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Well I think the answer is in psychology. I think it is a bigger thing for Wales to beat England than NZ.
Alternatively, the English just don't try hard enough against Wales. Probably from a feeling of superiority.
I don’t think it’s that the Welsh raise their game to play England as much as they (of recent) have been a tournament team. They generally to crap in AIs and tours but play better for the 6N and last couple of WCs. The times they play the southern hemisphere teams is generally in the AIs, and they lose whereas the times they generally play the NH teams is 6N when they’ve done better/more consistent. Add in that Wales can’t beat Aus, seem to have played them about 100 times in the last 10 years been beaten in all of them but the total points difference is about -1.
This, although we beat AU's in the world cup when it mattered.
We also beat England more than NZ because England are shit and NZ are not.
We also beat England more than NZ because England are shit and NZ are not.
Weird, us too!
Love Duckman’s last comment.
A couple of points.
1. Wales vs SA or Australia is very different if you look at the more recent meetings.
2 like in tennis there seems to be better match ups. Federer never dealt well with Nadal’s extreme topspin especially to the backhand (before he changed racquets) yet could beat other players who could trouble Nadal.
Similarly Wales NZ is a shit match up for Wales, NZ just do the things better. England on the other hand have a point of difference to NZ and can bully them and impose themselves. It seems the opposite with SA, Wales seeming to be fairly competitive. A lot of people conveniently forget just how close the WC semi final was.
Similar with Australia, England able to bully them, Wales /Aus games in the last 10 years have been entertaining with Wales only very recently able to not hand victory over in the last seconds.
3 ultimately 5 of the 6 nations teams can beat each other given momentum in a game.
4 it’s a shame some people see fit to talk of England as the NH superpower
it’s a shame some people see fit to talk of England as the NH superpower
In my experience that's mainly the press and Eddie Jones.
Depends how you measure success, on world cups, S hemisphere thump the North with just a single win this side to England and only France making a final out the rest. The English claim of superiority on this stage on the home nations but it is much closer in the 6n, autumns etc as it is between SA, AB and AS in tri nations, each hemisphere having far more exposure to each others game. I have watched every England game live since 2001 a painful journey at times with the games against Wales often the most painful to watch and lose. No idea why maybe my Welsh relatives or its just the daffodils.
Depends how you measure success, on world cups, S hemisphere thump the North with just a single win this side to England and only France making a final out the rest.
well I was trying to have a conversation about rugby, not a pissing contest, I would measure it like this I guess:
In 9 world cups so far England have been in 4 finals, winning once, coming second the other 3 times, plus a bronze final coming 4th.
Which means we have been the the best team in the world 1/9 of the time, 2nd best team in the world 1/3 of the time. England are currently 3rd in IRB rankings and are consistently higher. As mentioned above we have beaten NZ, Aus, SA more times than any of the other NH teams.
France have come 2nd three times, a 3rd and two 4th places.
Wales have had 4 bronze finals with a one 3rd and two 4ths.
Scotland a 4th and Ireland none at all?
If you look at the number of appearances in WC finals we made it 4 times, are joint top with NZ and Aus. SA only made it to 3 finals (winning every time) , along with France.
Plus we won more 6N than anyone else 7, vs Wales (Who have more GS's though) and France on 5. More 5N's etc.
Thanks CJ
Legend
Lets not beat about any bushes, 5plusn8, this
Which means we have been the the best team in the world 1/9 of the time, 2nd best team in the world 1/3 of the time.
is nonsense.
Wales have had 4 bronze finals with a one 3rd and two 4ths.
We get bonus points for those, (check the VERY small print!).
If you look at the number of appearances in WC finals we made it 4 times,
Raymond Poulidor was nicknamed The Eternal Second. NZ were accused of choking, by their own press, when they couldn't repeat their WC win. England are constantly touted by their press as The Greatest Ever.
vs Wales (Who have more GS’s though)
We get bonus points for that as well. (Check the smaller print. It's really small.)
😀 (If I could get emojis on this keyboard I'd stick my tongue out..
You can have your bonus points, I'll even campaign to get them and the really really close losses included in wikipedia for you.
TBH you can ask same the question about England vs Aus, our record is 50/50, but Aus are demonstrably better, world cup twice, better record against NZ.
Consistently higher than us on IRB rankings. Its interesting, and might have some value to study.
Stander has been good this six nations tbf. I'd certainly have him and Faletau for the Lions rather than B Vunipola
Um no 7 contact with the head..
5plusn8, can I suggest you stop rising to them. Very few people in here are going to agree with if England are the best NH team, because of Eddie Jones, and Colonialism.
It'll take quite a few hundred years for both of those to be forgotten, so just sit at home and enjoy a beer when we have the occasional win, its so much easier that way.
Ha ha, I'm not rising, just ticking along.
FYI Stander is retiring.
https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/03/16/cj-stander-to-retire-at-end-of-season/
Just saw that about Stander, a very good playernot that old is he?
31, you'd think he would eke it out. Loads of older players out there.
England team to beat Ireland:
15. Max Malins
14. Anthony Watson
13. Elliot Daly
12. Owen Farrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford )
9. Ben Youngs
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Charlie Ewels
6. Mark Wilson
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola
FINISHERS
16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Will Stuart
19. Jonny Hill
20. Ben Earl
21. Dan Robson
22. Ollie Lawrence
23. Joe Marchant
Surprise Surprise!
Wales as before except Beard back in to start and Tomos Williams onto bench. Still unconvinced by J Davies, would prefer Halaholo to start but happy enough. Game on, not convinced we will win but it's going to be fun.
Slade injured I think. Be interesting to see Daly back at 13. Ford Farrell Daly were starters when we beat SA in 2016, but then so did Italy that year..
5plusn8, can I suggest you stop rising to them.
BORING!
😀
FINISHERSSPAM JAVELINS
What’s likely the best match for a neutral to watch on Saturday?
In theory I could watch all three, but I have to go to the pub (they’re not on Spanish terrestrial telly) and that’s an all day sesh which I’d rather avoid!
What’s likely the best match for a neutral to watch on Saturday?
france v wales has the potential to be the most exciting - gallic flair vs welsh grit & cunning
Wales as before except Beard back in to start and Tomos Williams onto bench. Still unconvinced by J Davies, would prefer Halaholo to start but happy enough. Game on, not convinced we will win but it’s going to be fun.
I reckon JD2 is there for the big game experience. him and north seems to work well together too. also had some lovely offloads in tight space last week. france favourites, but we've got every chance on the day. should be a brilliant game
What’s likely the best match for a neutral to watch on Saturday?
Well, straight away you can rule out any game involving Italy - they are pretty much universally dire.
England v Ireland should be interesting, but Wales and France are both going for the championship and are arguably more entertaining to watch as well, at the moment.
I'd just watch the last two. (But I will be watching all three and Milan-San Remo!)
Bob s
The last one.
It has the most riding on it.
The two best teams.
And the two most try scorey teams.
You'll get any highlights from earlier too.
Ireland fan, but tbh that's not the main event this week.
france v wales has the potential to be the most exciting – gallic flair vs welsh grit & cunning
Yep. The two bestest teams in the tournament, with everything to play for.
Also, with talent like Dupont, LRZ and Tips on show...
They all have the potential to be excellent. I will be watching all three.
I agree with the others that the best chance for excitement will be France vs wales.
However I wouldn't write Italy off, every blue moon they pull something awesome out of the bag. More likely though Scotland will score loads of tries, which will still be good to watch.
Ireland vs England will either be thrilling or very dull, both sides just close each other down, I can't see any high score.
However I wouldn’t write Italy off, every blue moon they pull something awesome out of the bag.
That would set the day up very nicely please.
After all this unusual level of agreement happening, we're going to get a 3 all draw for the last match aren't we?
we’re going to get a 3 all draw for the last match aren’t we?
Other than the loss of a Grand Slam title, that would be acceptable. Wales would take the championship.
Hogg starting at 10 for us which is "interesting."
Hogg starting at 10 for us which is “interesting.”
I'm sure it won't be a Bergamasco event. 😀
The two bestest teams in the tournament, with everything to play for.
You might beat France with the same bending of the rules ref, shame he's French and therefore not available.
Ref is Luke Pearce. Wales are doomed.
Ref is Luke Pearce. Wales are doomed.
Why is that?
My head tells me that Wales have a 1 in 3 chance of winning. But I have a gut feeling that we’re going to do it.
So I’m crossing my fingers for 3 underdog wins: Italy, Ireland and Wales. How exciting would that be!?!
England's open side and 8 are going to have a busy day. I can Ireland sending stander, henshaw and Lowe down the 10/12 and 12/13 channels. Big carriers to challenge OF tackle, I thought he was quieter in the last game in the tackle zone.
Why is that?
It was another joke following on from Kryton's, because he is English.
Or are you worried about him?
My head tells me that Wales have a 1 in 3 chance of winning. But I have a gut feeling that we’re going to do it.
So I’m crossing my fingers for 3 underdog wins: Italy, Ireland and Wales. How exciting would that be!?!
Bookies odds are overwhelmingly for a Scottish win, (100/1 for a draw could tempt me!) and decent odds for Ireland and Wales to win. (25/1 for an Ireland/England draw? I reckon those are two very close teams.)
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/six-nations
I diunno what you call good odds, the bookies have England fav to beat Ireland at shit odds, and Ireland to beat Eng at even shitter odds, IE too close to call. Hmmmm.
I can Ireland sending stander, henshaw and Lowe down the 10/12 and 12/13 channels.
Nearly.
Conan, Aki, Stockdale.
I have to go to the pub
****ing show off!! What's a pub, we have none
Stockdale back for the turnstile that is Lowe is good, Aki and Henshaw is chunky!!
Can anyone explain why Earls gets picked ahead of L'amour, what's that all about?
The Toonbola returns for Scotland. Hogg at 10!
Can anyone explain why Earls gets picked ahead of L’amour, what’s that all about?
Earls is very good at legally disrupting high balls. (Legality would depend on who you are supporting, but he gets away with it.)
Ireland: Keenan; Earls, Henshaw, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton (capt), Murray; Kilcoyne, Herring, Furlong, Henderson, Beirne, Stander, Van der Flier, Conan.
Replacements: Kelleher, Healy, Porter, Baird, O'Mahony, Gibson-Park, Burns, Larmour.
Can I have some sympathy please?
It’s my wife’s birthday on Saturday, I don’t think I’ll see any rugby. Well not until Sunday on catch up.
Can anyone explain why Earls gets picked ahead of L’amour, what’s that all about?
Keenan has claimed the 15 spot.
Stockdale's been injured.
Lowe is new.
They don't usually put three noobs in the back 3. Earls job has been babysitting Lowe and Keenan. If Stockdale re claims leftwing then he can babysit Keenan and larmour and keet can have his cocoa.
Larmour was getting more gametime when Rob k was baby-sitter
Just realised WAL-FRA is on at 21:00 CET when the pubs are shut! Bugger, hoping it's on a French channel that I can pick up when the wind's blowing the right way... either that or a VPN trial.
On Teledeporte they're showing the English Open Badminton semifinal at 9 lol
I was hoping L'amour would be competing for the Lions 15 shirt, I really rate him but Farrell seems very conservative in selection.
Why is that?
It was another joke following on from Kryton’s, because he is English.
Or are you worried about him?
I think Luke pearce is very good. He is Welsh though, as far as I am aware.
Larmour had long injury last year and missed the opportunity with rk leaving. They tried Stockdale there and it didn't really work out. Keenans taken the chance and nailed 15 . He's not spectacular but really safe. Like a mini halfpee. Can see him being ire 15 for a long time. Larmours been in all this year's squads but Farrell was trying to bring Lowe up to standard, and had new 15 and half backs, so earls was the experience at the back. With Stockdale back fit he'll be the experience, larmour will be long term right wing. Just not this time v England with all the other changes.
Farrell's actually brought through loads of new caps. Baird (got the charge down at the end v Scotland) is winger quick and kelleher is a good kid too.
Hogg
Williams
Daley
For lions FBs.
Keenan wouldn't let them down but probably behind even more than just them.
Larmour very outside shot as wing, but lrz , Watson, may, Adams, North , Maitland , Stockdale and others in front at the moment. He can play any position 11-15 so might get the call out if there's injuries on tour.
Hogg
Williams
Daley
For lions FBs.
Only likely to be 2 and if Daly is anywhere near it'll be a massive shock.
English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_PearcePlace of birth
Pontypool
Place of birth
Pontypool
Is that your measure? So Jonathan Davies and George North are English then 🙂
FYI whilst googling a witty response to AA there I discovered that in the Wales first 15 (apart from some obvious exceptions) 98.9% of them were born in Swansea/Penarth/Morriston/Camarthen. They were all born in a 15 mile radius. Must something in the water.
Starters
North -Kings Lynn
Davies- Solihull
Francis - York
Faletau- Specific Islands
Finishers
Halaholo -Aotearo
Is that your measure?
Don't worry nickjb, if Wales win we can blame the ref for being a one-eyed welshman, if they lose they can blame him for being English.
Faletau- Specific Islands
FinishersReplacements
Halaholo -Aotearo
You need to work on your spelling..
Specific Islands= Tonga
NZ = Aotearoa
You are welcome!
Thanks teach.
Pacifically speaking Tonga is a specific Island.
I have a friend who cannot say specific and always says pacific. And then there was this:
Sad person that I am I like occasionally to go back and look at what was said before a tournament began. There’s always some amusing comments. Like this one from a_a, how could he possibly have known what would happen.
I think Wales will struggle but favourites like England and France will benefit due to refs subconciously favouring favourites.
Pacifically speaking Tonga is a specific Island.
No. It's a country with 170 islands.
No. It’s a country with 170 islands.
This is true, but its not funny.
Can I change the topic to something much more important?
What's being poured for tomorrow?
I've got a mixed bag of Tiny Rebel goodness, including a four pack of Cwtch that I doubt will touch the sides!
What’s being poured for tomorrow?
Pubs open here on a reduced timetable so the Ireland game will be the local porter.
Got to choose a barrel for the Perfectdraft for the Wales game, between Clwb Tropicana and Magic Rock stout 🤔
What’s being poured for tomorrow?
A mini keg of Fyne Ales Jarl.
6 bottles of quintessential English ales followed by a fine French wine.
6 bottles of quintessential English ales followed by a fine French wine.
😉
Kryton57
Full Member
6 bottles of quintessential English ales followed by a fine French wine.Posted 44 minutes ago
Best not mix the two up.
Ireland - please beat England so we have a chance to finish above them in the table - you owe us that much!
98.9% of them were born in Swansea/Penarth/Morriston/Camarthen. They were all born in a 15 mile radius.
I can't be reading that correctly - it's about 60 miles from Penarth down to Carmarthen? (That 60 miles covers every big club (historic and current) in Wales apart from the Gwent teams. And Morriston is part of Swansea.)
Pubs open here on a reduced timetable so the Ireland game will be the local porter.
Bloody show off!!
I do hope AA was Watching the Ospreys tonight
Amazing finish! Not the best game but great result for them.