driving down the high street at 100mph the other day, but I didn't kill anyone, so I must have done it safely 🙄
Zokes,
If you had regard for everyones safety then yes you did!
Well whatever the opinion on the card I think Wales were the better side, it was the missed pens and conversion that cost us. France didn't score a single point in open play. They will get smashed by whoever wins tomorrow.
If nothing else, it sets up the possibility of letting NZ hump France off the park next week - I reckon there's a fair chance we'll see France being exposed really badly.
unless Allain Rolland is reffing that game as well?
It's all over now, Wales were unlucky but they missed 8 points of kicks so can't really pin it all on a bad tackle/bad decision.
Bugger.
Interesting interview with Dausetoir - kind of a just happy to get to the final attitude, rather than we'll go and win it now. Not much talent, a lot of heart, he said!
It was the South Africa all over again really...
The odds were against Wales...
Yet you always felt Wales should and would win...
But the Welsh kicking was sub par and they didn't take the opportunities for points...
To end up losing by a single point
The red card was super harsh but not "wrong" under a subjective interpretation of the law. To be fair, if the French had lost through the Leigh Halfpenny kick then they would have rightly been unhappy given how Charteris held on to the ball on the floor two or three times. These may not be directly comparable ref decisions but Wales still were given their chances
Now lets smash the Southern Hemisphere for 3rd place and show the world what could and should have been!!!
Now lets smash the Southern Hemisphere for 3rd place and show the world what could and should have been!!!
Now that's talking sense.
What, in the Twitter link is conclusive that it should have been a red?
"The p`layer is lifted then forced or 'speared' into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.
The tackling player released, so he wasn't forced or 'speared' into the ground.
"The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player's safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle."
Open to interpretation, what does 'a height' mean? Who decides the level of regard shown? The ref decided it was a red. End.
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They'll destroy the Meateaters!
+1 smash the Aussies!
You guys have forgotten the choke factor.... You might get the ABs yet!
So what do we think would make a better final?
Aus vs. Fra would be my pick.
I don't think France have any sort of a chance against NZ
It would be mightly nice for the Welsh to go on and humiliate NZ with a win but this may just be wishful thinking 😀
P.S. There have been several tackle's like Sam's this RWC and none have got red to the best of my knowledge. There was a period a year or so ago when feet above the head was an automatic red in Southern Hemisphere competitions but common sense seems to have to over lately and the automatic red ruling was relaxed to only being applied if there was real intent to drop a guy on his head. The law itself didn't change at all though (after the BOD incident that is).
wonder what the citing comissioner will say, if they dont ban him for a time it will be a tacit admission the ref got it wrong
No, the AB's have sorted it with the ref's so we can smash the Aussies!
as I've said all along, any of the other three teams in the semis should smash my Froggy compatriots. Thing with them though is that from time to time they can simply rip any team apart. especially the ABs at WCs, it seems.
so, a narrow, undeserved win today sets them up perfectly.
Though chances are they'll be hammered. never mind, it's just a game 😉
On this occasion I don't agree that Jones bottled it.
That series of rucks was only just inside the French half. He would have had to take the drop goal from within his own half - very difficult and low chance of success. Given how well Wales were keeping possession through the game, to keep going at them and try and force a penalty was the more logical option. A place kick from the French ten metre line, from Halfpenny, would be far more likely to go over than a drop goal from past halfway. Ok, they didn't get the penalty, but I don't think Jones was close enough for a drop goal.
I agree about the 1/2p missed penalty. There was no ruck, Charteris was on the ground, having release the ball and then played it again. Should have been a penalty the other way - and on another day that sort of offence earns the player a yellow card.
The red card was harsh, but not outrageous. Other games it might have got a yellow. However just because it was the WC Semi-Final does not mean that the laws should be changed. A dangerous tackle should and must be punished regardless of what is the match and when it happened.
Well thats the end of a great adventure, very proud of being Welsh and not ashamed to say I have a tear in my eye.
I thought France were really poor in a cagey game even Dausetoir said they didnt play good rugby in his interview.
I thought the refs decision to send off Warburton was really poor but it lets the "pay attention to me" usual suspects talk utter bollox
Want the All Blacks to win now so will support them.
but Il don't think Jones was close enough for a drop goal.
he was in the sequence where he finally took the ball into contact and knocked it on. He was never in the right position.
France tried to blow Wales away after half time and failed, they then seemed to tire.
That series of rucks was only just inside the French half. He would have had to take the drop goal from within his own half - very difficult and low chance of success. Given how well Wales were keeping possession through the game, to keep going at them and try and force a penalty was the more logical option. A place kick from the French ten metre line, from Halfpenny, would be far more likely to go over than a drop goal from past halfway. Ok, they didn't get the penalty, but I don't think Jones was close enough for a drop goal.
The bit where he took the pass stood in the pocket, hesitated, then lumbered into the french forwards and dropped the ball was within the 22
+1 pigface, Blackness to take the home win now
The bit where he took the pass stood in the pocket, hesitated, then lumbered into the french forwards and dropped the ball was within the 22
thats the bit I was talking about, he never went into the pocket though.
I agree about the 1/2p missed penalty. There was no ruck, Charteris was on the ground, having release the ball and then played it again. Should have been a penalty the other way - and on another day that sort of offence earns the player a yellow card.
yeah that was a shocker from the ref.
me too, All Blacks all the way now
not even a pen, ****in refs 😆
Bravo AA but TJ will argue black is white.
Landed on his arse, head always above the torso. Not even dangerous.
Have any of the similar tackles been cited at this RWC? There have been several that have escaped even a yellow, and it would be tinge resting to know if they've been punished after the event.
Glitchy bump
bump
I think I am going to order a new bike to cheer myself up
Has it finally died?
Is there another glitch?
Who's broken it this time?
the Frogs broke it, just like Welsh dreams 😉
I would argue Sam's tackle was more of a "tip" tackle than a "spear".
This distinction that only driving the player to the ground constitutes a "spear" and a bit of a careless/ unfortunate tackle where the feet go high is a "tip" seems to have been a common sense addition from the SH when harsh calls were made as soon as the feet go above the head.
Very interesting to see the IRB come out with a statement so soon to declare that they agree this was without doubt a spear tackle. As others have mentioned it would be interesting to see how the citing goes.
I forget which game it was (maybe France last time???) when Hook let a smaller player go in the tackle and the player fell head/ upper body first. This was a yellow and the consensus was that even yellow was a bit harsh but probably justified under the law...
Don't write off the French just yet
Another controversial one:
[url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/01/1791/florian-fritz-gives-the-finger-after-red-for-dangerous-tackle ]Florian Fritz[/url]
I wonder who the referee was? 😀
This example seems super harsh too but it is very interesting to see the reaction of the commentators.
The tackle here was different for sure (falls on the side more than the head/ upper back) and there was more of a 'driving' action going on but I would argue still no less of a harsh call
Harsh, clubber, harsh
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all meant in jest. as I said, it's just a game.
What about [url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/01/1790/jason-whites-big-tackle-on-chris-wyles ]this [/url]one?
Seems quite similar to me and a great bit of defensive skill.
Both the Healy-Cooper call and the Warburton-Clerc call were tachnically correct. If the tackler raises the players hips higher than his head, then they are resposible for getting him back on the ground safely. That said, it wasn't a malicious tackle from Warburton, he deserved a yellow.
The IRB are trying to legislate every single aspect of the game and this is a perfect example of removing a referee's discretion causing an unfair decision. Its particularly galling given the complete lack of consistency and backbone the IRB show in their own citing process.
[url= http://paddypowerblog.wordpress.com/ ]"Justice Refund"[/url]
PaddyPower are refunding any bets placed on Wales to win.
Absolute disgrace.
Another idiotic piece of refereeing ruins the RWC.
Why didn't the stupid **** at least consult with a touch judge rather than raise the red card so quickly?
Then the touch judge could've said "It wasn't malicious, he let go of him. Possibly a yellow but the Frenchie's made a meal of it. Don't send off their captain and best player and ruin the game or you'll look like a total prick!"
Having said all that, Wales still had plenty of chances to win the game due to their truly heroic performance - but blew them. 🙁
The Final is surely tomorrow - I can't see Les Bleus rising above their general level of incompetence.
Both the Healy-Cooper call and the Warburton-Clerc call were tachnically correct. If the tackler raises the players hips higher than his head, then they are resposible for getting him back on the ground safely.
law makes no mention of head or hips, Healy picked him up he should put him down according to the law.
Pretty sure Warbaton was pinged against Ireland for a similar tackle and not even carded.
I'm totally gutted for a_a and all the Welsh fans.
They'd have won at a canter with 15 men. France were rubbish.
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth for the whole tournament. THe final would've been great with Wales against NZ/Aus. A real celebration of rugby. Now it's all been snatched away by another official carried away by his own self-importance.
I just hope Wales can beat whoever they get in the Third place game otherwise lets be honest all they've done is beat Ireland, which is a good performance but nothing exceptional.
Well, I'm gutted for Wales but also for good rugby. It really boils my urine when worse sides beat better sides through stupid things happening.
So many times we've had to deal with 'oh well we could've/should've won that match'.. but this time we really properly should have and it's bloody annoying. We had to lose a man to be lowered to the same level as the French, to make it a tight game.
The lads done good, I'm more proud of the team than I have ever been. We'll romp home in the 6N at this rate 😉
France may have looked as if they were controlling the match based on the game situation, but i'm not sure it was so much by design - didn't put half as much pressure on the Welsh as they should have and thus i think were incapable of doing so, lineout excepted. Thus, to their credit Wales didn't give many kickable penalties away in the second half, nor have their try line crossed - very impressive.
I thought Wales controlled the game, they seemed to be forcing the game to stay tight to help their 14 men. France couldn't do anything really, remember we scored the only try and would have won with even one of those missed kicks. That's not whingeing, just pointing out how good Wales still were. Except at place kicking 🙂
Although the high speed replay of Hook's boot slipping was an interesting one.
[i]High speed replay of Hook's boot slippage was an interesting one[/i]
So Msr.Rolain did trip him?!
Can't believe some folk are writing Australia off... Although their chances are diminished slighty with Beale out.
Australia who? 😆
[url= http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2058970.html#defeated+wales+warburton+card ]Interesting selective quotes in IRB match report :)[/url]
I have only just seen the English coverage of the game and it seems Fran and Lawrence were more irate than the Welsh! 😀
I love Mike Phillips 😉
From Eurosport...
Asked whether he could have touched down a bit closer to the posts to allow Stephen Jones an easier conversion, Phillips was initially lost for words.
"It was a great try," he said. "I done my job, kickers should be kicking, I done my job."
It certainly puts a lot more pressure on the game tomorrow - like there wasn't enough already !
as usual I agree with Dean Ryan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/oct/15/france-wales-rugby-world-cup
The laws of the game may well state that Rolland was technically correct in the narrow sense in sending Sam Warburton off, but from the perspective of natural justice and empathy for the game, that decision was absolutely wrong. A health and safety focus has been allowed to ruin a game.The referee should be allowed the discretion to make judgments but the tip tackle has been prioritised by the authorities leading into this World Cup, which puts pressure on referees to focus on it and punish it. Other referees have failed to act, which may now have left Rolland isolated. I think Rolland made a mistake, but I'm not carrying the burden of what the International Rugby Board wants to prioritise.
It's like this TJ; reffing acts of foul play.... the mental process is as follows; you only have a second to make your decision so as you see it happen "Oh Christ!" yellow. "Oh ya F***er!" red. In your opinion which one of these suits the dump tackle?
Ooof!!!
Went for a ride, managed to ride past a farmer sat in his landy listening to the game and heard the commentator say "..and it looks like France will be playing.." so i rode off sharpish before i heard the score! Managed to shed a brake pad from my front brake as well so had to limp home...:(
After seeing that tackle i have to say that whilst a red 'may' have been harsh it did look like he didn't take the required care to put the player down. Either way, it stuffed Wales - that and the 6 missed kicks.
When the dust settles i wonder if there will be any comments about the balls used in this tournament? Many place kickers with sterling records dropped off a cliff this year it seems.
It seems to me it was one of those tackles, which to some extent was just too good ie he was cut in half and over rotated in the tackle. I think Sam knew this, and hence let go of the player which would have been a natural reaction. On hindsight perhaps he should have held on to the player to bring him to the ground gently. This however could have resulted in a proper spear tackle so he was between a rock and a hard place.
I thought Phillips could have got closer at the time, weaving between the two defenders. But I had the advantage of an overhead camera, and it could have been a risk. As he suggested i'd expect someone with 900 points to slot that. As for Jones non-drop goal attempt, trying to get in the perfect position wasn't the crime, taking the ball up at first receiver (and loosing it in the tackle) was.
I was impressed to the welsh reaction to the sending off and in the post match interviews i watched. If it was the english players i'd have half expected a fair amount of moaning and gesticulating.
duckman - as I said earlier
TandemJeremy - Membermaybe. certainly a yellow and you are allways flirting with a red when you do that.
He certainly cannot complain about it. maybe harsh but not ridiculous
As uncomfortable as it makes me to say this....
...i agree with TJ, a red was always a possibility with this sort of tackle.
<goes to wash with carbolic soap!>
Well I just watched the Scablets against leicester and at least 2 reds should of been shown already for similar tackles.
TJ talks a loads of bobbins but Dwarf I am suprised at you.
Gutted for Wales, they played a fantastic game. If that was a red then there should have been some in last weeks NZ v Argentina game. Really took the shine off a superb performance.
Well pigface (sorry, still makes me giggle :P)
The powers that be have targetted the spear/tip tackle so like i say, it was always a possibility. Harsh? maybe.
The commentators, studio experts and it seems many rugby fans suggest it was at best harsh. Running the risk of a red in this instance, to me is what, one chance out of ten, one out of twenty? ie too great to decide a match on.