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C”mon Hogg!
His forearm smash is in good form
Hogg, Watson and Richie to go on the Lions tour.
Russell and Van De Merwe can stay at home.
Can you imagine the reaction if Farrell was yellowed for a blatant trip, followed a couple of weeks later by a red for a blatant leading forearm? Double standards??
Scotland to win after 80 minutes please!!!!!!
What are france thinking?
Yes!!!!!!!!!
Behind the sofa.
Never in doubt
Wow, what a game at the end, well done Scotland!
What the **** was that all about, why didn't France kick it out?
Well played Scotland but WTAF was going on?
Well done Scotland !!
Congrats to Wales
That's one of the most heroic tries I've ever seen!
And what a tournament too. I thought it was going to be rubbish at first but I was dead wrong!
Bizarre end to a bizarre tournament. Great entertainment though!!
Hastings looked good
Well AA get yer cheque book out! You owe every scots fan on here pastry based products till we burst
Hastings looked good
No he didn't. His first touch was to run into one of their guys and turn the ball over. He does it far too often.
Well AA get yer cheque book out! You owe every scots fan on here pastry based products till we burst
Why's that?
Was a good game, good end to an entertaining but odd tournament. I think anyone possibility beating anyone else, bar Italy, has made it better than most recent ones.
Why’s that?
cos we didn't give france the 4 try 21 pt win so you owe us big time. come on chap - its only fair. Even a Welshman must feel generous after that 🙂
Just taking the piss
Tj.... I think its called repaying a debt from 1999.... took your time but cheers anyway 😉
Duhan is top try scorer in the 6N, second most metres made after Dulin, most broken tackles! with 32. next highest broken tackles is Hogg with 20
Just to show how tight the whole tournament was - If Wales had missed a conversion against Scotland, Scotland would have won the tournament!
Fabulous series ( unless you are an english fan) and lots of close games with ebb and flow. Interesting how empty stadia meant home advantage disappeared
Big thanks to the refs as well - good performances with few mistakes and the TMO system worked well
Fabulous series ( unless you are an english fan)
Rivalry aside, it's good for a once dominant team to get beaten up a bit, makes for better sport; and it's good for once-underdogs to do so well (Scotland).
Anyone explain the flyhalf sending off???
Leading forearm to the throat / head area. Deemed dangerous. Starts at a red card and can come down with mitigation.
The irony is that if you brace your arm to the body it would have been fine. You can hand off to the face with an open hand, again fine.
Some rules make sense, especially from a player safety point of view, some are bat shit mental.
cos we didn’t give france the 4 try 21 pt win so you owe us big time. come on chap – its only fair. Even a Welshman must feel generous after that 🙂
Just taking the piss
I'll be honest, we won a triple crown 💪😍💪, we missed the grand slam 😥😥😥😥😥. Winning the championship by these new fangled bonus points doesn't really register for me.
The irony is that if you brace your arm to the body it would have been fine
Mainly because it wouldn't have hit the other guy in the neck!
Anyone explain the flyhalf sending off???
Easy he led with the forearm into the neck of the French player, that's illegal.
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/22
So now the dust has settled who of you teams player enhanced their reputation and should be on the lions and who has player themselves out of contention?
Hogg - just keeps on getting better. Captaincy suits him - he must go.
Duhan van der Merwe - top try scorer, top tackles broken by a long way, top metres made ( of lions available players) - he must go. gatland like big wingers
Watson - another fabulous series and playing really well. His problem may be competing with tiperic who also has a good series. should be on the plane
Dave Cherry - come from obscurity to good international performances - a chance to be on the plane
Russell - showed a lot more control than in the past but also strangely subdued at times. Didn't produce the magic he can do. Not a Gatland player, IMO not hugely suited to the lions, Did not do enough to force his way into the team
Price - remains a bit inconsistent but had a good series overall and might be on the plane.
Jonny Grey - injury cost him his chance to shine. Fabulous when he played but a very competitive position. maybe.
Hugh Jones - back to his best and centres are in short supply but is he big enough for Gatland and will =Gatlend trust him ?
Z Fagerson - continues his good form and fine both in the tight and loose. maybe.
Others who impressed?
North - i have for a while thought him better suited to centre and he played well there
Beirne - had a great series and really should go
LRZ - fast and deadly. - enhanced his reputation
Duhan van der Merwe – top try scorer, top tackles broken by a long way, top metres made ( of lions available players) – he must go
His defence seems poor, made hay v Italy but seems like an archetypal flat track bully to me, good finisher but lacks the all round ability of the likes of Watson or Adams for example. One of him or Zammo will go as a bit of a gamble I reckon, either could develop into test players or find their limits.
backrow is going to be crazy.
Watson
Curry
Tipuric
Navidi
Richie
Underhill
Faletau
Stander
Vunipola
Van de Flier
Add in the likes of Bierne
Pick 6!
2 from Tips, Watson, Curry, Van de Flier and Underhill.
It was a poor tackle attempt against France for sure from Duhan but watching him play week in week out for the last 3 years he really is not weak in defense.
Back row - I would play Watson and tiperic in the style of Hooper and Pocock. with tight five players being so much more mobile and effective around the park these days i see less need for bulk in the flankers and I think speed is so critical. However we know Gatland prefers big lumps of players
I have been watching tips closely this year and he has been right at his best.
Watson was immense again yesterday.
In some ways a poor return for Scotland - beating england and France away from home but still finishing 4th even tho the margins were tight but given we ended up with 3rd choice hooker
4th & 5th choice locks 2nd/ 3rd choice 8, 2nd choice IC we did OK. We also missed our first adn second choice 10 for some games Its not long that you have to go back to when we had a competitive first 15 but once injuries and suspensions struck the replacements were a huge dropoff in quality so we would have been gubbed
I thought you were not interested in the Lions anymore, TJ? 😆
Watson was immense again yesterday
I was watching him yesterday and couldn't help but think that Scotland over use him as a carrier, he'd be awesome with some space running at backs but Scotland tend to used him a carrier into heavy traffic down the middle. Compare that to how Wales use tight five forwards down the middle with Tips and Faletau on opposite wings.
Doing that tends to pull forwards in to mark him - he was being double and triple tackled all game so tends to creates space for others.
Doing that tends to pull forwards in to mark him –
It's the backs you want to be pulling in.
I would play Watson and tiperic in the style of Hooper and Pocock.
Think Watson does a great job carrying tight for Scotland, but not sure that's as needed in a stronger pack. He looks a good player in good form - might go.
But certainly not to play 8 or 6 v SA. Ritchie might actually have the better chance.
Redpath looked good but not done enough Yet.
Maitland closer than vdm
Back 3 for Lions squad:
Hogg
Williams
May
Watson
Adams
with potentially North picked as centre, they might not take another wing or its a choice between Van Der Whatsit and Zammit
Henshaw v De Allende in Leinster Munster Pro 14 final today.
Looking at how close many of the results were and how close the final table is I think the lesson to be learned is what won it for Wales was consistency, composure and discipline. the only match they lost they lost their composure and discipline.
One person ( and I hate to say it) who must be given credit for that is AWJ
Russell got 3 weeks for his high fend.
More or less dangerous than grinding same part of arm into a prone player?
more. a lot more.
The worrying part of the Russel thing was the fact his arm was still on the throat of Dulin when they hit the ground, could have been very nasty. Most likely reckless rather than intentional, ban seems fair to me.
AA - you will enjoy this
On a rugby forum I am on people are seriously arguing Curry was better this 6N than Tips or Mish
Curry is a fine player but was pretty underwhelming this six nations.
I reckon Curry and Underhill might get Lions flankers test spots though, or Navidi 6 Underhill 7 to get max physicality v SA. Garland wont have time for bedding in fancy play, it's going to be pure bludgeon. See also Russell and Ford missing out at 10.
Backrow; Curry, Faletau, Watson. Curry has been a victim of the general malaise affecting England, but he really stands out every week for Sale, I would take a punt on him being the same for the Lions. Watson just does more that Underhill,if they both get selected Watson will start ahead of Underhill.
Curry looked like he was carrying England at times. Probably England best player in defeat to Ireland but still lost his own battle with vdf on the day.
One prob for them was Vunipola - looked well of the pace and a bit unfit, it was like they were short a br.
Connors might be an outside shot. Clear winner in the battle of the sevens in the Ireland Scotland game, and very good in his other games. Offers something a bit different with chop tackling ankles stopping SA big runners. Works well if there's a decent jackal like Beirne in next.
reckon Curry and Underhill might get Lions flankers test spots though, or Navidi 6 Underhill 7 to get max physicality v SA.
I can't see Tips not going can you?
Based on 6N I'd take Watson>Curry. The problem with Underhill is we haven't seen him at a high level as he wasn't in this tournament, but if he plays like he normally does then he has to be in prime position over Watson. My assumption is that Gatland will just run two opensides like everybody does these days, which means it has to be Tipuric and Underhill.
Also as a betting man I'd leave the scots out as Gatland always does. These were exactly the same conversations had during the last lions tour and he left lots of the scots out despite some of them looking useful. Are we all convinced its 100% on merit and not some personal bias on style and requirements. (whatever that might be I am not making silly accusations, but everyone has their style etc)
premiership highlights from the weekend Quins Bristol, Danny Care's performance is pretty eye catching in the bits they show; audacious drop goal, throws a great pass for a try and even strips a backrow forward in a tackle to score. Bolter for the Lions given performances of some the 6N nines ?
Certainly none of the 9s have really been outstanding. Murray the best of the guys we saw play in the 6N but no one stood out
Why is Care not playing for england? another one who annoyed Jones?
Gatland has a long history of Ignoring the scots and favouring the welsh no matter the 6N results
My assumption is that Gatland will just run two opensides like everybody does these days,
Such as?
Murray the best of the guys we saw play in the 6N but no one stood out
As a Munster and Irish fan I would love to see Murray picked in the hope Gats might revitalise his game. He has stopped sniping or even getting on the end of moves like a good scrummy. He was muck for Irelands first game and then dropped until the England game where granted he played pretty well with a pass/kick game. Most Munster fans get more excited Craig Casey his understudy as he gets the team moving.
Curry is a better player when underhill plays as he can then jackal and underhill tackles.
Not sure on two open sides. I’d play Beirne as he was immense.
Murray the best of the guys we saw play in the 6N but no one stood out
I think Tomos Williams has the highest potential but he keeps getting injured just as you hope he will kick on. It's going to be tricky choosing a 9.
My assumption is that Gatland will just run two opensides
When you have two 7's you are setting yourself up to play a certain way, attacking the breakdown all the time, other sides see them picked and can change tactics accordingly. For example New Zealand completely negated "Pooper" by making one of them commit to the initial tackle. You then have two fairly light guys taking turns at being the brick wall the 6 traditionally is. Another reason Curry will get my vote over JT is because he trains with that wee blonde gobshite every day. Stop Faf and you are making that massive pack of theirs work much harder protecting him,forcing their back row to be more honest for longer etc.
When you have two 7’s you are setting yourself up to play a certain way, attacking the breakdown all the time, other sides see them picked and can change tactics accordingly. For example New Zealand completely negated “Pooper” by making one of them commit to the initial tackle.
Fair.
As an aside - anyone else enjoy Barnes attempted French in the Scotland game - bless him for trying and the French did complain about being reffed in english but by heck its funny
Pearce did it France vs Wales too. I thought it was OK.
A few years ago France complained about being reffed in English so the refs have learned some french. I think its great i was just laughing at the accent / vocabulary
Lions.
Hogg
May
Henshaw
Davies
Williams
Sexton
Murray
Sutherland
Cowan-Dickie
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Curry
Watson
Faletau
Subs; 6/2 split. (I am assuming 8)
Zammit
North/Farrell
Wyn Jones
Sinckler
Owens
Beirne
Tuipric
Simmonds
So; key to beating them is to play with as much of the power they will come at us with as we can, but do it faster. Teams that beat them tend to gas them out first. My front row are truly horrible but all love a carry. Second row; for me, England struggled this year because the spine of their team are in the Championship,so out of the Sarries, Itoje is picked because I think he is worth the punt even though Beirne will wonder what he has to do to start. Back row; Curry is a monster, Watson is the best grafter and Faletau is a very,very clever player. Murray and Sexton are the best of a bad bunch and both were coming into form as the tournament went on. Davies because he is an on field leader and Henshaw because he has been the best available centre. Williams and May on the wings as I trust Williams defence a wee bit more than Zammit and May is a fantastic player, end of. Hogg is the best FB in the UK.
Subs; most can play a couple of positions,and as at least one test will be at altitude (I assume) will be used. North was fast improving and Farrell is another I trust to play into form, front row changed off after 50 mins. I like players who know each other so Zammit and May, Wyn Jones and Owens on together.
Finally, Sam Simmonds on hard fast pitches would be a revelation. For the life of me I cannot understand why Jones doesn't rate him, so he is my wild card, but only once Tupiric or Beirne are on.
Scottish hooker looks like Ken Owens was on the money with his darts and all over the field.
In the ireland game? I see that much more as superb lineout work by ireland
duckman - if you want power then surely you need Duhan in there not loopy Liam or May?
Davies has been poor since injury, he may come good but I'd go with Henshaw at 12 and North at 13.
You need a 9 on bench imo rather than Faz/North. Hogg Covers 10, Williams 15 and North Wing if he started so a Centre and a 9 would be a better on the bench say Faz and a 9
That's a better mix agreed, going to go with another 9, God knows who and lose Simmonds as others can play 8. Still starting Davies as I thought he was coming good.
Duckman and others.
That’s a fair assessment. I suspect Gatland will go with Faz at 10. Possibly.
Although Watson does a good job at 6 I’d prefer Navidi. Watson seemed to go backwards in every contact during the France game. That might be because France targeted him, but Navidi carries well and tackles like a demon.
Curry would shine in a back row with Navidi and NotToby. Tips will have the lack of size as a reason not to play him, I’d just play him in the centre, being as he’s the best centre in Europe. 😉
Just watched that - annoying barstewards is right.
We are all scatching around for scrum halves - heres the outside bet Wee Greig is playing in japan so still match fit. Midweek captain and 9. Only gets in the test team if the others are injured
Curry Watson falataou ( watson is a 7 not 6) too light? Mobile, good over the ball but too lightweight?
Bigblackshed Watson made the most yards and the most yards per carry of Curry Watson and tiperic - and he doesn't hang out in the backs for the easy yards like tips 🙂
Back row is so difficult because you want balance as well. Ritchie had a good series and I am a real Navidi fan - he is playing some great rugby Beirne could also be at 6 Underhill? simmonds?
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Best balance and round pegs in round holes. Big work rate and attack the line out.
Bench: navidi or stander , both can cover all 3 positions.
Watson comprehensively outplayed Curry. Ok curry was trying to do two mens job but even so.
Watson was not most yards per carry all very similar all 3 of the 7s candidates are very good players with slightly different attributes and used in different ways in their teams
Curry 217 m in 41 carries, 63 tackles made, 11 missed, turnovers won 1, conceded 6, broken tackles 8 pens conceded 6
Tips 112 m in 22 carries, 86 tackles made, 2 missed turnovers won 3, conceded 1. broken tackles 1 pens conceded 1
the Mish 321 m in 67 carries. 55 tackles made. missed none. turnovers made 4. conceded 3. broken tackles 14 pens conceded - zero
Looking forward to the womens 6N starting 2 of our girls started training again tonight Pleased to see its mostly all live on tv this year.
Loum,you need second row cover on the bench if you start Beirne. He is probably more physical than Falatau, but like choosing Davies over North, I think he knows the position better. (Which is no disrespect to North) Also Falatau's open field play is amazing. I think we have got too much into the idea that the no8 picks and goes to ground six feet to the left and in line with the middle of the scrum. I want my lions forwards dragging the boks all over the midfield then in the second half presenting them with the problems of dealing with Tuipric and Zammit who both LOVE an open game.
Also Falatau’s open field play is amazing.
Faletau is simply a bloody amazing rugby player, the way he uses his feet to beat players in tight spaces is amazing. His return to form this season has been a joy to watch.
TJ, your stats prove nothing other than each player was in a different team and that Tips isn't used as a carrier much. I bet Tips won more lineouts than the others combined for example.
the way he uses his feet to beat players in tight spaces is amazing. His return to form this season has been a joy to watch.
You are going to have to explain/expand this.
You are going to have to explain/expand this.
He runs around people rather than over them
AA - Tips had a great series I thought - after previous conversations I watched him carefully.
I think the stats show Tips and Mish operating at a similar high level with curry a step behind
Faletau uses footwork to alter the point of contact at the last minute giving him more opportunity to break a tackle, create an off load or draw a defender towards him to create space for others. Opposite of Billy who just looks to run over people and arguably that is all he can do. Teams know that and double or triple tackle him. He’s then out of the game for a few phases. To me Billy looks too heavy and unfit. Faletau is a much better all round player and has come back into form.
TJ what is your source of stats?
Faletau uses footwork to alter the point of contact at the last minute giving him more opportunity to break a tackle, create an off load or draw a defender towards him to create space for others. Opposite of Billy who just looks to run over people and arguably that is all he can do. Teams know that and double or triple tackle him. He’s then out of the game for a few phases.
Cheers this makes sense.
Vermuelen will be 35 and coming off a pension boosting year in Japan and little rugby since.Faletau will be neither of those things and nicely seasoned off a triple crown/ best domestic league in the world.If he is playing his usual game it will be Hogg/May/Williams/Zammit he is shipping clever offloads to instead of whoever Bath have out wide that week. Good luck covering that Duane. Thor? I expect him to be aching all over. ( try the fish)
And I claim the 2000th post in the name of Scotland.