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maxray - Member.....if we can beat the scots playing that badly then we can only really get better.
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland. You will not get any better with Johnson in charge trying to play 2003 again.
You need some half backs with a bit of speed, a decent back row and centre who can run You have a half a good team
Trailmonkey. I think you will find, that there are more registered pro rugby union players in England than any other country in the world.
I may well stand corrected as this was explained to me by a welshman, allbeit a very well informed welshman 😀
We'll trip our way(England that is) to the final, which will be against New Zealand, who will choke, and thats it and all about it!!!! 😆 😆 😆
trailmonkey - Member"However, with the resources at their disposal England should be the world's no.1 side"
but that's just nonsense isn't it. considering that rugby union is a game that only really attracts any kind of interest in england from the middle classes of the south then it's amazing that we do as well as we do.
Nope - England have more players than the rest of the world put together I believe - they certainly are the biggest and richest union by a long long way.
2 main issues
1) the structure of the domestic game - too much emphasis on not loosing and
2) the wrong coach coaching the wrong tactics
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland. You will not get any better with Johnson in charge trying to play 2003 again.
And on the evidence of today's game, neither are particularly good. England defended very well against a side that couldn't attack its way out of a wet paper bag. Neither really threatened the oppositions try line.
The 3 teams from the top 10 is starting to lose water now tandem, Pool D is the new group of death. 😈
The arguments not looking too strong at the moment
that's because you're basing your argument solely on blind quantitive data. how many of those players in england are of welsh/irish/scots/other origin ? how many of those clubs and players are purely amateur ? how many of those pre teen players are working class and ever likely to be encouraged to pursue a sporting career.
you haven't come up anything so far that contradicts my claim that rugby in england is almost exclusively a middle class game that bypasses the main talent pool a la tennis.
anyhow, numbers mean little. uruguay have a population the size of wales and have won the football world cup twice. wales on the other hand...........
wales on the other hand...........
That's because the main sport in Wales is rugby, but that's changing now as rugby was the sport of the working class and as there are very few who could be classed as working in Wales..... 😥
DS he wasn't talking about wales wendyball performance..
Sorry - thats how good England are - just a bit better than Scotland
Quite a bit better teej , I know you are smarting like but how many rwc finals have Scotland been in again?
Better to be looking at how Scotland can improve than picking holes in the team that won.
Sorry toys19, I assumed he was talking about Uruguay's 1930 world cup win in football, I assume that's what wendyball is, as opposed to their win in the rugby world.......... 😕
Maxray - Years ago - how about now?
Nothing England have done for several years looks anything but a wee bit better than Scotland and Argentina. Nothing to worry the 3n teams. Consistently a wee bit better but thats all they are - a wee bit better. Look at the points scores the last few calcutta cups?
You attitude is why its ABE! its the arrogance.
This is increasingly looking like Wales year.
The Optimism Gnome is rampant in Wales at the moment
You see I never said that, I just pointed out a couple of facts. if we can beat the scots playing that badly then we can only really get better.
What makes you think England were a. playing badly or b. can play better?
This is increasingly looking like Wales year.The Optimism Gnome is rampant in Wales at the moment
I think Ireland will be too strong for Wales myself when push comes to shove Faletau et al wont cut it against their defence, they'll be bullied bruised and held up in the tackle to turn ball over, I have foreseen it. England could very easily make the semi's but Ireland look better than England. I still wouldnt discount the French, they always have one good game at a world cup. Lets hope its against England.
Bollocks to all this toffs Rugby anyway, Wigan are playing St Helens in the Super League play-offs - much more important. 🙂
Bollocks to all this toffs Rugby anyway, Wigan are playing St Helens in the Super League play-offs - much more important.
Right lads you've got five chances to do something positive, if you can't we'll give the ball to the other team to see if they can do any better. Coolio. 8)
Great result for Tonga today!
As others have said, winning when it matters is all that is important. You can't criticize the team that does this best as they will be the world champions!
[url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/09/2103/rugby-world-cup-daily-player-numbers-around-the-world#allcomments ]On the note of player numbers...[/url]
Right lads you've got five chances to do something positive, if you can't we'll give the ball to the other team to see if they can do any better. Coolio.
Yes it's much better when the game is almost entirely based around kicking and penalties - makes it so much more exciting.
Yes it's much better when the game is almost entirely based around kicking and penalties - makes it so much more exciting.
Agreed, I much prefer multi phase games when people are prepared to run the ball, ruck and mall until the opposition can win it or a try is scored. 😀
Ok teej, how many 5 or 6 nations have Scotland won compare to England?
It's not arrogance, I cheer for the home nations when they are not playing England, in fact my manx routes would pr9baby give me a closer tie to the Celtic nations.
Fact is Scotland were not good enough today, England were better, just enough to edge them out. Baring a real shock tom there will only be 1 of the two teams progressing, youre only as good as your last game 🙂
Ok teej, how many 5 or 6 nations have Scotland won compare to England?It's not arrogance, I cheer for the home nations when they are not playing England, in fact my manx routes would pr9baby give me a closer tie to the Celtic nations.
Fact is Scotland were not good enough today, England were better, just enough to edge them out. Baring a real shock tom there will only be 1 of the two teams progressing, youre only as good as your last game
now read your post back and tell me it isnt ever so slightly stupid.
Err, what bit is stupid? 😯
clutching at straws, all you need to be is a little bit better than the other team and you should win.
whether England play well, play badly, win, lose or draw there will always be armchair haters who will whitter on about what they've done wrong and why they won't make the final and if they do it will be luck or a fluke or something the other team do wrong.
and don't assume that English press/ media opinion is shared by that of the English fans.
England were better, just enough to edge them out.
maxray -Quite a bit better teej ,
So which is it - thae arrogant "England are loads better than Scotland" or the truthful "they are a bit better".
If you really think recent games between Scotland and England show anything but the fact that England are a only a wee bit better than Scotland you are deluded
only a wee bit better than Scotland when they play Scotland
They were a "wee" bit better in that game but are a fair bit better in terms of things won. You are both trotting out arrogant but I am really not, in any part of my life.
Right, stop bickering and let's talk about the games tomorrow.....!
Argentina v Georgia -'should be brutal! Pumas by 20, though
New Zealand v Canada - NZ by 40 or so.
Wales v Fiji -Week! Squeaky bum time! Wales by a single score
Ireland v Italy - a potential banana skin....Should be Ireland, but I'm not willing to totally write off Italia!
Ok captain! 😉 gotta be expecting wins for aeg,nz,Wales and Ireland but yeah out of them all I think the Ireland game has the potential for a shock.
Wales will put 30 past Fiji
Italy will have been targetting Ireland for 18mths or so now, but Ireland will still win
Bonus point win for argies
NZ will just be happy with no more injuries...if Slade looks anything less than 100% real deal against the canucks then the pressure on them is going to be huge
Who said Rugby is a middle class Southern England sport? Nonsense.
Yes, it has a strong presence in the South, especially in the South East, but apart from a band across the M62 and bits of Cumbria playing League, much of the North of England has a rich history of playing Union.
I'm still sulking
how many 5 or 6 nations have Scotland won compare to England
youre only as good as your last game
so England are slightly better than scotland.
Only really interested in one result and I hope it's a 40+ point difference in our favour.
If I have to, wins for Argentina, New Zealand and Ireland.
Look, this is getting silly. England V Scotland is the oldest international match and we invented the game. So lets stop talking about running with the ball etc etc, all these other 'foreign' countries are the ones playing negative rugby.
Encouraging the backs to get involved before getting over the 22, forwards who can run like a winger, these are the things that are against the spirit of the game and should be outlawed.
What we saw this morning was a proper World Cup Final between the best 2 teams at playing proper rugby.
And England won so all is good. 😉
Fiji have seemingly dropped lot of the european stars I have heard to be replaced by people I have no idea about. I just hope Wales dont pick up injuries and gethin can play all game and look the real deal, he looked slightly weak at scrumtime against Samoa.
Quite a bit better teej , I know you are smarting like but how many rwc finals have Scotland been in again?
Er, have you not watched England play since 2003 or something? If you have, I don't know how you can have missed the fact that they've spent good portions of that time playing absolutely terribly. So much so that I as a Welsh supporter felt sorry for them occasionally. They are now capable of the odd good spell of rugby, but are still really unsteady I reckon.
we invented the game
What was the game actually like back in 1286 AD or whenever it was?
Encouraging the backs to get involved before getting over the 22, forwards who can run like a winger, these are the things that are against the spirit of the game and should be outlawed.
What we saw this morning was a proper World Cup Final between the best 2 teams at playing proper rugby.
🙂
[img] 
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I have played on the very pitch where, with a fine disregard for the rules of football as played in his time, William Web Ellis first took the ball in his arms and ran with it.
🙂
Flash, that's an apocryphal story.
This is interesting:
Some of it is familiar, some of it is bizarre...
Look, just a ****ing minute here. Can all posters puh-leeeeesase stop talking up Ireland's chances. Not too worried about O'Flashearty - he's just a plastique anyway. We'll beat the Italians tomorrow, as unimpressively as possible so as to be underdogs in the Wales game. As for England, France'll beat them anyway. As they said about the green machine, you can't keep playing this bad forever.
How many NH sides have looked slick, well drilled and professional so far?
molgrips - MemberHow many NH sides have looked slick, well drilled and professional so far?
Errrmmmmmm
*scratches head*
Heres a thought
If Ashton was scottish would they have beaten both Argentina and England? Is a world class finisher what we need?
Foden, Ashton, Flood and Stevens are the only English players I would have for the Scotland team - and Flood only cos he is better than what we have not that he is great
glitchy bump
Errrmmmmmm*scratches head*
I thought Wales were the best so far.
maybe but slick well drilled and professional?
Anyone got stats of handling errors and mistakes for the tournament so far?
espn scrum .com has loads of stats
Morning all! Some good movement from the Argies, but hardly a walk-over so far...
so England are slightly better than scotland.
Yes, and if in the next 80 minutes of play, England are only slightly better than France, then we'll be in the semis. Where, if we're only slightly better than the opposition, we'll be in the final. You only have to be slightly better to win, though I'm sure most of you myopic haterz would still be going on about this if it had been a 30-point margin.
I seem to remember for all the Welsh heroics (and I was yelling at the TV too), that SA, the current world champions were only slightly better too... In fact, last tournament, the French were only slightly better than the Kiwis. You only have to be slightly better.
Notice the subtle shift in all the English fans...Now thinking they can win it by being "just a little bit better!" How much better do you thing England can get? Not as good as the Welsh or Irish based on the group games. I look forward to the excuses for the rest of the tournament,should be good to see if [s]your[/s] sorry ITV's, commentary team can scoop Dilly's fitness coach cracker yesterday.
On the players numbers debate,I played Premier 1 up here for Dundee.We were the biggest team in about a 40 mile radius.We put out three teams and a vets. I went to play for Streatham Croydon then Scottish in Lundonium, SC had 5 teams and a vets, Scottish 9 teams,vets and youth right up to U21. In Scotland there were about twenty teams in the area,which is the central belt ex Glasgow and Embra.I realise somewhere as heavily populated as London is always going to have a high concentration, but player numbers are what count, what difference does it make if the game is "exclusive?"
Anyway 'mon the neighbours!
Notice the subtle shift in all the English fans...Now thinking they can win it by being "just a little bit better!" How much better do you thing England can get? Not as good as the Welsh or Irish based on the group games. I look forward to the excuses for the rest of the tournament,should be good to see if your sorry ITV's, commentary team can scoop Dilly's fitness coach cracker yesterday.
Shift in thinking or not, if NZ win this one by 100, then lose next week by 1, then the loss is all that matters.
I've been away for 10 days, so what were your 'excuses' for losing to the Argies, then a (by your own inference) poor England team? I hope the flight home's a good one!
I've been away for 10 days, so what were your 'excuses' for losing to the Argies, then a (by your own inference) poor England team? I hope the flight home's a good one!
Actually I have been away,and it was a bus,not a flight.The Argentina game I thankfully didn't see,obviously you didn't either.Still, the hammering you gave them gives you bragging rights. Lots of whining over the citing to deflect from the performance.
It would only involve looking over a couple of pages,so please show me the quote where I have suggested we would beat Argentina,or England? Or my excuses for losing to either.Since you ask; here is my excuse for Scotland...We are not good enough,we can't score tries.
What is yours for England? Either England were/are poor, or Scotland are a better team than anybody gives them credit for.I know which one I lean towards. If it makes you comfy,trot out the same Scotland raising their game against England line.Which would sound like an excuse...
This is too good;
a (by your own inference) poor England team?
Do you think this is a GOOD England team? Honestly?
Here is why I think England are poor; in 2003 England were magic,2007 they were [b]just[/b] at the same level as the SH. 2011 you are not confident of being better than the rest of the NH. That was demonstrated yesterday, for all your bravado,England led for less than a min against the poorest of the Home Nations.And worse than that,turned over ball in scoring situations far too often,failed to convert pressure,in a way the 2003 side would never have done, against both us and Argentina. England also creaked in the scrum,(against a pack that has had pelters) and were fairly predictable behind it.NZ/Saffers would have been 20 points up at half time,even without Carter.That is why I think England are a poor side this time round.Feel free to refute the above argument.I am interested in how you think England can improve.
Carter; deserves to play in a WC final, shame.
Morning all. Have I missed anything?
And they're off. 😀
That is why I think England are a poor side this time round.Feel free to refute the above argument.I am interested in how you think England can improve.
I think you'll find I've never said England are a great side in this tournament - their performances have been far from it. I was interested how the haterz were happily slagging off England, whilst missing the most cogent point: that it was actually Scotland who lost. However, the advantage of being crap is it's easier to get better than if you're already good. I don't think anyone could argue against the fact that the current England side does have some great [u]potential[/u], if they used their heads and played like a team, using said potential. From where England are to where they need to be to progress far, there is much room for improvement. Cutting out the indiscipline would be a major factor, and as they're generally unforced errors, something that could (but probably won't) improve.
Anyway, I'll leave you to your childish sulking and watch what looks like it could be a great performance from Wales. C'mon Cymru!
😀 But looking very untidy in the build up. As proud as I was with the S.A. loss, I think I'll take an ugly win today. 😆
However, the advantage of being crap is it's easier to get better than if you're already good. I don't think anyone could argue against the fact that the current England side does have some great potential, if they used their heads and played like a team, using said potential. From where England are to where they need to be to progress far, there is much room for improvement. Cutting out the indiscipline would be a major factor, and as they're generally unforced errors, something that could (but probably won't) improve
]
Have you been drinking? Because that is rather contradictory.
Ah, right; so anybody who does not rate England is guilty of being "haterz" or "childish sulking" OK, that makes it much easier to understand your posts,as you were.
Ah, right; so anybody who does not rate England is guilty of being "haterz" or "childish sulking" OK, that makes it much easier to understand your posts,as you were.
Are you not used to that? It's not worth rising to. It's generally followed by lots of confusion between the tems england and Great Britain.
Anyway; Wales looking good(as robinson throws into touch)
😆
[Devil's advocate] Cheating forward pass [/Devil's advocate]
😉
Have you been drinking? Because that is rather contradictory.
How is it contradictory? A team playing below their potential has much more chance of improving, than one playing above its potential. That's a concept even you should be able to grasp.
🙂
Let's keep this up for the second half. 😆
Let's keep this up for the second half.
+1
Great so far, given the age of the team, this could be the next great Wales team for some time
Obstruction? 😐
😆
59 unanswered points, fair play.
Wow... superb work indeed!
Feel sorry for Gavin, mind 🙁
Now, come on Italy! 😉
Loved that 😀 excellent performance, now to take out the angry dogs.
AWESOME. What can you say? Excellent game for Wales and a big message, almost point for point with S.A. Top defending, no real errors and a fair spread of try scoring. Shame that Jenkins can't chip and run.
😆
How many NH sides have looked slick, well drilled and professional so far?
2 Wales and Ireland, also would add Scotland who looked very well drilled in a ultra conservative sort of way. England however look like they are not sure what they are trying to do, dominate up front and play for territory one min then headless running the next. Lots of cheep shots from them too, I wonder who their coach is?
Anyway nice to hear that idiot Armitage has been cited, dirty ****.
Good thing the ref wasn't too concerned with forward passes thoughh!
Shame that Jenkins can't chip and run.
just have to hope he's not too badly injured, same with Bennett as Burns is shite (although to be fair he improved on his dire display against Namibia today).
Ireland will beat Wales by disrupting the welsh lineout.
can anyone tell me if I want Ireland or Italy to win next, given Aus injuries woe's it might be better to play them in the 1/4's
Good thing the ref wasn't too concerned with forward passes thoughh!
yeah I thought he was shit
Slick from Wales,over to Ireland.
zokesI've been away for 10 days, so what were your 'excuses' for losing to the Argies, then a (by your own inference) poor England team? I hope the flight home's a good one!
No excuses. simply not good enough
There are reasons and I think most of it must be laid at the coaches door. Scotland played well below their potential even tho Robinson had everything he wanted pretty much in terms of preparation.
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-popular/2011/10/02/england-rugby-players-in-more-hot-water-after-hotel-worker-claims-she-was-victim-of-crude-sexual-banter-115875-23460369/ ]how to win friends[/url]
Armitage cited?
Anyway nice to hear that Armitage has been cited
It is, it means Cueto gets a game. One of those 'improvements' that England can't make, apparently....
And just for A_A:
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8515002.stm ]Let's just remember how saintly the Welsh are...[/url]
Armitage despite being a dirty **** is a very good player, one of the few in the England squad who attack space.