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The only game plan at the end was get it to the Samoan 😆
Relied on old players for to long and havent brought enough youth through, so what if you have a couple of shocking 6N's build up the foundations of a good side and dont coach the bejesus out of them.
Wales owes a huge debt of gratitude to Graham Henry for sorting out the WRU. We arent world beaters yet but they way Wales are playing is so positive. Gatland said a few harsh things today on 5 Live which the likes of JJ will get all arsey about. He has a point though.
Well we fell one hurdle short of where i (and most England fans i know) thought we were going to fall.
We need to go back to basics (at all levels) seems most the players don't know the rules
Oh and watch the frikkin ball! At least twice in the game today England players were hit by a passed ball as they weren't watching it.
Glitch
Well we fell one hurdle short of where i (and most England fans i know) thought we were going to fall.
We need to go back to basics (at all levels) seems most the players don't know the rules
Oh and watch the frikkin ball! At least twice in the game today England players were hit by a passed ball as they weren't watching it.
Bump
That's what i mean Pigface - England really need to look at how Wales turned it around with - lets face it - a fraction of the resources available.
What a great morning of rugby
Wales - awesome. I thought Ireland would win but they were outplayed by a great side.
England. They were the best in a very poor group and came up short against a very poor French side. England need to start from scratch as was said above. They have the resources. Pretty much everything else is wrong.
Wales should romp home against France. Let's hope they do not get complacent
I so hope for a NZ vs Wales final. WIll be a great spectacle. Sure the Wlesh want a rematch against SA.
Have claimed dual nationality, Go Wales ! 😛
Well the huge difference Dwarf is that you have a good set up in place while we were flat out f*cked. Its taken ages with some real humiliation along the way. Now it seems to be going in the right direction. Real momentum.
I dont think Johnson is the right man for the job never did.
Lol@ england. Unless you get your structure right and sort out the shambles that is the rfu and the premiership you will never be world beaters again.
Clive woodward walked because of the shambles that was running the game. You are now paying for this. Boring one dimensional rugby thankfully has lost today!
Jeremy is a good welsh names isn't it. Can I support Wales please?
I think you hit the nail a couple of minutes ago muddydwarf regarding expectation, I also think that the attitude of the English fans in this thread this morning wouldn't encourage me to play for England a case of sing when you're winning. I was tremendously proud of Wales after the SA game, we lost, but we lost with style. We've also taken the same style to the semis. I won't drop my team when we go through a bad patch, it's my team come rain or shine.
On the field, back to basics, lower expectations and never give up. 😉
Jeremy is a good welsh names isn't it. Can I support Wales please?
No 'J' in the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_orthography ]Welsh alphabet[/url], I'm afraid.
PigfaceI dont think Johnson is the right man for the job never did.
Me too too many players have had to force their way into the team or the changes have been forced on him by injury instead of being brought in. Too much sticking with the guys he knows and trusts - Tindall anyone?
Was Bananaman and Wrigglesworth the only backs on the bench today? where was the threat?
It's about a good a Welsh name as it is a Scottish 😛
This is the most happy day of my life. Pack your bags boys!
Houns - MemberIt's about a good a Welsh name as it is a Scottish
Yeremi?
Playing with style is what everyone wants to see! Id rather lose with panache than bore the world to death!
Hopefully the gavin henson debate has been put to bed forever in wales now. Hes not good enough to wear the jersey! Mentally anyway.
England rugby has the same issues as england football . Too many overpaid journeymen in the premiership = lack of development of home talent!
Sorry TJ you have jumped ship once to Scotland we dont want you being a fair weather fan 😉
Lleremi!
Oh i'll never stop supporting England, the difference is that Wales and Ireland et.al played with heart and skill even when losing. England don't do that and it's so frustrating when you KNOW it can be so much better.
The Agh F.U. and the Premiership have to take a good share of the blame as said above, too much conservative thinking going on. I'd much rather do a Wales and take a couple of years of being thrashed so we could build a system that can produce a team capable of good rugby again.
Im a bit worried hat gatland is playing himself into the kiwi coach job!
I don't think 'Ye' exists in Welsh either, I do, however, like the sound of "Lleremi! ". 😆
Correct mr dwarf. I remember england losing 100 odd nil against the aussies in 1996 approx. Time to rebuild!
Lleremi. It's halfway between llanelli and llangennech iirc!
Look at what Sale have done this season.
5yrs ago we won the Prem, then did an England and slid into desperate mediocrity, only the fac that Leeds and Falcons are even worse saved us.
Diamond came in and sacked 40-odd people. Replaced them with local boys from the academy and leavened them with carefully picked quality players. Now bearing fruit and more importantly for the future, we're playing entertaining rugby.
Henson isn't even a blip on the radar for Wales and rightly so. Much better players already wearing the red shirt.
Lol@ england. Unless you get your structure right and sort out the shambles that is the rfu and the premiership you will never be world beaters again.
Clive woodward walked because of the shambles that was running the game. You are now paying for this. Boring one dimensional rugby thankfully has lost today!
Rugby is a minority sport in England. However the power of the clubs exceeds the power of the national side. The RFU needs to take a look at the ECB and copy the model that's propelled English Cricket to the top.
Never mind MDwarf; Francis Barron coming back, that should give you the boost you need 🙄
Where are the players coming from? Thomson,Tindall,Deacon,Shaw,Cueto, Wilkinson,Moody all past their sell by date.
Barron - oh great... 🙄 what was it that Carling said?
Even now the England camp are talking about this team staying and growing, how?
Change the record and stop being too proud to take a lesson from Wales and Ireland.
Yossarian. Look at football. Majority game .. Another english shambles. And i think youll find it's the england and wales cricket team! Lol + any south africans who can bat a bit!
Good point though about the structure of the game. English cricket is set up for the national side. Football and rugby all the power lies with the clubs and hence a national shambles.
'J' is in the welsh alphabet. Never used to be but we needed it otherwise what would we call 'jam'?
Rugby is a minority sport in England.
Maybe a minority sport, but still with a bigger pool than a lot of other countries. The problem is what you do with that pool. This has been discussed at least twice in this rather long thread.
[img]
[/img]And if we don't have a 'J', who the frig are the Joneses?
And still the lowest % of adult males. Says it all really.
English rugby; from the RFU all the way to the team itself needs a full overhaul.
As said above, it's about playing with style. England haven't done that for a while, at least the result gets rid of the idiots who trot out the 'would rather win ugly' cr*p. We couldn't do even that this time around. There's a core of decent young players, but there needs to be a revolution, not least at the RFU. Won't happen, not with the usual suspects holding all the cards 🙁
congratulations to the England haters
you got your wishes
Yossarian. Look at football. Majority game .. Another english shambles
but english football isn't a shambles is it. consistently finishing major tournaments in the qf's is about what we do and about what we should expect. the media might expect more but the (realistic) fans never do.
Enjoyed the raging bull's commentary today. No fancy tactics talk, good turn of phrase, spoke as if he was out there and picked up on little things like body language and how individuals should be reacting or in england players cases, to stop moaning.
Well the people I was out riding with were happy with the result - earphones in to combine MTBing and match following. We all stopped for the last two minutes of play for a countdown to victory.
I'm liking that player chart. It really does show the under and over achievers in world rugby.
Although England only have 6.5 % of senior male players it is still 166000 of them. They have played the same way for decades and have failed to develop an expansive game plan despite having the players to do so. England were lucky to get to the 1/4 's as they got out of jail against both Scotland and Argentina late in the game.
I love watching the French play with thier tails up it's the way rugby should be played. All too often test matches / premiership games end in an arm wrestle. Look at players physiques these days, apparently bigger is better and biggest is best. To get kids interested we need exciting games with plenty of trys. Not huge behemoths trying to knock holes in each other. The all blacks and australia seem to have a better balance between physicality and flair.
166000 of the remaining juniors who chose not to play or weren't good enough to play football instead. Rugby is footballs poor cousin in England and as long as that is the case, will never get the pick of the best athletes. We all know that quantity is nowhere as important as quantity. Look at NZ as a good example of this.
I think the games today highlight the difference in mental attitude, leadership and team spirit between the home nations as others have already said. Super proud of Wales and impressed with Ireland too.
How funny was Mike Phillips? "So were you surprised when the gap opened up for your try?"... "well to be honest there was no gap and I had to beat several players to score a good try" 😀 Not an exact quote but you get the gist of his modesty! Bless him.
I think the only team Wales or France would really fancy in the final is South Africa- a little more predictable and controllable. I'm no fan of France but a France vs NZ final with an northen hemisphere victory would be pretty funny 😀
An example of this is a friend of mine is a national youth coach who was sent to Australia on a coaching course. He watched the Australian under 18 players bring put through their paces. At the debrief the coach asked if there were any questions. My mate queried how they coached the contact. The reply was succinct " we teach them to avoid contact mate". That sums up their coaching philosophy in a sentence.
Im no england hater.... I just hate watching the joy squeezed out of the game by dull play.
Double post
I would say that the number of overseas player in the rugby and football premierships is undoubtedly contributing to the national teams poor displays. Yeah you want a few of the best overseas players but not teams made up of multinational mercenaries.
I would say in football yes there is an argument for that. In rugby England choose to play a style that does not encourage young players to take up the game. As for football taking all the best athletes. Can't agree with that. Your average rugby internationalist is over six feet tall in excess of 15 stone of lean bodyweight and can still run for eighty minutes. hardly a bunch of big fat boys chundering through the mud.(that's sounds like mtbr's)
Off the top of my head, prob 3 or so of gloucester's 36 man squad are overseas. A few from Scotland, mind.
By from overseas scamper do you mean not from the forest of dean ;0)
TandemJeremy - Member
Jeremy is a good welsh names isn't it. Can I support Wales please?
All are welcome in the Welsh camp, TJ! Just remember that it's [b][i]W[/i][/b]elsh with a capital letter, mind you!
And, from here on in, we're all Welsh, right? After all, I supported England when they reached the finals. In fact, I'll support any home nation that does better than Wales, when that happens! (Then France and/or Argentina depending on results!). So, don your leeks, stiffen the vocal chords and let's all sing some hymns and arias....AR HYD Y NOS! 8)
So, on to the next.....I'll miss almost all of tomorrow's games, I think. Which is a shame.
SA v Australia? SA should stroll that one.
NZ v Argentina? As above, a stroll for NZ. But, and it may be a big but, at what cost? What about injuries?
Which leads to a semi line up
Wales v France - Heart says Wales, head says France
SA v NZ - SA to win. That choker just suits NZ so well...
And then? Who knows.......
So, accepting that rugby is a minority sport in England that is poorly supported by the RFU and the kids would prefer to play football over rugby and therefore not a powerhouse in the rugby world, does this mean we'll not get the "England will win the World Cup" rhetoric next time? 😛
Argentina all the way!!
As a rugby fan I loved today's games and you can't be disappointed losing to France because, well, they're France.
It's a shame d-d's gone on holiday as I was going to congratulate him on Ireland equalling their best ever RWC performance and mention it was England's worst. 😉
England have the depth of talent to reach the heights of 2003 consistently if only the structure was there.
The RFU needs to be culled severely and MJ (good bloke though he is) is not an international coach. He's too immersed in the Leicester way - why else were Deacon and Moody playing FFS? Flood and Youngs both bottle it on the big stage too.
Next England fly-half? We need someone like Carter who offers a threat on his own as well as having all the other skills. The Aussies did it by taking a great rugby player and converting him to a fly-half - Stephen Larkham. We should do the same with Ben Foden. OK, he hasn't had a great RWC but he's got all the tools. His preferred position is scrum half so he has the passing/kicking/decision making skills. He has the power/pace/elusive skills of an outside back too. Perfect combo.
It won't happen but maybe it should. 😐
Well I hope Mike Phillips has been given the praise he deserves on here as many have spent a lot of time slagging him off. I think it was Gwyn Jones who said recently that he is a ntural scrum half or a natural in any other position but what he is is a natural rugby player and as such he would be in most teams in the world.
Warburton also pissed on O'B's chips from a great height. An amazing performance by Wales.
I would say that the number of overseas player in the rugby and football premierships is undoubtedly contributing to the national teams poor displays
You know what I think thats rubbish, given a descent coach and a gameplan a little more complicated than dominate up front the current England team could perform so much better. Foden for example wonder what the **** is going on.
Ashton still considered world class by many? He's good when given the ball in behind a defence but when faced with a defensive line he is awful.
Oh and Flood is a perfectly decent outside half.
Yeah Philips had a great game. It's a good point about him being a natural rugby player so he'd do well in most positions - like Foden.
I was glad to see Ireland lose as I think they're beginning to resemble England in green shirts. To be fair, O'Brien is no openside but rather a blindside filling in for David Wallace though Warburton was exceptional.
I love watching Wales play in RWCs because they always play proper exciting rugby, even in defeat (NZ/England/Fiji) so hats off to them and I'd love to see them take on NZ in the final. 🙂
Arent you the gavster biggest fan?
don simondoes this mean we'll not get the "England will win the World Cup" rhetoric next time?
But England WILL win the next RWC, surely. 😉
Arent you the gavster biggest fan?
yes, why?
Thought i remembered you bigging up on here a few weeks ago, thats all.
Long live the king....thought i saw him at the porthcawl elvis festival... He blended in well!
But England WILL win the next RWC, surely.
Last I heard, Vickery thinks they're still in with a shout for this one! 😯 😆
Last I heard, Vickery thinks they're still in with a shout for this one!
😆
"C'mon England!" Bless him.
Actually I thought Phil was quite good today. He tended to cut straight to the point: (about Flood) "You shouldn't criticise other people, you should start by looking at yourself first."
According to MJ post match, this teams best days are ahead of it!
well, well, well what a day for Wales!
thought ireland would have put up a bit more of a fight, i think we scared them in the first 5 minutes 😉 o'driscoll going for touch too much rather then taking the kick he'll have sleepless nights for a while.
i sincerely feel sorry for johnson, contract up in december, thinking of packing it in already,.... half his team didn't even have the right attitude when they left for nz!
think we can do france (fingers crossed), but who will we get in the final.... Hmmmmm
England have the depth of talent to reach the heights of 2003 consistently if only the structure was there.
When will people in charge (of any sport) realise that you absolutely have to properly re-organise your grass-roots structure to do well in the modern sporting world? Time and time again we hear about ground work paying off - British Cycling anyone? Australia?
Quite right about the players attitude tho MB - Johnno really must go - poor results can be excused for various reasons, or at least given second chances, but messing around between games - come on.
So, accepting that rugby is a minority sport in England that is poorly supported by the RFU and the kids would prefer to play football over rugby and therefore not a powerhouse in the rugby world, does this mean we'll not get the "England will win the World Cup" rhetoric next time?
Perhaps you'd better tell the British media that. Is is, after all, them, who choose and have the means to project that tenet, c/f 1966....
At friends for breakfast and to watch the Rugby on a beautiful South African morning 🙂
Go Bokke!!!!!
Good morning sports fans... C'mon Aussie!
Morning from a neutral. 😀
Morning all
😯
Good start from the Wallabies, they're looking really strong at the breakdown aren't they, lots of turnover, that's the benefit of having Pocock back 🙂
Supporting the Aussies today. Looking very composed in defence at minute.
One visit to the Saffa's try line, one try. How many times did the Bokkes get to the Wallabies line and come away with naught? Good defence indeed! 🙂
Need to sort our lineout though, that's going to hurt us if we can't... don't really care how we win today, as long as we do!
Saw the one break by the Aussies early on, looked dangerous.
Referee is having a shocker.
....as are ITV commentary, but then that's par for the course.
Ref is an ARSE.
Referee is Bryce Lawrence. He's (as usual) making the commentators look good...
The momentum has swung now. Australia desperately need to get a grip of this. They're getting outmuscled by the Germans at the minute.
Great drop goal to help overcome the refereeing... Cmon SA!
[s]Wallabies are in headless chicken mode.[/s]
Wallabies are ahead!