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Very tight he’s played offside by the ruck moving forwards he clearly was not always offside.
He moved forward from an offside position it isnt really very tight, had a try not been scored he might have got away with it.
Its Jones, Alan Wyn
Where to start? The absent apostrophe, or the errant a?
It's Jones, Alun Wyn.
#AlunWynJonesIsWatchingYouGetItWrong
Not taking the points on offer and a piss poor line out cost us the game. Our intensity went off the boil just before half time when we should have upped it a bit more.
Daly isn’t best used at full back, whilst he was better today, it just doesn’t seem to suit him in terms of making an impact. Ashton actually had a pretty good game.
Jones just needs to get the players playing like that regularly.
Didnt are the Wales game; was it dull given the score line?
It’s Jones, Alun Wyn.
Fair point, but certainly Wyn Jones wasnt playing!
was it dull given the score line?
Was pretty dire, having said that I was pretty tense but not one for the neutral!
Who cares we finally beat Australia
I'm glad someone finally got Alun-Wyn Jones name right 🙂 Kryton must be on the wind up now having been corrected so many times over the years
Wales game was scrappy (massive understatement!) and thank goodness Australia were so sh1t but they played the team in front of them and won in the same mold of how Scotalnd have turned them over in recent years (admittedly Australia were far better then).
Wales had a decent number of players today who you would have despaired if they made a Pro14 starting side not long back but the coaching and management have really made the most of what they have.
I thought NZ were lucky to not be penalised for not rolling away quick enough at the tackle in the last few minute butcthink Care over played it and the red let it go.
I actually thought England were very streetwise to play the referee's interpretation very well all game. Both teams did this every single ruck and another game you could see every one pinged. I did have a giggle when Care made such a show for the referee despite it being something that helped England all match.
Replacements, lineout, the fact it was the AB's... lots of things were not in their favour second half but the starting pack showed how monstrous England can be.
Wales game was scrappy and thank goodness Australia were so sh1t
Like Scotland last week?
Wales had a decent number of players today who you would have despaired if they made a Pro14 starting side not long back
Such as?
Anscombe, Smith, Beard, Dee, Lewis.. maybe despair (who in Wales doesn't like massive over-exaggeration 🙂 ) is too strong but you wouldn't have had them as players who wouldn't look out of place in an Aussie beating side. Sure some are young but still it is a great achievement for them. Wales have worked hard to build depth and it shows. Few other coaching setups seem to get as much out of players as Wales recently
Merde!
Anscombe, Smith, Beard, Dee, Lewis..
Lewis is about 12 so you can have him, but the others are very well regarded players at their regions. Dee is pretty much the Dregs best player or was till Moriarty arrived. Beard aint great but then no other lock in Wales is after Jones. Anscombe whilst obviously not good enough for Glasgow is a tidy player.
Edit, you forgot Cory Hill. Him and Beard did passable impressions of international locks this week and Hill did it last week too.
Jon Davies was ****ing immense and Josh Adams looks our best wing.
DanW
Scotland v Australia
Last time we thumped them and it's a while since we just defended them out of the game
Shh...TJ, it was always a weaker Oz team that played Scotland remember? Unlike today of course...
Scotland v Australia
Last time we thumped them
Whilst this is true, Australia (admittedly due to their own player’s stupidity) were down to 14 men for over half the match IIRC.
That was so beautifully ironic.
Remember the Italy game from a couple of years ago where Italy completely flummoxed England by taking advantage of the fact that a ruck hasn't formed until two players engage? The English were so upset that 6 months later the rules were changed so that the offside line is created at the tackle as soon as another attacking player arrives rather than an attacker and defender.
Bit quick to pull the trigger on that one, lads. If you hadn't Lawes would have been absolutely fine.
Shh…TJ, it was always a weaker Oz team that played Scotland remember? Unlike today of course…
If that was aimed at me, my point when TJ raised it a page or 2 ago was that its usually a weakened Wales team playing Aus. Yesterday was the first time in ages our bench wasnt a big step down from the starting 15.
So next week Ireland play NZ, which could be a cracker. Wales will need to rotate a few v Tonga. Moriarty will need a rest so who plays 8 is a mystery.Ellis Jenkins and Wainwright on Flank then the squad is empty unless Seb Davies is recalled to play 8?
So next week Ireland play NZ, which could be a cracker.
Didnt see their match yesterday, but from the press reports it sounds like Ireland weren’t at their best and gave away a few penalties. Really hope that Ireland throw everything at the AB’s next week for it to be a cracking game.
France shot themselves in the foot yesterday with a number of penalties at the death that led to SA scoring the winning try.
Te’o made SBW look bad!!!
Two of the biggest bellends in rugby too!
What has SBW done to merit the same level of bell-endery as Te’o?
Can I just take a moment to applaud the use of bell-endery there?
Just seen that Glasgow have confirmed that Hogg is leaving at the end of the season with Exeter rumourto be the front runners to sign him. His signing would be a change from their traditional recruitment policy which has seemed like academy players or rehabilitating careers of guys who have been faltering. To date, they’ve never really chased the superstar name.
SBW and Folau both sing from the same bigoted hymn sheet hidden behind the shield of ''religious views"....and both can **** right off in my book.
Just seen that Glasgow have confirmed that Hogg is leaving at the end of the season with Exeter
Maybe they could sign Anscombe as a 15??!!!??
SBW and Folau both sing from the same bigoted hymn sheet hidden behind the shield of ”religious views”….and both can **** right off in my book.
Do they, I know Folau is a ****, but always thought SBW seemed like a good bloke.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMa5dJ4kUPA
Just had a proper look at the Lawes offside and checked the laws. The laws say that the offside line is the back foot. CL's right foot is in the air ahead of the body of the england player on the ground, his back foot is difficult to judge. However, all of CL is well behind the foot of his team-mate. It was offside because the ref. said so, not by the letter of the law. Nice to see Barrett being turned inside out by a forward also good to see Retallick put on a master class.
I noticed that the ref. also has his own interpretation of offside from a kick earlier in the game which was much more straightforward. Looking forward to the AB Ireland game now, I hope Murray is fit.
Clearly offside, theres an nz player over the england player lay on the ground.
You can see 6 onside England players and Lawes is ahead of them. Although whoever posted above about the law clarification after the italy game on what is a ruck is quite right. A year or 2 ago that isnt a ruck!
Clearly not offside as in that still the ball is in the air!
Clearly not offside as in that still the ball is in the air!
True needs to be a frame or 2 earlier!
Watch thr vid posted earler.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=47FIn3dNvk8
Yes and I agree he is offside but it’s not as clear as some make out!
I’d like to see some of the later plays by NZ as thought there was at least one much clearer offside!
This is the weakest All Blacks side for ten years or so as they rebuild, struggle with injuries and too many games, they were there for the taking. I expect Ireland to beat them nxt weekend.
With all the changes in the lead up to the world cup, I think Eddie Jones may have over-estimated how much strength in depth there is in the England ranks. Jamie George being a case in point.
Eddie Jones perhaps should have retained the services of some older heads like Mike Brown. I'm not sure how firmly the door is shut in the lead up to the world cup.
I’d like to see some of the later plays by NZ as thought there was at least one much clearer offside!
They did score from them so cant go to video ref though.
Didnt I mean
Anyway what about this one, nothing given despite shoulder to head, ref didnt review it, video ref stayed quiet Aus got an equalising pen from the next ruck. Seemed a stone cold yellow to me, maybe even red, I guess protecting the head was last weeks thing. Cipriani should have done his high tackle last week.
Accidental collision. Unfortunate but no foul play as defined I would have thought
So you can accidentally throw yourself shoulder first into someones face and thats fine? Is intent needed, how would we know what his intent was?
Lets not forget these are world class rugby players with, compared to the rest of us, incredible levels of spacial awareness and physical talent.
"the referee is the sole arbiter of fact"
He was already in the air when 1/2p kicked the ball. Even a superhuman rugby player cannot change his trajectory in the air 🙂
I agree that it was a marginal call but the ref gave it as he saw it
How about Farrell missing 10+ tackles? Thats more than Jonny Gray does in 3 seasons 😉
Considering how badly halfpenny was kicking yesterday, the Ozzie did Wales a favour by putting him out of the game. I thought it deserved a yellow.
He was already in the air when 1/2p kicked the ball. Even a superhuman rugby player cannot change his trajectory in the air
So if he had shouldered him in the face whilst he still had the ball would that have been ok or would it be a high, no arms tackle? Not sure I follow the logic you are following.
“the referee is the sole arbiter of fact”
He was already in the air when 1/2p kicked the ball. Even a superhuman rugby player cannot change his trajectory in the air
I agree that it was a marginal call but the ref gave it as he saw it
I have never played rugby, but I have run around in my time and tried not to collide with people. I’m not sure he could have avoided colliding with Halfpenny, but it looked to me as if he tried to hit him hard, shoulder first. He knew where he was going, but deliberately looked away - looked very suspicious to me.
You see hits like that on kickers every game - some horrid welsh thug ( 😉 ) did it to Kinghorn the week before. going for a charge down you leap in the air as the kicker is lining up the kick. so long as your timing is right ie you are in the air before the ball is kicked then its deemed OK as you cannot change your trajectory in the air.
Its how its always reffed
You see hits like that on kickers every game – some horrid welsh thug ( 😉 ) did it to Kinghorn the week before.
Yes late tackles happen all the time but late shoulder barges to face dont. Are you really saying had he got him man and ball it wouldnt have been a reckless, high, no arms tackle? If so, then fair enough, you ate bonkers. This shoulder to the face of Kinghorn you dreamt up, care to say when it was, I'm sure the whole game is still on iplayer.
Imagine 1/2p is just stood there holding the ball! Its on a par with Cipriani's red at least.
Point being the ref did not think it late thus no pen . I agree it could have gone either way and its odd that attempted chargedowns do not aget pens in the same way high tackles do but thats the way its reffed
the differnce with the kinghorn one was that he didn't hit his head but other wise identical - so if you want that given as foul play then everytime the kicker is knocked over by an attempted chargedown its foul play
Point being the ref did not think it late thus no pen .
The ref didnt bother to check it.
Any news on this welsh shoulder to Kinghorns face?
Notvsure where you get this thing about charge downs being different. Faff DeKlerk got pinged for a much more innocuous challenge last night v France.
AA - the point is it WAS NOT LATE therefore there is no foul play therefore the shoulder is accidental - thats how the ref ruled it. Accidental thus no foul play. You may not agree but thats how the ref ruled it.
I did not say kinghorn got a shoulder to the head - I said he was hit after an attempted charge down. You see it all the time
That is a card of one colour or another depending on your view.
Contact with the head is just not acceptable in the modern game.
doesn't matter if it is late or tried to wrap you are just not allowed to make contact with the head in that manner.
taken from the rules I think :
<h2 class="">Reckless Tackle</h2>
<p class="">A player is deemed to have made reckless contact during a tackle or attempted tackle or during other phases of the game if in making contact, the player knew or should have known that there was a risk of making contact with the head of an opponent, but did so anyway. This sanction applies even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. This type of contact also applies to grabbing and rolling/ twisting around the head/ neck area even if the contact starts below the line of the shoulders.</p>
<p class="penalty"><b>Minimum sanction:</b> Yellow card</p>
<p class="penalty"><b>Maximum sanction:</b> Red card</p>
<h2 class="">Accidental Tackle</h2>
<p class="">When making contact with another player during a tackle or attempted tackle or during other phases of the game, if a player makes accidental contact with an opponent’s head, either directly or where the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders, the player MAY be sanctioned. This includes situations where the ball carrier slips into the tackle.</p>
<p class="penalty"><b>Minimum sanction:</b> Penalty</p>
AA – the point is it WAS NOT LATE therefore there is no foul play therefore the shoulder is accidental
Dear god its like talking to a brick wall, the point is it was contact with shoulder to head, accidental doesnt matter. Ask Faff DKlerk he got done for a similar thing on the same day. Must be a welsh conspiracy though as Owens was the ref.
If you really honestly think thats a legal challenge then theres no hope for you.
Not late??? Come on TJ don’t be silly
The Ozzie is out of control, he could say I was going for the ball, but even if he had arrived a second earlier, and got the ball, he still would have completely flattened the kicker.
The rules have to adapt to the new conditions of the professional game, i.e. the players are bloody huge now.
I think it has to be a card given how big, fast and powerful the average player now is - Kerevi is a Centre after all, not a forward. If the authorities don't police this side of the game they are going to end up with ever more head injuries and perhaps a broken neck or fatality.
It's amazing how the concept of what is a dangerous challenge has changed SO much in a mere 7 days......
Not late??? Come on TJ don’t be silly
I’m waiting for the video showing 1/2P still holding the ball when he gets hit. 😂
I also thought Farrell's challenge last week was a penalty; I've not seen the Cipriani one.
It's a shame things are going this way but it was predicted back in the 90s before the game went pro.
Players would get too big and powerful, contact would be increasingly damaging, and then either the authorities would have to get very tough on any dodgy challenges, or introduce limits over the size of players. They won't do the latter so the refs have to get tough to protect the well being of the players.
1.46.50s on match clock, not as bad, no contact with head, pen. Which ref is wrong TJ. The one who stopped the game to check or the one that waved play on?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mkwOLWAP7Ms
It’s amazing how the concept of what is a dangerous challenge has changed SO much in a mere 7 days……
Exactly. But that’s partly because the penalties a few weeks ago were so ludicrous (Cipriani), and partly because there is so little consistency between refs.
The not-penalty that bugged me wasn’t foul play, it was Hooper blatantly ‘swimming’ up the side of the maul, then looking at the ref who waves his arms and shouts ‘Through the middle’. 🙄
It’s amazing how the concept of what is a dangerous challenge has changed SO much in a mere 7 days……
Are we talking Farrel? I believe I have been consistent.
Mind you seeing as how refs could only spot crooked feeds to the scrum for two weeks after they were told to its no surprise head contact only lasted a few weeks too.
I thought the ref was poor all game. He gave Wales a couple of early pens when the jackler was clearly the tackler and didnt release, then Pocock and Hooper joined in and the game was ****ed. Still at least we won even if we seem to have become more boring than Ireland to do it.
How about this one TJ. Its a welsh conspiracy I tell you!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1mQfun_HMLs
Ignore me! It WAS a red,
Firstly - Eng lost because the ref said so.
Now, with regard to the offside line, it is the foot of the last player in the ruck. Can anybody tell me when Lawes is ahead of “The last Foot”? Not the backside, or arm, but “Foot”.
Now, with regard to the offside line, it is the foot of the last player in the ruck. Can anybody tell me when Lawes is ahead of “The last Foot”? Not the backside, or arm, but “Foot”.
There's an all black player partially obscured over, and slightly ahead of the england player on the floor. His foot is just ahead of Lawes back foot. Lawes forward most foot is waaaay ahead of it and the NZ player is bound to by the one behind him
Here is on just before the ball is picked up and he's offside here too.
Im watching the Italy game . It sort of puts to bed any discussion about relegation or two tiers in the 6N. (So far anyway. I’m 50 minutes in and Georgia look about as good as the Dragons. Hopefully they don’t win after I type this. 😁 )
Ive just read “World Rugby” rules of the game. Each teams offside line at a ruck is the rear feet of your own player.
That assault is the reason I will never give Hogg any credit st all. I am sure he has sleepless nights over it but that was a really cheap shot. Scumbag
Dantsw, from your link.
A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground.
So it wasnt a ruck, maybe The Hask can explain it to you!
https://www.ruck.co.uk/2018-six-nations-feature-range-new-law-amendments/
Ruck
5. Law 16
A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.
This law will put an end to the no-ruck tactic employed by Italy in last year’s Six Nations when they caught England by surprise in the first half of their encounter at Twickenham.
Rationale: To make the ruck simpler for players and referees.
I presume its still in the rules?
No, the ruck had formed, the England player had been bent over, but the offside line stays the same “back feet” until the ruck ends and either the ball is played or is deemed unplayable.
So was it or wasn't it a ruck a_a, if it wasn't a ruck where is the offside line then?
That rule doesn’t add that the NZ player creates Eng offside line?
Ive just read “World Rugby” rules of the game. Each teams offside line at a ruck is the rear feet of your own player.
Does that mean that we can have a replay of the Irish 6N game? Moriarty wasn’t offside, as I said at the time? 😁
The problem with Lawes is that he was ahead of his own defensive line. Defences don’t often allow enough room for a fellow player to be ahead of them.
IdleJon - my opening line was agreeing that the result should not change. I’m merely questioning AA’s assertion that Lawes was clearly offside. If my understanding of the rules is wrong, I’d like to be corrected by proof.
So was it or wasn’t it a ruck a_a
****ed if I know, everyone certainly seemed tonthink it was and the law amendment says it was but the link dan posted above says it wasnt....on balance, he's English so I reckon its a red card!
No but seriously, he was clearly offside in the way the refs currently ignore the rules
Yeah but the ruck in any game is a mess, and is barely refereed at all these days. Until a vital decision needs to be made when. I’m biased - I think the right decision was made. But I’d love the authorities to clean up rucks, which should make the game more competitive and faster. I’d guess there might be a few teams resisting that, though.
but the offside line stays the same “back feet”
That rule doesn’t add that the NZ player creates Eng offside line
This not correct as the England player is on the floor so he is not part of the ruck, he cannot ruck he's on the floor, when you are on the floor you are out of the game as my nan used to say!
That rule doesn’t add that the NZ player creates Eng offside line?
It does because if there are no English players in the ruck there must be an offside line for England or its not a ruck and it itvwas the feet of the English guy on the ground you'd see people lying down with their feet as far into the other teams side of the ruck as possible.
AA - one way to tell who is right the ref or you. Lets see if he is cited? all I am doing is explaining to you why the ref thought it not a penalty. It was not late, it was an accidental collision, thus no foul play
I also think the TMO has far too much input in this decision. The ref controls the offside line, the same way as he allows competition until he yells “ruck, hands off” Lawes looked to Garces for confirmation his line is fine, so he continues.
I actually think Lawes was textbook in this case.
All joking aside, did we agree that by the letter of the law, he was onside?
AA - have a read of those rules on when a ruck ends. The fact the England player goes off his feet doesn’t end it. Once formed(it already was) it doesn’t end until the ball is out or unplayable.