[Closed] Rugby 2020 – 2021 Season

Really? First contact is clearly neck and chin

Those red tinted glasses are helping you form that view AA

WRT prime quality – its streaming on a peak time, so you are at the mercy of your ISP.

I get your point but the other streaming platforms can do it, so with all the cash Amazon could throw at it, this is truly rubbish. It should be a showcase for them, not an embarrassment.

My streaming quality was perfectly fine (100mbps fibre)

Nah nothing wrong with that tackle. I’m Welsh, but a rugby league player. That was a standard tackle to me.
The arms make an attempt to wrap the player, it’s just a good hit on a fairly static player.

I'm sorry that is clearly a high tackle. No rose tinted specs needed just functioning eyes.

Talk me through the first contact.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1332725813825970181

A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or head is dangerous play.

Big games, well it was but for the pandemic, is hinged on big decisions. Biggar being tackled in the air was the pivotal point in the game. Without the subsequent try Wales were very much in the game.

The slightly less shit team won in the end. But that's not much of an achievement, beating 11.5 pieces of pure mince, the now Not-Lions Captain, Josh Adams and Rees-Zammit. Williams's try once one small highlight.

Pause that gif and then double click to move frame by frame.

First contact is with right arm on the left arm and ball.

Then right shoulder hits him, can't see exactly where laterally but somewhere between top of sternum and the welsh player's right shoulder.

Then the players head goes back with the force of the hit.

It is most definitely not *above* the line of the shoulders, freeze at between one and two seconds and it's clear. Shoulder to shoulder at worst.

Shoulder to shoulder at worst.

Clear contact with head and neck its plain as day.

I dont know where your sternum is but mines not here

Yawn...

Yawn

Clearly player safety isnt important to you and concussion not an issue either. The refs need to be more consistent as last season, when refs had been reminded to ref that aspect, that was a cast iron straight red.

You need to follow the laws and the guidance AA - that is clearly not a red card.

Clearly player safety isnt important to you and concussion not an issue either.

well that’s very much your assumption amongst your repeated trump-esque insistence that every one else is wrong. Games over, two mediocre teams, you lost, move on.

You need to follow the laws and the guidance AA – that is clearly not a red card.

Why so? Whats the mitigation? We went through this last the mitigation should not be applied in open play with clear lines of sight.

https://laws.worldrugby.org/en/guidelines/13

well that’s very much your assumption amongst your repeated trump-esque

Do try to grow up, I realise Its tricky for you

You can be as dismissive as you want, several professional rugby referees declined it, a lot of people here have done the same, it’s not contested by Wales, the RFU or Pivac post match, just you AA.

That suggests that as difficult for you to accept being wrong is, you are highly likely to be wrong.

That angle doesn’t look good and is probably say card, but I don’t remember seeing that angle on tv. Slow motion doesn’t help either. Bigger was clearly a wrong call. But you could look at many points in any game and build a case for poor decisions.

So explain, after looking at the video how it is wrong? Plenty of ex pro players on the coverage I looked at thought it was a very poor decision, Kaplan says it was worth looking at, its clearly at best highly debatable so worthy of talking about, this is a chat bored afterall.

From behind paywall of telegraph:

I thought Romain did OK in Llanelli and the scoreline was an accurate reflection of the match, although the interaction between referee and television match official was a mixed bag.

One talking point came in the 14th minute when Romain overruled his TMO, Brian MacNeice, after a collision between Sam Underhill and Dan Biggar after which England ultimately scored their first try.

MacNeice wanted to point out that Biggar had not yet hit the ground after being played by Underhill. Romain thought that Biggar had simply come down on top of his opponent,. With Biggar losing the ball on the ground, the turnover proved crucial.

People will think it should have been a penalty, but I can see how others will believe it was common sense to play on, perhaps because Underhill was almost a non-participant. Should the law be outcome-based or should the referees be allowed to use common sense? I will let you decide.

It surprised me that none of the officials wanted another look at Daly’s tackle on Josh Adams in the 32nd minute. The tackle seemed to slip up from the chest on to the neck. It was worth a review and a sanction.

That angle doesn’t look good and is probably say card, but I don’t remember seeing that angle on tv. Slow motion doesn’t help either. Bigger was clearly a wrong call. But you could look at many points in any game and build a case for poor decisions.

Not trying to build a case for anything, england are a far better side and despite doing their best to keep it close won handily. Wales are currently blighted by a double whammy of inexperienced players and coaches at this level.

It was quid pro quo anyway, the 'charge down' that led to wales first try was a knock on.
W player kicked it first, then knocked it on.
Dalys tackle if you watch with good quality was mid chest height with arms, but the attacker lifted his elbow and prevent the wrap. As all the refs agreed, it was a fair tackle.

If you cant win becasue of a reffing mistake then, you were not ahead on acverage.

Dalys tackle if you watch with good quality was mid chest height with arms

I would like to see some better footage, but crucially the arms stuff is not relevant if they wrap, which they do. It just means its a high tackle and not a shoulder charge. If the arms contact lower and the shoulder makes contact with head or neck its still a high tackle.

It was quid pro quo anyway, the ‘charge down’ that led to wales first try was a knock on.
W player kicked it first, then knocked it on.

You might be right, the tmo replayed but Poite dismissed it all very quickly. I wasnt sure Biggars hand got to it but also wasnt sure JBR Williams was onside, Poite said a charge down so all on. Can you charge down with feet/legs?

Lot of fuss on twitter over this, cant see for sure what happened.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=3Y8KTnW4OdU

That does look suspicious. However two things; if anyone had been hit full in the face by something explosive as that, they’d at least be clutching said face and not easily getting up off the floor.  And, no reaction from Francis or the Welsh players, especially Alun-Wynn whose not known for keeping quiet with the ref, plus Wainwright watched it all.

I’d suggest he’s gone for Francis and it looks as though he’s lead with his head, and luckily hasn’t made contact just wrestled a bit.

And, no reaction from Francis or the Welsh players,

There was quite a big reaction and Francis was penalised for afters followed by being marched back 10m for complaining to the ref.

I’d suggest he’s gone for Francis and it looks as though he’s lead with his head, and luckily hasn’t made contact just wrestled a bit.

Thats just a guess unless theres another angle.

Can you charge down with feet/legs?

He kicked it on, which is legal, so that makes it not a chargedown any more.
He then touched it with his hand and it went forward, so that was a knock on. TBH I didn't care at the time, it was a good try and I prefer to play to the ref.

Rugby laws here https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=11&language=EN

States (my bold):

The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:

A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).

Repeating myself here:
E kicked it first, then W immediately after kicked it. Hence legal.
W then touched the ball with his hand and it went forward, which makes it knock on.

He kicked it on, which is legal

That would have put JBR Williams offside though wouldnt it?

I'm not convinced it did hit his hand though.

1.17 here (JBR not offside, like I thought) not shown enough to see if Biggars hand made contact I recall a better angle from live though.

5:25ish for Daly's tackle. Still looks high to me

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2X2poTccW08

I agree with AA, I think it was a clear high tackle. I am astonished that it wasn’t reviewed at the time. Player safety needs to be a referee’s first and foremost priority. I thought Romain Poite failed miserably in this regard yesterday. No complaints about the rugby decisions, or the result.

It was a much better performance from Wales than I expected. Midfield and back row in particular performed well with very inexperienced players.

Midfield and back row in particular performed well with very inexperienced players.

I thought Botham was a disaster waiting to happen but him and SLH did well considering they must have less than 20 pro games between them. Faletau stepped up as well. Hooker is a massive issue. Hopefully Rob Evans can get back to form as he can scrummage and isnt a complete waste of time around the pitch.
In the backs Tomos Williams back at 9 with G Davies to bench and try to find someone to play 13. I'd like to see Lane get some time at 13 for the blues. Loopy at 14 with Adams and Zammit on wings. We are not going to suddenly find dynamic front five forwards with strong set piece so have to make do

Wales team
Liam Williams; Josh Adams, George North, Johnny Williams, Louis Rees-Zammit; Callum Sheedy, Kieran Hardy; Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), James Botham, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Wyn Jones, Leon Brown, Cory Hill, Aaron Wainwright, Gareth Davies, Ioan Lloyd, Jonah Holmes.

North at 13... Didnt see that coming

North at 13… Didnt see that coming

Me neither. I like the rest of the team tho. Dangerous looking backline, with plenty of pace to come off the bench.

England: Daly; Watson, Slade, Farrell (capt), May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Robson, Malins, Marchant.

Watson back a bonus

Scotland having a great game so far. Look very lively. Hogg playing well and Van Der Walt may stop Russell ever playing for Scotland again 😏

Too many penalties from scotland - again!

And it cost them the game.

*sulks*

Interesting stat came up during the game - Duhan has apparently beaten more players than any other this autumn

That tackle for the yellow was much lower than Daly last week!

JBR Williams out Davies on one leg in.

That tackle for the yellow was much lower than Daly last week!

In the scotland game? It was a deliberate knock on not a high tackle

Well thats good, I caught the last 15 mins of pick drive and wrestle and just saw them replay it whilst cookingband wondered how the **** it was yellow!!!!

will probably come back to bite me on the butt, but think advantage is played for too long even for a penalty adv. Ireland gained 15m then messed up. Brought back. 15m is better progress than a normal passage of play

Strangely excited by North at 13 even though I dont think he has the skills and defensive calmness to do it well.

Liam doesnt look good. 19 year old Lloyd on bench! Big day for him

Some Wales players, including Liam Williams, are very unlucky with injuries.
Let’s hope Lloyd has a good game.

Yay, Wales are still shit

That’s why Tipuric and Faletau are only passing to each other 😂

Told you

Faletau 12, Tips 13 next time!!
Faletau is a great rugby player.
North actually did well, better than headless chicken Tomkins

One takeaway from this set of games - they really do need to sort out offside. I don't think a single defensive line lined up on side in any game I saw!

A bit of good generosity from Twickers today:

Four hundred of the 2,000 tickets have been given to NHS workers, with 50 from the West Middlesex University Hospital and the Hounslow and Richmond Community Healthcare NHS Trust seated in the Royal Box.

Nice try France. Who’s watching?

Yep. Watching. Crap sound on Amazon. Cant hear commentary over crowd noise and players.

This France 2nd 15 aren't bad

Now you see, this is the problem I have with England.  For all their wins they never seems to be as convincing as the AB’s do 95% of the time.  So far, not convincing for a team that have nearly 1000 caps on the field.

All the rugby from France. England need a plan B if smashing them up front doesnt work!

England are just dumb. Hate to use that word, but its the only way to describe their style (or lack of). A frustrating watch.

I'm watching on pirate feeds

Same old same old from England. No vision and no plan b. A wide pass or kick would have got them the try. If they cannot bully teams upfront then they have nothing to offer bar a bit of individual brilliance from someone.

The French players are no mugs and are playing with the hunger of players with something to prove.

I get he sense England have been surprised by the energy from France.

I have a feeling the French will run out of gas after 60 minutes - I hope not though

I think AA And Dez you have a point, it’s the usual England Issue of not being able to see what’s going on and switch to plan B. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">.  </span>

All the rugby from France. England need a plan B if smashing them up front doesnt work!

Trouble is, they also cling to the expectation that smashing them up front, even if it hasn't worked in the first half, will eventually yield results by tiring the opposition(!), so the plan B doesn't arrive until things are a bit desperate in the 70th minute.

I have a feeling the French will run out of gas after 60 minutes – I hope not though

See above.

It's on France 2 if you can access it, French comms obviously

I have a feeling the French will run out of gas after 60 minutes – I hope not though

Not this again. there is no great fitness gulf in the top teams nowadays and defending takes more out of you than attacking!

England need to be less risk averse and less predictable

Not this again. there is no great fitness gulf in the top teams nowadays and defending takes more out of you than attacking!

The point is that England will be bringing on replacements as good as those on the pitch, whereas France will be digging deeper still into their pool of players

That was never a highbtackle, ref doing his best for england

Am I watching Wimbledon or Twickenham?  For gods sake, England need a try, are kicking it away and Daley’s throwing it away far too early without committing players.  Centre looks toothless as well.  A really poor showing.

So, Farrell isn't a centre and can't kick goals. Good job he's still on the pitch though.

Bloody hell!

That's ridiculous! Can see England getting a quite undeserved win now 😆

Oof

No way - that was a pen to France

God intervening to correct things now.

Farrell took a bit hit early on - it's put his kicking radar off. I've seen it happen before

Thought this tournament was a bit of a damp squib, bit this finals weekends made up for it.
Good games topped of with a final to remember.

This has been a shit game for a non-afficionado, just who can kick it furthest before the oppo get bored and do something different. So far hasn't happened.

And yet, all of a sudden it's compelling watching.

Kicking 50/50 balls up in the air during sudden death is bonkers! Both teams doing it too.

Farrell took a bit hit early on – it’s put his kicking radar off. I’ve seen it happen before

Not sure it excuses him going in late on the kicker just now.

Oh my. Sorry France 😆

Good grief.  Well done France for making a game of that, I’m exhausted.

Yeah - that was good.

Never in doubt 😉

Even as Itoje won that penalty as he stood up again his eyes were saying 'Oh *, chance for another Farrell *-up'