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Wales have plenty of previous for attracting folk who qualify for more than one country.
Not really the same is it, loads of players qualify for far more than one team. We are talking picking players who have played international rugby for other countries.
Which players are these that scotland have picked? I can think of one junior all black ( not full all black)
Not sure what the issue is, tbh.
It's sport. You do everything within the rules to win. I think most international level competitors want to play at international level and I very much doubt their skills are going to be diminished based on which badge they are wearing.
Are you worried they won't work as hard cause they're wearing a blue jersey?
If your argument is that the rule is wrong then your beef is with World Rugby rather than Scotland.
Sorry - missed your post naming the players.
Ruaridh McConnochie - clearly scottish - look at his name. 🙂 Weird pick tho. I have never heard of him and we have plenty of wingers.
Dempsey has earned his place playing for Glasgow.
No I'm not hugely happy about this but its a provision that is there IMO WR mucked this up. It should have been only if you were going from a higher tier to a lower one. At least he is a player who has scottish ancestry and has played for 3 years in Scotland
At 31 he's pushing the prime winger category. As you say not short of wingers.
A lot of England players expressing the wish to play for Tonga. Which is worse going back to tongann team taking places or being poached from tongan team?
Seems a step too far to me.
Not bothered about non Welsh coaches, they are not on the pitch.
Me too, I get its the rules so fair play on Wales for doing it, but its a shit rule.
I don't mind it for tier 2 or below but you should be able to join a senior tier 1 team after playing in another tier 1 team at senior level.
Eg I don't mind if england players go to georgia and then they qualify as a team for tier 1 next year but just skipping over after a 3 year wait is crap.
It should have been only if you were going from a higher tier to a lower one.
100% agree.
fair play on Wales for doing it,
They haven't, Scotland have. It's not a big issue just interesting thing to comment when squads announced.
Wonder what sort of team Gatland will pick.
Changing of the guard 15?
Loopy
Dyer
Grady
Hawkins
Adams
O Williams
T Williams
Faletau
Morgan
Tshinza
Beard
Jenkins
Francis
Owens (captain so no Lake)
Carre
I went and had a look on the rugby forum I am on. No controversy over Dempsey as he has scottish ancestry and has done his time playing in Scotland ie he is committed to Scotland
McConnichie is not well accepted given when he was younger he was offered a place in the Scotland squad and turned it down. I think he is only there for injury cover given our first choice wings are injured leaving us with only a couple of experienced wings but the consensus is that another Scots wing like could have been brought in but the contenders are young and inexperienced.
They haven’t, Scotland have.
Apols, I lost the details...
I went and had a look on the rugby forum I am on.
What's the view on Healy's swift elevation to the Scottish Squad? Munster forum I frequent all wish him well, all of the negative sentiment is to the Province / IRFU for letting him go. I've watched a lot of him for Munster, he has a cannon of a boot and a great pass his limitations seem to be defences don't expect him to run and for a big guy he is an average defender. There had been signs recently that these elements were improving.
Im conflicted basically but at least he has made his choice in early parts of his career. I can't help feeling if he had been made first choice at Munster and / or given a sniff of a Irish callup he would not have moved to Scotland. I don't like being the second best option. He does have a scottish parent IIRC
As an aside why can't Scotland produce fly halves? Ive been following Scots rugby for 50 years and far too much of the time especially since professionalism we just have not had a decent 10
Dan Parks? Phil Godman? Gordon Ross? would any of them have got a game for any other tier one nation? We produce an endless stream of quality back rows and 9s and a good few full backs but 10s? IN that 50 years I can only think of 2 real quality 10s. Rutherford and Russell. Townsend was part great player part donkey. Chalmers was competent but dull. Patterson nearly made it and perhaps would have done with a coaches fullbacking
I honestly don't get this, if he is considered decent by the coaches, then great, you have a new player. End of. What's with all the drama?
Also Dan Parks, not quality? What shyte.
he was not known as desperate Dan for nothing! A good servant to Scottish rugby and persuaded to come out of retirement against his better judgement when he was a real disaster. But would he have been anywhere near another home nations team? the only international class thing he had was his sideburns! Have you got rose tinted glasses on?
You could argue Ireland have only produced one quality 10 in the last 15 years it's just he has gone on for ever. Ulster have Billy Burns at 10, very similar to the Healy situation, he has a fair few caps for Ireland. We have a few now with potential but certainly no one to replace Sexton which is why we are persisting with him even though he will be 38 at the World Cup.
I read that Healy was not even number one at Munster?
Joey Carbury is No 1 at Munster when fit which has been rare enough, he is No 2 for Ireland. Healy was starter for most of last season. This season Jack Crowley has emerged as a decent prospect but mostly starts at 12. Crowley ended up playing for Ireland against the Aussies in November when Sexton withdrew just before kick off. Fans are pretty divided as to who is the best but Munster were very keen to keep Healy its just he wants to play international rugby.
McConnachie is a terrible pic for us, he isn’t an improvement on what we have.But whether he has played for another country or not is a moot point going forward, it is the rules now and we would be daft not to do it. Watch the Vunipola brothers finally play for Wales in 3 years now Borthwick doesn’t fancy them.
I wonder if picking an England cast off was accelerated after Rufus McLean pleading guilty to a catalogue of domestic abuse charges, there is a little less in the way of squad depth because of the timely action of Glasgow and the SRU in suspending him ( prior to what I would hope is a watertight sacking.) That will be McLean off to London Irish no doubt, should fit in fine with Paddy Jackson.
Teej; Townsend and Chalmers were both Lions! GT especially played all over the world for a lot of money.I think you are mixing “quality 10’s” up with “potentially the best in the world at that time.” Which Rutherford and Russell can claim to be.
There cannot have been much choice for the lions then! 🙂
Maybe I'm a bit harsh on the pair of them but the basic point still stands. We seem to struggle to produce 10s. I guess I am scarred but the dross we had for many years.
Irish squad has been announced, fairly settled no Joey Carbery is the big surprise. Keith Earls lucky to make the squad he has been awful since he returned from injury. Like most countries we are stacked with back row choices of a similar enough level but Gavin Coombes has been outstanding recently for Munster offers something a bit different so might be a great bench option. Will probably change after final round of H Cup matches this weekend with injuries and suspensions.
Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 41 caps
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 14 caps
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 7 caps
Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution) 2 caps
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 98 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 23 caps
Mack Hansen (Connacht) 8 caps
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 25 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Marys College) 30 caps
James Lowe (Leinster) 15 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 9 caps
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 100 caps
Jimmy O’Brien (Leinster/Naas) 3 caps
Jamie Osborne (Leinster/Naas) *
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 47 caps
Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College)(captain) 109 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 35 caps
Forwards (20):
Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 8 caps
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 27 caps
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 36 caps
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 33 caps
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster) 2 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 23 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 63 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 121 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 68 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 31 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 18 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 48 caps
Joe McCarthy (Leinster/Dublin University) 1 cap
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 89 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 4 caps
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 48 caps
Cian Prendergast (Connacht/Corinthians) 1 cap
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 48 caps
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 13 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 45 cap
Seems to be a bit of consternation raised by the new rules on tackling below the waist.
amateur game only. But " it will ruin the game " seems to be the cry. When i played many many many years ago we were taught to tackle below the waist. the "choke tackle" seems to have come about from the use it or lose it rules for mauls
However the rule changes have stopped the clothesline or swing arm pretty much. Its rare to see players polaxed nowadays compared to years ago
I have to admit I'm struggling with rugby - having been a lifelong fan and player in my youth. The issues being suffered by players - many of whom are younger than me - are making it harder to justify continuing to support the sport. Will the new tackle rules help? Possibly, certainly get some rebalancing of player sizing in the backs as smaller more agile players will be harder to tackle. Whether it will eliminate the problem, who knows. And it's amateur game only as TJ says.
The problem is that the effect of any changes will take decades to play through. Is there any evidence that the existing new concussion protocols are having any effect. What is the evidence about whether long term cognitive issues and early onset dementia be caused by a series of spaced out incidents making the recent changes on assessment and compulsory recovery periods less effective?
Anyway - I will carry on watching for the the time being but would really like to see proper independent and evidence based assessment of the the various new protocols.
I think the game will have to change a lot or will die.
Great win for Ospreys again!
Unbelievable effort!
Ospreys match was excellent
Ospreys seem to have found a tough edge this year and are fighting hard to the end of games. Good to see as strong welsh sides are needed
Edinburgh meanwhile seem to have forgotten Cockerills kick up the arse and gone back to being softies
I thought the French ref an absolute knob until he carried on being a knob and gave the try at the end 😄😄😄😄
The one he disallowed just before he said he saw grounding so the tmo needed conclusive evidence of no try which there wasn't but he didn't give it, the one he gave he saw nothing so tmo needed conclusive evidence of a try which there clearly wasn't despite it being clear Morgan must of scored so he gave that one. Leicester fans will be fuming.
Wales 7 competition is massive, Reffel got about 240 000 turnovers, Tipuric was Tipuric and Jac Morgan was immense with ball in hand. One of them is unlikely to even bench for Wales if all stay fit. Massive downer that Lake got broken again though.
Edinburgh get Sarries again today. With half the team or more broken. A win gets us a home QF but it hardly seems likely
1.45min in for the try, interesting hearing Healey say it's a try there's the ball...I can't see it!! I watched live on S4c so didn't know what they were saying...still no idea how that was given and not the one at around 1.28 on vid
Salaries losing to the worst professional team in Scotlands 2xv. Despite Leiths version of Private Fraser forecasting otherwise!
🙂
Classic Edinburgh tho - a point short of of a home tie in the next round
Sarries are a dirty cheating bunch.
Anyone else spot this?
https://twitter.com/ek_rugby/status/1617206769578639360?s=20
Not sure how those yellow cards weren't red. Only mitigation I can see is "passive" tackle. But even that's reaching as both players come forward to make the tackle.
Oh other mitigation is they are international players and 6N is coming up.
George's concussion protocols need looked at.
Is it time we reviewed the number of English and french clubs in the european cups? they don't seem to be bringing much quality. 😉
But they bring money, as in stadia filling power.
Just finished watching the Tigers v Ospreys game. Absolute cracker.
Ospreys have a really strong team when everyone plays, watched them play a really strong Leinster team earlier in the month and they should have beaten them.
Ospreys have a really strong team when everyone plays,
They gave a very strong pack with good forward options on the bench, the backs are poor though. But packs win games or at least put you in a position to win them. Owen Williams has been an excellent signing though.
Any recommendations on where to watch the eng Vs Scotland game in Edinburgh city centre? There'll be 9 English not rowdy interlopers after a decent pub.
I was trying to think of somewhere to send you that would be "interesting" for an england fan.I couldn't do that tho as it might be slightly unfair.
Perhaps the cask and barrel? https://www.caskandbarrelbroughton.co.uk/
You might get a wider audience and more suggestions with a general post. Not many folk read this thread now I think
Thanks @tjagain - that should be grand for us, I appreciate you not sending us into the lions den!
There may be better but thats the only one I know of. IIRC it gets very busy - get in early
I appreciate you not sending us into the lions den!
I was the only English bloke at the Celtic Manor during a 5N Wales v England game once. Despite the "bantz" I had the best time with the Welsh supporters, and many a free beer! Its quite usual for Rugby, this isn't football.
Hamilton's down in Stockbridge used to show them with pies at half time.
It may not be there any more.
We've watched it here a few times - good atmosphere & music after the match
@55.9487633,-3.1864655,3a,75y,313.14h,103.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQSf8vWfHZmEiwjhvBPtl4Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DQSf8vWfHZmEiwjhvBPtl4Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D204.85104%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1">Bannermans bar
A week out from Six Nations starting what teams we expecting?
Wales...who knows, Gats loves em big so I reckon
Liam (no form but no other realistic option)
Cuthbert
North
No idea Probably Tompkins
Adams
Biggar
Tomos Williams
Faletau
Jac Morgan
Tshiunza
Beard
No idea (Probably the ghost of AWJ past)
Francis
Owens
Thomas
Lewis
a n other hooker
Carre
Rhys Davies (presuming AWJ starts)
Wainwright
Tipuric
Hardy
Owen Williams
I think he'll be seriously tempted by a six 2 bench.
I’m not anticipating England, I’ll wait and see what happens. I am concerned that we have all those form players and will be starting with Youngs, Smith, Farrel and Slade out back.
My hope is we can get a foothold on Scotland and switch things up in the second half to bring Lawrence into the centre, and some of they young flyers out on the wings. However, let’s see what fit a state as a team we are first, I reckon it’ll be a very close game if not possibly a loss.
I've watched home games vs England in Wales and Scotland and never had an issue. It is rugby not football.
Agree Kryters, we are screwed.
If there one thing Tigers fans learnt while Borthwick was there, was never try and guess what team he's gonna put out. We never got it right.
Recent history says Scotland will win! We have your number boys 🙂
Somehow I doubt it tho this year. I think It will be a stuffing ie 25pt win to England. I think Borthwick will revitalise England and we have too many injuries to critical players. No Ryan Wilson to wind up Farrell either
A week out from Six Nations starting what teams we expecting?
Wales…who knows, Gats loves em big so I reckonLiam (no form but no other realistic option)
I must say I'm surprised to see 1/2p named at full back unless Gatland is playing games and naming a dummy team early to have Ireland spend a wasted week analysing the wrong lineup
Gatland playing mind games? Nah, that would never happen.
Given I do not recognise 50% of the 29 in the England squad, my reaction to the Wales squad published today is one of fear. Gatland is the man to make humble the rest of us.
Again - we are screwed.
I must say I’m surprised to see 1/2p
Me too.
Expect Wales to kick a lot and then kick some more and defend like madmen and hope we can sneak a win. Can't see it working but we can hope.
I think a few players like Tompkins,Tshinza and Reffel have been hampered by not being with the squad as they had to be with clubs last week.
That Wales team must be closed to their record for total international caps fielded in one team.
Gatland has had pretty decent success against Ireland so lots of us here are pretty worried.
Ireland are basically just a slightly better Leinster and now Wales are a beefed up Ospreys. Could well be very close.
The other thing to expect from a team that Borthwick has only had a short time to sort and his hands heavily tied with what squad changes he could make (like when he arrived at Tigers) is initially expect a simple forwards based game plan. Scrum, lineout and maul. And a lot of kicking the leather off the ball.
(It took him 6 months to a year to get Tigers to where he wanted them, cleared out the lazy and the dead wood, etc, before there was much attacking play).
This however could be the 1st England team I can actually get behind in about a decade. (Just wish they'd sack off the dullard Farrell who's stifled England for the same decade).
Why kicking the leather off the ball works. Always make time for a bit of Squidge.
Reffel is a great player for Leicester
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64488231
Thats a travesty IMO, and if thats gone, Swing Low should have gone way before it, and yes that has been sung by a choir / singer.
England squad for Sat.
Starting
15. Freddie Steward
14. Max Malins
13. Joe Marchant
12. Owen Farrell (C)
10. Marcus Smith
1. Ellis Genge (VC)
2. Jamie George
4. Maro Itoje
6. Lewis Ludlam
7. Ben Curry
Replacements
16. Jack Walker
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Dan Cole
19. Nick Isiekwe
20. Ben Earl
21. Ben Youngs
22. Ollie Lawrence
23. Anthony Watson
Irish team out also, Furlong injured. Front row looks vulnerable, Dan Sheehan is excellent around the park but very tall for a hooker. In the backs Stuart McCloskey starts with Aki on bench which is good to see, form being rewarded. Aki also worries me every time he goes into contact he is a fraction away from a red!
For Wales as expected Halfpenny out and Loopy Liam in!
Given the madness in coaching and injuries across the board, the whole thing is wide open.
Prior to the coaching changes I would have said Ireland or France for the title, with England down the bottom near Italy. However with Gatland coming on the scene I would elevate Wales chances to defo be in the top 2 spots.
England still down the bottom.
I think England will beat Scotland, Italy and a close call with Wales.
There I said it.
close call with Wales
But which way?
I think England will beat Scotland, Italy and a close call with Wales.
I will take your optimism. I actually think the game we will most likely win will be Scotland, only because it is the first game, and we will be full of naïve enthusiasm of a new squad anxious to prove their worth.
I fully expect to get beaten, nay shocked, by Italy, Capuozzo is a genius and we will find it impossible to contain him..
And it’s at Twickers.
I think the 1H will be conservative with Farrell aiming to play the game in the Scots half and the forwards as battering rams. I think the think in H2 the subs come in and there’s enough size and pace in the back line to score tries and win after the Scot’s have softened*
*My optimistic view of things. Of course that can all be thwarted by Youngs coming on and kicking the ball away and Smith going off in favour of a centre. Farrell won’t go off, he’s Captain. Oh, and Scotland turning up and playing well.
Scotland would struggle to cope with that back 3 but it'll be 80s English rugby. Centres crash it up into contact.
England V Scotland U20s is a cracker, England will edge it but a very good game
Well, here we are 😀.
The last few years I’ve made my predictions early and felt fairly confident in them, but this year I have no idea what might happen.
I think Ireland should go into the tournament as favourites. Whilst I think France are the strongest team, Ireland are seriously good and have the more favourable schedule - playing both France and England at home.
I do not have the confidence that a lot of Wales fans have now that Gatland has returned. I did fear that Wales might have potentially lost all their games this year had Pivac still been coach. But I still can’t see us finishing anything better than 5th or 6th.
Wales have a 20-25% chance today I’d say.
England favourites today, in large part due to home advantage. How well England and Scotland will play today, I have no idea.
Red cards could play a large part throughout the tournament. My prediction:
Ireland
France
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
England favourites today, in large part due to home advantage.
Judging by the social media they are wound up to the eyeballs. I hope we don't see a shouty Itoje and I think Gauss you are probably right about the reds. I didnt realise how big a winger Ollie HC is. **** me, 6'4 and 16 stone with Steward very similar. I do think Scotland are a bit more Cannie(?) in the backs and will exploit that area.
I’ve not seen the Scotland team for today. iirc Darcy Graham isn’t fit to play - I think they will miss him. He has turned into the player tj used to swoon over. Who is their replacement on the wing?
Steyn.is the replacement winger some selection surprises as ever but looks like the form picks
1) Schoe
2)Turner
3) Nel
4)R Gray
5) Gilchrist
6) Ritchie
7) Crosbie
8) Dempsey
9) White
10) Russell
11) VDM
12) Jones
13) Tuipulotu
14) Steyn
15) Hogg
Bench
Bhatti, Brown, Fagerson Sr, Gray Jr, Dempsey, Horne, Blairhorn, Harris
Im looking forward to Tuipulotu running thru Farrell.
Im looking forward to Tuipulotu running thru Farrell.
Surely Farrell has seen it all before?
Who’s White?
White - plays for London Irish - decent young SH. Big call leaving Price out.
Hairs standing on back of neck time. I'm English, but by crikey do the Welsh do a smashing anthem (Ireland aren't bad either).
Edit: in the interests of fairness and transparency, Scotland are quite good too. Oh, and I'm an 1/8 Welsh 🤣🤣