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Final should be good at least
And the commentators still only talking about England… It’s the disrespect that really annoys me
Who do you think SA commentators are talking about?
One point. Ah, man, thats painful.
Ahhhhhh, what a way to go out! <br /><br />
Never good to lose, but England did better than anyone expected. <br /><br />
At least one STW miseryguts might have cheered up a bit
Well played South Africa
Who do you think SA commentators are talking about?
I haven't listened to them but I do listen to the other home nations commentators on their matches talking fairly about the game that's being played rather than cheering their side like this lot do.
Anyway, England were a lot better this game than before. And it's always hard to lose like that.
Exciting finish to an awful game. I feel sorry for England, thought they were marginally the better side.
I haven’t listened to them but I do listen to the other home nations commentators on their matches talking fairly about the game that’s being played rather than cheering their side like this lot do
🤣🙄
England first half tactics the same as second half, kick and hope to force errors, then the crumbling scrum and absolutely no ball handling or creativity. Yeah it was wet, but isn't the normal season through winter when it usually rains lots anyway. That throw in from George should be the meme for the game.
I've been watching Irish TV for this game. It's nuanced and balanced. The commentators aren't unbiased but they're commentators instead of cheerleaders. Ben O'Keefe is getting slated right now by the studio pundits.
We made that game difficult for SA, but silly mistakes cost us.
And the commentators still only talking about England… It’s the disrespect that really annoys me
Odd as I heard mention SA loads.
in the spirit of this thread, whinging about little decisions etc… not sure if they’ll show it but SA’s try - previous ball carrier was tackled and got back to his feet… should’ve been a pen to England! 😂
n the spirit of this thread, whinging about little decisions etc… not sure if they’ll show it but SA’s try – previous ball carrier was tackled and got back to his feet… should’ve been a pen to England
Just seen that mentioned on another forum. 🤬
So, who’s going to win the big one then?
SA have been better all tournament, but I never bet against the All Blacks
As soon as faf comes on it's generally over for the opposite team.
Cannot believe it's taken this long for the refs to have enough of the water carrying tactics.
not sure if they’ll show it but SA’s try – previous ball carrier was tackled and got back to his feet… should’ve been a pen to England!
Think of it as karma for Itoje tacking a player while lying on the floor in the England 22.
Ben O'Keefe had another shocker but I can't tell which team it favoured overall.
Ben O’Keefe had another shocker but I can’t tell which team it favoured overall
Definitely SA! 😉
The AB’s will win. Easier match this week vs 2 tough games for SA more recovery and they’ve watch SA’s issues unravel the team. <br /><br />
Incidentally, first game I've seen in I don't know how long that had no input from the TMO. Like nothing.
I Ben O'Keefe favoured England in the first half with a couple of mistaken penalties awarded, and SA in the second half when he clearly decided the Bokke scrum was on top and started looking for English infringements.
Incidentally, first game I’ve seen in I don’t know how long that had no input from the TMO. Like nothing.
Good point, but I suspect that was because essentially nothing happened for most of it.
The TMO will have seen those Siya Kolisi and PSdT calls in the first half and died a little inside. That said, there was very little to refer to him: few try opportunities; no foul play referrals.
England way better than expected, not sure either team threatened with ball in hand so not just an English problem. England didn’t manage the game well second half, Koch massively on angle in scrum but shouldn’t be scrumming in that part of field.
England don’t deserve to be in final but all you can ask of your team is to play with pride passion and fight, be nice to play with style too but this is a World Cup. They did first bit with little style but weren’t good enough fair play to SA, can’t blame the commentators for the team though.
The final will be very interesting with S. Africa having slight edge over NZ.
Looking at it it was a big mistake by Steward (who had a good game otherwise) to kick the ball too short so that it landed in an area where SA had a scrum from the knock on within penalty range. If he’d only kicked it long it probably wouldn’t have mattered.
Correct
As a Welsh man, living in Wales with my Welsh family....the commentary is not less biased here than what ITV is towards the English.
Well done Emgland, really enjoyed that game. They were so focused, made for a great game. And as a neutral I absolutely loved it. I'm really looking forward to the final now.
England battled really hard this was a brave performance from a team that had a good game plan. In the end I say South Africa were just a bit better. Their early changes in the second half were the key, their scrum became dominant , and England conceded crucial penalties. Although England got an easy run to the latter stages of the world cup I think some of the criticism they got in the earlier part of the year may have been ott,
Usual mince spouted on here as usual. Commentary was as per every other game ITV ever broadcast.
Ben O'Keefe had a good game. Game changer was the front row changes, England's didn't pan out and Jamie George had to play the full 80 despite being dead on his feet after 60 mins.
O'Keefe favoured the SA scrum towards the because they were destroying England.
I have NZ as slight favourites for the title. Can't really be too disappointed with the result tonight, I genuinely though that we'd lose by 20+.
It looks like the big games wore SA out, the speed of the France game was lacking and England were able to drag them into an arm wrestle. Englands best performance of 2023 wasn’t enough against a team that had bested Scotland, France and NZ in the last odd month, no shame in that.Lots of slagging of the ref online and in the English press with the current narrative being that the SA scrum wasn’t dominant but just cheating, but it isn’t like you haven’t known what was coming for 4 years, is it? Hopefully NZ will run the legs off them and their vile coaching team. Also; crusader outfits…bit tone deaf maybe?
The SA scrum was cheating, it was plain to see - both SA props we’re in at angles after the initial shove. But when it’s as dominant as that it’s very hard to tell whether it’s deliberate or just becuase the English props were collapsing. Vunipola was a massive liability, he’s gone downhill quickly - poor hands and slow/out of place for the SA try.
i was curious about the early changes for SA but now realise it’s becuase Rassie saw the need/timing for scrum dominance and reliable longer range kick penalties. He timed it perfectly to remove Marler and Cole and bring the weaker props onto the field.
Anyway, slightly under the obvious radar Courtney Lawes was immense and pretty much left the field in pieces, thats at least one retirement announcement I’m expecting before Christmas. Out of the whole team it’s him that commands my greatest respect.
The makings of a great England team to come. Lawes will be missed Billy not so much. Steward back to 15. I'd start with other things too. Take the rose on the tracksuits back to red.
SA weren't able to play their game but a very good team will overcome that and they did.
Gutted for them - having seen their game in Marseille it was actually tactically a brilliant game by England.
Last nights game tactically started brilliant if not the prettiest of rugby
IMO it’s the scrum changes the lost the game, but could Marler have kept going. Sinclair has been a liability all tournament
All Blacks will win, SA had tired legs last night
The irony meter broke last night when the panel said NZ had an easier route to the final than SA.
Jamie George had to play the full 80 despite being dead on his feet after 60 mins
He didn't have to. Dan was still on the bench and only came on to break up the fight at the end. Can't imagine why he was unused.
I further can't imagine why Sinckler is still used...
Yeah, Sinckler really doesn’t seem strong enough compared to the other international props.
All Blacks have peaked at the right time. I’m not a predictor, but can’t see them losing against that SA side, especially with the panicky subbing “tactics” they had yesterday.
The 'boks didn't like the wet conditions, or they just suddenly acquired butterfingers. They may stand a better chance in the dry.
Yeah, Sinckler really doesn’t seem strong enough compared to the other international props.
He is / was. He’s very broken and has been for some time also have a Pec injury right before the training camp, but still capable of competing against the best. You seemed to have missed that Genge caused two of the four pens. It was in commentary, Sinkler actually drove Ox Nche twice, but the bad look and overall driving iof the Boks who’d won the ref meant Genge got pinged on the other side . Plus, that’s the biggest, heaviest and best front row in the world, they’ve beaten more and better than Sinckler.
Having said that with perhaps 20 mins of international play left in him and plays with more strapping than kit, he’s probably another to retire after next week.
Sinkler is only 30 reaching his peak in prop terms
Dan Cole got a mullering in the 2019 final but stood strong yesterday both in scrums and loose - although the style of the game suited him
You seemed to have missed that Genge caused two of the four pens.
But when Sinckler is weak, the opposite side moves with George as the pivot.
That's a what an ex prop told me at my lads rugby club last night.
He also schooled me a few weeks ago when I was ridiculing Cole as a selection. I always thought he looked like he'd wandered in from a Vets match.
He told me to watch him closely, his strength is undoubted, his technique is flawless and he rarely gets pens against him as he just knows his trade, inside out.
I've gained respect for Cole over this WC, I shouldn't have judged him so.
I await any context for Sinckler.
Allegation of a racial slur..
Also this from La Roux. : https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-england-v-south-africa-27959117.
It was noticable that the England scrum stopped being dominant when O'Keefe asked them to step up to the mark which meant SA front row wasn't long in the leg.
Courtney Lawes announces his international retirement after the Argentina game. Well done that man. 👏👏👏👏
Still cannot help but think he was wasted playing all those games at 6. A proper top quality 5. Him and Itoje would have made a big strong and dynamic pairing in the row.
England now blame the 2019 loss to SA for Sinckler having to be replaced by Cole and the 2023 one for Cole being replaced by Sinckler. I do have some sympathy having seen a "dominant" but illegal Irish scrum penalized 3 times against New Zeeland for very similar to what SA seemed to be rewarded for. Maybe we should hope for BOK as a ref going forward.
I know it's a semantics of the scrum thing, but when Genge drops to his knee in that fateful scrum BOK penalises him and calls the knee and then says SA weren't driving straight. How much did the angle of engagement by SA cause the twisting of Genge? I've seen a video justifying that the penalty was against England because of the knee, but the video clearly shows the SA prop engaging and driving at an angle
SA seemed to get away with driving at all sorts of weird and beneficial angles and only got resets and didn't ever seem to get a warning from BOK*. On the rare occasions that SA drove straight it was a much more even affair in the scrum.
*He may have done, I was in a loud room watching it so couldn't always hear what was being said
A seemed to get away with driving at all sorts of weird and beneficial angles
Yeah, seemed obvious. I know from my reffing, particularly with the mismatched sizes you get in the age-grade stuff - if a prop doesn't push straight the scrum [i]will[/i] collapse. Always make sure at the bind that they are as straight as they can be. But I'm far from a prem/WC ref and they get the big bucks.
England (Marler in particular) have gotten away with not pushing straight for years. Cole got away with taking a step back on engaging a few times in the first half too. Stuff happens. On balance the SA scrum was stronger in the SH.
If anything, the refereeing that helped SA was stopping the watch every scrum after a bit of time wasting earlier on. With Farell's trademark dhead bevhaviour to the referee, he was also luck to not be marched back 10 more often.
England played their only game plan possible. Be absolute dheads to annoy SA, kick all possession and score in 3's. They just did it better in the first half.
SA got their team selection wrong but rectified it with subs early. They would have struggled with an injury in the backs but did what was needed. England by contrast had 3 unused subs and when Vunipola came on for Curry's HIA, he didn't look like who knew where he was.
There seems a lot of optimism around England but I don't see a lot of depth or hope of change. It was good to see Itoje turn up for once and Lawes is the one bloke a neutral could really wish the very best for. Martin had a good game too, even more so given his age. Mitchell did what was asked of him really well too.
I do have some sympathy having seen a “dominant” but illegal Irish scrum penalized 3 times against New Zeeland
Porter has been on borrowed time for years, he never scrums straight. Sad state of affairs when something has been obvious for years but then only seems to be noticed in a world cup knock out game though.
Porter has been on borrowed time for years, he never scrums straight. Sad state of affairs when something has been obvious for years but then only seems to be noticed in a world cup knock out game though.
Porter is a converted tighthead, he moved across to loose because Leinster and Ireland thought the had sufficient cover at TH. He still wants to try to push with both shoulders. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move back given decline of Furlong.
It’s already being suggested Porter will likely move back across as Ireland have a lot of young talent coming through in the loosehead position, and not as much in tighthead at the moment.
That was Englands for the taking and a pity the way it ended but fair play for getting that far, they got further than most people expected. <br /><br />
I can’t help but think Farrel needs to go, he kicked well on Saturday but his shouting and ranting was like an angry toddler. When your own player needs to pull you away from an argument with the ref after he’s already given yards is unforgivable for an international captain. It also goes against everything rugby tries to teach young players. Those points were the difference between a place in the final or not.
As one of the pundits said after the game, you need to score tries to win matches and England didn’t. <br /><br />
Hard to bet against the kiwis after the last few matches. Let’s hope it’s a good game to watch either way.
Apparently “wit kant” is Africans for “white side”, indicating a ruck was lost by RSA and Curry may have been mistaken about what was being said.
Discuss.
Discuss
My first thought is it's incredibly thin skinned for Curry to even give a shit enough for it to register. It seems like the increasing footballisation with play acting to get people carded and now faux offence taken is creeping into rugby. It was better when you could just smack someone in the face who was giving off, guess we don't want that though........
There's a video online that apparently you can hear him shouting wit kant, I couldn't hear a thing though, I'll see if I can find it.
Discuss.
Not much to discuss really, is there? No one knows anything and those who do aren't talking.
Why, what are you fishing for?
As one of the pundits said after the game, you need to score tries to win matches and England didn’t.
They didn't score a try against Argentina 😉
Curry did the right thing for me. Highlighted it to the ref, and didn't expand on it to the press. Leave it to the right channels to sort it out. If it's a mistake then fine, if it's more, they should deal with it in the correct way.
Fortunately the Afrikaans for black is Swart so there can't be any confusion at the weekend.
My first thought is it’s incredibly thin skinned for Curry to even give a shit enough for it to register.
That's how I felt about Marler tweaking AWJ's nob, if one of his team mates had grabbed his meat and two veg in the changing rooms or bar or slapped his arse, they'd all be laughing about it. I saw it called sexual assault when it happened though!
That’s how I felt about Marler tweaking AWJ’s nob
Really, how bizarre. If I was walking down the street and someone called me a white **** I'd think it a bit odd. If someone grabbed my bollocks it would be a very different matter. It's much more akin to Marlers "gypsy boy" comment to Samson Lee, as I recall Lee never ran off to tell the ref about it
, if one of his team mates had grabbed his meat and two veg in the changing rooms or bar
Presumably in this bizarre line of thought his. teamates wouldn't be doing it in an effort to get him to react and get him sent off.
Tell you what, next time you see AWJ in a bar grab his knob and report back on how you get on.
Edit: I'm just saying stuff cos I'm bored.
New world rugby tournament - 24 teams - 2 leagues of 12. Promotion and relegation. Every 3 years. Should help to give the smaller teams more competitive games and something to play for
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/24/world-rugby-nations-league-24-team-world-cup-calendar
Promotion and relegation.
from 2030....
England go with the newer boys v Argentina. A pity Lawes doesn’t get to run out onto the pitch, he apparently has a calf injury. <br /><br />
Arundell, Smith, Stuart, Dan, Rodd and Underhill all get to play, god knows why Ben Young’s is selected though - why have the attack with a slow kicking SH?
god knows why Ben Young’s is selected though
Probably because he's Englands most capped mens player and will be anouncing his international retirement after this WC.
I know some people like to hate him, but he's played 126 times for England, 302 times for Tigers, twice for the lions (would have been more had he not opted to stay at home and support his brother when his wife was sick with cancer), and he's won 5 premieship titles since he made his debut in 2007. You don't get a record like that without being good at what you do, plenty of different coaches seem to agree. He might not be what he once was, but I honestly can't say i've ever seen him let a team down that hes been playing for.
I reckon he deserves one more run out.
Can also see Cole and Care retiring after this as well.
I was right. Ben Youngs to retire from test rugby after Fridays match. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67214279
The England backrow starts to look a bit underpowered when Laws isn't in it.
England: Smith; Steward, Marchant, Tuilagi, Arundell; Farrell (capt), Youngs; Genge, Dan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Curry, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.
All Hail Squidge, who once again brings clarity to the beer selling armchair supporters. So it turns out - the scrappy unordained England play wasn't an accident, much like Eddie Jones 2019 All Black beating strategy, it was a SA beating strategy setup by Borthwick that'd look crazy against any other team...
ITV coverage up to its usual standards, who are Englandshire playing?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/27/rfu-bans-former-council-member-for-using-racial-slur-to-black-volunteer<br /><br />Found myself wondering if the somewhat dramatic RFU reaction to last week's Tom Currie drama might have been influenced by the impending news about this disciplinary case back home. It does feel as if they were playing the 'victim' card pretty hard given the circumstances.
who are Englandshire playing?
Dunno but they decided to wear their sexy shirts