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I get a feeling Wales will be announced quite late, I think Warren G has gone home, his Dad died?
Fair play if he comes back for the weekend but I wouldn't blame him for having some family time.
I can't think Carling giving our players lessons on "Whats it means to be English" is going to help much. In fact I can't believe the RFU are agreeing to pay for it. IMO if the players don't already know that, they shouldn't be there.
Kryton; the rehabilitation has begun! The Times had a piece on him the morning which didn't resemble the Will Carling we all loved so much. Personally I wanted justice; is having sexy time with the then future queen not an act of treason? Likewise; has anybody ever seen him and Fatima Whitbread in the same room?
Personally I wanted justice; is having sexy time with the then future queen not an act of treason?
Did you see her as your future queen?
We all thought it was his reward for being such an excellent servant to the nation.
Anyway I agree with Kryton, mind you we have a lot of boys who don't have typical English accents.
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Like Farrell... 🤣🤣
Hastings junior has been pretty good this year. I guess we will find out how good this weekend.
Yeah but who will be the bench 10?
Will be nice to see Kinghorn and Hastings startva big game. Hope both teams go for the strongest selection possible.
1 wing birth is in question for Wales as is 6. Ellis Jenkins in broken, no Navidi, no Moriarty as he plays 8, no Shingler. Theres talk in the camp of Cory Hill playing 6 as they want a lock to cover backrow in the world cup squad. If not it'll be Wainwright or Lydiate.
Mike Brown is dropped! Finally!!
Mike Brown is dropped!
Shame it didnt happen that time he tried to square up to Sam Warburton!
Who is at 15 then Daly?
Think so. Morgan also on his way back from Portugal so Mercer looks to be strting at 8
So whats happening here? Jones going with pace over weight, skills over experience? Are we to run the Boks around in the thick cold air of the southern England plain of Twickenham before they are acclimatised?
Mike Brown has been released back to Quins...thank f*ck for that! Guess that Daly will start at 15 then.
Morgan has also been sent home so I guess Mercer will get his shot.
The Carling appointment seems a bit daft / odd - so they really need to pay an ex player to tell the team how important it is playing for England? Which is basically what his role sounds like when Jones said because he’s not English he can’t emphasise the importantance of the jersey...no wonder were the laughing stock of world rugby.
International try of year nominees
Retallic one for me followed by the Scottish try.
Backup ten for Scotland will be Peter Horne I guess. He is about the only choice bar Kinghorn and I don't think Kinghorn hasplayed a senior game at 10
Peter Horne is a decent player but no international star but he has stepped up at 10 a few times and done well at times and been mince on others.
Kinghorn played 10 at age grade.
Retallik maybe just for the outrageous dummy but even biased as I am that Scotland try is a thing of pure beauty. Just pace and vision leaving England floundering. They had no answer to it.
Seems a bit short sighted to only have 2 proper 10's surely they'd want 3 for worldcup squad?
What sort of team you expecting? Welsh one pretty much picks itself. Anscombe is last man standing so plays 10, one wing spot of for grabs and 6 is an issue with Moriarty at 8 and everyone else injured.
Hopefully home adv will see us home but it could be a good game if both teams click.
For this game we only have Hastings. there simply is not another 10 available. When we get our players from outside scotland for the squad Russell is the first choice, Hastings is his backup, Weir might just get a squad place but even given his recent recovery in form he is a good staap down from those two. P Horne is a decent utility back but prone to brainfarts thos he has also had decent games at 10 for scotland and Glasgow interspered with steaming piles of mince
Laidlaw can easily be 3rd choice 10 giving us an extra squad place for someone else Remeber he has a lot of experience at 10
so for the full squad I would expect G Horne, Price, laidlaw, Russell and Hastings for the halfbacks
Team for this weekend I expect something like:
Dell
McInally
Nel
Gray
Gilchrist ( but I'd rather any other scottish lock)
Ritchie
Watson
Wilson
G. Horne / Price
Hastings
Seymour
Dunbar
Jones H
Graham /Jones L
Kinghorn
Thats a powerful front five, a fast back row and a set of backs to make pretty patterns. Its not a team to go toe to toe but a team to run the opposition ragged
I'd quite like to play the entire midget backs. We could put out a set of backs none of which are over 5'9"
I think that will be the team TJ. Nel is back to his nuggety best, isn’t he? For the Engerlanders, that’s a surprisingly good set of backs you have to choose from, but really shite pack: isn’t it meant to be the other way about for you lot?
Nellie the scrumphant? Yup - pretty much back to his best
Its so nice not to have an underpowered pack like we had for so many years
that’s a surprisingly good set of backs you have to choose from, but really shite pack: isn’t it meant to be the other way about for you lot
I am pretty sure the last time we did this the forwards just crash balled into obscurity and the backs got zero ball.
Duckman; the pack we’ve chosen is pretty light weight and very green (expected given the injuries to an extent). It could have been less green if he’d retained Morgan, who has been in good form this season and always seems to do well for us at international level. Still find it nuts that some of the Exeter back row haven’t been picked especially when we need som lumps to carry the ball. SA are doing Ok at the mo too so I doubt they’ll be too worried and if they go back to their usual strengths, our pack will get munched and those good backs won’t see much ball at all.
I agree,against the saffers I would think morgan itoje and that mad bugger from Newcastle would suit the game lack of fetcher or not. Instead it is suggested Shields will play 8. SA looked great against the lighter all blacks by matching their tempo and forcing collisions. Normally my money would be on England, not sure about this week.
Do SA have their English based players available. DeClerk and that Wasps 15vwill be big losses.
Thats a good point, the prem teams have not released the Welsh boys have they?
Or the scots
Gethin bows out on Sunday for the Blues. 129 caps for Wales plus 5 as a Lion. Legend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46042857
Gethin Jenkins to play one last game for Cardiff this weekend before retiring. Greatest Welsh forward ever I reckon. A true legend being given a proper send off is great to see.
Or the scots
Nope, well anyway it is to Englands advantage not to be playing against DeKlerk. He is demon.
Is that one of those Gray brothers? I’ve heard they’re the best ; )
😂😂
Adam Hastings has a neck like Luke Charteris!
Teams out
15. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 5 caps
14. Tommy Seymour VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 28 caps
11. Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
10. Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
1. Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 13 caps
2. Stuart McInally CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
4. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 12 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 2 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 20 caps
8. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 37 caps
Substitutes
16. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps
17. Alex Allan (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
20. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
22. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps
23. Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – uncapped
Jenkins was a great servant to Welsh rugby and in many ways ahead of his time in being athletic for a prop and doing more than waddling between set pieces. 134 international caps is a hell of a record.
AA, that's the wrong picture.
Nice to see Ali Price picked...no one show him this link!!
Although Western Mail suggesting Davies will be rested.
15 LEIGH HALFPENNY
14 GEORGE NORTH
13 JONATHAN DAVIES
12 OWEN WATKIN
11 LUKE MORGAN
10 GARETH ANSCOMBE
9 ALED DAVIES
1 ROB EVANS
2 ELLIOT DEE
3 DILLON LEWIS
4 JAKE BALL
5 ALUN WYN JONES
6 DAN LYDIATE
7 JUSTIN TIPURIC
8 ROSS MORIARTY
Has Gatland asked the Western Mail to pick the team then, because he’s still in NZ?
Often they're, guesses are based on what they have seen in training and they do have phones in most of NZ these days!
Well, its our team announcement day. Rumours are all about the midfield being Ford, Farrell and Slade with Tuilagi kept to be warmed up again Japan before facing Aus & the AB’s.
Makes sense to me, no point being hammered by the Boks and unavailable later. I’m nervous do Slade though, for me he’s never quite international standard.
Pretty sure the back three will be Daly, Splashton & May.
Slade was vaunted as the great white hope a couple of years ago wasn't he? Lets hope he can pull it together.
I feel more concerned about Ashton, he has always been a bit of a defensive hole. I wish we had some other wingers that had come through by now.
Daly, Splashton & May
Both Wings are poor "footballers" its going to mean Daly will have to cover a lot of ground and be positioned well, Wales get away with it as we have 1/2p at the back but is Daly an experienced enough 15...will be a challenge for him. Last thing you want is to see Ashton and May turned to collect deep kicks into space and clearing.
its a miracle 1/2p is still allowed on a pitch to tackle. His head must be as noodley as a puppet on a string by now. Yes he doesnt miss tackles, but he's going to sacrifice his long term health doing it.
I’ve read that there are doubts that Ashton will be retained and Farrell is supposedly likely to start at FH with Te’o and Slade outside him. Manu is most likely to be a sub along with Ford.
Slade doesn’t quite seem to have recaptured the form he had before he was injured plus he needs to be at 13 really where he plays week in week out for Exeter (the FH thing seems to have died a death).
Ashton's a decent enough footballer. Was playing 15 when over in France and can catch.
Won't need as much babysitting as halfpee's had to do for Wales.
He did indeed have a good stint across the channel and scored a shedload of tries and did well at full back. Just not sure that I trust his defence; Brown was past his sell by date but he was solid in that respect. Ashton couldn’t defend on the wing.
I’d be surprised if Jones started both Ashton and May who are both finishers and he seems to like a busy, work rate winger as well.
We’ll see shortly though; Jones seems a bit muddled at the mo so god knows what our game plan will be!
Farrell is supposedly likely to start at FH with Te’o and Slade outside him. Manu is most likely to be a sub along with Ford.
Actually that makes sense - Ford then doesn't have to ride the first 60 mins of Bok's coming at him, and Manu's there for an impact finisher.
Hmm!
Gethin Jenkins one of the very best, staying with the Blues as a coach, Diolch bach.
No place for Ashton in the 23.
UShields starts in the back row alongside Wilson and Curry. God knows what Shields has done for a start.
Faz at 10 with T’eo and Slade outside him.
Sinkler starts, I assume for his ball carrying rather than his scrummaging ability.
Kruis and Itoje as the locks.
Interesting:
England: Elliot Daly; Jack Nowell, Henry Slade, Ben Te'o, Jonny May; Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Alec Hepburn, Dylan Hartley, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Brad Shields, Tom Curry, Mark Wilson.
Replacements:Jamie George, Ben Moon, Harry Williams, Charlie Ewels, Zach Mercer, Danny Care, George Ford, Manu Tuilagi.
Wilson at 8? I'm not sad about Ashton but kind of think he'd make a good attacking finisher and inject some pace in the last 20. Yeah Shields, he carry's well but has been awful in defence lately.
Really don't know what to make of that team atm :S
Really don’t know what to make of that team
Second String pack with a sprinkling of experience and a decent back line?
If Farrell, Ford, Nowell, May, Tuilagi, Teo and daly make it to the RWC its not a bad set of options, plus then you've a few decent players coming through the centres. Watson may make a return, Ashton could be on the bench. Its certainly more threatening than we've had for a little while - if they can play.
Lawes and Kruis make sense, club combo. Wilson deserves his call up, but he’s not a like for like replacement for Billy, Curry is a better seven then Robshaw but Shields has done sweet FA to justify a call up. The front row is what it is given injuries etc; Cole has been good this season and may well be missed because he’s a far better scrummager than Sinckler and he’s contributed far more for Tigers.
The backs don’t look too bad but T’eo had played sweet FA (less than 30 mins this season for Wuss, so he’s got bags of form......). Slade has been prett good this season but I think this is make or break for him at international level. If he’s shit this autumn I think it’s the last we’ll see of him for a bit.
Theres got to be a better scrum half than Youngs in England. He’s been shit for the Tigers and is bringing zero form with him. The rest of the backs make sense and hopefully Daly will go better at FB than he did in the summer.
When we get munched in the set piece I can’t see the replacements changing the tide.
It is probably the best team we have given all the injuries, suspensions etc.
However, I am pessimistic. Glad in a way about Gashton too, but agree he could have been on the bench, however, that would mean dropping one of Ford, Tui or Care and I think they all have bigger claims. If a wing is injured then what would happen, Tui in the centre and Teo or Slade on wing?
If a wing is injured then what would happen, Tui in the centre and Teo or Slade on wing?
My my guess is that Manu may go to the wing as he’s been used there in the past.
England fans happy with this? Perplexed? concerned?
I don't know all the players but it looks like a team picked for a bosher at 12 to hopefully get over the gainline and a fast backrow to ruck for quick ball in attack and to slow the oppositions. Sound about right? Is this a change of style for EJ? Has he learnt part of the lesson from last years calcutta cup? 😉
England fans happy with this?
I don't think Eddies picked a team to complain about given the injuries, but I don't think we will win.
Is this a change of style for EJ?
He said himself this was needed, after many people has said that his original tactics had been worked out / done to death. I do think he's taken the view that the best form of defence is attack, and he does need to speed the Team up for the AB's game, plus get them guessing as to our style on the day.
Ta
Sorry we broke the Vunipolas. They would have strengthened England I believe
<b>Wales: </b>L Halfpenny; G North, J Davies, H Parkes, L Morgan; G Anscombe, G Davies; N Smith, K Owens, D Lewis, C Hill, A Wyn Jones, D Lydiate, J Tipuric, R Moriarty.
<i>Replacements:</i> E Dee, R Evans, L Brown, A Beard, A Wainwright, T Williams, J Evans, S Evans.
Looking forward to see how Morgan gets on as well as N Smith and Dillon Lewis. Lydiate is a bit of a weak link these days but injuries make it the best option. Surprised Jake Ball isnt starting or on bench.
Form or not, Teo’s Magic arm guard makes him world class. A shoe-in for any side in the world.
Youngs has been dreadful for years. Is English rugby that devoid of a decent SH?
Magic arm guard or not, he'd have to be better than world class to get in that Wales team.
Seven test Lions.
And Cory Hill.
Te'o just hasn't played, Shields done nothing to justify place in my opinion and Youngs has gone off the boil for a while, even though he CAN produce magic on occasion its whether he WILL that concerns me. Care has always been the quicker 9, to the breakdown and distribution IMHO.
As a Chiefs fan so I'm biased, but I hope Slade can show why he should be there at 13, I think Nowell offers a lot more than 'just' gas a winger and I cannot fathom why big Don doesn't get a look in. Baffling.
Nowell is a cracking player, much better than Ashton.
And Cory Hill
Thats Cory British and Irish Lion Hill to you!!
Youngs is there for the box kick. That is all.
Youngs is there for the box kick. That is all.
Which is used far too often due to his lack of speed at the breakdown.
All up, as an Englishman, I don't think that 23 is too bad considering the state of the injuries to the usual first picks. I'm perplexed by Te'O as a starter though given his <30 mins game time since last injury. Back line is exciting I reckon with a lot of talent to come back in over the next few months. The pack will suffer though and I agree that given the circumstances and his form for Tigers, Cole should have been in the squad, and as a Tigers fan, come in Box Kick Ben, your time is up! You just can't win at Premiership and certainly at international level by kicking the bloody ball away as much as he does, needs to find some form again.
Not sure if I’m happy or not about our team. I’m pleased that we’re trying to move on from Robshaw and Brown (even if it is a few years too late) and Jones’ hand has been forced by injuries to an extent in the pack. I just hope he has a game plan to suit his players unlike in the past where he’s tried to play his previously successful bosh game without his boshers.
12 and 9 don’t ever seem to get resolved. There’s got to be a better English 9 in the premiership than Youngs. He was dire the other week against the Scarlets. Our loosehead choices are driven by injury and retirement but it seems odd to ditch Cole’s experience when he’s actually playing well this season. He’s scrummed we’ll but has also shown up well at the breakdown and even carried.
I don’t think we’ll win against a Bok side getting their form back. The AB’s will tear us a new one. Might scrape past the Aussies and think we’ll beat Japan but probably fail to convince. Two from four is my prediction with at least one mauling in there.
Have you seen the saffer centres? mwahaha...
The South African pack looks pretty good; experienced with a lot of power. Hmmmmmm.
Also, just because Brown has been sent home this weekend does not mean he will not be back some time this autumn.
Coles a penalty magnet though, and doesn't carry as much as Sinckler.
Coles a penalty magnet though, and doesn’t carry as much as Sinckler.
Hes been genuinely very good for Leicester this season. He’s scrummed really well (did well against the Scarlets) and has carried pretty well too this season as well as being more involved at the breakdown. Sinkler carries well but is a shit scrummager and I think will get found out against an experienced Bok front row.
I’ve been very critical of Cole in recent times for his brain farts and needless penalties buts he’s upped his game this season since a young prop has come through the ranks for Tigers (I.e. he’s not playing the full 80 week in week out).
Also, just because Brown has been sent home this weekend does not mean he will not be back some time this autumn.
If Daly has another howler, I imagine Brown will reappear pretty sharpish.
#neverforget
TBH I'm starting to think Jones has totally lost the plot.
He's been completely inconsistent in his selection policies. There's no discernable, coherent direction in which he seems to be taking the team.
Although I should be pleased to see Brown getting dropped it's actually somewhat baffling as he was probably our best player against SA.
The pack looks week. Especially the back row.
We might beat the weakened Boks but the All Blacks........?
England pack was always going to look pretty weak given the injuries.....Wilson at 8 is bizarre though. Surely him at 6 Curry 7 and Mercer 8 would be better? Shields hasn't looked great from what I've seen since his move here.
The established 9's of Young and Care are both in poor form, Youngs' current poor stretch running back for quite a while!
Te'o at 12.....don't like the bloke and don't overly rate him as a player even when fully fit... certainly not in his current state!
Jones has totally lost the plot for me, such bizarre/inconsistent selections......what's the crack with Hartley now? He's back starting as 'co captain' alongside Farrell....why the demotion from 'captain'? George has quite clearly been the best NH hooker for the past 2 years, so why have Hartley starting? No Cipriani, he says on current form he's not in, yet Te'o and Ashton were in the squad and Te'o starts, with barely more first team rugby played than me this season!!
Just seen the 'weakened' Ireland squad sent to the US....I'd fancy that team to beat us by at least 15 home and away.... against SA this weekend....I'm very pessimistic....them missing Faf De Klerk is a bonus for us, struggling to see us beating them. Japan we'll win by 25, NZ....god knows....even if it's close they'll win, but it has the potential to be a bloodbath. If we go in to the Australian game 1 from 3 I could see us losing that too!
Biggest plus though, the monumental bell end that is James Haskell seems to have been well and truly dropped for good.
Just seen the ‘weakened’ Ireland squad sent to the US
Which is:
15. Jordan Larmour (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 6
14. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 7
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 14
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 9
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 11
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">10. Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 12</span>
9. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 6
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 50
2. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 9
3. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 8
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster) 2
5. Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 6
6. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 19 captain
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 10
8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 9
Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 62
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 22
18. Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 7
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 60
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 23
21. John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 2
22. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) *
23. Will Addison (Enniskillen/Ulster) *
I mean, you know where Quinn Roux is from just from reading his name. 🙂 Surprise selection though. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on, as it will Luke McGrath. Ireland have strong competition for most places on the field, and Carbery looks like he'll be the future and a solid replacement if the French try to beat Johnny up again. The over-dependency on Murray is a worry sometimes, so it's nice to see other SHs getting a chance.
George has quite clearly been the best NH hooker for the past 2 years,
Guirado?
As a Scot with the certainty we are getting pumped tomorrow, thus having to put up with AA’s pish till the 6n...I actually feel quite sorry for the England supporters on here. Even if you beat the Saffers who are short of 4 first choices, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that your coach is a fud. That’s fud...not dud, although that also applies.