the only difference seems to be Genia back in at scrum half?
Well Pocock missed the 2nd/3rd tests and he's back - along with Giteau and Ashley-Cooper. Definitely a stronger lineup and closer to the RWC final side.
[i] Beauden Barrett certainly worth his starting place.[/i]
That was never in doubt! Makes things happen; brilliant player, one of the most exciting 10s I've ever seen 🙂
Giteau and Ashley-Cooper? Combined age? 😆 Obviously by 'shake-up' I meant something NEW!
AA, forget bugging, buggered more like!!
W looking very ragged and simple errors. Tough times for our favourite antipodeans 😉
Second half wasnt as good. Wanted to see them put 50 on the Aussies!
Well missed this one... Going to be bad in welly next week, back to the same Aussie pub..
If Barrett sorts his kicking then that is the best team in the worl
Care to give a reasoned explaination of who could be better than them even if BB kicks crap?
3 seems to be their main weakness.
Reasoned? If they get unstuck missing 4 kicks will cost them the game. Having a 90% penalty/conversion kicker helps. I'll wait till they play England for full judgement the Australians were bad tonight.
BB didnt miss any easy ones did he. So you think England could be better?
Dave Rennie to Glasgow, how on earth did the SRU pull that one off?
Puts England's narrow wins into perspective.
French domestic season starts today. Some tasty looking early games Sep 3 / Game 3 and 10 / Game 4. Opening games in Paris tickets for €10 or €5 for students athough everyone still on holiday !
They don't look quite as piss poor as when they lost to the lions, but yeah, aus don't look great.
duckman - I suspect he considers it a good chance to improve his CV. Win the pro 12 with Glasgow - not unlikely and he will look good. Do well in europe ( not this year but next) and again - good on the CV.
Also a team with a nice ethos and a good package apart from salery
Teej, reports are that it was planned and when Hansen re-signed,they moved for Rennie. Cotter is not having his contract renewed! 😯
I am disappointed about Cotter. Bit of a gamble to go with Toonie. the gossip I have heard tho is that cotter was going to go anyway to a top english / French club and Toonie was listening to offers as well - so this move was a pre-emptive one to keep Toonie in Scotland.
We shall see if the Toonie move is a good one but Rennie for Glasgow seems like a universally acclaimed move
I was surprised Scotland got a coach as good as Cotter in the first place. Scotland don't have a big enough pool of quality players to consistently trouble the top teams - nothwithstanding several good results in isolation - and this must limit the attraction for top class coaches. Hence some of the duffers they've had.
Mind you, I'm disappointed Cotter is going because SCotland have been better under him.
Coaches must take jobs to further their CVs and Cotter and Rennie have certainly done this. The Chiefs played fabulous rugby under Rennie but the basic skills of that squad exceed those of any side in the 6N/NH.
BTW - welcome back TJ 😉
namaste - the duffers have mainly been because of the useless people in chanre of the appointments. But yes the scotland coach will never be a top job. So we get the choice of the second rate ( Johnson) or an up and coming coach wanting to make their CV better. Cotter was a surprise coup for us being neither.
So apparently Gatland will be announced as Lions coach soon. Thoughts?
I reckon he'll do OK and is about the best available. Its shit news for Wales though.
So seeing as how no one has asked I thought I'd have a stab at a lions 15
1 Gypsy hater/That Tongan with the welsh accent who plays for England.
2 Kiwi biter
3 WP Nel
4 Itoje
5 A N Other Englander
6 The England captain from when they were shit
7 Brand Hask
8 Not Toby
9 Webb
10 G Henson
11 North
12 Manu Samoa Tuilagi
13 ?
14 Watson
15 Loopy Liam
So thats 5 Welsh, 5/6 English, 2/3 Tongans, 1 Kiwi and a Saffa.
Edit hang on its 1/2 Tongans and 1 Samoan!! Clue is in his name 😆
No irish or scottish cause they are crap 😆
Jonny Gray AKA ickle Jonny would be a good shout for 2nd row. He has now gone two complete seasons with only missing two tackles and averages over 10 a game. Fantastic Engine. Gets overlooked because neither Glasgow nor Scotland use him as a main lineout jumper but he is one of Scotlands few world class players
The other one who should go is Stuart Hogg AKA Diddier Hoggba. Form attacking FB of the home nations
If you are struggling for centres then Bennett AKA the messiah or Duncan Taylor wouldn't let anyone down
However quite honestly I don't really want them to go. Too disrupting to the national side.
Gatland as lions coach is daft. He is a limited coach who has limited tactics and plays his favourites at the expense of better players. Lions will be smashed anyway he will just mean that they will not score tries. Playing wales+ with welsh tactics will not work.
My choice would be Baxter
Hogg will be Lions number 15 unless Ha'penny makes the greatest comeback since Lazarus. I also think younger Gray will be there abouts, I also suspect Russell will be on the plane at the very least...Oh and Nel is as Scottish as lots of the Welsh imports, probably more since as the SRU read the rules before capping him... 😛
Halfpenny
Watson
Joseph
Tuilagi
North
Cipriani
Webb
Faletau
Warburton
Hughes
Kruis
Itoje
Nel
Hartley (c)
Marler
Gatland as lions coach is daft. He is a limited coach
Yet he has a Lions series win and some grand slams under his belt. Given the lack of availabilty he is the best we can do. As for Baxter, is he the Exeter coach seem decent but inexperienced and unproven at international level.
It'll be a 3 nil anyway regardless of the coach!!
Hogg at 15 is a good shout for a token Scot but joking aside Liam Williams was brilliant v NZ this summer. Liam seems to have sorted his more, how can I put it, competitive side, has Hogg?
Cipriani
Please??!!! When has he played well at international level? I actually would prefer Henson!!!
Hogg the diver? Hogg the cheap shot arsehole? you have got to be kidding.
The way the Kiwis destroyed Australia you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
When has he played well at international level?
2008 - against Ireland.
The question should be when has he PLAYED at international level?
In the RWC warm-ups he looked terrific the few times he got on the field. Likewise in the 2015 6N against Italy. He also played well off the bench in the 1st test of the NZ tour in 2014.
Consistently great for Sale and solid for the Saxons against SA. Maybe if he has a good season for Wasps..........
I suspect the "no dickheads" factor keeps him out but he has more ability than most of the other 10s.
If he was Lions test quality he would have a good run of test caps by now. A consistent batch of coaches have not picked him. Henson has Lions caps so being a bell end is no barrier, as has Austin Healey but then maybe he was just picked to be a punch bag for O'Driscol!!
The way the Kiwis destroyed Australia you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
True but Wales gave them a game for 2 of the 3 tests up to about 50-60 mins and played some good attacking rugby.
Hogg is definitely calmed down a bit. I'd put his dickhead rating below Williams. Are fullbacks the new scrum halves? Many international FBs nowadays seem to be arses.
Russell won't be going I bet. Lost some form / been injured IIRC and especially if Gatland is the coach he is not the sort of player Gatland likes.
AA - Gatlands record agains SH sides with Wales? Worse than Scotlands 😉
His previous lions series win - that was a poor Aus side that we should have beaten easily. His selections and tactics made it harder than it should have been. the way he likes his teams to play is not the right way to beat teams teams in the top few of the rankings. all IMO from the comfort of my armchair 😉
Well Cips falls into that "untrustworthy maverick genius" category that befell the likes of Stuart Barnes, Matt Letissier, Frank Worthington, Mark Ramprakash etc etc.
He started brilliantly. Got badly injured. Was rushed back and played poorly. Fell out with the coaches and went to Australia where he fell in with the likes of Kurtley Beale at James O'Connor. Came back. Knuckled down well at Sale (apart from getting run over by a bus). Played well on limited appearances for England. Got done for drunk driving.
Lancaster wouldn't pick anyone a bit "flash" and history has proved him to have been a terrible international coach. EJ has hit a winning formula with Ford/Farrell and is unlikely to change.
Had Cipriani been handled better by an Alex Ferguson type figure in his early years it might have been a different story. In Josh Lewsey's book he reckoned Cipriani had the tools to be one of the greatest players ever, even though he was a dickhead.
you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
Well we had the next best thing last time - Sir Clive (gawd bless 'im) - and we still got trounced.
Wales gave them a game for 2 of the 3 tests up to about 50-60 mins and played some good attacking rugby.
True but it still added up to a 3-0 loss. However, Gats is the only real choice. He's pragmatic enough to pick the best players (English) and hopefully come up with a gameplan to go at the ABs hard enough to knock them off their stride.
We'll see. If Wales pip England at the next 6n then he has his chance to do Wales plus again. I hope not, I'd like to watch this series. Got ta be sexton or Farrell at 10.
Ryan bevington signed for Bristol, seem to remember him being quite useful, anyone have an opinion on him?
Gats will do Wales+ anyway. Its his style. some would say its justified given that he has little time to get to know players and for them to get used to each other. I bet its more than half the squad is welsh and that some new faces who most would think should go miss out. Players like Itoje and Kruis will miss out for Alun Wyn-jones. Its gatlands way - he does not like to take anything he considers a risk. He knows and trust AJW.
If England continue on their upward trajectory then I can see half the touring party being English. Gats will pick what he thinks are the best options and if England win back to back 6N and put together a winning streak against the SH he'll see the benefits.
2nd row is hardly a concern. We're blessed with massive depth - Kruis, Itoje, Launcbury, Lawes, AWJ, The Gray brothers, Toner and Henderson. They could all do a job for the Lions.
Ryan bevington signed for Bristol, seem to remember him being quite useful, anyone have an opinion on him?
Good rugby player, shit prop. Should have been chained to a scrum machine for the last two years to improve his weaknesses but has been injured.
AA - Gatlands record agains SH sides with Wales?
Shit, fail to see how thats important though. Wales are not very good. His record as a Lions coach is pretty good though. I'll ask this though who is available who could be better? Sad fact is in the modern day its not a dream job.
Gats will do Wales+ anyway
Did you see any of the welsh games v NZ this June. Very un Gatland like.
Players like Itoje and Kruis will miss out for Alun Wyn-jones. Its gatlands way - he does not like to take anything he considers a risk
Its Alun-Wyn Jones!! Leaving aside the fact that Itoje and Kruis were miles better than him last season and on current form would be in ahead of him, why should Gatland have risked anything last time? His job was to win a test series which he did. Also at the time Wales were the strongest of the home nations so more of those players got picked. Currently England are and should form the bulk of the squad. Sir Clive picking the world cup winning team when they were passed their sell by date was far worse.
True about Woodwood
It's a stain on Woodward that will never be removed, nearly destroyed the whole Lions ethos.
In other news this is awful but might just help things improve!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/23/cillian-willis-sue-sale-sharks-concussion-saracens
Wasn't he in peaky blinders?
Henson for the Lions, lovely delayed pass at 33s and great offload at 44s. Varndell still has some wheels!!!
The season hasn't even started and we are talking about Chippy. He has just been done for drink driving having tried to lie his way out of it. His lack of a brain counts against him. A lot. As it should.
Personally I think Gatland would be a terrible choice as coach.
Personally I think Gatland would be a terrible choice as coach.
Why and who else is available, wants it and is better?
Cotter?
Cotter is with Scotland till the end of the season. Gatland has a sabatical clause in his contract. Wales will be left with Stan Laurel in charge again for the year when world cup seedings are decided!!
I'd like to see Dai Young and Baxter take it on.
I see Mike Ford is out of a job at present.....I'd sooner have Gatland!!!
I'd like to see Dai Young and Baxter take it on.
Why? They have no international experience of coaching. It should be a job for the best coach in Britain. Sad fact is none of them either want it or would be allowed to do it by their employers so Gatland is the best available. Even sadder is the fact that I doubt Young or Baxter would be allowed to leave their current jobs for the time needed. Its getting harder and harder to see how the lions can keep going in the future.
Still at least I still have Gav!!!
Gatland doesn't have the nouse to beat the all blacks, this is a known so throw some wild cards into the mix. Jones doesn't want it. Cotter can't do it. Gatland has done it before, and doesn't merit it.
Cotter could do it. He asked to be considered. I don't want him to but as he is leaving and his replacement is ready to step in its not an issue
MY choice is Baxter simply because I like the way exceter play and he has improved them
Gatland doesn't have the nouse to beat the all blacks, this is a known
Is this a Jambafact. Wales havent beaten the Allblacks since 1953 and we've had two who have gone on to win world cups.
Cotter could do it. He asked to be considered. I don't want him to but as he is leaving and his replacement is ready to step in its not an issue
Cotter leaves scotland after autumn internationals, who takes over? Are Glasgow just expected to bend over?
Remember Glasgow are the bulk of the Scotland team. tactics and style are similar. Glasgow are SRU run. Toonie does both for the six nations with the Glasgow assistants stepping up?
All I know is Cotter made it clear he was interested but now seems to be out of the running anyway.
Is this a Jambafact. Wales havent beaten the Allblacks since 1953 and we've had two who have gone on to win world cups.
It's a real fact. Gatand has had his chance many times and came up short. He'll get the job but he shouldn't.
What has Cotter done to get so much adulation? International record isn't exactly stellar played 28 lost 14 won 14. How does that qualify hin to be the Lions coach?
TBF Gatlands win record is only marginally better 😆
It's a real fact. Gatand has had his chance many times and came up short
Er you do realise he's coached a lions test win? You do realise that the rest of the time he's coaches wales who arent very good and both Henry and Hansen failed to beat the All Blacks with Wales and they did alright later in their career? I'm no massive Gatland fan but he is a good coach and to say he lacks the nous to beat top teams is just lazy. So far hr has lacked the players.
Happy to agree to disagree. Gats has never beaten any top teams, even with a slam winning side. I don't dislike the bloke at all, but I do think we'd have a better chance with a more pragmatic coach.
He has beaten S. Africa and Australia who are the other top teams 😆 he is 50 50 against england never lost to Scotland, oh you said top teams 😉
I dont disagree that he's not the best coach but he is pretty good and does have a good record. I would also prefer wales not to be rudderless for a year. Wales did ok in NZ this june till injuries mounted up. If we had some decent bench players we would have given them 2 good games for the full 80 and played some good attacking rugby. They had the likes of Ardie Savea and Bauden Barrett on the bench we had Tomos Francis and Anscombe. Wales suffer the same problem v Aus or SA we lack the bench to compete beyond 60 mins and with a few injuries to key players we are screwed for a starting 15 too. Luckily for us England and France have underperformed in recent years and despite their stronger benches we can get far enough ahead to win beforehand.
If you look at Gatland's 6N/Grand Slam record with limited player resources he's done pretty bloody well. He also has a 100% series record with the Lions already - albeit against a very disorganised Australia.
I think, given the lack of preparation time, someone who's been there and done it is ideal.
EJ would probably do a good job but (rightly) he wants to concentrate on England.
EJ would be me favourite too but even if he wanted it would England release him?
Varndell still has some wheels!!!
Yeah I was surprised he never threw his hat in the ring for the Olympic 7s.
is that what we are calling the a************r now EJ? 😆 i have a real problem with him 😆 he is a fantastic coach though and turned around england in very short order. There was never anything wrong with the trundle muppets that a decent coach couldn't sort out and he certainly did it.
I think we are going to see a period of domestic dominance from england but hopefully not another world cup 😀
ej coaching the Lions would be interesting but I think it would be an england side in disguise.
Great team try by Stade Francais at 2:10
ej coaching the Lions would be interesting but I think it would be an england side in disguise.
Indeed but thats what we need to compete with the all blacks England plus with a strong bench. Problem is if Gatland picks England plus can he coach the system in such a short lead in. This is why Gatland pucked Wales plus last time.
Do you think that the establishment of a Wales "a" side will help with strength in depth a_a?
Gats beat SA once in 18 meetings? All through the slam years? The only aus wins were with the lions yes?
He's not bad, but I'd look elsewhere. The lions will get thrashed anyway but it would be nice to have a win. Not convinced he has the dog to do it. Warrenball won't do it that much is for sure. If I'm proved wrong I'll put my hand up and admit it though.
Do you think that the establishment of a Wales "a" side will help with strength in depth a_a?
We dont have enough players to have two 30 man squads!! When Tomos Francis is your second choice tighthead and Gethin Jenkins is still the best loosehead at 86 years old we dont have players. The players who it would hep like Patchel for example are only 2 injuries away from the starting 15. Liam Williams is our best full back and right wing!!
The only thing that would help are stronger regions but the cash isnt available due to the pro12 being shit. I'll get flamed for saying it but the welsh and irish subsidise the scots and italians. How the scottish regions have bigger budgets than the welsh when only 3 dogs and cat go to watch them should be a question people are asking. Only way to save pro rugby in Wales long term would be a British League and that aint going to happen.
Gats beat SA once in 18 meetings? All through the slam years? The only aus wins were with the lions yes?
Yes but wales are no very good. The fact that England and France could not beat them is because they under performed badly. Add to this autumn series with 4 games and invariably playing Aus last outside the window with key players missing back in France or England and other injuries from the previous 3 tough games and its no wonder. Had we played just 3 games and played them all in the window like Ireland or Scotland with just 1 of the big 3 then we might have crawled over the line once or twice. As it is playing NZ then SA then Argentina and then Aus outside the window the team gets flogged to death.
Gethin Jenkins is still the best loosehead at 86 years old
I thought he was in his nineties, plenty of life left in him 😆
the team gets flogged to death
Yeah read an article with Bradley Davies saying that playing in England and also playing for Wales is nigh on impossible. He decided it had to be one over the other. I pity Faletau at Bath.......
[url= http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bradley-davies-sends-warning-wales-11778947 ]HERE[/url]
Faletau, touch wood, has been unbreakable, hope Wales use him carefully.
Cooper starts for the Wallabies, with Foley at 12 as Toomua and Giteau both crocked. Lienart-Brown at 12 for the ABs as Crotty, Moala, Ngatai and SBW all out.
Australia
1. Scott Sio,2. Stephen Moore (c),3. Sekope Kepu,4. Kane Douglas,5. Adam Coleman,6. Scott Fardy,7. Michael Hooper ,8. David Pocock ,9. Will Genia ,10. Quade Cooper,11. Dane Haylett-Petty ,12. Bernard Foley,13. Samu Kerevi ,14. Adam Ashley-Cooper ,15. Israel Folau ,
Replacements :16. Tatafu Polota-Nau,17. James Slipper,18. Allan Ala’alatoa ,19. Will Skelton,20. Dean Mumm ,21. Nick Phipps ,22. Tevita Kuridrani ,23. Reece Hodge*
New Zealand
1. Joe Moody, 2. Dane Coles , 3. Owen Franks , 4. Brodie Retallick, 5. Samuel Whitelock , 6. Jerome Kaino, 7. Sam Cane , 8. Kieran Read (c) ,, 9. Aaron Smith , 10. Beauden Barrett , 11. Julian Savea , 12. Anton Lienert-Brown, 13. Malakai Fekitoa , 14. Israel Dagg , 15. Ben Smith ,
Replacements : 16. James Parsons , 17. Wyatt Crockett , 18. Charlie Faumuina, 19. Liam Squire, 20. Ardie Savea , 21. TJ Perenara , 22. Aaron Cruden , 23. Seta Tamanivalu
That Kiwi pack is something else, another humping coming up for Australia.
The backs are not too bad either! Dagg and Smith switched. Smith is wasted on the wing as good as Dagg is Smith is the best 15 in the world by far!
4. Brodie Retallick, 5. Samuel Whitelock
Gulp!
Smith is the best 15 in the world by far!
True but, on recent form, Dagg is probably the second best so they want him in there too. When Milner-Skudder returns it'll make things more interesting.
Aus are looking as buggered in the centres as England!
Giteau is crooked (possibly for good) and Toomua is off to Tigers after this tri nations (or whatever it is) so will be unable to be picked.
Another humping coming I feel
NZ only playing in flashes this week. Aus defending better but only looks like being one winner.
NZ only playing in flashes this week
Indeed but still 4 tries to nil and a comfortable 20pt win.
You can still marvel at the basic running and handling skills of the ABs from 1-15. They dominated in the set piece too. I think some of the lack of cohesion can be attributed to the absence of Crotty although Lienert-Brown played well.
Barrett looks ever more assured and Dagg and Smith were excellent as was Coles. Sam Cane impresses me more with each game he starts.
Cane is going to be really special.
Well, the Wallabies brought out their "secret weapon" : Quade Cooper! 😆
NZ countered with Lienert-Brown... hmm, which had the biggest impact?
Can't wait to see what'll happen when Argentina beat Australia.
