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If I could pick one side to close that out with pure guts, it would’ve been Ireland. Awesome display.
Wow!
Amazing display of Rugby, absolutely deserved. 👏👏👏👏
First half was good second was pure class from IRL taking the pressure in the first 20 mins of the second half.
Not just scraping the win they took NZ apart.
What a match! Well done Ireland, incredible series win!
Awesome. Ireland worthy of that win. NZ were only in the game during the yellow card period. Absolutely nails performance
Was a pretty good game as well
TBH apart from 30 minutes in the first test and the odd bit Ireland were the better side across the series
Have IRL really won 5/8 games against NZ??
Wow! Well done Ireland- that is something seriously impressive. I think if I was Irish I would have been very uneasy after the NZ try early in the second half.
For a good while after Farrell’s appointment I was unconvinced he would be successful - I could not have been more wrong. They have a formidable team, with depth, and a clear plan of play. I guess their only weakness at present is their reliance on Sexton.
C’mon England now 😀
That was something else! Well done the Irish.
Awesome from Ireland!
Just unbelievable. Have seen them blow so many half-time leads, especially in NZ. After those two early second-half tries, I was bricking it. But to see Herring go for the early break off the back (which most admitted they thought was the wrong thing to do) and go over with four of them trying to stop him to steady the ship was just glorious. Can’t wait for the NZ papers tomorrow. 🟢⚪️🟢 😀
Are you drunk yet DD?
Saving myself for the All Ireland hurling final tomorrow TeeJ. No doubt you’ll not have missed some of the build up this week. 😀
Oh and I know this is probably a bit naughty in the spirit of the game but I just love this guy. 😂
https://twitter.com/ek_rugby/status/1548243583404494848?s=21&t=U527s7IXPb1Eag5GXseZkw
England very second rate, and Jones pulls Care off. There’s another Jones/Care argument coming!
Weird game. Very disjointed. Both sides dropping the ball like it's greasy.
Northern Hemisphere 2 from 2 - cmon Wales!!!!
Would love to see the video of Genge running over Kerebi again.
Much better second half, England deserved that
The final turnover by England was an old-fashioned rucked ball - not seen that in years
Oh yes, still no central threat from England... all about that Marcus Smith try really. Plus fantastic defence. They did it!
Now for Wales to get the trio! 😀
Nervy though! We barely held the ball in the second half. Some strong defence.
Aus did far to much one up running I think - especially given their pace on the wings. Watching this game after Ireland v AB shows a real gap in adventure in style of play. Ireland really mix up their game
Unless i am missing the subtleties Ireland are playing pretty conventionally. No great amount of fancy moves. Just doing it very well with very few errors and making the right passes
Oh I nearly forgot, I guess Ireland end today #1 in world rankings? 😀
Yes and well deserved
Congratulations Ireland turning the world on its head. Fantastic performance.
Now fingers crossed for Cape Town.
I mean, I’ll take it, but oh my, Porter was very lucky I think.
I mean, I’ll take it, but oh my, Porter was very lucky I think.
Agreed. Looked too similar to the reds given last week.
Pitch in SA is shocking. It's like someone has laid turf on a beach
Fair play Wales, hopelessly outclassed but stayed in the fight..this Wainwright kid at 3...gave loads of pens away and all but for someone who managed just 8 appearances for Ampthill last season just surviving was a bonus. North played well too which was nice to see. Loosing Falatau before kick off and Lydiate early was a blow.
I mean, I’ll take it, but oh my, Porter was very lucky I think.
I think it was Aki who took out the replacement 3 with a shoulder to head in a ruck was also lucky, it didn't even get looked at.
I was going to lament Scotland throwing away a 15 point lead but then read about Ryan Jones being diagnosed with early onset dementia. As somebody who’s Mother has no idea who I am, there is no point wishing him a good fight/health etc as it doesn’t work like that. Poor man,just 41 with 6 kids to look after.
That Saturday evening in Dunedin 17 years ago, Ryan Jones seemed more force of nature than rugby player. He was 24, he’d just worn the British & Irish Lions shirt for the first time, scored a try, made a try and snaffled all the important turnovers. Without him, the Lions might not have beaten Otago.
He was, of course, man of the match and as he sat down in the press conference room under Carisbrook Stadium, he wolfed down a slice of pizza. Like a kid hungry for the world he’d broken into. There wasn’t one person in the room who didn’t warm to the young No 8. Jones went on to enjoy a terrific career with 75 Tests for Wales, three for the Lions, three grand slams, one as captain. He skippered Wales on 33 occasions, a record at the time.
We meet now at The Groaker, Rhiwbina, a restaurant about three miles north of Cardiff city centre. He arrives with Charley, his partner, and seeing him now it is easy to recall the tyro who terrorised Otago that evening. Six feet five and almost 18 stones back then, he still looks strong and athletic.
Over coffee he begins to talk about his life now. Especially, his fears for the future. “I feel like my world is falling apart. And I am really scared. Because I’ve got three children and three step-children and I want to be a fantastic dad,” he says.
“I lived 15 years of my life like a superhero and I’m not. I don’t know what the future holds.
“I am a product of an environment that is all about process and human performance. I’m not able to perform like I could. And I just want to lead a happy, healthy, normal life. I feel that’s been taken away and there’s nothing I can do. I can’t train harder, I can’t play the referee, I don’t know what the rules of the game are anymore.”
As he says this, he breaks down. Tears fill his eyes. Ryan Jones is 41 and another former rugby player with a serious brain injury. He received the diagnosis in December. Early onset dementia, probable chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). They told him he was one of one of the worst cases they have seen, and they have seen many.
We walk to somewhere quieter, down Lon-Y-Dail road, left onto Lon Isa, another left to a little green area surrounded by houses. It is a warm summer’s day in Cardiff and on the grass he sits with Charley by his side. He then explains how he has ended up in this place.
There wasn’t any headline-grabbing moment, he says, where he realised he was in trouble. Rather a slow realisation that something was amiss. At first he tried to tell himself it was nothing: everyone forgets things, every former player struggles after retirement, everyone has down moments, until he couldn’t run away from it anymore. “I think the understanding came a few years ago through conversations with people close to me,” he says.
“Whether it was partner or family, they were noticing changes in me. I was diagnosed with depression and I started to realise that some of my cognitive function wasn’t great. I began to see that my short-term memory wasn’t great. I was forgetting things.”
What a doctor saw as depression was a symptom, not a cause. “Ryan would say to me, ‘I don’t think I am [depressed],’ ” Charley says. “He couldn’t explain. He would say, ‘I can’t articulate it Charley but there’s something not right. It’s not depression, it’s something else.’
“He would say things like, ‘My head just feels full,’ and he would have physical symptoms: headaches and eye problems often. And obviously these things are getting worse, but he would say, ‘I can’t get the words out.’ What we’ve certainly noticed the last couple of years is everything getting slower. He gets more anxious that he can’t get his words and he can’t put sentences together.
“We were talking about this the other day, Ryan was the Wales captain and he thrived under pressure. Now any form of stress he can’t cope with at all. And there’s an emotional cost to that. And he will just go really within himself — almost catatonic — to a point where he just has to be left alone in a dark room.”
He can’t avoid the moments that remind him of what he’s losing. He tells of doing an event with former Welsh player Sean Holley in . . . and he stops while trying to recall the town. Aberystwyth. Holley recalled incidents that happened in games, big moments they had shared on the pitch and as Jones listened, he couldn’t remember any of this. “It’s wasn’t like, ‘Ah, I now remember that.’ It’s like absolutely no recollection.”
Another recent moment cut him to the quick. For some time he’d been telling the kids that he’s got to take them to Pen y Fan, the highest peak in South Wales. And then, even more recently, he’s going through old stuff and he sees photos of himself and the kids on Pen y Fan: “I had been on about desperately wanting to take the kids to Pen y Fan and do the mountain, because they’d never done it, and I don’t look at the photo and [think] ‘Ah, I remember now,’ because I don’t.”
There are conversations now that he will soon forget. Things that he and Charley agreed that he doesn’t recall. That is upsetting for him as the absence of any recall leaves him convinced the original conversation can’t have taken place. “There’s been times I’ve recorded stuff,” she says. “Because I know he will forget it and he will challenge me — ‘I didn’t say that, I didn’t even have that conversation’ — and it will be something important. ‘You did darling, this is it [the recording].’ There’s a genuine, complete blank of memory, and it’s not until I show him something, and he can see it’s me and he trusts that I am being honest with him. It’s the short- term memory. The best way I can describe Ryan — it’s like having a conversation with my 85-year-old grandad.”
At first they would joke about the things he forgot; laughter was their way of coping. They knew they were in denial but didn’t want to have the conversation. Then came what Charley calls “the dark episodes”.
“Ryan got to a place where he thought, ‘Well, this is impacting on everyone else’s lives, especially the children’s lives’ and he knew he had to explore what had gone wrong,” she says. “The dark times were where he would get almost to the point of wanting to scream at this thing that he couldn’t explain to me. ‘Charley I can’t even talk, I haven’t got the capacity to talk about it.’”
They now pick up on the signs of a coming-down period and take precautions. Though he will try to function normally, it is a struggle and it’s a particular concern if his low mood overlaps with time he’s spending with the kids. Thirty-six hours is how long they last, though with this illness nothing stays the same.
“We don’t know where to go, where to find support,” Jones says. “We haven’t got any friends in this space. It terrifies me because I don’t know if, in two years’ time, we’re sat here and these episodes are a week long, two weeks long or permanent. That’s the fear, that’s the bit that never leaves. That’s the bit I can’t shake off.
“Every episode I have also leaves a bit of a legacy. Everything we cancel, every relationship that I poison or don’t have time for anymore, just makes it a little bit tougher to cope. I don’t know how to slow that down, make it stop, what to do.”
Charley says the young Ryan she got to know at Cardiff University 20 years ago is no more. She sees a big change. Back then he was the eternal optimist, the guy who believed things would work out. Now there is almost constant anxiety about meeting strangers, about people judging him, about what kind of dad he’s going to be.
The diagnosis was unambiguous. Early onset dementia, probable CTE and yet, at last, clarity. “The stress of not knowing was becoming too big. There is a relief in diagnosis,” he says.
“There was a grief in diagnosis,” Charley says. “I don’t know if Ryan recognised this or not, because we haven’t really spoken about it. There was an, ‘Ah f***, it’s actually true,’ and I think there was part of him that was desperately hoping that the neurologist might say, ‘You’re fine, you’re one of the lucky ones.’ ”
They asked the neurologist about the future. He said the rate at which things deteriorated over the past five years is likely to continue.
After the diagnosis came the most difficult thing. Telling the children. Jacob is just 12, a keen and very good rugby player. A mini version of Ryan. His dad is his hero. He asked if there was a treatment that would make things better. Then he wondered about his own rugby. His dad said that it was a conversation they needed to have.
“Do I want to be a father in ten years, or if Charley is left to pick up the pieces, having a conversation with my son when he’s 30, going, ‘Guess what, you’ve trodden the same path as your dad’? We knew all along and we didn’t stop you and boy do we wish we had. I couldn’t live with that.”
Since the diagnosis, he’s shared the news with his family and closest friends, but not with the men he once soldiered with.
Since the diagnosis, he’s shared the news with his family and closest friends, but not with the men he once soldiered with.
“I am not sure what their personal circumstances are,” he says. “Maybe on the back of this, people will reach out to me if they’re concerned. I think that would be the one positive. I would love that, because we could just share. It’s probably my ego as well. I had great times.
“The other thing is I probably realised the changing room hasn’t been there for me either. This idea of ‘everyone is mates’ is not the case. We were people who pulled together with a common cause, we shared some fantastic moments together but we’ve gone our different ways now. I am torn on the game, you know. [There’s] still a part of me that loves it.
“I was a kid who had a dream of playing for Wales. I got to live that dream. I captained Wales more times than anyone else until Warby [Sam Warburton] came along and I wouldn’t change,” he says and then pauses. “Actually I would change it based on my experience now. But in the moment it was amazing.”
As for the game and its response to brain injury, he is unequivocal: “It is walking headlong with its eyes closed into a catastrophic situation.”
Should we be watching this, should I take my son to training next month?
Should we be watching this, should I take my son to training next month?
I’ve had very similar thoughts.
That's a very bleak and honest article. My mum also has dementia. Rugby needs to do something it may well mean fundamental changes in the game.
I’ve had very similar thoughts.
+1
I coach (along with three other dads) my lad’s U9 group. Going into U10 next season will bring a little more contact. We’re doing our absolute best to teach them proper tackle technique, etc. But I still see a lot of “old school” coaches that just want the hit first, we’ll worry about technique later. I’m very very conflicted about whether we continue this as a family, going forward. I’ve already seen kids with poor technique get bonked when they go to tackle a bigger kid and just bounce off. We’ve done all the courses relevant to our age grades but there are still absolutely terrible coaches out there, often ex-players who played in the bad old days.
I really don’t know what to do. I love seeing him have the experience of a team sport, the camaraderie etc. but I feel like I’m sticking him into a lottery where if he’s unlucky, the outcome could be very bad indeed.
Its shite being a Scotland fan
@tja This is true. However we can take the misery. It's the hope that kills you.
Too true
Desperately sad news about Ryan Jones. I was playing youth rugby for Carmarthen Quins youth whilst he was winning grand slams with Wales, so he was one of my very first rugby idols. He always seems like such a genuinely nice man.
I genuinely don't know if I can continue watching rugby. So many of the current old guard must be facing the same future soon after retirement.
In this case hope until the 79th minute!
My wife and I both do the first aid for my daughter’s u14 team at the moment. She’ll be moving into the u16s soon and there are some very big size differences in that age group.
Our match first aid includes a lot of head knocks. The coaches are great and take it very seriously and won’t let the girls back on and won’t let them train for a week or more if necessary.
Some of the parents don’t take it well though; we’ve taken to putting a message on the group chat pointedly saying ‘X got a knock to the head and said she felt wobbily etc, we’d advise a trip to hospital’ just so it’s clear what we think should happen. Trips to a+e are rare though.
I’m torn about my own daughter’s participation. It is doing her SO much good socially, mentally (puberty hasn’t been easy for her so far) and in regard to her physical fitness. Her team have a great bond and care about each other.
But…what do we do about this constant bad news from older players? Can this sport continue to put young people at risk like this?
And it doesn’t help the girls get the shitty end of the stick when it comes to having to play in summer on rock hard pitches because the coaches and clubs are all focused on boys and men during the ‘proper’ season.
Don’t know what to do 😐
I just saw the article on BBC Sport website about Ryan Jones.
It’s such sad news for him and his family. Unfortunately he certainly won’t be the last player to have this happen.
I met him, and a few of the Ospreys lads, at a hotel in Caerphilly some years ago. Really nice guy and even though they were on a jolly had time enough to chat and bants.
The double edge sword is that I loved watching him play. One of the greats and a leader of the field too.
It's truly horrible news.
But remember the guys in the news were all pro players so training more and harder and taking bigger hits than us Saturday warriors. I played to a reasonable standard and I know duckman played pretty high. And yes I took some bangs to the head but nothing like a pro player. Hopefully with rule changes and player care the probability is lessened. It would be more informative if there were information/survey on club and ex club players. Still one player effected is one too many.
Not sure if it's been mentioned above, Steve Thompson was on BBC HardTalk not long ago, he's been diagnosed with early onset dementia, too. Something's gotta change.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct32r2
😀
Some of the parents don’t take it well though; we’ve taken to putting a message on the group chat pointedly saying ‘X got a knock to the head and said she felt wobbily etc, we’d advise a trip to hospital’ just so it’s clear what we think should happen. Trips to a+e are rare though.
Lister. I admire your stance, but you are actually not doing enough.
a) Have you, the parents and the kids doen the online Headcase course? https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/headcase Its an RFU requirement for coaches and palyers.
b) You should be doing 23 day return to paly protocol if any player gets a headnock that has them off the pitch.
c) You can use this to push back to parents, tell them about Steve Thompson and Ryan Gsoling.
List below of what to look for.
They have one or more of the
following observable signs:
• Loss of consciousness
or responsiveness
• Slow to get up
• Unsteady on feet
• Incoordination
• Clutching of head
• Blank or vacant look
• Dazed/ Confused
One or more of the following
symptoms are present:
• Headache
• Seizure or convulsion
• Dizziness or balance problems
• Confusion
• Difficulty concentrating
• Nausea or vomiting
• Drowsiness / fatigue
• More emotional or sadness
• Blurred vision, sensitivity to light
• Irritable
• Difficulty remembering or amnesia
• Neck Pain
• “Don’t feel right”
Sorry Ryan Jones, not Gosling.
I was definitely concussed at least 5 times, including 2 where I was spark out ( one was boxing)But it isn’t even the concussions you know about, also Dementia is in my genes if my Mum and Gran are examples and I am into my 50’s now. I can’t say that I don’t sometimes have dark thoughts about it when I forget my pin/ where the car is momentarily.
I think rugby as we know it will be gone in a few years.
The injuries and head knocks mean imo its inevitable.
I've been thinking that as well TJ. Players are so big and athletic - the impact forces are so high at the top levels.
It has to change, I think a big plus would be making the pitches much wider at the pro level, bring skill and speed into it more.
I think rugby as we know it will be gone in a few years.
The injuries and head knocks mean imo its inevitable.
I disagree a bit - basically if the concussions are managed then its much less bad. hence the 23 day protocol. We just apply it blanket across our players, 19 days for seniors. Any one of the symptoms above, then we assume you have concussion and its min 23 days from cessation of symptoms. I think this will help in a big way.
I also agree with less replacements and/or bigger pitches.
Interestingly the womens game has become a very dynamic game to watch, less ploughing matches and more fancy backs moves.
Remember the time when George North went grey in the face on the pitch. I felt like that was badly managed, it still scares me that the senior game (in england, and especially in wales) appears to be ignoring the RFU stuff on concussions.
there was a lot of discussion about it during these summer games when SA, NZ and Aus players got ruled out but NH players were back next week... Hmmm...
Another jobby sandwich;Ed Slater the Gloucester lock has retired with immediate effect after a diagnosis for MND.
I think rugby as we know it will be gone in a few years.
The injuries and head knocks mean imo its inevitable.
I think that the focus has to change. At the moment the risk/reward ratio for going high in a tackle to stop the offload means that even the risk of a red card isn't enough to stop head contact. And as we've seen over the last year referees are losing their appetite for giving out red cards so the incentive is only getting stronger.
I mentioned a while ago about how tip tackles were pretty much eliminated from the game but I don't think this is going to happen with head contact. The risk/reward ratio for tip tackles meant coaches quickly adapted tackle technique to avoid tip tackles since there wasn't any real benefit.
I think tackle heights have to come down and it has to be policed on the potential rather than the outcome.
By that I mean that contact should only be made below the shoulder. Making contact with the shoulder should be a penalty and possibly yellow.
This isn't going to solve the issue because I believe the root cause is the sheer size and speed of modern professional players and direct head contact is only part of the problem. I think that basically outlawing the wrap tackle will do more to reduce player size because it will make offloads much easier. More offloads means that the game becomes more aerobic than anaerobic and players will spend more time jogging around the field rather that constantly setting the line and then sprinting.
The most idiotic mitigation I've ever heard for head contact is, 'How is a large player supposed to get low enough to tackle a small player?'
Rugby is supposed to be a game for all shapes and sizes. This means there should be some advantages to being 5'5".
Basically I think the focus going forward should be on adjusting the rules to encourage coaches to reduce the size of their individual players. Not that the entire team should be made up of Oompa Loompas but maybe it should more closely reflect the size and shape differences you see in a typical amateur team.
The modern game is not what it was in the pro/am transition and yes big changes need to happen. Big fines for management etc that keep a player who may be concussed on the pitch. Bring back the toughness of cards. Stop the on the pitch mitigation, allow that to happen at the panel (mitigation found cleared to play next week, no mitigation ban depending on severity). Another TMO to help spot potentials.
Stick another 25m on the pitch width and only allow medical subs. If you are suspected of gaming the system the it's a deano ban.
Will it ruin rugby? Yes. But it's no longer rugby of the rule book. There's always been big hits and concussion but having me smash you at 11atone is different to steward hitting you in a tackle. As above big slabs of muscle smashing folk day in day out is causing damage.
Moving to a team GB format for the sevens World Series and the Olympic games. I have concerns that this will set a precedent for other competitions and other sports.
https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scottish-rugby,-rfu-and-wru-announce-move-to-great-britain-model-for-hsbc-world-rugby-sevens-series
As much as love rugby the head impact issues need to be taken seriously.
How it will effect the game I don't know but it has too, George north is a prime example of a player getting left on with head knocks.
Sexton is a current player that I aways think is only one game away from injury with big back row players clattering him.
Sadly we seam to be at the start of the graph from a data point of view. Wonder how fast will the old boys move on making changes?
22-23 Season thread here.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/rugby-22-23-season/