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Just do what RFU have done. You only play for England if you play in England, but we reserve the right to change that steadfast rule if we want.
Just do what RFU have done
Which is fine if you have a club structure that can pay competitive salaries.
we reserve the right to change that steadfast rule if we want.
Who have they broke that for?
Willis, basically any wasp or warrior who's gone abroad and might be good enough.
I think that's a fair enough exception
I think the whole concept of you can only play for a country if you play in that country is stupid. Players develop and improve if they are exposed to wider experiences, it stops your teams getting clogged up with aging internationals and allows space for youth to come thru.
I think its a large part of the issues in Wales. they pay too much to keep the stars in wales and leaves not enough money for a wider squad.
There is a long list of Scots players who became better in the mid part of their careers for moving outside of Scotland. Russell, Both Gray brothers, Redpath, Hogg, etc etc and these guys moving on allowed yoth to come thru - S Cummings, Horne jn, etc etc
Willis, basically any wasp or warrior who’s gone abroad and might be good enough.
Thats only for this season I think.
You've then got LRZ and Tommy Reffel being allowed to stay at Gloucs and Tigers as they've signed open ended rolling contracts (apparently). Even Gatland doesn't like his own rule!
You’ve then got LRZ and Tommy Reffel being allowed to stay at Gloucs and Tigers as they’ve signed open ended rolling contracts (apparently
Francis it was who did that, got rumbled eventually.
LRZ, Reffell, Jenkins, Tshiunza etc have not been offered contracts in Wales. I expect as no Welsh regions are offering anyone a contract at the moment they will be pretty safe and see it as time to renew
it stops your teams getting clogged up with aging internationals and allows space for youth to come thru.
I think its a large part of the issues in Wales.
You have said this before but I don't agree. Losing all the top Welsh talent from Wales wouldn't mean we could pick up similar foreigners as the WRU pays part of the Welsh players wages. The Scottish system with just two club sides means it's a very different system. The Scottish club sides are pretty decent and still no one goes to see them play. The only Welsh games that are well attended in the URC are the derbies, lose them and the game dies a bit more.
The Scottish club sides are pretty decent and still no one goes to see them play.
Errmmm - both are sellouts or near sellouts every game. Glasgow have outgrown Scotstoon attendences are up
Gallagher prem is a good sized league but if all the England players "have" to play in it then the style of play becomes limited. Some good English club sides look pedestrian against what should be lesser teams because the style of play they are used to is prem play. It may be the national sides problem too.
From behind the Times paywall
Players feel shafted – I support a strike and would not have signed this deal
I stand with every player in Wales, not only the top Test stars – this is not far off blackmail by the WRU
Sam Warburton
Wednesday February 15 2023, 5.00pm, The Times
Wales’s poor performances in the first two Six Nations matches against Ireland and Scotland make more sense now. The players have clearly been distracted by the row about contracts, with the Welsh Rugby Union and the four regions unable to agree on a financial model, as the proposed standardised contracts on offer are significantly reduced from those given before.
The players clearly do not feel valued by the WRU and that has affected their performances on the field, and I can see why. I would be the same. They will be thinking: “Why are we busting our guts and putting our bodies on the line just to line other people’s pockets when we are expected to take paycuts?”
I know from speaking to some of them this week that this issue has been really bugging the Wales players, and the feeling is so strong that the threat to strike is very real. They feel like they are, for want of a better expression, being shafted. So, I totally support the players and their threat to strike should some sensible agreement not be reached. If I was still playing, I would not sign these new contracts.
There will obviously be people who say that they would play for Wales for free, and they will scoff at players suddenly earning £280,000 rather than £400,000, and I understand what they are saying, but there is a principle at stake here.
This is not just about the top players. It is actually more about the second or third-choice regional players on £50,000 who have families and mortgages and do not know whether they will have a contract at the end of the season or not. The international players will probably be fine, even if they are not on wages that are necessarily their market value, but they are only about 10 to 20 per cent of the total players in Wales; it is the others that are in danger here.
It needs to be stressed that Wales’s players are not overpaid. The contracts they have are in line with the other countries. They know that, under the new proposals, on average they will probably be on 30 per cent less than their English, Irish and Scottish counterparts.
A big gripe is that only 80 per cent of the contract will be guaranteed, with the rest being based on bonuses for winning. The players feel that, because the overall budget is being reduced significantly, the chances of winning are naturally going to be much slimmer.
They feel like they are being asked to put pen to paper on contracts that are bound to be 30 or 40 per cent down on those they have now. And they are pretty miffed that none of the coaches or staff (at the regions or the WRU) are going to be on this type of contract.
“Why is it just us?” they are quite rightly asking. They have already taken a hit after Covid and you can understand their frustration when they hear that apparently a lot of the money the WRU received from CVC has been used for capital projects and not invested immediately in the professional game.
My feeling is that the WRU almost want to drive the regions into administration, so they can take them over (they already own Dragons). I know for certain that last month, if it hadn’t been for the generosity of the long-term benefactor Peter Thomas, in helping pay players and staff, Cardiff would have followed Wasps and Worcester Warriors into administration. I’m also pretty sure that at least one of the other regions has been in the same boat and has been similarly saved in the short term.
The regions are trying to live off money from an old agreement with the WRU because the money from the new agreement hasn’t come through, even though they are supposed to be in year one of it. They simply can’t cope. The hope is that the new chairman and interim chief executive, Ieuan Evans and Nigel Walker, change the WRU’s stance quickly and try to help the regions, but if they don’t, then I fear that we could see all the regions fold and have to be taken over by the WRU.
That is where the threat of a strike for the England match causes a bit of a dilemma. The England game is the biggest money-maker of all the games played in Cardiff and not having it would cripple the WRU, and that would almost certainly send the regions into immediate administration. So will the players actually be achieving anything by striking?
When I was a player in 2011, we threatened to strike. But that was for World Cup warm-up games, and therefore nowhere near the profile and value of this Six Nations clash against England.
It was just before I was made captain and we had meetings with the chief executive and financial officer of the WRU during a training camp in Poland. I was on the leadership group as the young player and I found it all really awkward. But that was about what we were getting paid to play for Wales, not general contracts across the board, as it is now.
This is also where the debate about the 60-cap rule is interesting. I actually think Warren Gatland would like it to go, but, if it does, I think there will be an exodus of players, probably the biggest number we have ever seen go at one time. My view is that it is a good rule as long as the players are paid fairly in Wales. To have it in place and then offer these contracts is plain wrong. It is almost as if the players are being blackmailed to stay.
If the new salary cap is going to be £4.5 million per region, which is some £3 million less than some regions are receiving now (they all receive different amounts according to a number of performance criteria), then surely the 60-cap rule should be abolished. How can the regions keep all their players when, for example, I know that at the moment Cardiff only have £400,000 left in their budget for next season for 15 players? Either your squad is going to be very small or it is going to be full of very cheap, under-par players!
Players are soon going to ask the question: “What is more important? Looking after my family or staying in Wales to play for my country?”
This has been a long-running battle in many different guises. I once nearly went to Toulon before I became the first player to sign a dual contract (with the WRU and the then Cardiff Blues).
I had made an agreement with Gatland. He had sat me down and said: “What do you think your market value is?” I was a bit taken aback by the directness of the question, but I told him, and, almost to my surprise, he agreed with it.
But that figure also had to be agreed by the WRU and my agent eventually had to put a deadline to them, saying that if we didn’t get agreement by that time I would have to leave because my other offers would be taken off the table. It wasn’t until the very last moment that the WRU agreed, so for about 12 hours I thought I was going to Toulon. I actually remember ringing my wife and saying that we were going to France.
This is different. This is a collective angle, and it is about the players who earn much less. That is why I support the strike.
Antonio given three match ban for high tackle that should have been a red
The player admitted that he had committed an act of foul play worthy of a red card," a Six Nations statement read.
"Having reviewed all the evidence, the committee accepted the player's admission that the tackle on Ireland number two was foul play.
"His shoulder made contact with Ireland number two's neck/face as described in the citing commissioner's report, and therefore reached the red-card threshold."
What a strange place I find myself in as a Scotland fan 
We are playing well, we have a settled side, we have no obvious weak points, we have strength in depth, we are playing attractive rugby, 5th in the world rankings
It can only mean one thing - We are doomed!
I'm just enjoying this while it lasts.
My Scotland predictions for the rest of the year:
- Beat either France or Ireland, go into Italy game needing to beat them by 5 points to win 6Ns. Beat them by 2.
- Go out in group stages of WC having almost beaten both Ireland and South Africa
- Franco Smith appointed as Scotland head coach. Work experience kid from local school appointed Glasgow head coach
- Finish 5th in 2024 6Ns (Wales still on strike)
Work experience kid from local school appointed Glasgow head coach
Still beat the posh lads.
Long read, but the home nations different approaches and pay scales.
England players are contracted by their clubs, with the best paid receiving in excess of £750,000 a year, while also receiving international payments. The England players, however, are under the most duress because of the competing demands of club and country, which means safeguarding rules such as enforced rest periods are routinely broken.
Senior Wales players such as Alun Wyn Jones are on dual contracts, with the WRU paying up to 80 per cent of their salaries, which can be about £400,000 per year. Most regional players are on substantially less and could earn a higher basic wage by leaving Wales — although aspiring international players would have to forego a Test career to do so.
Ireland benefit from the most joined-up approach in the Six Nations, with the provinces and national team working in synergy. Johnny Sexton came into the championship having played around half the minutes of Romain Ntamack, his opposite number for France. However, the contracts can be a reflection of the financial strength of the province. Munster are not flush and so Conor Murray and Peter O’Mahony are on national deals. Leinster’s budget would compare with the biggest in Europe and so Caelan Doris and Josh van der Flier, the world player of the year, have just been promoted to central deals.
Scotland
Every professional player for Glasgow and Edinburgh is contracted to the SRU, which operates different pay bands based on experience. There was a cap of around £350,000 for the best players but that is thought to have gone up to around £400,000, which would match what some England players earn in the Premiership.
England players are contracted by their clubs, with the best paid receiving in excess of £750,000 a year, while also receiving international payments
This is a bit misleading as probably only Itoji and Farrell are on that kind of money (maybe one or two other Saracens players, Vunipola's). Certainly none of the Tigers lads get paid that much. Last season Ford and Genge were our (Tigers) top earners at around 500k each I think. Both apparently took wage cuts to move to Sale and Bristol.
Most of the England lads would be on club salaries of 2-400k I reckon. If Tigers are anything to go by. From what I've read on the Tigers forum.
International payments were reduced to 17.5k from 25k a year or so ago as well I think.
Reckon the Wales players will go on strike? Got a ticket to the match but feels a bit grubby supporting the WRU rather than the team, so not sure I’d be gutted if they went ahead and walked out TBH.
Strike for this game would be catastrophic for Welsh rugby, loss of revenue is supposedly £9 million. I can't see how that helps the players in the long run. Solution is to lose a region or just join forces with the Premiership. You then have a chance of decent away attendances at home games. Hugely detrimental for URC but probably slightly less so than it was before SA teams joined.
or just join forces with the Premiershi
That ship sailed decades ago. The prem clubs would never allow it
I can’t see how that helps the players in the long run.
It makes the WRU realise who holds the cards.
The WRU want performance related pay scales whilst slashing the budgets of the regions that are already unable to compete...you would have to be crazy to sign up to that
You realise when they get this sorted out, Wales will hammer England now?
Its just a forgone conclusion at this stage.
Amazing interview with Henson in the Times today. There are even pictures of him AA.
Its just a forgone conclusion at this stage.
A close game IMO. England to.... win.
I read the Hensen interview...have seen the pics though 😟
Haven't seen pics that should say
A close game IMO. England to…. win.
Well I think Wales were a much bigger handful for Scotland than we were. Lets hope we are better and they are worse...
Interested on what you would recommend AA as a sustainable structure for rugby in Wales?
Scotland option with 2 teams which are well funded and competitive at URC level and scrap the 60 cap rule?
They seem to be able to afford to retain most of their squad at home with the exception of the real superstars like Russell.
Interested on what you would recommend AA as a sustainable structure for rugby in Wales?
I have no idea, I don't think any structure will be sustainable when the regions are playing games no one wants to watch.
The 60 cap rule is now 25
The 60 cap rule is now 25
A shame for Will Rowlands on 23 caps. Hopefully they will consider individual cases and make allowances, considering the shit show the WRU they’ve overseen/created.
On the plus side Cory Hill, Jake Ball and Hadleigh Parkes are now available for Saturday!!
I think Rowlands doesn't leave till after world cup so should be fine.
https://ibb.co/6y74Smm
It’s been a long week, explain this to me; So LRZ is no longer eligible to play for Wales becuase he doesn’t play for a domestic team and has less than 25 caps?
Zammit, Tshiunza, Jenkins etc are eligible due to never having been offered a contract by a Welsh region
Ahah. So its if they move away from a welsh region before 25 caps has been achieved....
I think Rowlands doesn’t leave till after world cup so should be fine.
Apparently his French contract starts before the world cup...and he's injured so is unlikely to play for Wales before that.
Tho you'd think if Gatland really wants him he could name him on the bench for a couple WC warm up games and have him come on for the last minute 😁
England squad. Good to see Lawes back. Thats a positive.
15. Freddie Steward
14. Max Malins
13. Henry Slade
12. Ollie Lawrence
11. Anthony Watson
10. Owen Farrell (C)
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Ellis Genge
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Ollie Chessum
6. Lewis Ludlam
7. Jack Willis
8. Alex Dombrandt
Replacements
16. Jack Walker
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Dan Cole
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Ben Curry
21. Alex Mitchell
22. Marcus Smith
23. Henry Arundell
As a fully paid up member of the the Grady fan club I may now watch the game....
Wales: Halfpenny; Adams, Grady, Hawkins, Rees-Zammit; O Williams, T Williams; G Thomas, Owens (capt), Francis, Beard, AW Jones, Tshiunza, Tipuric, Faletau.
Replacements: Roberts, Carre, Lewis, Jenkins, Reffell, Hardy, Biggar, Tompkins
England by 25
That 10, 12, 13 could be brilliant or they could all get cards.
Just watched sharks saints from last weekend. Two take aways for me. 1st sharks need to work on tackle height/technique lucky not to finish with 12 or 11 players.
2nd why in the name of all that is sacred was Ford not immediately withdrawn from play. He appeared to be unconscious having chinned the ball while falling face first.
Scotland - Watson back is the big news Price onto the bench
There are no excuses now. Scotland have to beat at least one of France and Ireland. We are coming off two wins, Settled squad and coach. Are they good enough? Dare I hope?
Now TJ. You should know that it’s the hope that gets you! To start the morning with the butterflies that it could go well. The anticipation before kick off. The battling performance but either, never quite being in the game or losing narrowly at the end. The bitterness of those hopes weighing on you afterwards ‘Why did I hope?’
The life of a Scotland rugby fan.
🙂
I hate it when our game is the Sunday game. Throws off the whole rhythm of my weekend.
I'll be grinding my teeth well before kick-off time #lifeofaScotlandfan
Don't be daft, you lot will be enjoying a wee dram tonight after Farrell finally gets a red and Wales squeak a win. Your weekend is well set.
and Wales squeak a win
I think England would be clear favourites in this game, even without all the turmoil surrounding Welsh rugby this week. However, I do think there's a 5% chance that everything will click, that the young players will all have a great game due to their 'lack of fear' and Wales win by 20+ points. For now I am clinging onto that 5% chance 😃
Predictions everyone?
I will aggregate and analyse all predictions and arbitrarily declare myself the winner after the FRASCO game tomorrow.
For added spice, please declare whether you think each side will get a BP. 😀
ITA (0) IRE (1) : IRE by 15-20
WAL (0) ENG (1) : WAL by 3-6
FRA (1) SCO (0) : FRA by 10-15
EDIT: Scores as follows
Correct result: 2
Correct Spread (max 5): 3
Correct BP Prediction: 2 per correct answer.
WAL by 3-6
Can't see it, Gatland has essentially thrown this 6Nations to develop for the world cup.
Can’t see it
You predicting a Wales loss? There’s a turn-up a_a 😀
Anyway, can you throw in some predictions for the games? Go on, go on, go on, go on…
Italy v Ireland: Ireland by 20+
Wales v England: England by ~10
France v Scotland: France by ~10
But, if prayer has any power, Wales by 19
ITA (0) IRE (1) : IRE by 10-15
WAL (1) ENG (1) : WAL by 3-6
FRA (1) SCO (0) : FRA by 15-20
I have put a tenner on Wales to win at 5-2.
If England win, well its cost me 10quid. Big deal.
If we lose I'll get 35quid back to mop up my tears. Happy days.
Ireland by 15
England by 10
Scotland by one point Try in the 84th minute by Huwipolotu
Gauss and tj, can you read?
Nope 🙂
It seems not. Must some of your habits affecting your eyesight. 🤣😂🤣
Automatic zero points to TeeJ for invalid entry.
And Gauss.
Apologies.
Italy (0) v Ireland(1): Italy 15: 32 Ireland
Wales(0) v England(0): Wales 14 : 22 England
France(0) v Scotland(0): Scotland 18 : 29 France
Red cards aside, I cannot see Italy winning today.
However, being a big fan of the underdog: c'mon Italy, Wales and Scotland!!
Well done Italy!
Good try.
This is like Basketball.
Nice first half. However, after losing to England today, the thought of Wales having to win in Italy is depressing.
You predicting a Wales loss? There’s a turn-up a_a
Lost our last 5 games including V Georgia at home,. You would have to be more than a little mad to think Wales will win today. It's not beyond all hope but it does seem unlikely
C’mon Italy 🇮🇹
Is it just me or is the commentary a second ahead of the play?
Not just you, he just said pen to Italy before the ref said who it was for
Slightly concerning at times but job done by the number 1 side in the world. Should have been by more. 😀
Shame Watson is back for England. He's quality
Shame Watson is back for England. He’s quality
pure class.
Time for LRZ to step up today. Adams is super reliable imho. Grady, Tshiunza and Hawkins to produce moments of joy and hope. Along with 1/2p reminding us of what he can still do. 🤞🤞🤞🤞
I have my rugby sofa acquired on the cheap, because Scotland fans don’t need them anymore, and am about to get safely and firmly behind it!
Yikes! Why do I have to listen to Pivac?!!
Good luck boys.
Come on Wales!
I’m generally neutral till I see them singing God Save The King, at which point they can **** off. 😂
got to ten mins without being behind!!
Just thought, shit Williams kicking is poor, then remembered 1/2p was playing!
England are so much the “nearly”team at the moment. 1/2p is going to aching in the morning, Englands kick chase is very good.
But “Nearly” isnt good enough.
Kryters, agree.
Wales are flattering England. Wales with no ruck support, the kicking is crap but a bit forgivable as both Steward and Malins are deadly, at least Englands defence seems better, but this is a quite a crap game from both sides.
The danger here is that Wales are much more likely to suddenly wake up, eg that 15 phase attack looked good, and we know England seem to trot along at the same pace.
I still think this is Wales game to lose.
Can't believe it took 37 mins for Wales to get into the England 22.
And then gave away penalties, twice. 🙄
And it seems v odd having Pivac as a pundit
Is that Pivac? And Johnson, at least he was a very good player....
Aaaaaand there you go. Sleepy England as usual.
If I was English I'd be quite annoyed
bah, LRZ well deserved try if you ask me.