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Well thats Prime cancelled!!
So how did we all do. Wales still shit no structure, no clue and no hope. England still very good but no progress I dont think, backs look a bit blunt without Tuilagi. France seem to be on the up and going places, Ireland going backwards, great pack little else and half backs aging. Scotland same old same old, Wales going back shouldnt hide that they arent going forward. Italy...slightly worse than Wales.
The teams split into two groups IMO over the autumn. Scotland and France used it to try out players - Scotland used 39 players this autumn. England Ireland and Wales went first choice as much as they could. Not sure about Italys selections - would you agree?
Scotland - tried out some combos and got a few guys debuts or back into the squad but some puzzles are no nearer solution - our best centre combo and back row combo
We beat Wales in Wales for the first time in 18 years - the only highpoint much tempered by the fact they broke out players - again!
One thing is clear. Townsend is not a international coach indeed we will not get any better with him at the helm
Scotland used 39 players this autumn. England Ireland and Wales went first choice as much as they could.
Wales used 40 apparently.
For me:
France look great and are exciting to watch.
England have a lot of strength, but they are somewhat complacent and perhaps one dimensional.
Wales are adrift, some promising new players, but a few rather old and broken. To my uneducated eyes, we have great players from numbers 6 to 15, but the players 1 to 5 are not to the same standard?
Scotland continue to improve. If they can just convince 3 or 4 more South Africans to come over they could be formidable.
I’m not sure what to make of Ireland. Kinda feels that Ireland and Wales together could make a good team, but they’d need a more experienced coach than either have.
Italy are exciting to watch and are imho making progress, they just need to be able to sustain it. Why they cannot I’m not sure, lack of depth I suppose.
Wales went first choice as much as they could
Sometimes I wonder if you watch any games, Wales have capped 240 000 new players this autumn.
Sheedy
Lloyd
Hardy
Botham
SLH
JBR Williams
Off the top of my head
Wales used 40 apparently.
SLH, Botham in a few years time, JBR Williams and Zammit look decent.
Scotland continue to improve
Errmmm - nope - we continue to regress or tread water at best. think back to 2017 and the great rugby we were playing even pushing NZ close and over that period we beat everyone ranked above us bar NZ and SA I think 4th in the rankings? Its a while now since we beat anyone above us.
surprised about the number of players Wales used. I stand corrected
Another one wondering what games you've been watching tj.
42 players used by Ireland.
Loads of new caps. New captain. New coaches.
Loads of combination experimentation.
Murray at 10.
Some things worked, lots didn't.
And a weird perseverance with Stockdale at fb.
Still better than Scotland, and can't beat England and France away.
And a weird perseverance with Stockdale at fb.
I really dont get that one at all!
Well, England vs France was a lot more exiting than I gave it credit for before the game. Great performance by the French kids, they managed to prove their worth convincingly for me and England were lucky to pull the win out of the bag.
Another cracking result by the Falcons against Wasps on Saturday. We've definitely lost the element of surprise against the Premiership big boys but our awesome lineout (100% on our own throw yet again, couple of Wasps throws stolen), strong scrum and hunger to win making the difference yet again. With a good kicking performance from Toby Flood this week adding the points we've got a really strong package. Who'd have thought we'd be 3 for 3 after playing Bath, Sale and Wasps? Next game on Friday for us is against Cardiff Blues in the ECC. Our next Premiership game isn't until we play Leicester on Boxing day at 'home'. What chance of a crowd at Kingston Park? We're in tier 3 at the moment so no hope of even the limited numbers that other teams will be enjoying - reviewed on the 16th I think.
How about your teams? Good weekend? Who've you got next?
Both Edinburgh and Glasgow have been totally stuffed by playing the pro14 during the autumn cup. We always lose loads of players to the national side but usually get some guys back for pro 14 games to get them match time if they don't play for the national side. this year we cannot do that because of covid bubbles and the timings of games. Glasgow are missing 24 players due to internationals and injury.
Both are already stuggling to get into european cup places!
England were lucky to pull the win out of the bag
Really? I wouldn't call that luck, I'd call it a good game.
Farrell had an off day with the boot and missed nine points before the end of regular time that he'd normally slot. France showed that they've finally got some depth again and you can see the influence of Shaun Edwards defence. Their defence on the line was very impressive to hold out multiple driving phases and not give up penalties. The France set piece has also improved a lot and they had some discipline. England did what all good teams should do, find a way to win even if it's not your best day. They regrouped at half-time and were more savvy about territory, kept France in their half at significant points and kept the pressure on them.
Not lucky in that luck won them a game but lucky in that they got the refs decisions go their way - the knock on that wasn't and so on. England looked toothless in attack. The game plan seemed to be just to kick the ball and wait for errors / play for penalties.
Farrell had an off day with the boot and missed nine points before the end of regular time that he’d normally slot.
apart from he is only kicking at 75% or so. His kicking has dropped off but he still is a good bet for the real pressure ones
Jesus christ the video with Alix Popham here is a tough watch.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237
huge implications for rugby because it look like its not just the serious blows to the head that cause this but all those repeated minor impacts and whiplashes so all tackling let alone ruck clearouts
Rucks are a nightmare...
Even a conventional low tackle seems able to give the micro trauma that ends up with dementia
I have wondered for a while if all the ex rugby players with MND are also (partly) attributed to trauma. I do not know but it does seem incidence of MND in rugby players is high
Rugby players are too big now. Reducing the number of subs would make a difference & reducing contact in training but I'm not sure what else can give done.
Lowering tackle height, raising ruck entry, bring back proper rucking and stop the jackal
Just been on the BBC news. Not sure what to think. It’s not even the nanny state stuff boxing goes through every few years, the actual former players bringing legal action for negligence is massive. Be interesting to see the views of current players in the coming days.
The bit that sticks out for me is Thompson saying that after a 'poor' club training session shortly after the game had gone pro, they were made to do 100 live scrums......that is ****ing batshit!
lowering tackle height will not really help as its not just the head hits, its the whiplash and hitting the ground.
It will not help in absolute terms but will in the amount of times it occurs, players will also struggle to put in the big hits if they have to go low, think Lydiate from a few years back with chop tackles, him going low around the legs was unusual, most tackles should be like that
I think the problem is that in order to reduce the risks you have to make the game less spectacular.
They have to figure out a way of keeping the players moving more. With the way defenses are at the moment and the amount of time allowed to get set up for set pieces and penalties most of the team have enough time to catch their breath in order to put in the next massive hit.
If they players had to move more they would be required to have a greater aerobic capacity which would reduce the size and power of the players. You'd still get freaks like Lomu but they would be the exception rather than the rule.
Quite how you do that I don't know but one way to start would be to do away with time offs. You could still have a TMO looking for dangerous play but the decisions on penalties, tries, etc should be made by the officials on the field. Also, strictly limit the time for line outs, penalties, scrums, etc so that that the players were having to jog to each set piece and get stuck straight in.
Not sure if there is any appetite for that but if it's a choice between having unspectacular rugby and no rugby I know which one I'd choose.
I think the problem is that in order to reduce the risks you have to make the game less spectacular.
I'm not sure, lowering the hits would make offloads easier, open up the game and see some running.
bring back proper rucking
This 100%, rucks are a nightmare at the moment. And ban that stupid caterpillar while we're at it!
Cracking win from Scarlets
Glasgow Exeter game a little predictable. Exeter are some machine! Couple of great counter rucks taking the ball off Glasgow which is rare these days. Not all just thud and blunder as well.
This season is just a write off for the scots teams. Crippled in the pro 14 by international callups, rotten fixtures in the euro cup. I think neither team will have anything left to play for after this weekend
Ireland Scotland same group again. With SA. And due to play NZ next round if they get second spot. Or France. Another short WC...
Wales Oz and Fiji same group again too
ywes that really works great for us
If they took the seedings now we would be in tier 2 and wales in 3.
Seedings taken a year before the draw 3 years out from the world cup. Crazy.
ywes that really works great for us
If they took the seedings now we would be in tier 2 and wales in 3.
There’s no ideal time really though is there? Wales have been fortunate in the timing, but things could change significantly again after the 6 nations and several times again before the World Cup starts. If you want to ensure a good draw, you have to play well consistently.
I understand how it works but it has produced some really topsy turvey groups as a result
Wales v Fiji in France what could possibly go wrong!!
This:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/sep/28/exeter-rob-baxter-end-coronavirus-tests-rugby-players
plus this:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/55279380
equals this:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/55279380
**** the Exeter Racists!
Did they even watch the match? No way did any Glasgow player get within 2 metres of an Exeter player at any point.
You've put the same link up twice in your first post Brucewee
Shambles though.....it's why, for me at least, I've got very little interest in any of it currently.
My opinion Exeter should be the club facing punishment since the outbreak occurred amongst their staff/players. That said 28-0 maybe about the right scoreline for Lyon V Glasgow anyway.
Anybody see the Sale game? Now I don't buy into the "Poitre hates Scotland" theory. But if I did I would use that game yesterday as my evidence. The first Sale try, the one he wanted to give and the "only a yellow."
Edinburgh got away with daylight robbery there. Hard to argue it shouldn't have been a red tho - citing commissioner will sort it.
A friend who is a season ticket holder at Gloucester got tickets in the ballot, very strict, had to turn up a set time, 2 hrs before kick off. Shown to seats etc etc, they had a good win.
Cipps has left, which I guess is the end of his career in any meaningful way, very talented but it never really happened for him
Ospreys winning away which makes me happy.
Have just looked at the Glasgow back line and thought it consists of Ho, Hum, average, prospect, workmanlike, dreary, and Price.
Forwards a wee bit better
Should have gone out on the bike instead of listening to that, dull as dishwater. Edinburgh 10 Glasgow 7
it wasn't the best of games. Not even a proper punch up!
Gerwyn Price darts world champ used to a hooker playing for Neath, that is pretty cool
Lions!
this is the BBC viewers / RUW magazine lions team. thoughts?
RUW picks in brackets where it differs from the BBC
Mako V, George, Furlong
Itoje, Ryan
Curry, Billy V, Underhill
Murrey ( Youngs)
Russell
Farrell, Davies ( Tuilagi)
May, Watson, Hogg
Interesting that Farrell comes in at 12 - IMO playing him outside Russell would be stupid - I just do not see them working together well at all. For me Farrell is 10 or not on the pitch,
for me the most questionable picks tho are Mako V - not a good enough scrummager and George - too slow. Dunno who else at loosehead mind you but at Hooker I would have McInally - I think his pace ( he is faster than Farrell) and his ability over the ball gets him the place but he has not been at his best this year
Of course we still have the 6N to play and players could both make a real case for themselves or put themselves out of contention. One to watch out for is Scott Cummings at lock and Big Ritchie in his one game back for Glasgow looked utter class.
Who of your favourites would you have?
Nothing wrong with George selection, good hooker. Haven't seen mako prescribed lately, that unit have done a great job on some to European packs.
But Cowandickie is key to the best pack in the prem and always seems to be best forward whenever I see them play in Europe. I'd have him ahead.
Jones must know his stuff, but it's the sort of thing gatland would do too, pick England's second choice and make it work better than Jones selection.
Kelleher as bolter for 3rd hooker squad place if he proves his darts.
Porter will go for sure. Probably second best prop on either side on Ireland at the mo. If he gets a good run focusing on loose, could turn out to be best.
Only one Welsh player is fair, but they pick one that hasnt played well since he was injured at the world cup. I doubt he will return to that level. He has Tuilagi in brackets next to him and he's permanently crocked too. I'm a big fan of Watson but he hasnt done much recently either.
I dont think Russel will start tests (shame) but if he does you have to put some creativity in the rest of the team eg the likes of Tips or Faletau in the backrow a 9 who is a threat ball in hand, again I could think of some welsh examples but I'm sure others are available, is Murray even Irelands best 9?
AA - I tend to agree about Russell but not just he needs creativity around him - he needs players who know his game. Mind you we have the same issue in Scotland as Townsend keeps on playing stodgy centres outside him!
I can second TJ's opinion of Cummings. He is a horrible shite of a second row, but the first choice pairing is exceptional so he will be fighting dangleberry for a bench spot.I don't think Russell will start but I do think Rory Sunderland will. Don't rate Underhill or VP much either in that back row and would have either Simmons or Falateau at 8 and Stander or Watson at 7.
Sutherland at Loosehead?
No TJ; stand off instead of Russell!
Who would you have as Lions captain? for me it has to be a forward or a half back - and someone who is a cert for a start. So for me Itoje. He has got his aggression under control and he really is a superb player. I do wonder about Itoje in the back row as we have loads of class locks to chose from.
Lols at Duckman - crossed posts - yours was not there when I posted mine! Mind you Sutherland at 10 might be fun. He does have a good step and good hands
He has an outrageous show and go! I hope he plays into form and if he does Davies captain. Itoje or Ryan or Falateau for leading the real men. I think Itoje has the intelligence and ability to do it, but he can't stop himself doing the crappy over the top celebration when he wins so much as a put in...which is why his nose got mysteriously broken against Glasgow last year.
I think Itoje has much improved his attitude / discipline over the last year and in that game he had Ryan Wilson niggling him all game so he did well not to lose his cool and get a yellow.
😂😂😂
TJ and Duckmans Lions XV
1. A Scottish player
2. A Scottish player
3. A Scottish player
4. A Scottish player
5. A Scottish player
6. A Scottish player
7. A Scottish player
8. A Scottish player
9. A Scottish player
10. A Scottish player
11. A Scottish player
12. A Scottish player
13. A Scottish player
14. A Scottish player
15. A Scottish player
On a more serious note.....South Africa haven't played since the WC final! The Sarries players (probably half a dozen in the Lions squad) will realistically only play this season in the 6N's which itself must be under some threat?
Post 2019 world cup I can remember really looking forward to the Lions....World Cup winners versus what should be a very strong Lions side. Hardly shaping up to be much of a spectacle is it?
Gatlands Lions XV
1.Not A Scottish player
2. Not A Scottish player
3. Not A Scottish player
4. Not A Scottish player
5. Not A Scottish player
6. Not A Scottish player
7. Not A Scottish player
8. Not A Scottish player
9. Not A Scottish player
.
.
.
.
.
.
23. A token Scottish player probably a non scottish one like Maitland or that Saffer winger who is off to Worcester
Tom b's Lions.
1 to 15 Master race.
Bench;token provincials.
Love to see you Enger-land supporters make a case for your players. But apparently you were only a front row injury from beating the Lions opposition last year....
tom B
1 Sutherland
2 McInally
3 Fagerson
4 Big Ritchie
5 Cummings
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 token non scot
9 Some wee bastard of a welshman
10 Russell
11 duhan the monster
12 token pacific islander
13 token englishman
14 another wee bastard welshman known as loopy
15 Didier Hoggba
In all seriousness a lot of the top Scots are in positions where there is either a lot of competition or their style does not suit Gatland. I am a big fan of outright pace and you get a lot of that from the scots but I think Gatland will be looking for the bludgeon not the rapier against SA
I doubt we will see many Scots get first team starts but a decent number could / should be in the squad but as ever a good 6N is needed
realist contenders would be Z Fagerson, Sutherland, Schoeman, Gray x2 ( Cummings does not have the track record but could force his way into contention) Watson and Ritchie ( both too small for Gatland tho). All in positions where there are plenty of good options tho.
Russell and Hogg should be in the team
One interesting stat ( read on the net and not checked) Scotland did not lose a single scrum in the 6N. that says something about the current strength of the scots scrum
Since the tournament seems quite unlikely to go ahead, I’m not sure if there’s much to be had in coming up with a Lions team, but it is interesting. I’ve listened to and seen a number of commentator’s suggestions and they are just as biased as everyone on here for including there country’s players. Ugo Monye for example would no doubt have almost all England players.
So, can you answer these questions and help me decide as you are all far more knowledgeable than me.
Why did Wales come closer to beating SA in the World Cup than England? Wales were hanging on by a thread, whilst England had just played ‘the greatest game of rugby ever seen’ (or something to that effect).
What game plan do we foresee Gatland using to beat SA? a) outmuscle them/beat them at their own game. b) flair and pace, a sort of NZ approach c) a combination of both d) something else?
How many will be in the squad? It might be easier to pick a squad than the test team. No doubt form in the 6Nations will play a large part.
Players who will almost certainly go:
M Itoje
O Farrell
J May
Players I’d personally like to see go:
J Tipuric
J Adams
L Halfpenny
F Russell
D Biggar
H Watson
LR Zammit
G Davies/T Williams
Gauss - I think Gatland will go for the outmuscle them option. England being clearly the best team should have the most representation.
It might be easier to pick a squad but its more fun to pick a team 🙂 I actually think that BBC team is not far off
Okay, for what it’s worth (nowt😂)here’s my team:
1. Ellis Genge
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. James Ryan
6. Josh Navidi
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Talupe Falatau
9. Tomos Williams
10. Finn Russell
11. Johnny May
12. Johnny Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Josh Adams
15. Leigh Halfpenny
😂😂😂
Surely you can shoehorn loopy liam in there?
Ah...just remembered who gauss is! Don't feed him TJ.
Ah…just remembered who gauss is! Don’t feed him TJ.
Remember me? What did I do?
Surely you can shoehorn loopy liam in there?
I’d sooner have Halfpenny in the team, he’s been playing very well recently imho and it wouldn’t hurt to have his kicking skills available. I know you say Russell can kick, but I’ve not seen him take crucial kicks in big games. Halfpenny is ‘frosty’.
Oh FFS - soapdodgers v luvvies postponed because of an unplayable pitch. Rugby has officially gone soft. I mean whats a bit of snow and ice? When I were a lad.................
Loopy Liam regressing to his previous self, long ban incoming!!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1348003125509107714
I loved the comment from the commentators - ( I paraphrase)
"A clash of heads there - mind you Williams will be OK as there is nothing in his head"
A particularly stupid one as the player he hit was not blocking the ball and was not on his feet. Loopy Liam shall be for ever his name.
Anyone seen that clip of the French game where the player lifts the ref up as though he was a lineout jumper, then the ref red cards him?!
Saw it on twitter, I'll see if I can find it again.....no idea what was going on?!
EDIT:
https://twitter.com/JonnyWis/status/1347661906962690055?s=20
So on second viewing it was the final whistle, and after doing a weird little dance, he lifted him up like a toddler trophy 😳 Weird incarnation of 'roid rage'?
He was sacked by Stade Francais over sexual assault allegations...
Loopy Liam regressing to his previous self, long ban incoming!!
Could you hear what he said to the ref as he walked off? I rewound it a couple of times but couldn’t get it.
Are we playing touch now or words to that effect.
Two lions according to posters on this thread.