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Well in the unlikely event of the 6Natins happening I expect Liam will be banned so no Lions for him. Sinkler must be pretty much nailed on to tour if fit and on form.
Loopy is a cracking player with that extra bit of magic in his feet. shame about the lack of anything between the ears. Its not his first red card for foul play.
Idly flicking thru rugby videos on youtube I found a clip of Peter Stringer thumping martin Johnson. Johnson didn't realise it was him, thumped someone else and got penalised. Is stringer the epitome of the stroppy wee git of a 9?
stroppy wee git of a 9?
Mike Phillips could start a fight in a empty room.
Morgan Parra is the worlds biggest shithouse to ever wear the 9 shirt.
Sinkler has been cited
As regards scrum halfs - some seem to be natural shithouses but for some its an art form. Cussitor was not a stroppy wee get naturally but boy did he make an art form of winding up opposition especially forwards - and then when they tried to thump him he hid behind big Jim Hamiliton
Match of the year? Has to be Argentina beating the all blacks and this image is my moment of the year. thats when we knew the pumas were going to win
Unexpected result of the year must go to this match.
Sinkler banned for 2 weeks
Good! I met a guy in a hostel once that was at Epsom college at the same time as Sinkler....Sinkler was there on a rugby scholarship I'm guessing.....it was a bit of a clash of cultures apparently 😂
Hmm has my edit become a new post?
Good! I met a guy in a hostel once that was at Epsom college at the same time as Sinkler….Sinkler was there on a rugby scholarship I’m guessing…..it was a bit of a clash of cultures apparently 😂
Got to make sure these state school types know their place, eh?
I guess it could have been the case! Dunno really.....it's a far detached world from where I grew up (in the poorest part of Stoke).
Any word on 6n's yet?
French have agreed to play the first round and hope that a solution can be found for the rest. they play italy first
Ah right! I can't imagine that either of those two are overly keen on paying a visit to #plagueisland
I think the Sinckler thing is bullshit.
I'm all for refs not getting abuse but there seems to be a massive double standard. When a referee cocks up when a dangerous tackle is involved I think it's fair to bring it to his attention. If he had just said 'Are you kidding me?' would it have been alright?
If it's the fact that he said 'f***ing' then refs are going to spend more time sending people of than actually looking at the game.
At the same time sarcastic comments made after perfectly correct decisions does far more to bring the game into disrepute.
It does smack of making sure the outsider knows his place. #RugbyValues and all that.
I think Sinklers outburst maybe worth a yellow. to ban him seems harsh as thats treating it as a red. Its a bit different to Hartley calling the ref an effing cheat.
I think it would have been worth a yellow or possibly even a red if he had been objecting to a technical infringement.
However, it's very different when he's objecting to dangerous play that the ref had just waved on. That kind of thing has to be highlighted any way you can.
I think Sinklers ban is about right.
Loopy on the other seems to have got off very lightly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55606524
Is there going to be a separate hearing for the citation for his comments to the referee?
Is there going to be a separate hearing for the citation for his comments to the referee?
"Are we playing touch now" or words to that effect dont seem citable to me, did he say anything else? I'll be honest I only watched the first 20mins, got bored and did something else so missed the incident.
3 weeks for loopy when he has previous is a bit light IMO
“Are we playing touch now” or words to that effect dont seem citable to me,
IMO they are worse than 'Are you ****ing serious?'
As I said, if Sinckler had said it in relation to a forward pass, offside, or other technical infringement then go ahead and give him a yellow or even a red.
However, the ref had just said there was nothing wrong with a piece of obviously dangerous play. Heat of the moment, frustration, fear, whatever, I can understand it and on review it turned out he was correct and the ref had cocked up.
Loopy Liam made a petulant sarcastic comment after he was the culprit in some very dangerous play. He questioned the authority of the ref in a way that was completely unacceptable and if you're going to do Sinckler you have to do everyone else who questions the referees competence on the field.
You could even make the case that something like when Rob Harley was counting down at each ruck, 'Five, four, three, two, one, zero, minus one, minus two...' he was calling the refs competency into question in a sarcastic manner and should have been carded.
Unless your objection is that he swore in which case we should get ready for every game to finish with three players on the pitch.
Bruce, just to be clear the ref shouts he wrapped and Sinkler shouts are you ****ing serious at the ref is fine but Liam saying are we playing touch now is not? Thats some impressive mental gymnastics 😄😄😄😄👍
I can understand it and on review it turned out he was correct and the ref had cocked up.
Was that at the time or later? I don't remember a review at the time.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bristol-bears-star-kyle-sinckler-4882713
After looking at the incident on with the TMO, referee Dickson - who was a former team mate of Sinckler's at Harlequins for five years, decided to award a penalty against Cowan-Dickie for the tackle, with neither the Bristol or Exeter player punished further.
AA, I know this involves a Welsh player so there is little point in asking you to be objective but Sinckler was cited for 'failing to respect the authority of the match official', correct?
Mitigation seems to be in fashion when it comes to bans so lets compare Sinckler's incident with Williams' incident and see if we can figure out which player lost his cool for a second and which one took the time out of his busy schedule to tell the ref he couldn't do his job.
Sinckler was on the receiving end of an illegal hit. The ref said, 'It was fine, play on' and Sinckler said, 'Are you ****ing serious?' whilst still lying on the floor after the illegal hit as play continued.
Williams performed and incredibly stupid illegal hit. There was the usual TMO reviews, time for everyone to get a drink, time for Williams to reflect on what a ****ing idiot he had been, before he was finally shown the red card.
He then said, not once but twice, 'We playing touch now then?'
One of these incidents involved a player in the heat of the moment who had just been fouled reacting to the ref telling him it was fine when it quite clearly wasn't.
The other was a sarcastic petulant comment directly challenging the refs authority after a piece of serious illegal play.
You tell me which player is bringing the game into disrepute here.
Also, this is what Sinckler had to say on twitter that evening.
"Want to apologise for my reaction today. Not the example I want to be setting. Heat of the moment stuff. Will make a conscious effort to improve. My bad.”
Williams' ban was mitigated for showing remorse, yes. I haven't been able to find his apology for questioning the refs authority, can you help me find it?
Sanjay’s biscuits were obviously better.
Still doesn’t excuse either for being a knobber, but I can’t argue the Liam was the bigger one.
The independent disciplinary panel said:
“Kyle Sinckler accepted that he used foul language at the Referee
So swearing at the ref is fine, ok. I will have to completely disagree with youon every level. Liam is a ****, no doubt but nothing will convince me that incident is a as bad as swearing at the ref.
Williams’ ban was mitigated for showing remorse, yes. I haven’t been able to find his apology for questioning the refs authority, can you help me find it?
Maybe he did it in private? Who really cares, he didnt swear at the ref
Yes, because only the wrong sort of people swear.
And of course, those kind of people should understand that if they want to play our game they have to have certain standards.
I'm sure he knows his place now.
Yes, because only the wrong sort of people swear.
And of course, those kind of people should understand that if they want to play our game they have to have certain standards.
I’m sure he knows his place now.
And you accuse me of being blinkered! Its comical, it really is!
Are you going to try to make out Liam was dealt with so leniently due to his posh background 😆😆😆😆😁😆😆😄
There aren't any Scots involved in this so who exactly am I blinkered towards?
Are you going to try to make out Liam was dealt with so leniently due to his posh background
No, I'm saying that Sinckler was dealt with harshly because he's black.
Is Sanjay posh?
I thought that he was a brickie or something like that before going pro?
There aren’t any Scots involved in this so who exactly am I blinkered towards?
I can only think you must have some axe to grind to make youbtake up such a ludicrous position.
I thought that he was a brickie or something like that before going pro?
Scaffolder I seem to recall.
No, I’m saying that Sinckler was dealt with harshly because he’s black.
Funny you hadnt mentioned that till now if it was your point.
Can you point out all he non blacks swearing at refs who get off free?
Parisse didnt.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jctFmWJ6wyE
Nor did Hartley
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV-aM3j0kg
Calm down calm down!
I think that Bruces point is that Sinkler did it in the heat of the moment, Williams did it deliberately a few mins after. Hence one is premeditated one not. I don't agree that makes Williams worse but its a valid point
This isn't going to end well is it!
I vote truce and reconvene tomorrow with some arguements about Lions XV's
Why are you obsessed with swearing? Are you 7 or something?
Once you get a bit older maybe you'll realise that the intent behind words is actually more important than the words themselves.
Sinckler lost his self control for a moment after the ref cocked up a call involving a dangerous tackle.
Williams blatantly questioned the refs authority. He didn't swear but he left the ref in no doubt he didn't respect his decision.
As I said, if swearing is the problem then we're going to finish a lot of matches with two players on the pitch because I hear swearing all the time in live games.
But if the black guy swears all of a sudden it's a two week ban.
Ok, swearing at the ref is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is a racist does that make you feel better? A key point of rugby is that you respect he
ref as a player, obviously this is lost on you, fine just dont expect me to agree.
Hartley got a healthy ban for calling the ref an effing cheat 11 weeks
Hence one is premeditated one not. I don’t agree that makes Williams worse but its a valid point
Liam.... Premeditated? Now thats funny 😆😆😆
Don't be an arse AA.
Ok, swearing at the ref is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is a racist does that make you feel better? A key point of rugby is that you respect he
ref as a player, obviously this is lost on you, fine just dont expect me to agree.
Please point out where I said swearing at the ref was fine. I already said that if he had said the same thing after a dodgy call on a forward pass or some other technical infringement then a yellow or even a red would have been fine.
He'd just been hit by a dangerous tackle and the ref said play on. That's a major cock up by the ref and he knew it which is most likely why Sinckler didn't get punished at the time.
The #RugbyValues crowd get a hold of it and all of a sudden it's a two week ban while other players question the ref's authority and swear in almost every game.
Rugby still has a racism problem and this is a manifestation of that.
other players question the ref’s authority and swear in almost every game.
Question the ref, fine, swear, fine. Swear at ref, not fine slapped wrist.
If racism drove the ban what drove Hartleys red or Parisse's?
Question the ref, fine, swear, fine. Swear at ref, not fine slapped wrist.
That's one of the stupider things I've heard you say and that's saying something.
If racism drove the ban what drove Hartleys red or Parisse’s?
I don't know about Parrisse's red but to me it doesn't look like it involved dangerous play.
In Hartley's case he called the ref a ****ing cheat and it didn't involve dangerous play. Forget the swearing, calling the ref a cheat is enough to get you sent off. If you call the ref a cheat you've gone beyond questioning his authority and you are saying he cannot referee the game. At that point you have to go off.
I'm a strong believer in respecting the referee's authority. If the scrum half does an american football pass to the winger who is three feet in touch who then drops the ball, scoops it up, and puts it down a foot short of the line and the referee gives the try then tough shit, it's a try and you don't get to question him on the field. Any back chat should be 10 meters and a card if it continues.
The exception to this is dangerous play. If you believe the referee is allowing dangerous play you have a duty to speak up. Sinckler chose the wrong way to do so but he was right to bring it to the ref's attention and he was proved correct. It was dangerous play and the ref had missed it.
Williams' showed the worst kind of disrespect towards the ref. He didn't make a technical infringement, he made a really dangerous charge and could have caused serious injury. He was completely in the wrong, the ref was completely in the right, and he felt the need to challenge his authority anyway.
If a player has that little respect for the safety of his opponents and that little respect for the person who ensures that safety standards are followed then he should have some extra time off to consider his actions.
Instead he was given a reduction for showing remorse.
Anyway, I'm off to bed now.
The exception to this is dangerous play. If you believe the referee is allowing dangerous play you have a duty to speak up. Sinckler chose the wrong way to do so but he was right to bring it to the ref’s attention and he was proved correct. It was dangerous play and the ref had missed it.
Williams’ showed the worst kind of disrespect towards the ref. He didn’t make a technical infringement, he made a really dangerous charge and could have caused serious injury. He was completely in the wrong, the ref was completely in the right, and he felt the need to challenge his authority anyway.
So the disrespect you can display to the ref depends on what others are doing in the game? Righto!
Question the ref, fine, swear, fine. Swear at ref, not fine slapped wrist.
That’s one of the stupider things I’ve heard you say and that’s saying something.
Whys that then?
So the disrespect you can display to the ref depends on what others are doing in the game? Righto!
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. It doesn't bear any relation to what I said.
Whys that then?
Well, obviously I can't go back through all your contributions to check but it's so stupid that surely it must be up there amongst the stupidest things you've said.
If you'd said many things that are more ill-conceived, immature, and absolutist with no concrete ties to reality I'd be surprised but I'm always open to the idea I could be wrong.
*Ding Ding*
Round 2
Cameron Redpath in the Scotland squad. thats a real coup for Scotland
Cameron Redpath in the Scotland squad. thats a real coup for Scotland
From what I've seen he looks too be an exciting player.
what is the latest on the 6Nations?
Wow! He was fairly 'English' for the first 20 years of his life. He had a fairly abrupt departure from Sale....not really seen how he's been going for Bath, but I'm guessing pretty well if he's in the Scotland squad.
I have to say, I thought that he was really over rated. He was awful whenever he started for Sale, but was incredibly young. Also, seemed like a 15/10 rather than a centre to me! Actually, the best I ever saw him play was 10 minutes at scrum half when Faf had been sin binned!
I could be wrong.
Clearly.
Welsh squad looks weak. 3rd choice ospreys Loosehead in squad!! With Nicky Smith and Rob Evans injured we are a bit screwed.
Glad to see Redpath choose Scotland it would have been like Moriarty choosing England had he not!!
apologies
From what I hear Redpath was genuinely torn on which country to go for. We all thought he had settled on England but it seems not. I guess silence from Jones helped tip him
Tom-B Free Member
I know right? Born in France to Scottish parents, almost as English as the VP brothers.
Born in France to Scottish parents, almost as English as the VP brothers.
Bad example, they are welsh!!
England Six Nations squad
Backs: Elliot Daly, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Ollie Lawrence, Max Malins, Jonny May, Paolo Odogwu, Harry Randall, Dan Robson, Henry Slade, Anthony Watson, Ben Youngs.Forwards: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Tom Curry, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Joe Marler, Beno Obano, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola, Harry Williams, Mark Wilson.
Shadow squad:
Charlie Atkinson, Ali Crossdale, Tom Dunn, Charlie Ewels, George Furbank, Joe Heyes, Jonathan Joseph, Joe Marchant, George Martin, Alex Mitchell, Jacob Umaga, Jack Willis.
AA: My point entirely.
Harry Randall was welsh qualified but has chosen Mordor I see. Sensible really, 9 is their biggest weakness by far.
Scarlets blues on S4c now. English commentary available too.
No sanction or even review for leading with forearm and making contact with the head?
Yeah I was surprised it wasnt looked at, The Blues try looked like a massive forward pass too.
Jiffy Junior totally outplayed by Ray Lee lo, going to be a long six nations for Wales fans I fear.
Good away win for Ospreys, amazing the difference a half decent coach makes
It was an odd game. Connacht seemed to fade badly or did Ospreys just take a while to get into their stride?
Matt Protheroe looks really handy Seen him a few times this year
It was an odd game. Connacht seemed to fade badly or did Ospreys just take a while to get into their stride?
Massive homer ref and the Ospreys front row being very much second best let Connacht back in. Changed front row for second half and then dominated them.
Looked after the ball better too.
Its always the ref!
Matt Protheroe? he has impressed me in a couple of game. Is he welsh?
Matt Protheroe? Is he welsh?
Born in Swansea, played for Hartpury, Gloucester, Bristol, now Ospreys.
Played for England at U18 and U20.
Mercenary decisions will need to be made at some point.
Maler, Launchbury and Underhill out for England 😟
Underhill big loss, his tackling allows others to compete for the ball.
Marler, even though a weapons grade bell end, will be a big loss also, especially with Mako Vunipola out as well.
Its always the ref!
Tbf having a pro league with a ref who lives a mile from the home teams ground and played for the home team as well as all the assistants being irish is not a good look.
We need some half decent scots refs to even things up...get those boots on Duckman!!
Aye its not a good look. But it is funny how welsh defeat or poor performances are always down to the ref! A rugby forum I am on is full of this. Scotland beating Wales was down to the ref according to them
But it is funny how welsh defeat or poor performances are always down to the ref
It was a cracking performance, first win away in ireland in ages!
A rugby forum I am on is full of this. Scotland beating Wales was down to the ref according to them
Must be true then, never happens with other teams.
Never again, haven't even missed doing local school/club games. Sam Gove-White will be moving up the Scottish ref food chain if he sticks it.
With all the injuries withdrawals and discontent in the England camp are the scots favourites yet? Or still dark horses 😉
I'm sure Andy Nicol thinks so!!
Andy Nichol thinks?
Carwyn Tuipulotu on the bench for Scarlets this weekend.
He might find it tougher playing against grown ups but he does show promise!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V6t6jDXM9Hg
Bristol shredding Bath. Faletau on after 20mins which isnt good for Wales.
Bristol shredding Bath.
Listening to this on radio Bristol - sounds entertaining, especially if you're a Bristol fan.
Josh Adams out for 2 games fir being a stupid ****.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55925119