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This is the 10th anniversary of the 6N where England were supposed favourites,
Isn't every year the 10th anniversary of the 6N where England were supposed favourites?
Isn’t every year the 10th anniversary of the 6N where England were supposed favourites?
In the eyes of the English press yeah. Any actual England fan, all we have his hope..
We can only apologise. What makes it worse is the total delusion, like last year when we beat Italy and then the plaudits were rolled out, it was like winning the world cup because we beat them 33-0 and made it look flashy, but they were missing half their biggest names, and had nothing like the caps, "talent", or resources of the English Squad. It was 1st team men vs boys.
Shameful, and one eyed stupidity.
It reminded me of the video of disgraced PM Johnson flattening an 11 year old on a rugby pitch and being proud of himself about it.
Anyway I wrote that in the wrong order, I meant the 10th year of wales win after being beaten first by Ireland, the "england favourites" was an aside... I was trying to cheer him up for his birthday. when is yours maybe we can find some +ve rugby facts?
rankings
1 Ireland 90.7
2 France 90.01
3 NZ 88.98
4 SA 88.97
5 Scotland 83.06
6 England 82.15
7 Aus 81.8
8 Argentina 80.72
9 Wales 78.02
10 Japan 77.39
I am enjoying the rankings this week
Its hard to see anyone but one of the top 4 winning the WC for sure
Yeah, except for the fact that all four of those teams are on the same side of the draw. A maximum of two of them are getting to the semi-finals (even Scotland are on the same side of the draw).
Chances are two of those four will then meet in the finals but who knows in a knockout competition.
We could well end up seeing Wales in the final.
I was trying to cheer him up for his birthday
LRZ is supposed to be back for the Lloegr game. Not sure if that's still going to be the case. I think he would've scored against Eire.
Chances are two of those four will then meet in the finals but who knows in a knockout competition.
Even though NZ and France are in the same group, and Ire SA in the same group, the winner and runner up in the same group could, in theory, both make it through to the final.
My point was really that there is a gulf between the top 4 teams and those below them
Now I love some stats but the england / Scotland game throws up some interesting stuff.
Comparisons with the backrows combined
Defending - England made 24 tackles and missed five Scotland made 59 and missed 2
Attacking England 39 carries for 60 m and 14 passes Scotland 21 carries for 24 m and 11 passes
I think that shows a huge difference in how the teams were set up to play and the tactics. Scotland really only used forward carries ( not just back row) to set up the backs not as a weapon in itself. English forwards were predictable and easily stopped
Look at the 22 stats, Scotland were only in our 22 for about 90 seconds and converted to points every time. The English attack was rubbish by comparison. I don't think it is the forwards being predictable, more that you moved the ball out after 1st or 2nd phase, whereas we did not...
However 2 of the scotland tries were scored from runs starting outside the 22.
Even though NZ and France are in the same group, and Ire SA in the same group, the winner and runner up in the same group could, in theory, both make it through to the final.
Sure, but the point is that only two of those teams are going to make it past the 1/4 finals (winner of pool A plays runner up of pool B and vice versa).
Chances are they'll make the finals but in the knockout stages anything can happen.
Sure, but the point is that only two of those teams are going to make it past the 1/4 finals (winner of pool A plays runner up of pool B and vice versa).
Yeah exactly.
Also AA – This is the 10th anniversary of the 6N where England were supposed favourites, Ireland beat Wales at home, and then Wales beat England 30-3 and went on to win the 6N.
I think it's a safe assumption that the only thing Wales are likely to win this year is a splintery spoon.
Yeah exactly.
TJs point was that it was hard to see past one of the top 4 teams.
My point is that if the maximum number of top 4 teams in the final 4 is limited to 2 then that gives a lot more opportunity for massive upsets than if the maximum possible number of top 4 teams in the final 4 was 4.
It's stupid to do the seedings three years before the competition.
It’s stupid to do the seedings three years before the competition.
I think it is especially an issue this time around because of the decline of Oz and to a lesser extent the AB’s compared to the rise of France and Ireland. SA/ NZ/ ENG/ OZ have probably made up the majority of last 4 places in every World Cup.
I'd say that international rugby is at a fairly young and somewhat precarious stage of development. How big is the group of countries who have a real chance of winning a top class international tournament? I'd say there's six. Next question is are the authorities doing enough to expand the international game, to bring in other countries as more than cannon fodder for the world cup?
You have to pick a deadline and I think 3 years out is more to do with booking tickets/accomadation/flights etc for fans.
I went to 2007 world cup 1/4s in Marseille and we booked 2 years in advance. Marseille, Aix en Provence, the whole area was rammed.
I would say whenever the draw was made it would still cause issues.
The 1/4s kind of tidys it up for me.
EG should NZ and France been in group a, and SA and IRE in group b?
Probably not, as you do not want the two best teams facing each other too early or one will get knocked out. However they get separated out in the 1/4s so there is a good chance they will meet in the final if they are good enough.
Conversely, yes there is a chance of Wales making the final, but don't we like/need upsets? It adds to the fun.
(NB - Wales were in the same group as Fiji in 2007 and got knocked out by them in the group stages, so there were loads of Welsh fans in Marseille supporting Fiji, it was excellent fun, and guess who Wales have in their group this time, in France...... FIJI!!!)
You have to pick a deadline and I think 3 years out is more to do with booking tickets/accomadation/flights etc for fans.
And yet football world cup, euros, etc all manage to have the teams determined around 6 months before. It's a nonsense that it needs to be that far in advance it doesn't need to be more than 12 months out.
Yeah it was only an assumption, I'm not defending them...
It does make it easier to organise for fans tho.
How big is the group of countries who have a real chance of winning a top class international tournament? I’d say there’s six.
4 at the moment. France, NZ, Ireland, SA england might pull back to join them but not right now
. Next question is are the authorities doing enough to expand the international game, to bring in other countries as more than cannon fodder for the world cup?
A lot goes to the minnows ( teams like Spain. Uruguay) in terms of coaching, support, tournaments etc - the issue is those that grow out of being minnows like Georgia and Fiji. Neither get to play top sides very often. IMO Georgia should get 3 AIs every year and Fiji should get more games home and away. Between the last two world cups Fiji had something like 8 competitive matches in 4 years. 6N teams usually have 11 games a year. No one has toured pacific islands since scotland about 7 years ago ?
The pacific islands do at least have a team in the SH club tournament at last
The 6N needs to have relegation down to the 2nd tier in Europe, and the top team from the next tier down (whether Georgia or Romania or Spain or Germany etc) promoted.
But the 6 incumbent teams / unions will never buy into that as it will cost them some ££,
I think once we have a few years of Georgia playing regular AIs then a playoff would be right - not automativc relegation. At the moment Georgia are not good enough
@tja I was being kind to the Aussies, who are clinging on to fading memories of glory and France who promise a lot but until now haven't delivered. England are also clinging to memories of Wilkinsons drop kick. . Ireland and Wales have been good but never quite good enough.
There could be a competitive autumn tournament in the northern hemisphere with a team from the lower European tier and something should be done to aid the island nations too They've all been plundered by the rest of the rugby world
I’m not sure there would be the market for it, plus; when? Autumn is the obvious choice but you would go way over the window, so diminish interest. We don’t sell out the weaker test as it is.
I've watched the England match half a dozen times now. Magical tho Duhans first try is its an individual effort. I think his second try is actually much better as it shows where Scotland are as a team now. Scotland caught a kick way back in their 22. Almost every team on the planet would set up a pressure relieving kick from there ( exit strategy) Scotland however look to attack first every time they get the ball no matter where. Now if the attack is not on ie after two passes there is no space or a couple of rucks and get nowhere they will kick but Scotland moved the ball from wide on the left to wide on the right, Steyn made good yards. Quick recycle and back to the left wing and in for the score. They went side to side twice and gained 80+ m to score. there was no luck in that - it was just good attack from deep and playing too fast for England.
I take both your points Duckman. We are still left with a very small group and ultimately a number of the said group are not competitive with the real top teams.
@tjagain I agree although first try was extraordinary the second try was the more satisfying as you could see the thought and teamwork
French squad to play Ireland is up. Looks solid.
Only change in Scotland side is Nel being rested for Faegerson. In other news, reports are coming out that Worcester are not coming back.
If Worcester or wasps did come back who would sign for them? They'd have to break the pay cap just to attract "3rd XV" players ie old n slow past their prime or too young for most 1st teams.
I heard they renamed them Sixways rugby, thats the name of the roundabout outside the club.....
It gets worse, despite rumours of Wasps moving to Sixways, the new owner of "Sixways Rugby" said they are going to take over a club ( Stourbridge) and move them 23 miles to Sixways. That conveniently avoids the onerous task of moving the actual Wocester club up approx 6 divisions of lower tier rugby. Probably kills an old community club as well.
That sucks.
ie old n slow past their prime or too young for most 1st teams.
Wales just called they want there election strategy back.
So another club I used to play against as a kid (Stourbridge) are going to be ****ed over ..great..
Wales drop Faletau...can't help but think that's a bad idea. Excited to see if Jenkins and Tshinza can step up though. I'd have put Jac at 7 over Reffel and Faletau at 8...can't help but think that packs going to get reamed though. Still at least we will see if these youngsters are up to it.
Just gets worse for Worcester fans……….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64502475
Kicked out of the premiership and now deleted from the matrix.
Wales drop Faletau…can’t help but think that’s a bad idea. Excited to see if Jenkins and Tshinza can step up though. I’d have put Jac at 7 over Reffel and Faletau at 8…can’t help but think that packs going to get reamed though. Still at least we will see if these youngsters are up to it.
All the Scotland fans at my work and those I’ve heard on the BBC rugby podcasts are extremely confident they’ll beat Wales on Saturday. Whilst I think Scotland are clear favourites, their total confidence surprises me. I’m hoping the Wales youngsters go well and the game is tight. The game being as good as over after 10 minutes against Ireland was miserable.
Very likely to be 3 home wins this weekend, following the 3 away wins last weekend. I shall be cheering on, the away teams 😁
All the Scotland fans on the rugby boards I am on are very apprehensive. 🙂 Wales are our bogey team. In recent years we have beaten England and France more often I think
All the Scotland fans on the rugby boards I am on are very apprehensive. 🙂 Wales are our bogey team. In recent years we have beaten England and France more often I think
Fair enough. As I said, I do think Scotland will win. Hopefully not by a huge margin. As a Wales fan, I’d just like to see something promising to latch onto. Losing the first game has taken away quite a bit of the excitement for the tournament as a whole.
I'd like to smash 'em. Time for some payback. I'm still smarting from 2010 FFS let alone last year. 🙂 Its 20 years since Scotland won the first two games in the 5/6 N
I think more likely we will get pulled into an arm wrestle and it will be close but 5th in the world compared to 9th we should be OK.
I will be in my usual place behind the sofa
Wales effort against Ireland was really quite good. Dropping Falateau based on last week is a good idea, however he can put in a shift every now and then, so you need to hope this weekend isn't that.
I look at the Wales team and know that if we beat it then it will be a horrible close game. Inside I have a fear of another undeserved defeat caused by a red to an important player.
undeserved defeat caused by a red to an important player.
I'm struggling to remember any unwarranted red cards. Or undeserved defeats to be honest.
2010!
Thanks for reminding me of that. That was some last 5 minutes!
Sorry, messed up the YouTube link. Perhaps just as well 😜
Bold call, Falateau has been one of the best forwards in six nations for a decade. Saying that Reffel and Tshinza have been great in the prem so far, they could be about for a while.
Wales effort against Ireland was really quite good.
Bloody hell you are easily pleased. It was shite
Once again, a great video by Squidge. It kinda confirms TJ’s analysis, shows why Youngs has been dropped, and starts to reveal Englands Traditional vs New play. What did startle me was how he’s singled out Farrell play and comms*. Farrell gets a lot of stick but watch this a you start to understand why he needs to be on the pitch with a less experienced team shaping themselves to a new regime.
This match in 12 months time should be awesome to watch if Scotland retain their shape and confidence, a much more experienced and practiced England playing a proven Scots winning team at Murrayfield. Ooof.
*having played 13 at club level International communication and organisation is so far another level not seen from “crowd view” it amazes me. It really needs slow analysis like this to be understood (by me anyway).
I didn't think it was squidges best work. He glossed over the way that Scotland were able to make huge ground thru the centres and he thinks that scotlands last try was off the cuff play - I don't think it was.
He is always interesting and funny tho and clearly puts a lot of thought into it
Anyone got predictions for the weekend? I'm still struggling to decide.
I think France will beat Ireland by 5 to 8 points.
Scotland should beat Wales, hopefully by not too much. But, the thought of a Gatland Wales side losing to Scotland is difficult to consider. Fingers crossed for a sneaky Wales win 😃
Again it's hard not to picture England winning. But, I'm going to go out on a limb: Italy to win by 4 points.
My record with predictions is pretty poor!
Italy will push England hard and could win but unlikely. 6 pt win toEngland
France / Ireland will be close. 3 pt win to Ireland
Scotland / wales. Scotland should win well - but Wales are our bogey team. I'm just hiding behind the sofa 🙂
Scotland should be too good for Wales. Gats has pretty much thrown the match in the name of blooding youngsters
Scotland should be too good for Wales.
Their players that concern me are VDM obviously, and their 12/13 pairing of Tuipulotu and Jones.
tjagain: as an early fan of VDM do you think he’s improved a lot since before the Lions tour? I seem to recall thinking he was good back then, but with clear weaknesses. First on your team sheet?
Huw Jones made a great start at international rugby iirc, but then went off the boil. He seems to have redound his mojo. Is that fair?
I’m a fan of North’s, but I don’t think he’s had the impact at 13 that I’d hoped for.
tjagain: as an early fan of VDM do you think he’s improved a lot since before the Lions tour? I seem to recall thinking he was good back then, but with clear weaknesses. First on your team sheet?
He is still a bit too one dimensional. Defensive positioning is not always great tho he has improved. I think like many very powerful backs he has all his career used his power rather than technique in defense and at an ternational level you can tell. compare to wee Darcy who has had to learn good technique and positioning as he is small - and as a result is IMO a better defender. However as an attacking back he is one of the best in the world. I cannot think of another player with his pace and strength. Quickest man in the scotland team. top in defenders beaten 3 years running in the pro 14. How often does it take 3 folk to stop him?
3rd on the teamsheet after the maestro Finn and the wee man Darcy. We are weaker without him for sure
Smith dropped Faz to 10
England Squad.
Good to give some new boys a go. It is by no means settled that England will win this. Hopefully Italy will scare them silly.
15. Freddie Steward
14. Max Malins
13. Henry Slade
12. Ollie Lawrence
11. Ollie Hassell-Collins
10. Owen Farrell (C)
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Ellis Genge (VC)
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Ollie Chessum
6. Lewis Ludlam
7. Jack Willis
8. Alex Dombrandt
Replacements
16. Jack Walker
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Dan Cole
19. Nick Isiekwe
20. Ben Earl
21. Alex Mitchell
22. Marcus Smith
23. Henry Arundell
Smith dropped Faz to 10
What do you think of that AA?
I think Smith could be amazing. Not sure he works with Farrell, he looks much better for his club (don't they all) . Hmmmm...
Problem is people will read to much in to a positive result, if we get one.
I rate Faz higher than most on here. Smith seems a bit too James Hook for me, always looks to make the break himself rather than put others into space like a Finn Russell type...having said that I have t seen that much of him.
Smith seems a bit too James Hook for me, always looks to make the break himself rather than put others into space like a Finn Russell type…having said that I have t seen that much of him.
I think that is bang on, his club performances are punctuated by solo efforts.
He works for club because he has Andre outside him who teams are petrified of because he busts gainline continually. He creates space for Smith.
Farrell is a quality player, but teams aren’t worried about him in the 12 channel so less space for smith. Ford / Farrell works because they know each other and Ford is possibly the best attacking fly half in England
Ollie Lawrence is big enough to be a good crash ball 12 for Smith. Farrell will be looking to cement his place and so will aim for big smash and a strip tackle. There'll be at least one high shot.
There’ll be at least one high shot.
At least. Maybe this is the time he gets red carded.
It could be that I just don’t know the England players as well as I normally might; but that England team does not look daunting. I remember often looking at their squad and thinking ‘oh no, so and so is playing. We’re in trouble here’. Jonathan Joseph, Anthony Watson, George Kruis (I think it was him), amongst others.
I’m not anti England, but I’d love to see Italy win on Sunday.
Give Farrell his due - no cheap shots or high tackles against Scotland. Maybe he has learned.
I am actually now fairly hopeful we will beat Wales ( remember I’m Scottish) while it is blasphemy I have not been convinced about Gatland for a couple of years and with the exception of Reffell who will be the best back row on the pitch, some of his selections are nuts.
As for the wooden spoon decider 😃
That’s the best team England could put out and they should hammer Italy. Earl is brilliant and Lawrence is vastly underrated because his name isn’t Manu. I was quite pleased when Faz/Smith were starting last week as I knew Russell and Jones had the POTENTIAL to make a mess of the disconnect between them.
Scotland with 15 players on the park by under 10.
Borthwick’s new dawn XV by over 15.
some of his selections are nuts
how so?
some of his selections are nuts.
Not picking Faletau is fairly nuts but it allows him to look at both Reffell and Tshinza not sure what else is nuts? He is not not exactly flush with quality options.
Give Farrell his due – no cheap shots or high tackles against Scotland.
I saw one on Russell which was late enough for the ball to be in a different postcode
Russell got up and smiled at him after it. It should be pointed out that Farrell and Russell actually like one another off the field.
Gutting his pack like that while replacing them with really inexperienced players, or players who are literally returning from a month injured.
Gutting his pack like that while replacing them with really inexperienced players, or players who are literally returning from a month injured.
And who apart from Faletau who was very poor last game should he pick? The ghost of AWJ past and the artist formally known as Tipuric? Francis was Uber shite and got crocked and all 3 loose heads are much of a muchness. If you could dredge up a Welsh qualified lock with international experience that isn't 37 you would be doing well the only one I can think of is Seb Davies and despite him having had lots of chances he will never be good enough. Simple fact is that we need at least one of Jenkins or Tshinza to step up and we need to look beyond AWJ and Tipuric as they appear past it. Gatland has less than 10 games to get one of those two up to speed.
Gutting his pack like that while replacing them with really inexperienced players, or players who are literally returning from a month injured.
If I understand it correctly, Scotland attacked England by making them run around a lot. I suspect the experienced Wales players can still do a lot of what they could, however their stamina is unlikely to be what it was. These new, inexperienced players should cope better in that respect I presume. Wales fans won’t be expecting flawless play, but something to give a glimmer of hope for the future and even signs we’ll get out of our group in the World Cup. All the inexperienced players have impressed in training.
In Gatland we trust 😉
Your coach said he needed a “balance” Has he done that?
A balance of what?
You can only pick what you have got, who should he have picked?
Don't think he's dropping players, more resting the oldies on the one week turnaround. They put in a shift last week. Will be back next time.
Farrell often does that with the Ireland semi retired bunch. But it's France so not this time.
Went to see Italy England U20s last night in Gloucester, really entertaining match. A coupe of things stood out, the tacking of the Italians was brilliant, low and effective. Italian scrum really strong. England number 9 had a hell of a pass. The ref was so inconsistent, hate criticising officials but he was poor. All in all a great game to watch.
Great start to Ireland v France. Some first try by Ireland! Sweet.
Oh, my. This is great 😀
THATS the try of the tournament!
This game is ridiculously open.
oh, card coming - shame for the game.
thought that would be red
How was the kiwi wingers try given, foot was clearly on floor in touch and the ball was put down on the line!
Antonio lucky
Just wow…. What a first 25 mins.
I went downstairs for 25 mins to help my daughter cook, missed three tries!