Rugby 2020 – 2021 S...
 

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[Closed] Rugby 2020 – 2021 Season

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I was referring to AWJ he caught Darcy Graham with a swinging arm to the head. Mitigation? He was probably a bit woozy from an earlier contact.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 1:44 pm
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Gareth just said something interesting about Dupont which reminded me of something that England needs. I'm sure you might identify this in your own national side too, but I watch my team most critically.
"The ability not to be selfish"
i.e passing when you should instead of going into impossible odds in the hope you'll break the tackle.
Most noticeably Ford, Slade, and May held the ball yesterday when there were men outside, sometimes with good numbers, it is not something you see from the AB's, and it seems like such a basic, it annoys me when players hog the ball. Farell love him or hate him is normally good at drawing the man and passing.
It was less obvious yesterday with Wales or Scotland, or maybe I didn't notice.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 2:49 pm
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I like Luke Pearce.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 3:29 pm
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Very French from France so far!!


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 3:35 pm
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V good ref compared to the England game yesterday.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 3:39 pm
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Ireland looked good for a bit, when the card came I expected them to dominate. Losing 7 points whilst a man up is not a good sign.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 3:43 pm
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There a few backs with sticky hands. Devoto (so?) his passes are collectors items.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 3:47 pm
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Ouch!


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:07 pm
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Not much in it now. The way this 6 nations is going we could end up with every team except Italy on 3 wins.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:36 pm
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This is a great game.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:38 pm
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It’s not clear how Ireland are going to score again.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:48 pm
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This is a great game.

Yes, enjoyed that. Ireland played really well I thought, but never looked particularly threatening. I can only remember Ringrose looking a threat at times.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:56 pm
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France are a real force now they've got the defence and mentality sorted. Whatever they are paying Shaun Edwards it isn't enough


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:57 pm
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Whatever they are paying Shaun Edwards it isn’t enough

Market forces; more than the country of his birth were willing to.😃


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 4:59 pm
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Ireland played really well I thought, but never looked particularly threatening

Yeah they were contained, French didn't panic under the pressure, I mean there was 15+ phases there and Ire didn't really get a foothold. I thought the forwards were quite well matched, just Ireland needed their backs need to go to the dupont/thomas/jalibert school. All 5 nations will get schooled here.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 5:41 pm
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From here it looks like rd3:

Ireland need a win so will stomp Italy.

Wales will dig deep and find a way to make the RFU wonder what all the training has been about.
If England do lose to wales then they will somehow beat France in rd4. If England do beat Wales by a probably disputed point or more then all the UK press will talk about an insane England resurgence worthy of NZ/OZ/SA combined, when anyone watching will know damn well it was a lucky bounce or blind ref.

France will demolish a heroically dying Scotland.


 
Posted : 14/02/2021 6:02 pm
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On the back of the Willis injury (hope he returns fully fit). Is the real issue how the "ruck" is reffed. Back in the day it was a cuddle then a hoofing on the floor, obviously not in the modern game. There seems to be a lot of bridging and sealing the ball off. Does it need a tweak and refereeing to make sure both defending and attacking players support their weight.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:14 am
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I think the jackle needs removing, drive over and hands only used to take ball out the back. If a player has driven over then no one can come round the back of him as happens now


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:17 am
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Had a look at the stats for the Scotland game - such a one sided set of stats we should never have lost the game. But we did. There is going to need to be some hard analysis of that but 500m made compared to 150!


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:22 am
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There is going to need to be some hard analysis of that but 500m made compared to 150!

Not really, if your back 3 players take the ball from Wales usual long infield kicks they can run 15-20m unchallenged.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:29 am
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Also the rest of the stats, tackles made / missed, clean breaks etc.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:32 am
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What about red cards issued and points scored?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:44 am
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The only things you were ahead on

Scotland have been beaten before while ahead on the stats ( and i am sure other teams were) but given the nature of the stats we really should have been out of sight. Why we were not is where the analysis is needed.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:46 am
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It’s going to feel like a long wait till the next games. It seems futile pondering on who will play for Wales against England, when the players get broken so quickly.
However, I am concerned for when we do move on from both Halfpenny and Biggar we will lack a World class penalty kicker. For as long as I can remember Wales have been able to stay within sight by taking penalty kicks from anywhere in the opponent’s half. I fear that without that weapon in their armoury they will not be able to win in the way we have become accustomed to seeing. (It could be that Scotland would have won at the weekend if they had kicked their penalties).


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 8:47 am
 Bear
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Stats can be misleading depending on the type of game you and your opponents play. You can make loads of metres, breaks etc but the only have value in certain areas of the pitch.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:01 am
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As we saw yesterday, Ireland spent a lot of time in France's half.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:21 am
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However, I am concerned for when we do move on from both Halfpenny and Biggar we will lack a World class penalty kicker

Bigger will likely start next game, but Sheedy has good kicking stats for Bristol


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:36 am
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Tackles made just means you were defending like, if wales have all the possession, they won't make many tackles...


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:38 am
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anagallis - can you explain in more detail what you mean about getting rid of the jackel? reading this :

I think the jackle needs removing, drive over and hands only used to take ball out the back. If a player has driven over then no one can come round the back of him as happens now

You are proposing that you can drive over, use feet to push the ball back, then use hands to pick up ball if it becomes available under you. It used to be like this when I played (80's). You kind of made an ad hoc scrum over the tackled player and ball, so you could drive the opposition off and take the ball.

What I don't understand is this (assuming I understood the first bit):

no one can come round the back of him as happens now


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:42 am
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Jackler is the first person to arrive after the tackle, they try a get the ball, head down arse up, weight on elbows and then some massive unit comes in and smacks the in the back of the head, or neck. If they drive over like the good old days an opposition player just watches them go past and then moves round to get the ball.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:47 am
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Yeah OK, so you might need a rule that you cannot pick up the ball until you have driven over, so its like making an offside line?
EG after you have driven over the opposition cannot come around back as that would be offside until the ball is "out" like a scrum?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:50 am
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Tackles made just means you were defending like, if wales have all the possession, they won’t make many tackles…

True but you have to look beyond that, Ireland for example play a very safe keep ball game with one out runners, kick to compete a lot and it means teams often defend a lot against them but often that defence can routine. For example Francis made a huge number of tackles for Wales v ireland but for Wales if Francis is tackling lots of forwards in tight spaces the system is relatively unstressed


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:52 am
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Jackler is the first person to arrive after the tackle

I thought there was a rule about who could jackal , the tackler can Jackal, can anyone else?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:52 am
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I thought there was a rule about who could jackal , the tackler can Jackal, can anyone else?

The tackler can only jacket if he regains his feet and shows clear release of the tackled player, in which case he/she is effectively the first player to arrive at the tackle.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:54 am
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So if tackler goes down they roll away and the next person arriving can jackal? Does this carry on, can anyone jackal?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 9:57 am
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So if tackler goes down they roll away and the next person arriving can jackal? Does this carry on, can anyone jackal?

Yep, but only first defender can jackle. You see a lot of teams pinged recently due to a fair jackle but the tackler not realeasing or rolling away to disrupt the clear out.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:01 am
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True but you have to look beyond that, Ireland for example play a very safe keep ball game with one out runners, kick to compete a lot and it means teams often defend a lot against them but often that defence can routine. For example Francis made a huge number of tackles for Wales v ireland but for Wales if Francis is tackling lots of forwards in tight spaces the system is relatively unstressed

Yeah I think I also should have said this, ie the tackle count meaning changes depending on if you won or not...

EG:
lots of tackles - but still won - you contained the attack, or attack ineffective
lots of tackles - but lost - you didn't get much ball...

The point (as made by you and Bear) being that the raw stats don't necc mean much witho0ut the context.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:02 am
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Actually that's not strictly true, anyone can jackle until an attacking team player arrives and engages them, then it's a ruck and hands notvallowed


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:03 am
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Yep, but only first defender can jackle. You see a lot of teams pinged recently due to a fair jackle but the tackler not realeasing or rolling away to disrupt the clear out.

Ok thats what I thought, so either tackler can jackal or next man if tackler has gone down/rolled away.

edit, crossed psots

Actually that’s not strictly true, anyone can jackle until an attacking team player arrives and engages them, then it’s a ruck and hands notvallowed

Ok I have realised my confusion - there are threee types of breakdown, tackle, ruck, maul.
I always assumed tackle automatically became a ruck if they go down, but its not a ruck until the attackers engage, so jackaling can only happen until attackers engage then its a ruck?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:04 am
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but its not a ruck until the attackers engage, so jackaling can only happen until attackers engage then its a ruck?

Yep, pretty sure that's correct.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:55 am
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Surely somebody with such strident views would understand the rules of the game a bit better? Not speaking to AA here...


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 11:03 am
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Ok, thanks. Years of dumbness erased in 5 mins. I might understand reffing at the breakdown a little clearer now.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 11:13 am
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Surely somebody with such strident views would understand the rules of the game a bit better? Not speaking to AA here…

Laws, not rules 😜

Not that any of that jacking and clear out shite is in them anyway!


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 11:30 am
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Laws, not rules 😜

Changed to laws when everything came under the world rugby umbrella. Do try to keep up!


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 12:30 pm
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Interesting watching Bristol Gloucester. Almost like Bristol were allowing Gloucester to win a counter ruck. Which allowed them (Dan Thomas) to nip in behind and take the ball.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 1:03 pm
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Not that any of that jacking and clear out shite is in them anyway!

That could be why nobody has a ****ing clue what's going on.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 1:11 pm
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Interesting watching Bristol Gloucester. Almost like Bristol were allowing Gloucester to win a counter ruck. Which allowed them (Dan Thomas) to nip in behind and take the ball.

Remember in 16 or 17 when Italy outplayed us by not forming the ruck then coming round the side, and Haskell asked the ref for advice?


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 1:17 pm
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Loved when they did that. It shows good thinking, was countered by a rule change if I remember.
It's why sometimes rugby becomes turgid slogfests, standard method playing standard method. Scotland broke the norm last weekend. It's the ability to do that with skillful players that wins. England showed that when power was matched and front foot rugby challenged then plan B was lacking.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 3:21 pm
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Well yeah same story, the plan has changed and the England players got lost. It is all so disappointing.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 4:13 pm
 igm
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It was better in the old days.

They should go back to the old days with games to be preceded by a players lunch with a half gallon of bitter, heavy or stout per player minimum.

And fitness training to be regarded a illegal performance enhancement.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 5:02 pm
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plan B was lacking

Has always been the case in the EJ era, not sure if the issue lies with him or Farrel or more likely a combo of both.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 5:04 pm
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Has always been the case in the EJ era, not sure if the issue lies with him or Farrel or more likely a combo of both.

I seem to remember a lack of planB under lancaster too, I also remember everyone saying they were over coached.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/featured-post/24144/basic-errors-by-stuart-lancaster-cost-us-says-mike-friday/


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 5:52 pm
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Scotland broke the norm last weekend.

and lost, against a rag tag assortment of Welsh backs some of whom probably only met a few days before.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 6:01 pm
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and lost, against a rag tag assortment of Welsh backs some of whom probably only met a few days before.

I wonder if this says anything about light touch coaching. Just get your moist skilled available players together, point them at some of the oppositions coached in tactics and let them explore their own skills and inter-relationships between each other to beat it.
Just navel gazing, but it seems to me that the lack of plan B is probably due to rigid coaching. Welsh invention was good on Sat...


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 6:09 pm
 Bear
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Jones is a dictator as much as a coach, play my way or the highway. Players aren't coached to recognise situations and patterns, but taught plays to execute at certain times and positions, there is no plan B, never has been under Jones. Average coach of some very good players who are too scared to go against him.

He picks players that he knows can play the game the way he sees and are happy to do so rather than develop a style around the nucleus of the team and bring in players who complement that style.

Exeter are the best example of this in the premiership.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 6:50 pm
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Sorry, I don't watch much club rugby, but I want to so will be interested to see - are you saying Exeter are like the former:

players that he knows can play the game the way he sees and are happy to do

Or the latter:

develop a style around the nucleus of the team and bring in players who complement that style.


 
Posted : 15/02/2021 6:59 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56084565

Galthie test positive 😟🙄


 
Posted : 16/02/2021 9:09 pm
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Not good news - the French government were reluctant to let France compete in the 6N

good for Scotland if they are underprepared tho I guess


 
Posted : 16/02/2021 9:20 pm
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idGWaM6pZ3g


 
Posted : 16/02/2021 10:12 pm
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Interesting perspective...

England not aroused enough...


 
Posted : 16/02/2021 10:52 pm
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Physio/Fluffer required. Competitive Pay and Conditions. Apply at England Rugby, London, TW2.


 
Posted : 16/02/2021 11:08 pm
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Fagerson gets longer than POM, because his biscuits must have been shit.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:21 am
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I read the defence, "Mr Fagerson accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not feel that it warranted a red card." That's why he got longer. Under those circumstances what is the point of a hearing?


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 8:20 am
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Indeed, although from the other perspective its Henson level stupidity not to just doff your cap and say sorry. He obviously spent too much time talking to Hamish Watson


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 8:36 am
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So it's just a show trial. Admit guilt give nice biscuits take a lower ban but it's a ban no matter.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 3:08 pm
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France for the slam
Wales 2nd
England or Scotland 3rd


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 4:09 pm
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Rugby has always placed an undue amount of importance on making people say sorry and 'really meaning it'.

Just another hangover from the amateur era and another example of the game being a ****ing joke.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 4:40 pm
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Rugby has always placed an undue amount of importance on making people say sorry and ‘really meaning it’.

Just another hangover from the amateur era and another example of the game being a **** joke.

I wholeheartedly dissagree.

Rugby is a full on contact sport, what do you compare it to, boxing?

Repeated head impacts etc. can have life changing consequences for the players.

I think the sport is going the correct way in terms of carding people for foul moves and dodgy tackles.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 4:46 pm
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Rugby has always placed an undue amount of importance on making people say sorry and ‘really meaning it’.

Just another hangover from the amateur era and another example of the game being a **** joke.

Every rugby match or event I have ever been to has involved fans from both (or more than two sides) socialising drinking together and playing together, no fights, all good family fun.
I think the citing committee have to make people behave.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 5:42 pm
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I wholeheartedly dissagree.

Rugby is a full on contact sport, what do you compare it to, boxing?

Repeated head impacts etc. can have life changing consequences for the players.

I think the sport is going the correct way in terms of carding people for foul moves and dodgy tackles.

I wasn't talking about head impacts, I was talking about how all you have to do is say this:

and your ban is magically reduced by half regardless of your previous. If you don't then you get the book thrown at you. The naughty players know what to say so it makes a mockery of the whole system.

But it goes back to this amateur era idea of 'character' being the most important thing. It's bollocks.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 6:19 pm
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Rubbish, it takes character to apologise.
Otherwise we will have this bollocks https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55373546?

TBH Bruce if you think rugby is such a joke, then why are you here? Too me everyone is welcome on a forum unless the mods say otherwise, but if you just come here to tell everyone you hate rugby don't you think you should be considering your life choices?


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 6:53 pm
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Rubbish, it takes character to apologise.

It really doesn't.

I'm sorry.

See, I said I'm sorry and I didn't mean it.

TBH Bruce if you hate rugby, why are you here? Too me everyone is welcome on a forum unless the mods say otherwise, but if you just come here to tell everyone you hate rugby don’t you think you should be considering your life choices?

I like rugby. I don't like ****s who think it's a game of character, not like that wendyball rubbish.

I can't stand the exceptionalism #RugbyValues side of the game. It's an incredibly hypocritical game and yes, it is full to the rafters of total pricks. In that regard it's not unlike most sports but rugby has this class thing and it can't seem to accept the fact that it's no better than football, F1, or any other sport you care to mention.

If you want me to shut up and not talk about the elements or people in the game that piss me off then sorry (not sorry) but you can bugger off.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:03 pm
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If you want me to shut up and not talk about the elements or people in the game that piss me off then sorry (not sorry) but you can bugger off.

Not at all mate, it's not my place to ask anyone to leave, I just wanted to understand what your interest was.

I am one of the ****s who think it is a game of character, not like that wendyball rubbish, so apologies if you don't like me. But my experience of the game is that it is very inclusive, at club level upwards.
Sport is all about fans, thats the point. Rugby fans are always very welcoming.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:11 pm
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I am one of the **** who think it is a game of character, not like that wendyball rubbish, so apologies if you don’t like me.

Well, enjoy your feelings of exceptionalism.

Rugby fans are always very welcoming.

Except towards people who don't agree with rugby's exceptionalism?


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:18 pm
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Except towards people who don’t agree with rugby’s exceptionalism?

You are imagining things mate , I said:

it’s not my place to ask anyone to leave,

.
I'd welcome you and buy you pint.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:20 pm
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Well, what you actually said was

Too me everyone is welcome on a forum unless the mods say otherwise, but...

You know how when people say, 'I'm not racist but...'


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:41 pm
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Fair enough, you think whatever you like, I did not mean to say you are not welcome. In fact I said, and I will say it again, its not my place to say you are not welcome. I would welcome you and buy you a pint.
One thing. I try to speak clearly and plainly, if it doesn't come out that way I apologise.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:44 pm
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I apologise.

And now I know for an indisputable fact that you have character.

Consider your suspension halved.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:48 pm
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Well lucky for us both Bruce you have the same power to suspend me as I have to tell you that you are not welcome.


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 7:49 pm
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Bloody hell don't dare disagree with Bruce, he gets very agitated quite quickly!!


 
Posted : 17/02/2021 8:04 pm
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