[Closed] Rugby world cup

If Wales and France both turn up

Very happy being a plastic Taff this weekend 🙂 Is it too much to dare to hope to win the World Cup? I think so but anything can happen so I will keep it hidden & hope for the best while listening to Max Boyce daily.

England - the RFU don't let anything decent happen & I think the first person to go has to be Rob Andrew - very little decent has happened since he got there - well grinding out wins & lucking out has happened but rarely have I watched a match thinking England should win easily, its always too much of a hope they grind it out in the end

Robinson is a great (forwards) coach and a poor selector. He proved the former under SCW and the latter during his tenure as England coach.

Great to see the England lads still enjoying themselves despite being knocked out. Let's hope Manu doesn't sit next to the emergency door on the plane on the way home.

After this weekend I'm changing my name to Dai_RCL - although I will answer to the term boyo...
"Bread of heaven, bread of heaven
Feed me till I want no more (I want no more)"

Well my wife's mother is 1/2 welsh....

glitchy glitchy I want to see the missing posts

Another England player in trouble, and with the law this time. Disrespectful to MJ and the World Cup. 🙄

There again, perhaps he wanted to jump England's sinking ship.

I want to see the missing posts

Don't worry - there wasn't anything good in any of them. 😉

namastebuzz - Member

Robinson is a great (forwards) coach and a poor selector. He proved the former under SCW and the latter during his tenure as England coach.

and confirmed it as Scotland coach.

We thought he might have less difficulty with selection with a much smaller pool to chose from.

he did really well with Edinburgh and I wish he had been left there. Good club coach - not up to it as an international coach

TandemJeremy - Member

glitchy glitchy I want to see the missing posts

TBH I don't think his choice of forwards has been too bad. The backs on the other hand...

I would like to see Townsend replaced, possibly with someone from the southern hemisphere. Hopefully someone that can give some good advice in selections.

Forwards have been Ok but not playing Kelloch? Leaving Beattie at home?

Good set piece but the scottish back row never did what we know they can do - secure quick ball for us and turn over the opposition

Maybe the Jocks could get Martin Johnson, Brian Smith and John Wells when they become "available"?

You're welcome to have Rob Andrew too. 😆

No thank you.

I thought this was the world cup thread? What are you Scots still doing here?

I didn't get the chance to see much of Beattie after he came back from injury so I can't really say much about his form. As far as Kellock goes, that may have had something to do with the fact that Murray wasn't playing in that game. Possibly Robinson felt that more bulk was needed in the scrum to help make up for the loss of Murray, I don't know.

I think Phil Vickery has stated Andy Robinson is the best forwards coach he has worked with, either domestically or on the international stage. High praise indeed.

As for Englands next forward's coach, perhaps Dean Ryan is worth a punt.

Sounds like priestland, charteris and Roberts will be available by the weekend.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15226972.stm ]bbc[/url]

PMSL @ inigomontoya!

Hmm, looks like some bookies are offering 6/1 for Wales to win the cup... In response to A_A I don't think it's highly unlikely, just unlikely 🙂 In the past Wales have often played well against the French but that was in the past, I'm not sure previous form applies in these turbulent times.

I hope that the French implode in turmoil rather than trying to prove a point to Lievremont.

From [url= http://gwladrugby.com/?p=676 ]Gwladrugby[/url]
There are currently two kinds of people in Wales; those who are already fearing a beating from France and set for a week of utter nervous torment, and those who have embraced the teachings of the Optimism Gnome and are set for a week of delirious adrenalin-fuelled over-exuberance punctuated by occasional calls to ambulance staff to administer sedatives or slaps, and some involuntary weeing.

I'm currently veering randomly between the two.

Some of you Welsh fans should get on a plane - there are still 8000 tickets on sale for the match on saturday. Once in a lifetime opportunity and all that. Although you will be sharing a stadium with some disappointed and miscalculating England fans, and some rather startled French ones !

Hels - thanks for that.. Let me see if I can remortgage my house quickly to get a plane ticket... Or perhaps I'll buy a battered old bus and drive over 60s style.

If this were a 6N match, with given form, you'd expect Wales to pummel France.

Speaking of which.. Wales grand slam 2012 anyone? 🙂 Let's make it three in 7 years!

hels - Member
I don't think Wales should be so confident, the Good French team might turn up next week, you never know. Still, it would be good to see !!

Wales don't seem to have a problem with France any more, having beaten them regularly enough over the last few years.

(and everybody called Colin in NZ is going to have a very bad day at work today - he wasn't much was he ? Couldn't get him off the pitch fast enough)

To be fair to him, he wasn't on the pitch for long enough to show what he could do, but based on the form I've seen playing for his province he's not good enough. Cruden did well enough I suppose, but shouldn't scare Australia. Interesting that NZ have called up Donald.

inigomontoya - Member
I thought this was the world cup thread? What are you Scots still doing here?

It's nice to see that most people continue to watch the games and comment on them intelligently regardless of their team being knocked out.

molgrips - Member

Speaking of which.. Wales grand slam 2012 anyone? Let's make it three in 7 years!

😆 In the unlikely event that Wales win the RWC, I have a feeling that they'll still be hung over in February.

Wales don't seem to have a problem with France any more, having beaten them regularly enough over the last few years.

There's something that commonly comes before a fall. Can't remember what it is though.... 😉

The French have a habit of turning up when you least expect it, and whilst I accept our shambolic efforts against them this weekend may have flattered them somewhat, you'd be just as daffy as the English were to think that it's a done deal.

zokes - Member

Wales don't seem to have a problem with France any more, having beaten them regularly enough over the last few years.

There's something that commonly comes before a fall. Can't remember what it is though....

No I don't mean it that way, more that they aren't a bogey team for Wales in the way that NZ are.

There's something that commonly comes before a fall. Can't remember what it is though....

Hosea Gear and Stephen Donald called up by the ABs.

Both of them may end up featuring.

[i]Hosea Gear[/i]

How many wingers do they need? Moving Sonny Bill to the wing was a strange decision when they have Guildford, Jane, Dagg and now Gear.
Anyway, they better get it right next weekend or they won't be making the final!

I think that you'll find that most Welsh are quite realistic and recognise that we're only as good as we are.

As an Englishmen I'm torn between wanting Wales to win the RWC
but then having to suffer their [s]abuse[/s]banter for 4 years
with the gain of being able to silence any Kiwi by dramatically grabbing my throat
but mainly because I think it would be great for the Welsh and great for the game

against

the Kiwis winning (NZ has had a tough year) and all southern hemisphere types continuing to be insufferably smug.

On the whole I'd like Wales to win though as it reminds of my childhood with my Dad and his best mate Taff (I never knew his real name). If Wales beat England in the 5 nations I'd have to answer the phone:
me "Hello who's speaking please"
Welsh voice "Hello D is your dad in?" <smug voice>
me "No ermmm he's gone out." My dad was usually crying into his beer
Welsh voice "Tell him I thought England played as well as they could...."
This was the 70's so I had to answer the phone quite regularly.

Funny, that's pretty much the exact opposite of the impression that I have of (most) welsh fans

Its funny, if you read the English centric media or believe what ITV tells us, England are constantly under achieving despite having wonderful players, sooner or later surely they have to realise.

Wales are what we always have known since 2005, if everyone is fit they usually have 15 players who can give anyone a game, we even have a few decent bench options now, but if for example Adam Jones and Jamie Roberts went down injured they would be screwed. Wales are benefitting from good coaching, good fitness and only have Matt Rees injured. Well and the man god Henson but I'm happy to discount him as he's not played for decades.

How many wingers do they need? Moving Sonny Bill to the wing was a strange decision when they have Guildford, Jane, Dagg and now Gear.

Guildford was injured for the quarter final and Jane's had a few knocks too. Dagg, who was also injured for the game, is now the only fullback.

is Mulinia injured then?

[img] [/img]hey Bryce you **** this isnt legal on so many levels, going in the side and trying to rip heads off could be considered dangerous.

bootiful [img] [/img]

and then the reverse angle with gumshield flying is even better
[img] [/img]

Schalk Burger's fingers near eyes yet again? Surely not. 👿

Peter de Villiers resigned. Does anybody else find him incredibly irritating?

I HATE schalk burger. Nasty dirty bastard. He should have been banned from the game years ago IMO.

Todd Blackadder for Scotland coach?

Muliaaina has a fractured shoulder and is out. Slade injured, groin, must be a number 10 thing. Called up Donal and Gear who I think should have been there from the start. Donald though is a muppet. I think NZ will edge Australia and Wales will beat France.
It's disgusting though the gouging that has been going in with hotels and stuff. Guy next to me was paying 390 a night for a bed in a crap motel. No wonder there are still tickets le, bloody IRB setting prices waaaay to high. Although at least we have Joubert refereeing our game.
Exciting times.

Loving DoC trying to stop the Doc (geddit)

There was a bit where Phillips handed off/pushed back one of the irish 2nd row for about 10m....it looked great.

[i]hey Bryce you **** this isnt legal on so many levels, going in the side and trying to rip heads off could be considered dangerous.[/i]

I thought he was supposed to have been biased to Australia. Jeez what was he watching when that was going on?
Apart from that Burger had a good game.

bump

just realised the tag "arse oout in burtons window if this makes 3000" wonder who put that in?

👿

Thankfully the pommy rugby teams departing our shores.What did they give to the game.Miserable soulless rugby, no smiles, boorish behaviour and attitude.Goodbye and dont hurry back.Thankfully there should be some entertaining rugby ahead with four teams full of entertainment and skill to cap off a very successful and enjoyable rugby festival.One of the great joys has been seeing all the different nationalities travelling the country and enjoying there time here.

I thought he was supposed to have been biased to Australia

Not sure he was biased although the try he took back for the forward pass was wrong IMO. He just reduced the breakdown to a farce which meant SA could never get any momentum

check this one out for quality off your feet action

two aussie tackles seal off the ball and two Saffa's go in like synchronised divers!!!

I have to say I don't agree AA - he was more lenient than some at the breakdown but it was the same for both sides. Multiple offences from both sides in the clip above.

forward pass was forward as well on my telly

Thankfully the pommy rugby teams departing our shores.What did they give to the game.Miserable soulless rugby, no smiles, boorish behaviour and attitude.Goodbye and dont hurry back.Thankfully there should be some entertaining rugby ahead with four teams full of entertainment and skill to cap off a very successful and enjoyable rugby festival.One of the great joys has been seeing all the different nationalities travelling the country and enjoying there time here.

First time i've seen that jamie roberts rampage. Didn't he run over Hape in the 2nd warm up match?

Multiple offences from both sides in the clip above

But rules is rules and the problem was he let so much go it was just dangerous, had Bakkies Botha been playing he'd have broken Pockock for sure because he wasnt blowing for pens early enough. Aus tackles just lay all over the ball and Pocock got hands on, he let let it keep going so the Saffas were diving head first into Pocock or trying to pull his head off.

Did you watch the IRB explanation of a forward pass I posted earlier?

If the ref blew for every infringement the game would never get going. its a question of how lenient they want to be

A forward pass is a forward pass - if it travels towards the goal line at all. Nothing to do with where the men are or how they are running - its the flight of the ball that matters. teh rules are quite clear

It was forward IMO

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Multiple offences from both sides in the clip above

But rules is rules.....

The breakdown is the area that was supposed to be stringently reffed this year, but we still have piles of bodies on the ground, players coming in from all directions, etc, etc. (Obviously Ireland are the worst offenders, DD! 😆 )

I'm assuming that the refs in NZ have been instructed to make sure that the game is accessible to non-rugby watchers and to cut down on the more technical decisions, but I can't believe the amounts of knock-ons that are being waved on, the offside that is allowed.

As you say, the breakdwon situation is becoming dangerous. If the rules were applied properly though, they would benefit teams with proper open side flankers. Such as the 4 that have got through to the quarters.

Anyway, not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll stop!

if it travels towards the goal line at all. Nothing to do with where the men are or how they are running

not true according to the IRB
see here this is originally from the IRB website
www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Yes it is - check the rule book

DEFINITION: THROW FORWARD

A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/12/111/during-the-match/knock-on-or-throw-forward/definition-throw-forward/#clause_111

Lots of people including those who put the clip together get confused about this - but the rule is clear. there was some discussion of the momentum pass and so on but the rule remains the same

so have you watched the video? care to explain how seemingly 90% of the passes in a game are not ruled forward then?

Lots of people including those who put the clip together get confused about this

that'll be the IRB, you know the people who make the rules and control the refs?

Read the rules from the IRB.

Some forward passes don't get called because of the optical illusion you refer to but the rules as defined by the IRB is clear and as I quoted

A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

I think you are missing the point, if you throw it forward its a forward pass clearly, but you can throw it backwards ie towards your own dead ball line and the over all direction of the pass can be forward from the point of release.

while your here, do you still think all of Scotlands 9 options are superior to Mike Phllips 😆

AA - have athink about it

The only thing that matters is the direction of the ball. You either throw it towards the opponents dead ball line or you don't

but you can throw it backwards ie towards your own dead ball line and the over all direction of the pass can be forward from the point of release.

A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line

That's not clear at all! You can THROW the ball backwards, but it can TRAVEL forwards because you're running forwards.

Which is what the vid says.

Anyway this is a stupid argument and can we PLEASE not destroy this RWC thread with such nerdiness? Please? 🙂

Not impossible. Throw a ball on a backward diagonal out of the window of a car doing 30mph or so, see where it ends up relative to the point of release.
Same principle.
You can throw a ball backwards, relative to the moving thrower, that travels forward relative to the ground.

molgrips - if you throw the ball backwards it travels backwards, if it travels forward you threw it forward. Stuey its relative to the dead ball line that counts. thats what the law says

Very clear and the law is clear.

Philips - on my list of people you would never get tired of slapping

if you throw the ball backwards it travels backwards, if it travels forward you threw it forward

🙄

You know who this is?

[img] [/img]

Which direction would the ball go if the thrower is on a conveyor belt?

I know what the law says, I've read it too.
It says that if the ball is thrown forward then it is a forward pass. It doesn't say anything about the ball [b]travelling[/b] forward.
The video demonstrates that it is possible to throw a ball backwards, that actually travels forwards. That is why there is room for interpretation in the law, and the allowing of the "momentum pass" by the referees.

A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘[b]Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line[/b].

thats the wording in the IRB rulebook. Not relative to the player - relative to the dead ball line

It ois simply impossible to throw the ball backwards and it travel forwards 🙄 mo0menteum pass is not allowed for.

TJ slapping Mike Phillips 😆

If you throw it backwards over your head, you are THROWING it away from the opponent's line, aren't you? But the ball can travel forwards.

Moving frame of reference - that sentence does not address the problem of moving reference frames.

It doesn't say "the ball must not travel towards the dead ball line" does it? It says it must not be thrown towards it. It's possible to both throw the ball away from the dead ball line and have it travel towards it.

It ois simply impossible to throw the ball backwards and it travel forwards

Yes it is. Clearly possible.

Very simple physics, now let's move on.

TJ in physics arguing black is white shocker....

The physics is clear and so is the law. Its in relation to the dead ball line not the player according to the law, that vid is from the ARU as a discussion piece. the "momentum" pass is allowed in league but not in union.

the law is clear. Even if the movement of the players arms is backwards in relation to the player if the ball goes forward due to his movement forward it is a forward pass.

In which case, there have been one hell of a lot of forward passes that have gone unnoticed, including several over-the-head ones. Perhaps the clear law is clearly wrong and clearly needs updating to account for basic physics?

Of course, were the players on a conveyor belt......

Passing
A player may pass (throw the ball) to a team mate who is in a better position to continue the attack, [b]but the pass must not travel towards the opposing team’s goal line. It must travel either directly across the field, or back in the direction of the passer’s own goal line.[/b]

The physics is clear

To us, yes. Apparently not to you 🙂 If it were you'd realise that the rulebook and that training document (ie not a rulebook) contradict each other.

The IRB have published that forward pass video on their own youtube channel, so I think it's clear where the game's rulemakers stand on this issue.

guys - the rule and the physics are clear. I understand what you are saying about the momentum pass - in relation to the player its backward. However it is clearly not allowed for in the rules which define the movement of the ball in relation to the dead ball line.

The two links I post do not contradict each other, there never has been a directive from the IRB allowing the momentum pass nor has there been any rule change.

yes stuey =- that the momentum pass is not allowed. its very clear. I cannot believe you are arguing for this

Point to an IRB rule, directive or anything else that says it is allowed. the vid does not. Its a discussion piece

However it is clearly not allowed for in the rules which define the movement of the ball in relation to the dead ball line.

But they don't. They define the direction of the throw in relation to the dead ball line.

I'll say it very slowly. everything is measured in relation to the dead ball line. the direction of the throw and the movement of the ball relative to the dead ball line are the same. even if the throw is backward in relation to the player it can be forward in relation to the dead ball line and that is the only thing that counts. In relation to the dead ball line

I ask again

What IRB rule, interpretation, directive or any other document allows the momentum pass? when were the refs told to allow these passes as not being forward?

You patronising sod.

The rule does not reference the direction of travel of the ball, only the direction of the throw. You are inferring that this is the same as the travel of the ball. There is room for interpretation of the law. This is why it is debated on forums and in pubs the world over. This is why people have gone to the trouble to produce videos about it.