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Knew there would be a Scottish victory this year. 😉
Hogg/May/Williams/Zammit he is shipping clever offloads to instead of whoever Bath have out wide that week.
Which helps me explain why those stats TJ talks about aren't helpful. Wales use Tips and Faletau out wide in attack Scotland use Watson through the middle, this means T and F get better carrying stats as the are running into less defenders and smaller ones and get more space. In defence they work differently too. Neither T or F go for many turnovers, that's a team job now, whereas Watson is more focussed on that so he gets more turnovers but completes less tackles.
All these names suggested for the back row are undoubtedly great players. It’s a struggle to know who Gatland will go for.
The stats don’t give you a great picture of what skill-set each player brings.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydZful_AnYc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPy7nwPtGc
From what I see JT has a skill-set unmatched by the others named. Hamish Watson is like a human pinball, making his way through by bouncing everyone off him. Whom is better is debatable I guess.
Stats are from here https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/
of course they don't tell you everything but its a useful indicator
IIRC Tips also made 22 m from a kick! Not many forwards do that.
this means T and F get better carrying stats as the are running into less defenders and smaller ones and get more space.
Only watsons stats are better despite Tips farting about pretending he is a back 🙂
loum
Free Member
Knew there would be a Scottish victory this year. 😉
Thanks, We will keep it next to the Calcutta cup.
That first Tipuric try was amazing.
I wish we had forwards that played like that.
See how Sexton was fully committed to stopping him and the offload was so unexpected, then he wrongfooted the last defender. Proper rugby.
Only watsons stats are better
Er
Tips 112 m in 22 carries, 86 tackles made, 2 missed turnovers won 3, conceded 1. broken tackles 1 pens conceded 1
the Mish 321 m in 67 carries.
Tip 5m per carry
Watson 4.8 per carry
112 m 22 carries. 321 m 67 carries. Even lurking in the backs looking for easy yardage he don't do much.
Surely he should be getting 20+ m a carry not a pathetic 0.2 m more than a man doing that hard work. shows lurking out in the backs pretending you are one of the pretty boys don't work if you want to be considered as a forward.
😉
One thing I thought I noticed in the highlights for each was that almost all Tipuric’s moves ended in tries, whilst a lot of Watson’s cut away as they came to nothing.
Media bias!
How many tries this series?
So hard to compare them, they are both totally different players mainly be they play in different systems. Suspect they would be similar if they played in the same system. Tipuric is a ridiculous player all round though. Not many back pass as well as he does.
And Watson has been very impressive too just not sure he would be the sort of ball carrier you want running into SA. Think you either have to out muscle them over the gain line or play fast and around them.
One thing I thought I noticed in the highlights for each was that almost all Tipuric’s moves ended in tries, whilst a lot of Watson’s cut away as they came to nothing.
You have to remember one plays for Scotland
the one who SCORED A TRY THIS SERIES!
Squidge lions 15. Possibly a bit controversial
the one who SCORED A TRY THIS SERIES!
Who won a triple crown, again, to go with his grand slams?
Possibly a bit controversial
Not as controversial as the real list! I do not know what it will be (obv), but this is pretty much guaranteed.
I did smile when I heard Hogg say the other day (something like iirc) “apparently the choice is made on away form so Scotland players are in a good position”. Nobody had told him it’s a given you’re meant to win at home too 😂
Who won a triple crown, again, to go with his grand slams?
He who tried to look good loitering out in the backs trying to beat them up? He ain't pretty enough to be out there and he hasn't got the power of the mullett with him
Speculation on NH lions to include France. So 9 is settled then. Another winger to contemplate though and a back row or two.
Pretty sure that was an April’s fool joke
Aw bugger. I hate April fools.
I did like the idea. I’d like to see NH v SH.
The Watson one got me too.
😉
The funny bit about TJ trying to prove that Watson should be 7 over Tips is that if Tips were a Scot he'd be falling over himself with excitement that Scotland had another highly skilled attacking player to go with Hogg and Russell etc. He'd be the first name on any TJ Lions 15. One thing those highlights reels show is that Tips is, simply, an amazingly skilled player with huge rugby intelligence. He is a far more talented rugby player than Watson, but then he is and was a more talented player than Warburton who kept him out of the Welsh team for years. The question is do you need a talented rugby player at 7 or a a more powerful warrior type player.
I have never actually said Watson should go over Tips!both had great seasons.
I have never actually said Watson should go over Tips!both had great seasons.
Come on, don't spoil it 🤪😀😀😀😀😀🤪😉
If we’re all a little biased on who we’d choose, take a look at a pair of experts:
RYAN WILSON'S LIONS TEST XV
15. Stuart Hogg; 14. Louis Rees-Zammit, 13. Jonathan Davies, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Duhan van der Merwe; 10. Finn Russell, 9. Ali Price; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Ken Owens, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Tadhg Beirne, 5. Jonny Gray/Alun Wyn Jones, 6. Justin Tipuric, 7. Hamish Watson, 8. Taulupe Faletau.
MIKE PHILLIPS' LIONS TEST XV
15. Stuart Hogg; 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Jonathan Davies, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Louis Rees-Zammit; 10. Dan Biggar, 9. Conor Murray; 1. Wyn Jones, 2. Ken Owens, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. Alun Wyn Jones, 6. Tadhg Beirne, 7. Justin Tipuric, 8. Taulupe Faletau.
Wilson has 6 from Scotland. Phillips has 8 from Wales 😀
I’d replace JD2 with North in Phillip’s list and stick in Tomos Williams, Josh Navidi, Josh Adams and Liam Williams
If tips would get stuck in with the forwards instead of being a glory hunter out in the backs he might be a bit more effective mind you
Gauss - I also saw Jim Hamiltons and Goodes lions 15s as well as Zebos and Roberts on podcasts - all quite different
Hamilton went with Farrell at 10 and captain!
If tips would get stuck in with the forwards instead of being a glory hunter out in the backs he might be a bit more effective mind you
I'm sure his 2 grand slams and 4 Six Nations Championship winning caps will console him. How does that compare to Watson or even the entire Scotland squad? 😜
Gatland to name 36 man squad, so a lot of quality will miss out.
This place will be ballistic on May 6th when no Scots get picked in favour of BIL Cory Hill going on his second tour!!
Its not Watsons fault he is the best player in the team! How many grand slams would they each have had if tips played for Scotland and Watson for Wales?
There is very little between a lot of the players. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses. Farrell has a lot of experience. The only player for me who appeared significantly better than others in his position was Henshaw - but I’ve only seen him in this 6Nations
Ps
Cory Hill is a class player.
I saw a 10 min version of the second which was just the lions selections
Gatland to name 36 man squad, so a lot of quality will miss out.
How many is normal? Presumably that means versatile players take precedence? Can/will he call up more if needs be?
How many is normal?
About 40. Unless it's sir Clive in which case 50
April Fools was yesterday.
(Although that list isn't far off)
Watson player of the tournament!
Ha - take that pot noodle miner!
Watson player of the tournament!
Sympathy vote for perennial losers.
On a more serious note, how did Dupont not win?
Its a fans vote from a shortlist of 6 so always able to throw up odd results but watson got 35% of the vote. Must be the power of the mullett!
Dupont was maybe not quite as sparkling this 6N as we have seen him?
Dupont was maybe not quite as sparkling this 6N as we have seen him?
He yo yoed between amazeballs and very good imo
A shortlist of 6 with no England players who have the largest number of fans, and a split choice for Ireland and Wales. However, congratulations to him, he is indeed a very good player. Might he be an outside bet for Spoty?
So its a few hours since we had a row. 6N done and dusted. who are your lions?
I have been following loads of pundits selections. Its interesting how few players are in all / most teams.
this would be my starting 23.
Healy Owens Furlong
Itoje AWJ ( CPT) ( I still hate AWJ 🙂 but there is no doubt he had a great series and IMO cleaned up his game giving away less penalties)
Beirne, Watson, Faletou ( I think this is the toughest area to choose and i keep changing my mind indeed i changed it during writing this)
Murray Biggar
Henshaw North ( maybe??)
Van der merwe, Adams Hogg
subs - 6 /2 split
Sutherland, Cowan Dickie, Fagerson
Ryan Henderson
Tiperic
T williams, H jones ( covers centre and FB - Hogg is backup 10)
But for me the only nailed on players are Furlong, AWJ, Hogg, VDM
Not many england players there but this is a pick on mainly form with a bit of class. On form its hadr to argue for the english guys and I think the Sarries guys are out - poor in the 6N and no games left to play into contention
shoot me down!
I’m unclear if anyone is nailed on at present. Perhaps Faletau comes closest, but Gatland could choose someone unexpected like Sam Simmonds. A huge amount will no doubt depend on the non test games (forgetting injuries before then). Have these been decided upon yet?
I was contemplating both Simmonds and Underhill
No doubt Gatland will too.
Should I be more interested in the women’s 6Nations than I am? Which for a number of reasons, is close to zero.
I wouldnt pick Biggar and the only notable wtf in you team is
Van der merwe
He's the archetypal flat track bully and his defence is poor. Watson, May, Williams and maybe Zammit I would pick ahead of him.
The bench is a mess too
You'd want a backrow player like Navidi or Curry on the bench as they can play a cross the backrow effectively. Jones will struggle to get on the tour much less make the test 23.
I'm not sure Gatland has ever gone 6:2 on the bench so don't see him doing it now. He likes to have game changers to bring on the the backs, he seems to like contrasting 10's as well.
Underhill was replaced after 17mins for Bath yesterday, didn't see it but it doesn't sound ideal.
I have changed my mind about the bench - you are right. One less lock one more back row which would be navidi
its not who I think Melonhead will pick - its who I would
Nowt wrong with VDM defense. Gawd dammitt missed 9, VDM 3 VDM was the standout winger by a long way. top try scorer, top tackles broken, most m made of any of the contenders
I wanted a big strong winger and a mazy runner. No doubt tho loopy is in the mix - for me his discipline is too suspect.
do we know if Stander is available? I know he has retired from ireland and gone back to SA but he would be a real assett
whats your 23 AA?
Of course players can play their way in or out of the side on tour so its just a bit of fun
Nowt wrong with VDM defense. Gawd dammitt missed 9, VDM 3 VDM was the standout winger by a long way. top try scorer, top tackles broken, most m made of any of the contenders
You do love your stats don't you!! Who got burned by whom for Zammits second v Scotland?
whats your 23 AA?
Hogg
Watson
North
Henshaw
Adams
Sexton
Still don't know.
Faletau
Tipuric
Bierne
Itoje
Henderson
1/8 of a mile
Not sure
Healey/ Marler
Marler/Healey
AN Other Hooker
Fagerson
AWJ
Navidi (although he looked broken yesterday)
A N Other 9
Faz
Loopy Liam
VDM defence
28s in
Burned
No doubt tho loopy is in the mix – for me his discipline is too suspect.
And yet you are happy to pick Fagerson and Healey, not to mention penalty magnet Itoje
If you don't have the player of the 6N or clearly the best winger in there? You cannot claim RZ missing 9 tackles is OK in defense and VDM missed 3 but is rubbish!
VDM has been topping the stats in the pro 14 since he arrived and topped the stats by miles in the 6N
Itoje - i am giving him the benefit of the doubt on the pens - trying to do the job of two men same as curry
No doubt tho loopy is in the mix – for me his discipline is too suspect.
Whilst there is likely something in this, isn’t Hogg worse?
Josh Adams had a good tournament, but missed two games. Hence I’d say Watson was the standout wing.
Halfpenny has an excellent discipline record iirc. 😀
Also it is very difficult to compare players in different teams based solely on their stats. VDM plays on the left wing, which statistically scores more tries than the right obviously.
Hogg used to be - he has cleaned up his act.
Watson was good yes ( and its hard to shine in a beaten team)- Swap him for Adams if you want but Duhan topped the stats in almost every category bar missed tackles! 32 tackles broken - next nearest 20 - Hogg Watson 13 RZ a mere 6.
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/
If you want a 5/3 split on the bench then does that give a little room for Frazer Brown? - plays hooker and back row. Just a thought if you want versatile players.
time for a ritual stuffing in the womens 6N.
and its hard to shine in a beaten team
Careful now 😂, they were in the lower half of the table along with Scotland!
england -9 pts difference, Scotland +47
The trouble with your stats TJ is they are too simple. If you break a tackle and make loads of meters but it is away from your support and you get turned over then they are useless meters. Same with tackles, teams will be breaking a tackle down at least three ways.
Where do players miss the tackles? In your own red zone or maybe it was at the other end and you were trying to pressure a turn over and got stepped.
Don’t rely on them they only tell half the story.
I have to have something objective to combat AAs one eyedness 🙂
On that 6n stats it does break the tackles down a bit further. You cannot argue with Duhan being the best winger tho at all. So far above the others!
Statistically maybe but it doesn’t paint the whole picture.
I also think he is suspect defensively especially when it matters.
Pure pace is what scares defences.
Duhan is as fast as anyone and really he is not that poor defensively
Another winger worth mentioning - Keith Earls. surprisingly good at every facet of the game, really really irritatingly good
Keet has another 2 champions cup tries today.
Against Toulouse, winning his battle v Kolbe.
Was looking forward to last night's Leinster Toulon but covid cancelled.
Back row battle of rebbadj, ollivon, parrise against Ruddock, VDF, Conan looked tasty. Etzebeth was in at lock too.
But, Leinster through to play Exeter or Lyon next week. There's a lot of support for Simmonds as lion , could be interesting cos Conan is a very similar style of fast open field 8. Did well with his try and assist v England too.
Still a lot to play for in the club game for many teams,
I have to have something objective to combat AAs one eyedness
You cannot argue with Duhan being the best winger tho at all. So far above the others!
Steady on...does the T stand for Trump!!!
Duhan is as fast as anyone
Watch Zammits try above, clearly Duhan isn't as fast as him, not many are mind and that's not the be all. Watson and Adams ( and May, even though I refuse to see him as Lions material, any pro rugby player that can't work out where a flanker puts there head in a scrum should be excluded) are ahead of both Zammit and DVM.
time for a ritual stuffing in the womens 6N.
Well, it was better than last year 🙂
I think Simmonds has a real chance.
I’d like to see Spencer at scrum half too.
I think Simmonds has a real chance
I think Gatland would quite enjoy taking someone who Jones has ignored!!
AA - for sure, and I’m not certain he would be the only one
time for some more ritual slaughter. Edinburgh V racing! I hate being an Edinburgh fan
Should win that.
I think Gatland would quite enjoy taking someone who Jones has ignored!!
I also think Gatland would enjoy using lots of England players and showing Jones how to make them win against SA. Thereby earning his England call up and rescuing us from the current dirge.
I do like an idle fantasy on Easter Sunday.
Who is more distraught AA or TJ?
Not me. I knew we were getting a humping.
Racing did look awesome
Who is more distraught AA or TJ?
Me, TJ should be used to it!!
Ouch
Tbf Scarlets conceded 50pts at home to the SA 4th 15, that's appalling.
If anybody wants some not light but interesting reading while they wait for the next Lions selection instalment between cyclops and Statto, This is available on Kindle for under a fiver. "The Silenced"
Never thought I'd say this but feel a bit sorry for Mike Brown. Maybe a 17year club player should be kept in the fold. The Times article today reads as though it's, see ya.
It's not as though he's followed the big money.