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From memory it isn’t, sorry Kryters.
Not my first rodeo at Twickers so let’s hope the FIL has his wallet open to drown my sorrows. The media is crucifying England and Borthwick already
LRZ should have been nowhere near that disallowed try.
TBF LRZ is bloody quick!
he is but he took 5m out of Steward in 15m. Steward IMO is too slow to be an international full back.
Pumas 10: 3 up at HT
There is a lot of commentary about stewards running. Not as fast as you'd think and pretty straight running.
Superb in the air and a big unit, like all big lads in the back 3 makes a big impact until teams figure out his weaknesses then no longer stand out.
I can’t understand why England can’t get a dominant tight 5 who get set piece ball. The line out was especially unforgivable as Borthwick is meant to be a lineout savant. Scrum wise, neither Genge or Shinkler are going to guarantee you ball. I can’t get my head around how the most resourced country in the world have to rely on those two. As for Wales,hard times for them until they even out their spending but Gatland is a hell of a sticking plaster.
I think its two issues. The way they play in the club game and the mythology about how good the english league is. They come unstuck when playing teams that play in different ways and also coaching - it seems England are all about power and size - not technique
As for Wales
Wainwright was excellent as a makeshift 8, we need to wrap him in cotton wool incase Faletau doesn't make it. Rowlands adds much needed grunt at lock. Tschunza needs to go away and bulk up and be a lock. Plumtree looks good. Halfpenny has 100th cap, so long and thanks for all the fish, Dyer won't make the first team as long as Williams doesn't break on first contact. Would be nice if Grady could step up and replace the ghost of George Norths past
Wainwright I thought was the standout player. Welsh props held the English scrum really well. other than that I did not see much that was good from either side apart from Wales play Warrenball better than England 🙂
Oh well as I seem to be the last Ireland fan on here, with a poor grasp if rugby (I did play though), we seemed to make hard work of Italy, which is concerning.
Sorry I did not watch the game - I watched argentina SA instead. was the weather not foul? Italy are also much improved and will give anyone a hard time now. Scotland only just beat them
Seemed like a second stream team to me as the likes of Tadhg Furlong didn't start.
Very much second string Ireland battered Italy in 30mins and then eased off.
Pretty much what AA said. Ireland bossed Italy in the first half without looking like anything special then took their foot off the gas. I thought Byrne was the best of the subs. I think Ireland will improve not sure Italy will.
England squad
Forwards: Ollie Chessum (Leicester), Dan Cole (Leicester), Tom Curry (Sale), Theo Dan (Saracens), Ben Earl (Saracens), Ellis Genge (Bristol), Jamie George (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), David Ribbans (Toulon), Bevan Rodd (Sale), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Jack Walker (Harlequins), Jack Willis (Toulouse).Backs: Henry Arundell (Racing 92), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Saracens), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Sale), Ollie Lawrence (Bath), Max Malins (Bristol), Joe Marchant (Stade Francais), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester), Anthony Watson (unattached), Ben Youngs (Leicester).
Surely a good 23 can be picked from this lot. Vunipola the only 8 and given he hasn't performed at international level for a while it's a big risk. Glad to see Arundel in, he is box office.
Care, Farrel, Tuilagi, Lawrence/Marchant , Watson, Arundell/Mallins and Steward would be an awesome set of backs (Awesome in the England sense of the word as opposed to an AB’s level of Awesome) if only we knew what kind of Rugby we are playing .
I can’t help thinking that close to a full team will be out next Saturday to make a statement in light of the current negative press. Will probably still lose.
Fair disciplinary hearing for Fagerson
http://scottishrugby.org/independent-disciplinary-update-zander-fagerson-scotland/?fbclid=IwAR23-2hrAu9RfNfNF0q6uF4dAYH7Vnwsg-klKHvovD1GBYKZMn9U7GeUHAg
I guess he stole the biscuits that Sexton took for his disciplinary. I think he got off lightly
I think he got off lightly
ditto.
Gave his name as Owen Farrell, that usually does the trick. That and caramel wafers as everybody knows they are the king of biscuits.
Fagerson was a DH mountainbiker to a high standard as a kid. Maybe that worked in his favour or perhaps the fact he used to sing in a choir was used.
As we live much closer to Murrayfield than twickers now I find myself watching more Scottish games with the boy (He's a Scotland rugby fan having lived the majority of his life in the north) and to be honest, I think I might just pack away the England stuff for a while and get myself a Scotland jersey. While they may not be a more talented group of players, watching them is so much more enjoyable than England has been for a good while, the win against France last weekend was a classic comeback that England couldn't dream of pulling off right now. They play with more conviction, more heart and a better plan. Just a shame they got such a crappy WC draw.
Fagerson was a DH mountainbiker to a high standard as a kid.
U14 scottish DH champ no less. Don't you just hate those people that are good at loads of sports...
They play with more conviction, more heart and a better plan
Unless it was the first half where they tried to phone in the performance against some French kids and got their arses handed to them, not a great endorsement of Finn as captain tbh
Just a shame they got such a crappy WC draw.
I’m really looking forward to the World Cup, but the complaints/moans about the draw are so tiresome. (not in this case, but generally)
While they may not be a more talented group of players
Which England back would get into the Scotland side? Might be room for a couple of forwards - Genge, sinclair, Itoje perhaps but not a single english back would get into the first choice scotland team
Glass half empty again AA? Finn is the GOAT and king of the flash gits!
Unless it was the first half where they tried to phone in the performance against some French kids and got their arses handed to them, not a great endorsement of Finn as captain tbh
Everyone has bad halves, but they got stuck in and turned it around and thats what counts. Yes it was a second string France but it could have been more than 4 points in it too, with the bounce off the post and disallowed try in the second half whereas France got every point they had a sniff at IIRC.
Which England back would get into the Scotland side?
The way they're playing right now, this is a fair point.
Glass half empty again AA?
Given this team of all-stars you have currently you'd think they would have won something by now. I suppose the Doddie Weir Cup and Calcutta Cup are the heights of Scottish ambitions.
Given this team of all-stars you have currently you’d think they would have won something by now. I suppose the Doddie Weir Cup and Calcutta Cup are the heights of Scottish ambitions.
Scotland isn't really a rugby playing nation (outside of the private schools who, apart from the rugby scholarship kids, don't have much incentive to turn pro since they're going to be busy being a Senior Partner in daddy's solicitor firm) and I think this magical alignment of the stars that produced the current generation is about the peak.
Anyway, I would have thought you'd be happy. Normally you only try to have digs at Scotland when Wales are doing particularly shit. Given the draw, Wales are going to go pretty far this WC.
Unlike Scotland who aren't getting out the group.
Anyway, I would have thought you’d be happy
Neither happy nor sad re rugby at the moment, Wales simply don't have the players to compete at the moment so it is was it is.
Given the draw, Wales are going to go pretty far this WC.
It is an easy draw you are right, however we recently lost to the Australia third team at home and we rarely beat them, Fiji just spanked Japan and look decent and we have a history of losing to them at World Cups in France!! Georgia beat us last November. I reckon we'll beat Portugal though 😄😄
Wales side to face England: L Williams; Adams, Roberts, Tompkins, Rogers; O Williams, T Williams; G Thomas, Lake (capt), Francis, Beard, R Davies, Lydiate, Reffell, Plumtree.
Replacements: Parry, Mathias, Lewis, Tshiunza, Basham, Hardy, Biggar, K Williams
Tom Rogers should be nowhere near a Wales team. Looking forward to seeing what Plumtree can do. Lake as captain is interesting, if his darts can hold up he could be very good. Roberts at 13 is good but this world cup looks to be too soon, same for Tshiunza but at least he looks like he'll come on as a lock, he needs to be that long term, doesn't seem suited to 6.
Given the draw, Wales are going to go pretty far this WC.
Wales will more than likely lose to Australia, and could easily lose to Fiji.
However, whilst Scotland have the best side they’ve had for a long, long ,long time - to win anything you have to be able to string together a group of wins. I cannot recall the last time Scotland won three games in a row. Four games was probably in the last millennium iirc.
Wales side to face England: L Williams; Adams, Roberts, Tompkins, Rogers; O Williams, T Williams; G Thomas, Lake (capt), Francis, Beard, R Davies, Lydiate, Reffell, Plumtree.
Replacements: Parry, Mathias, Lewis, Tshiunza, Basham, Hardy, Biggar, K Williams
Another exciting looking team to me, enough class and new blood that I’d think we could do well if the gods are favourable. Winning at Twickenham is never easy and supposedly England’s team will be much stronger, but if Wales can play without too much pressure who knows? 😀
duckman - I was thinking the props could fight for a benchplace! I'm a big Itoje fan
I cannot recall the last time Scotland won three games in a row.
I can't recall the last time Scotland put an 80 minute performance together. Plenty of good halves and good 60 minutes but they are going to need to pull two 80 minute performances together to have any chance of getting out of the group.
Or get very lucky.
Bruce =- as well as that they need SA or ireland to have an off day
Bruce =- as well as that they need SA or ireland to have an off day
I’d give Scotland a 1 in 3 chance of getting out of the group, which is not too bad considering who they are up against. They’ll obviously need to beat either Ireland or SA, then bonus points will likely come into play - which may favour Scotland. Red cards are going to play a part in a handful of games. I really hope Scotland manage it, but I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see them beat SA and then lose to Tonga 😂
more like 1:20 chance. I think Tonga will cause some upsets.
I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see them beat SA and then lose to Tonga 😂
It would be the traditionally Scottish way to not make it out of the group 🙂
I'm sure Scotland will find a way to go out dramatically somehow. Missing out on a bonus point somewhere etc
The first weekend is set up to be so exciting: France v NZ, England v Argentina, SA v Scotland and Wales v Fiji. Any of those games could go either way. Not so crucial for France or NZ perhaps, but the other games are hugely important!
duckman – I was thinking the props could fight for a benchplace! I’m a big Itoje fan
I would take Sinkler over that fat angry kid who keeps betting sent off, Genge (although not Saturdays version TBF) over Schoemen. Itoje over most locks in British Isles and the good Curry at 7. The England backs are not really up to much due to lack of form and the lack of a coach choosing the best selection and sticking to it. Arundel looks special to me but he needed to have been picked for a year before the world cup.
In fact I'd also take George over your hookers.
For Wales I'd take the England front 5 en masses, plus Faz at 10, Tuilagi at 13 and if we had Arundel he would allow us to play LRZ at 15
and the good Curry at 7
LOlz - over the Mish. Mbawza (ritchie) and Darge? that 3 we have who are better
LOlz – over the Mish. Mbawza (ritchie) and Darge? that 3 we have who are better
Er....no
Curry is way over rated - and consistently outplayed by whichever Scots seven he has had to face.
In the immortal words of POM - who do you think you are - yer just a shit MIsh! ( he actually said McCaw) 🙂
Scotlands real problem as ever is depth. There are positions where if the first choice is injured the second is nothing like as good. That will cost us in the WC.
Take out Finn, Ritchie, Duhan and and Darcy and the team looks nothing like as good
Curry is way over rated
Started 3 lions tests where Townsend and Tandy were on the coaching team.
Personally I think Darcy makes a good replacement for Steyn 🙂
ronan O'Gara team talk; Its brilliant - the vid is worth watching
Shinkler can’t scrum and neither can Genge.Shinkler seems to get credit as a prop because it helps England think they would have won the last WC if he hadn’t been concussed that’s why a Scot went to SA instead of him, he may have mentioned it VERY publicly 😀. We have got the better of the English front row for the last 3 years with our second rate props. Itoje has been on a measurable decline for 3 years, again; I wouldn’t swap the current version of him for either Grey. I would take a fit Cowan-Dickie and Curry from them, Wainwright from the Overdrafts and all of the Irish pack.
Fagerson is a liability, he has all the attributes but gets pinged at scrum time far too much, especially as he doesn't look under pressure and doesn't seem to be able to enter rucks safely.
Wainwright is a curious one, wasn't pick by Pivac, was playing badly and then turns it on when Garland returns, have to wait and see if he can sustain it.
Times suggesting:
15. Freddie Steward
14. Anthony Watson
13. Elliot Daly
12. Ollie Lawrence
11. Henry Arundell
10. Owen Farrell
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Ellis Genge
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Courtney Lawes
6. Tom Curry
7. Jack Willis
8. Billy Vunipola
Can't see bench.
I will burst a lung laughing if the Wales team picked beat that! Can't see it though
That seems sensible - it should be a win with more stability in the Scrum and greater certainty in the line out, plus a chance for Billy V to get up to speed and to try Daly out - I hope he isn't a liability in that position, but it allows Arundell to play.
Its close to a first 15. There are rumours of Laurence & Tuilagi in the centres for the bigger matches, at least first half.
plus a chance for Billy V to get up to speed
Shame we cant use the tried and tested method of kicking it to Billy and getting Navidi to tackle him until Billy runs out of puff or gets injured!! I reckon old man Lydiate might break first in that respect.
Gatlands tactic of kicking infield to tire out teams like England seemed to be firmly in play last week.
Scotland team to play France
B Kinghorn; K Steyn, H Jones, S Tuipulotu, D van der Merwe; F Russell, A Price; P Schoeman, G Turner, W Nel; R Gray, G Gilchrist; J Ritchie, R Darge, J Dempsey.
Replacements: S McInally, R Sutherland, J Sebastian, S Cummings, S Skinner, J Bayliss, G Horne, O Smith.
World's greatest midget winger dropped!!
STW won't let me post the England team, has Duckman taken control?
I give up. I'm not typing it out.
Any way, weaker scrum than expected, looking forward to how Ben earl goes, interested also in the centre combo (at last we have real centres) Arundell. But, no 7 on the pitch, gulp.
I couldn't post it either! How about a link:
https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rwc23-england-team-to-face-wales-in-second-summer-nations-series-test
Seen the Wallabies WC squad has been announced... and people are upset that there's no room for Quade Cooper! LoLZ. 😆
Re wallabies:
"A whopping 25 of the 33 players picked haven't been to a World Cup before, with all nine locks and back-rowers yet to feature at the showpiece event."
Am I reading the list right, and Marler is in the England squad again?
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
14. Henry Arundell (Racing 92, 7 caps)
13. Joe Marchant (Stade Francais, 16 caps)
12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
11. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 57 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (C) (Saracens, 106 caps)
9. Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 79 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 77 caps)
3. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 26 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 67 caps)
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 97 caps)
7. Ben Earl (Saracens, 15 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 68 caps)
Replacements
16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 1 cap)
17. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 49 caps)
18. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 100 caps)
19. Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 20 caps)
20. Jack Willis (Toulouse, 10 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 122 caps)
22. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 82 caps)
23. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 19 caps)
Shouldnt George Martin be writing the final game of thrones book?
The England team look like they're supposed first team, with a lot of experience and familiarity with the way each other play (I may be mistaken). They should win. They likely will win. But, for some reason I have this niggling feeling that Wales might pull something very surprising off. I have a vision of the building pressure due to the media scrutiny and upcoming World Cup getting to them.
I need to go and have a word with myself!
If Scotland can beat France then I am going to buy into the hype. Fingers crossed.
If Scotland can beat France then I am going to buy into the hype. Fingers crossed.
I don't think you need worry about that. If we keep it within 20 points we will do well. This chap has been doing this for a few years
or
Predictions for the weekends matches?
Scotland France - I expect a high quality high tempo high scoring game and it could be a real cracker. The sheer power of the France forwards will win them the game especially as they seem to be fit enough not to get worn out by dragging them all over the pitch.
France by 10+ in a high scoring game and it could easily be the stuffing we thought was coming at last week after Fagersons card
England Wales. Another turgid affair and I give Wales a real chance of winning. England by 5 but I wouldn't bet my shirt on it.England have a bit more pace than last week but still overall too slow for me
Can I improve my frankly dismal prediction record? 😉
It's just occurred to me that Jonny Hill is on the bench but was not announced as part of the RWC squad. eh?
Chessum is injured but gets a seat on the plane, so Borthwick calls up Hill as a replacement for the warm up game.
It only makes sense in the strange world of English rugby, plus Chessum is a Tiger so that makes him 109.453% better than any other option.
I enjoyed the Wales v England game last week, but this game is dreadfully dull.
Is it only half time? FFS
It’s an injury-fest. Not looking good.
Zzzz......
Wow!!!
Have England ever been worse?
Lolz what a fiasco.
And I thought Fagerson was bad....
Whatever else may be decided by review that's a stupid tackle by Farrell