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The import players is a tough one. People are more mobile these days so guys often up sticks and move around especially those who have parents in the forces. The chaos who have spent most of twice formative years in another country and end up representing them I have I have no issues with. The like of Hughes I do have an issue with because he’s admitted it’s about money (I know it’s to provide for family but it’s still a bit stinky).
The stats tweeted really don’t tell the full story especially for UK teams because it’s so easy to move between the countries.
Anyways... Jack Nowell is busted so we only have two genuine wingers in the players retained by EJ. Big ask for Joe on his second cap.
How many generations are we going back? Although I dislike the mercenary players we need to understand people move for work.
So how may indigenous Argentine players are there? (As in not a Spanish import)? Or is that why he carefully noted "not born in" the country they play for?
Even within a subset you have different levels of mercenaryness. Anscombe was poached and bought in to play for Wales. Parkes got a contract for Scarlets moved over and has seen out 3 years, he didnt come with the idea of playing for Wales. Despite that I do think the 3 year rule is bullshit.
I would have residence 3 years if you move under 16, 4 years if you move 16 - 18 and 5 years after that, I also think one granny is not enough
Strauss - I forgot he moved south again - doh!
From a cycling perspective, Froome is a bad/good example. A British parent, but doesn’t seem to have any affinity with Britain, has never spent any time here, and most telling of all, didn’t understand why Geraint Thomas didn’t like being described as English. Perhaps that last bit is the real test. 😂
I would like imports to make the country they play for their home and to take out citizenship. But then we would have never had Visser. He is a proud Dutchman. He n ever covered himself in the flag nor made any pretence that it was anything but a chance to play tier one rugby. He tried for England first IIRC
Its often hard to see the commitment to the country until their playing career is over. - for example Sean Lineen ( irish name?) stayed in Scotland after his playing career and still works in Scottish rugby. The Leslie brothers? Dad was an all black, went home to NZ as soon as they stopped playing. To me thats not right.
~Then you get the complex ones like Denton. According to him his mother always brought him up to think of himself as part scots, came to scotland immediately he finished school, played for the scots clubs, played for scotland but then moved south for more money / because he was surplus to requirements for the clubs.
The problem is, where does having morals get you in pro sport? Not far. I actually admire Scotland in a way for casting a wider net in recent years and finally getting a bit more streetwise in selection and they are better for it. Got to play to the rules so it's down to the law makers.
It would be tempting to change the rules to do everything to eliminate Project Players but where would the fun be without the English side flailing around backing the wrong horses? 😀
I agree ^^
The rules should be changed (stricter) but in the meantime, play the rules.
It’s never going to be an easy one to resolve and keep everyone’s happy. The tier two teams have benefited from the residency rules given the supplier base etc.
Even parents isn’t clear; look at Shields he has English parents but has hardly ever been to the country and is very much a Kiwi. Maybe it should take account of education and formative years; Manu for example is not English but was educated here from a young age and played his formative years here. It’s basically a big old mess!
So, Jamie George retains the the starting position with Hartley on the bench; let’s hope he has a good game. At least Lawes is at lock with Shields returning to the back row.
England starting XV: 15. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 24 caps), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 1 cap), 13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 16 caps), 12. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 15 caps), 11. Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 39 caps), 10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 64 caps) co-captain, 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 79 caps), 1. Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps), 2. Jamie George (Saracens, 31 caps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 16 caps), 4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 25 caps), 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 67 caps), 6. Brad Shields (Wasps, 4 caps), 7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 8. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 7 caps).
Finishers: 16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 96 caps) co-captain, 17. Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps), 18. Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps), 19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 9 caps), 20. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 17 caps), 21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 32 caps), 22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps), 23. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps).
Noice.
Glad they have stuck with Anscombe, yet to be convinced re Beard. I'd have started with Evans at 1.
miffed/pleased equal measure J Adams in again. Going to miss him tomorrow night - taking the boy to Sixways to watch Wuss v Quins. Still a good starting line up for Wuss with Ted Hill back, and a full strength backs and pack except for Adams.
yet to be convinced re Beard
Especially considering how well Ball has been playing recently.
It looks like Gatland has stuck with giving some of the more fringe players (if that is the right word) a full run even with more established performers coming back. I think it shows a commitment to the building of depth rather than give them the odd game, ticking that box and then going to the same old thing.
I may have it wrong but I was sure Rob Evans is a bit lacking game time so might explain why is taking the shorter stint. Ball is unlucky to miss out for sure unless he isn't fit (can't see anything that suggests that). Perhaps the master plan is to see how Beard stands up to an immensely physical team since it is his (perceived?) weakness. I would have liked to see Patchell on the bench rather than Biggar but I guess there's an argument for having a backup plan if the place kicking and general control isn't going to plan.
Overall don't mind that team and it is an encouraging direction they are headed
I've always thought rugby would really benefit from a Birther Movement.
Pocock withdraws from tomorrow’s match because of his neck.
How long until Manu joins him?
where is the Eng/Aus game being shown other than f%&*ing Sky?
Beale & A A-C banned for breaching team rules too. Not a happy camp at the moment. Such a shame the problems Aus RU is going through. I’ve always loved their style of play, but you could easily see Australia drift off to mediocrity without change at home.
Beale & A A-C banned for breaching team rules too
Yup just seen that - for taking guests to their hotel rooms. Given that one of the ladies involved was A A-C's sister in law I don't think they were up to too much.
Still don't trust them not to spring a surprise on us though.
Swansea had a grand night.
He typed while trying to ignore the Ospreys result.....
With a bit of luck, England will put Aus to the sword tomorrow.
Would do us well for confidence going into the 6n
Glad to see the back of Robbo in the commentary booth, I don’t get the love for him, just bellows, gets confused, doesn’t keep up with play just awful.
i feel I am swimming against the tide with this one.
IF, (big if!) we beat Aus today, 3 wins from 4 , and only losing to NZ by 1 pt will be an amazing result for this summer, far exceeding most expectations.
How many wins by SH over home nations so far? 2 out of 6? That’s a great autumn for all really. Could easily be 2/9 by the end if today.
It would be a massive shock if England didn't win today IMO
Lydiate a doubt for today. It looked like his days were numbered but he's been in decent form and will be a loss if he doesn't play
Aus team weakened by a few key players out isn’t it? England should have a chance?
England missing loads too! vunipola x2, Watson, Joseph, Robshaw, Curry, Nowell, Launchbury, Kruis.
Aus team weakened by a few key players out isn’t it? England should have a chance?
Weak Australian team gets weaker? If they don't thump them it's a bad result.
Lydiate a doubt for today. It looked like his days were numbered but he’s been in decent form and will be a loss if he doesn’t play
Yeah that will be a loss against the big SA pack. He has done well thus far. Wainwright to bench Ellis to start changes the balance a lot. 2 out and out 7's in starting 15 puts more pressure on tight 5.
England missing loads too! vunipola x2, Watson, Joseph, Robshaw, Curry, Nowell, Launchbury..
If only they had a massive player base and loads of money available to develop those players.. 😁
and poach them, Billy and Mako are as Welsh as bara brith
Isn’t poached vunipola a traditional Welsh dish? 😁
Glad to see the back of Robbo in the commentary booth, I don’t get the love for him, just bellows, gets confused,
😁 you should wander over to the gwlad forum and look up the Ian ****ing Robertson thread, its a rant of epic genius that has been preserved through numerous forum "upgrades".
Anyone else think that the Scotland v Argentina game will be the best of the day?
Is Gwlad still going, used to be fantastic, still have my 32 - 31 t shirt.
Anyone else think that the Scotland v Argentina game will be the best of the day?
Could be. With Russell, Hastings, Jones and Hogg on the pitch almost anything could happen. Italy will be put to the sword by NZ and Wales / SA and England / Aus could be dull slugfests.
Two fairly evenly matched teams both of which like to attack. It will not be dull thats for sure - either a narrow Argentina win or Scotland will cuff them. I have no idea which but there will be plenty of tries.
Anyone else think that the Scotland v Argentina game will be the best of the day?
Could be. With Russell, Hastings, Jones and Hogg on the pitch almost anything could happen
I’m about to settle down to watch this match, but don’t know what to expect. Is this going to be an even more high risk/high reward strategy by Scotland. They’re playing at home against a team two places below them in the World rankings, is the thought that they should be able to get the upper hand and do to Argentina what they did to Fiji? If so, there must be a risk of it backfiring.
Its a bit more experimenting pre WC to some extent
Townsend seems to like the idea of a Russell / Hastings 10/12 combo. I am pretty unsure about the idea myself but we do have an issue at 12 anyway with too many of our centres broken. I think they will alternate who is at first receiver and use each other as decoys.
High risk / high reward will be the order of the day tho - with the coach and players we have there is really no other way. I agree it could go either way and this Argentina team or no pushovers
High risk / high reward will be the order of the day tho
Well I shall sit back and enjoy it then. However, I do feel that whilst you can win games with a high risk/high reward strategy, you can’t win tournaments.
interesting stat of the day:
Coming into this weekend Scotland had scored 39 tries in 2018 - New Zealand with 69 are the only Tier 1 nation to have scored more.
from the bbc
It looks like Hastings has won the bitchfight for the jumper with 10 on the back. I suspect however that they will alternate.
Expect some trick plays, some sublime passes and some utter idiocy.
Gauss - I think all Scots fans are hoping that a bit more pragmatism can be found from somewhere but do not expect the " Exit strategy" if the ball is kicked deep. It seems Townsend considers kicking deep if you receive deep to be a waste of possession. the "anti Gatland" 😉
We generally do with Scotland these days 😬
interesting stat of the day:
Yes, of course.
Started chucking it down in Edinburgh which might rather spoil the fun.
Normal weather for Scotchlandshire
Coming into this weekend Scotland had scored 39 tries in 2018 – New Zealand with 69 are the only Tier 1 nation to have scored more.
Still lost to Wales and South Africa, but yeah, stats.
does anyone know where i can watch the eng vs aus game?
got a vpn...
fanks
Sky
Turn off the audio though to save your sanity!
Just listening to them praising England's defense completely oblivious to them missing 23, 46 and 33 tackles so far this November is one-eyed enough to press mute for the rest of the afternoon
don't have sky.
anywhere i can stream it? what countries are showing it live on terrestrial tv?
cricfree is usually the best it gets with Sky
Highbtackles like that were pinged everytime in the nin international games, why cant these useless pricks spot them?
Scot winger on Argentina player
Interesting if not exciting game, with the advantage you can go and make a cup of tea in the time it takes Laidlaw to pick up and kick the ball.
So a late smack on the chin is just a pen, stupid ****s, I'm closevto being done with rugby tbh.
cheers dan!
So a late smack on the chin is just a pen, stupid ****, I’m closevto being done with rugby tbh
Scotland getting the rub of the decisions so far. Lucky to not be well behind.
Scotland very lucky here.
That looked yellow to me.
Looked yellow to most of us.
Its not really going to plan.
Laidlaw is quick with the ball when needed. When not ie a box kick or slow ball he does like to take his time.
Another crap piece of referee work for the Ozzie (non) try. Touchie and ref right in line, clearly watching the pass and then have to go back to tmo. Losing a lot of respect for these officials, making a farce of things.
Farrell can't tackle.
How in the name of all that is holy is that not a pen try for no arms? They refs are ****ing bent surely???
How is that not a penalty try and yellow for Farrell? Ref said something about Aus player dropping shoulder?
Great start by England, followed up by letting them right back into it again.
Absolute referring bellendery to say yet another no arm Farrell tackle was the ball carrier's fault. Australia are walking and not even facing the right direction half the time but the officials and England brain farts aren't half keeping them in the game
England are shit. Daly should not be at FB and Farrel was lucky the Australian dipped his shoulder.
Farrel must be close to an international Red card, i hope Jones is warning him.
Itd pay for England to remember there are some world class players in that Aus side.
Farrell with a no-arms charge to stop a try? That’s so unlike him.
i hope Jones is warning him.
Jones is probably working out how to bring Johnny Sexton into his answer when asked about it later.
Farrel was lucky the Australian dipped his shoulder
Could you explain how that makes any difference?
When one eyed Dawson says Farrell was lucky not to get a yellow you know it was a nailed on 10 minutes.
He is a liability
Could you explain how that makes any difference?
Well ask the ref, he said they both did so cancelled each other out.
Maybe the refs aren’t allowed to check tmo for things they don’t see live.
Only way I can fathom the crap decisions lately
God! Bet we will be hearing about that Farrell incident all week in the English press.
The Aus disallowed try pees me off too. A try should stand having been given and not be put on hold after stadium replays.
Could you explain how that makes any difference?
Because the ref decided two wrongs dont make a right. Fwiw I'm with the majority i suspect, Farrel should be off
What is the second wrong (real answer according to the laws not the referees imagination)?
Does that count as a pragmatic victory for Scotland? fine defensive effort, few brainfarts
I thin we can say the Hastings / Russell experiment did not work. Looked better with Dunbar on.
NOt a great game tho. Blunt attack v stonewall defense.