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2m forward at least, obvious at first sight from the telly coverage.
Hamish Watson does not seem to have the same impact on a game as he once did.
I’m glad Hogg is not on my team!
Wow, that new Italy kid is lively!
Wow great finish.
After this Scotland performance I don't rate their chances agaisnt Ireland next week at all.
So England likely to get stuffed now, I'm thinking Frogs will have their bogey match agaisnt us next week (if you don't call the close game agaisnt Wales their bogey) and Ireland win on points?
Why Gauss?
That was an entertaining game and Italy could have won that
Wow, that new Italy kid is lively!
But should he not still be playing under 14s? 🙂
After this Scotland performance I don’t rate their chances against Ireland next week at all.
I never have. Ireland play in a way we seem unable to play against. Ireland and France are the two best teams
And the summarisers in the TV studio watch Hogg's try and say what a good pass it was? Are they under orders of some kind not to question decisions?
And the summarisers in the TV studio watch Hogg’s try and say what a good pass it was?
Unbelievable.... Jesus it was miles forward!!
Shame for Italy
No - they are just daft!
Its a funny thing the "forward pass" - once tv replays came it it became clear that many passes travel forward eventho they look backwards so its now judged on the direction of the hands as its passed
watch this video for explanation
Oh, great Sir Clive 😩😡🤬
Ah I hadn't realised there was actual guidance on that @tjagain, thanks
Its a funny thing the “forward pass” – once tv replays came it it became clear that many passes travel forward eventho they look backwards so its now judged on the direction of the hands as its passed
I think you must mean "the direction of the hands relative to the passer's frame of reference" (or something like that). The hands move in the same direction (however you define that) as the ball both immediately before and immediately after release. So you might as well say "the direction of the ball relative to passer's frame of reference at the precise point the ball leaves their hands". Transferring the problem of direction from the ball to the hands clarifies nothing. By focussing on the player passing and their body parts, it perhaps lends a little more weight to the use of the player's frame of reference rather than that of the turf, but if that is really what is meant, then why not say it outright? And of course the rules themselves talk of the ball, not the hands.
That video is strange. The concept of "relative motion" is introduced, but then not expressly applied. All we get is the declarative statement "the ball was not passed forward". The viewer will ask "relative to what frame of reference". But we are left to infer that when "forward" is used in that statement it means "relative to the player's frame of reference". It is almost as if they are afraid of saying exactly what they mean.
Red card challenge
bang to rights red. No arguement
Everytime Jones mentions physicality it comes back to bite him on the arse!!
All that booing… not classy is it
" Sporting fans" 🙄🙄
I thought HQ was a bastion of crowd sportsmanship. Seems not.
Edit: to be fair it was better for the attempted conversion.
That's just pathetically inept technique.
Not sure why his team mates are commiserating with him, that's almost certainly cost them the game. I only played good amateur / low semi-pro but do stupid shit like that and you'd get your arse kicked, not be told bad luck.
So many games are being ruined because players have shit tackling technique. This should have been a good game instead it’s going to be an absolute thrashing.
If you did something as critically stupid as that when I played you'd better have a full wallet. Jugs were on you.
England's drive is early. Ref is balancing out the red.
Ireland need to settle themselves or they'll throw this away. Heads already dropping.
And england are walking it round
Well, I missed the first 2 minutes - looks like I might as well have missed the whole game 🤬
Sinkler must have an HIA surely. He seemed stunned.
There was a no arm tackle by England on the line in the phase before Sinkler was offside.
It was a defo red card but otherwise I think there is something about the reffing seems off - out of step with the game but I'm not sure I can articulate it
That was a great kick chase and marchant jackal.
England showing some real spirit.
Old dog - french ref with a different style?
Old dog – french ref with a different style?
Maybe. I think it's so many very quick pens/free kicks around scrums and lineouts - made the game disjointed, especially in first half
As an (mostly)unbiased observer with both English and Irish ancestry I am not really enjoying this game. Refereeing making it much less interesting than the Italy/Scotland game
Aye - England front row are conning the ref in every scrum. wheeling, pulling down and getting the pens. that ;last one Genge clearly pulled it down
I’m not sure I can articulate it
Trying to even it out, Genge hasn't driven straight once!
Not sure why an expert scummager like Rory Best hasn't pointed that out?
I wonder if England would have played so well with 15 players? A lot of the seasoned players stepping up. Nowell, Genge, Sinkler et al. Itoje never has a bad game, he is so good!
Ireland too used to playing against 13 ; )
Cracking game tho
Not sure why an expert scummager like Rory Best hasn’t pointed that out?
Not wanting to look like sour grapes?
That Irn Bru ad is seriously disturbing 😂
Itoje was almost carded though. Not sure how the tmo decided it wasn't clear and obvious (maybe that it's lead to a try)!but it was cycncal play.
I’ll take it. 😀 A win in World Beaters HQ doesn’t come round often. Thought it would be a game against 14, but to be honest, it felt like the green machine were playing against 15 for a lot of it. Really pleased their superiority showed in the last quarter and they put them away convincingly enough in the end.
Itoje was almost carded though. Not sure how the tmo decided it wasn’t clear and obvious (maybe that it’s lead to a try)!but it was cycncal play.
I think the replay that actually showed it was after the TMO said nothing clear and obvious. should have been yellow for sure. Immense game from him tho - he seems to just get better every match. His eyes scare me tho
England for all their endeavour and staying in the game hardly created a chance and Ireland blew how many? 4 tries to none. 550m run to 220. the only thing that kept England in the game was all those scrum pens
I have to say I really enjoyed the game tho - lots of tension. some good rugby played, could have gone either way up until the last few mins
Don't think anyone said that but you stomp yer feet.
England really brought effort but it was as disjointed as Ireland's.
The backs didn't play as well as they have but did have some moments that made huge differences, see my comment about marchant and his kick chase.
The front row played well and they definitely managed to play the ref scrum time. Simmonds was strong, Smith probably not at his best, maybe tried too hard. Randall was superb.
But again as a team they didn't quite gel on the go forward.
Yes, of course nothing gave England those points except for Irish penalties, our lot just stood around drinking tea for 80 mins.
It appears the Celts and the wannabe Celts can’t even accept a win in a classy fashion, its really looks ungracious on you TBH especially as the English in here admitted a likely loss even before the match, not sure what you’re trying to prove really.
It was expected that the Irish backs would outperform the English backs, but you didn’t expect to get a kicking up front from 7 forwards. In the end, a better Irish attack beat 14 men, congrats Ireland, should be Cup for you.
😂
Wowzers.
I really liked seeing Itoje and his world beating pack screeeeeming when Ireland had made a technical error leading to a penalty. That was really cool. 😀
So many armchair refs who seem to know everything - and more than the people who actually do it for a living at the highest level.
Impressive.
🤷🏻♂️
Edit because
Away win for the U20s as well. 27-42.
I enjoyed that as a trainee rugby fan (although I did play at university). I hid behind my sofa until the latter part of the game as I thought England were very much still in the game.
So many armchair refs who seem to know everything – and more than the people who actually do it for a living at the highest level.
Impressive.
🤷🏻♂️
Despicable.
Curry is a blow. He's a proper pain. Sinkler is pretty solid.
Randall was obviously given a bit of a faff role. He was quick out the line chasing the ball.
I will be leaving this thread again.
I only occasionally dip into the annual rugby thread(s) as I have to say I find them, consistently, the most bad tempered, niggly threads on the entire forum. Honestly brexit and major war threads are more peaceful. You don’t seem to get out and out trolls here but Jesus there’s some major bitching - all very strange.
can’t see England winning in Paris TBH
Me neither. I felt after the Italy (or perhaps Ireland) game, that France’s main vulnerability was high balls. I think this was supported by the Wales game. So, which England players are best to execute such a game plan? [ Bring in Owen Farrell and Jonny May? 😏 ] Smith, Randall and Nowell may have some success. Also with the pressure off to a large extent, maybe England can play more freely. Also, how well will France cope with Slam pressure?
So what are the Englanders thoughts on the new Messiah at 10. Two games in a row now he's been targeted whilst England try to hide him out on the wing in defence. Is it going to be sustainable to do that long term. In all other respects he was very good again but not sure you can reach the top as a team if one player has to be hidden in defence.
personal attacks
Playing the ref TJ....
glowing praise
It'll never happen! 😀
Dante will cause big issues for Slade (and Farrell wouldn't last two tackles against him). Can't see an England win. Although I'll be hoping for a good game from both teams.
Was supporting Ireland yesterday and was more behind the sofa than for any Scotland games.
(And not because ABE, waiting for my Irish passport).
one of the main reasons I gave up on this thread, utterly OTT reaction to anyones opinion on england unless it is glowing praise
Indeed I always get shit for criticism of other teams but anyone who looks can see I am most critical of Wales or the frankly shite regions/clubs.
Agree ^^ with onehundrethidiot. Teams are pouring through our backs, while we rely on the revolving door which is Tuilagi. It really needs sorting out.
I only occasionally dip into the annual rugby thread(s) as I have to say I find them, consistently, the most bad tempered, niggly threads on the entire forum.
We all get very passionate about our teams at this time of year. Since recent discussions some of us have been trying to make this more friendly but it does not seem to have worked
AA - you also come across very harshly sometimes.
Just all calm down folks please?
but anyone who looks can see I am most critical of Wales
It has been noticed 😏😂
Just all calm down folks please?
😂😂 oh tj
AA – you also come across very harshly sometimes.
Sometimes it's needed, I have avoided mentioning how appallingly bad Ewels tackle was. At least the ref got it right. Johnny Williams got away with one similar last season, forget what game it was
Great game. Sung myself hoarse.
I can’t speak for the red TBH because I missed it but nobody seems too bothered about it.
It was a phenomenal effort by the England pack to keep the team in the game & really Ireland should have been out of sight by h/t given a numerical & skill advantage. The fact they weren’t speaks volumes to the effort put in by England.
Lots of criticism of Englands lack of verve etc but when you’re a man down & one of your backs is in the pack you play to your strengths. I can’t help but wonder if England would have won if it had been 15 v 15. It would have been close & I think they’d have shaded it.
Anyway, great game. Shame about the lack of grace from some & the lack of acknowledgement of the England effort. Ireland, eventually, deserved winners. Bring on the French!
What a thread. I played an hour of rugby once at school, got a split lip and never played again; too rough and tumble for me. However, people on here, who no doubt used to play, get all upset if someone says their favourite player cannae catch. Surely there’s a place for a little teasing/leg pulling without people getting upset.
We’ve one more week of games to go. Whether it be France or Ireland who win, they will be deserved winners. Both teams are playing better rugby than the other 4 teams. Wales, Scotland and England are neither terrible or great, hopefully all three will be improved for next year, which promises to be something truly special.
So, I shall be posting over the next week despite knowing far less than everyone else. I shall be looking forward to the greater insights of others.
Sometimes it’s needed, I have avoided mentioning how appallingly bad Ewels tackle was.
Let me do it for you as a one eyed Englander. It was a straight and clear red. In fairness there were a few others from both sides that were very similar during the game, but they didn't lead to anyone getting knocked out so...
It was mentioned after the Wales game on friday by Tv common-taters that the tackling was woeful, we see it across the board, and whilst I don't like a card determining the outcome of the game, if we want the game to survive we need to cut down down on head injuries. It starts with tackling. England need to have a hard to look at retraining everyone to tackle lower.
Enjoyable game at Franklyn Gardens today, worth watching if you haven't already.
And to think I come here for some light relief.
It's like watching Mike Adamson referee but without the comical timing.
I thought England deserved to win. I take it all back.
I thought England deserved to win. I take it all back.
😂
Ok so France win against England. Probably.
Can the Scots get anything against Ireland and end up 3rd? Even a bonus point loss?
Or is it a runaway Welsh victory and the Scots finish 5th?
#ForebodingFeeling
Sorry to interrupt and talk about the 6N. 😉
Well this escalated quickly...group hug everyone!!
I think France will beat England. It’ll be the game of the Saturday. Ireland will probably beat Scotland. Wales will beat Italy easily enough.
Ok so France win against England. Probably.
Can the Scots get anything against Ireland and end up 3rd? Even a bonus point loss?
Or is it a runaway Welsh victory and the Scots finish 5th?
#ForebodingFeeling
Sorry to interrupt and talk about the 6N. 😉
Having a look at the current table, it is very interesting for 3rd, 4th and 5th place. Presuming France, Ireland and Wales win the final weekends games, then bonus points and points difference are likely to come into it. So, I think England above Scotland, with Wales potentially coming 3rd, 4th or 5th.
Edit: forget that, Wales would need to beat Italy by about 32pts and they’ve hardly been running in the tries this tournament. Wales/Scotland for 4th/5th
Ponts diff between England and Wales is 44 points I think. It depends on size of loss by England to france, but lets say its 7 points (so England get BP), that brings PD between England and Wales to 37. So they need to beat Italy by 38 I think to go 3rd.
If England don't get a BP then Wales go third if they do get a BP, very possible.
Possible points range look like this I think (check my maths?):
France 18-26
Ireland 16-21
England 10-15
Scotland 10-15
Wales 6-11
Italy 0-5
I'd just like to say that all the results went the way I wanted this weekend.
To give you an idea of rarely that actually happens, my team is Scotland and my 2nd team is Italy 🙂
Anyone come across any decent analysis of the scrums in the England V Ireland game? I would be really interested in reading or watching something from someone like Alex Corbisiero but can't find anything other than some comments he made on position to Cian Healy's feet.
On the game I think England shouldn't allow themselves to be too pleased with themselves outside of the performance of their tight 5. It was another game where they created nothing. It is possible to attack with 14 men, check out Irelands narrow loss to Wales last year where they had a deserved red after 14 mins. I was amazed to hear EJ say on the BBC rugby pod after Saturdays game that the sending off affected their defensive shape but not their attacking shape!
I’m no front row expert, but I know enough to understand when things are amiss.
To me the Ireland scrum wasn’t weak, the England front row were either pushing too early or walking round on the tight head. The England loose head was driving out, the tight head was boring in or pulling back.
They managed to convince the ref they were dominant.
When scrums push straight either you will see a collapse, someone pops up or the scrum goes backwards. They don’t wheel unless someone is cheating.
To me the Ireland scrum wasn’t weak, the England front row were either pushing too early or walking round on the tight head.
Under normal circumstances you would expect 1/8mile to deal with that though. The Irish hooker is quite inexperienced also which can't have helped, he's a converted back row isn't he
Under normal circumstances you would expect 1/8mile to deal with that though. The Irish hooker is quite inexperienced also which can’t have helped, he’s a converted back row isn’t he
That's what was most surprising, it was multiple times not once or twice. Nothing worked for us there. Sheehan is inexperienced but has been playing hooker for a while, certainly was an U20 international. He is possibly a little tall for a hooker though 6'2" ish I think. Great in the loose but perhaps les effective in scrum.
As I said during the game the white pack shoved early pretty early in the game. French refs love a going forward scrum. So a couple of early shoves and then go soft on the contact paints you as dominant and the opposition as not being to hold their feet. Once your losing that it's really hard to look on top again.
The wheeling was obviously deliberate. I think scrum needs a tmo from above.
A few shots of the set up also seemed to show white loosehead back from where he should have been, making green overextend and go long, easier to drop him to his belly from there which will usually result in a penalty. Dark arts indeed.