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Well they certainly want them relegated 😂
They definitely want them out of the league which in all fairness has been bobbins this season.
Saracens, through their cheating over the years, have basically put other businesses in a situation where they've lost money by not hitting their own targets. (Losing revenue from advertisers, loss of support, income, sales by not reaching expected levels of competitions, etc.) Some of these businesses are now struggling. Some may have even gone broke because of loss of revenue.
Relegation seems a little light when they've achieved their own success by deliberately cheating others off the field.
Since rugby clubs are businesses, is there a fraud charge to be answered?
https://www.theoffsideline.com/2010-croke-park-hero-johnnie-beattie-ready-to-tackle-new-challenges/
Didn't realise Johnnie Beattie had retired. He's one of those players where I feel the game passed him by, a bit. Saying that, I don't follow French rugby that closely so maybe he was setting the world on fire over there after his move from Glasgow.
I can't get the point of keeping deducting points from Sarries, I accept why etc, but to keep doing it and then letting them carry on playing for the remainder of the season in the Prem and Champions Cup is beyond me. Kick them out, they are non-compliant with the competition rules and it has already skewed significantly the outcomes of them.
God Dammit not selected!!
Real shame that Navidi is injured again.
Wales: 15. Leigh Halfpenny (85 Caps), 14. Johnny McNicholl (*Uncapped), 13. George North (91 Caps), 12. Hadleigh Parkes (25 Caps), 11. Josh Adams (21 Caps), 10. Dan Biggar (79 Caps), 9. Tomos Williams (16 Caps), 1. Wyn Jones (22 Caps), 2. Ken Owens (73 Caps), 3. Dillon Lewis (22 Caps), 4. Jake Ball (42 Caps), 5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (134 Caps), 6. Aaron Wainwright (18 Caps), 7. Justin Tipuric (72 Caps), 8. Taulupe Faletau (72 Caps)
Replacements: 16. Ryan Elias (9 Caps), 17. Rob Evans (36 Caps) 18. Leon Brown (6 Caps), 19. Cory Hill (24 Caps), 20. Ross Moriarty (41 Caps), 21. Rhys Webb (31 Caps), 22. Jarrod Evans (3 Caps), 23. Nick Tompkins (*Uncapped).
I’m a little surprised Gareth Davies is not playing and a little disappointed Rees-Zammit is not on the bench. Is this what would be regarded as the best team available, or a somewhat experimental side to play Italy? Would the best team to play against Italy necessarily be the best team to play against England, France or Ireland?
Ah, I didn’t realise G Davies was injured.
So, I’m getting quite excited now we’re almost there. I know people on here are rather reticent to make predictions, but make my waiting a little easier - what d’ya reckon we can expect this weekend?
Is the France v England game the toughest to call?
What would be a good outcome for each team?
What would be a good outcome for each team?
A win surely??
Wales to win the 6N in my opinion, tough call between England and Ireland 2nd/3rd but the Jnr upstarts inn the French team may be the decider in that.
I'm still thinking England could go to pieces given whats going on with the disruption in the team and the Sarries issues, so it could be worse than being beaten by Wales.
What would be a good outcome for each team?
A win surely??
I suppose so, but I was hoping someone would provide a little more, as there are people who know a lot more than me here. ie is a narrow win enough for Wales against Italy? If Wales run in 6 tries will that be seen as an excellent start, or put down to a poor Italy performance? Would you not know until more games have been played?
A win for Scotland would obviously be a good result, but will they be happy just not to be nilled, since they lost 27-3 on neutral ground in the World Cup and don’t have Finn Russell or Greg Laidlaw playing.
I’m still thinking England could go to pieces given whats going on with the disruption in the team and the Sarries issues, so it could be worse than being beaten by Wales.
England could ‘go to pieces’, but I think it’s more likely they’ll play really well in most of their games. But, but... who knows? Tell me to stop, I can’t wait!
Wales to win the 6N in my opinion
Based on?
England World Cup Finalists with a settled team and consistent coachingvteam should be major favourites.
Wales have Ireland and England away this season, have a new coach and only 1 experienced centre fit. 3 wins at home and sneak a win v Ireland or England away will be a cracking result.
If Wales run in 6 tries will that be seen as an excellent start, or put down to a poor Italy performance?
That could happen as the backline has serious pace and North given plenty of ball could go well. Cant see him doing so well v better teams though. He will also have a lot of pressure on him to organise the defence, when to blitz and when to drift and that wasnt a strength of his on the wing, he often bites in early and gets done round the outside.
Love the look of the backrow, if those 3 hit form thats a seriously good backrow.
I wonder how important Shaun Edward's defence will be for France? That may well be the factor they need to start being consistent again.
I suppose so, but I was hoping someone would provide a little more, as there are people who know a lot more than me here
Sorry, was being flippant.
I reckon its grand slam or wooden spoon for England. They either want to show they should have done better in the WC final and Sarries players want to prove how good they are, or they go to pieces....
Ireland have got something to prove as well though and France have nothing to loose with their young team.
Why are people expecting England to be shit? I'm expecting continued momentum from World Cup.
Having said that the French backs look tasty. Vakatawa and Fickou in centres and Thomas and Penaud on wings.....awesome. not sure about the full back as I dont think I've seen him play but its not Huget so it must be better!!
Scotland - you know the story
Why are people expecting England to be shit?
Don't you read the news?
a) Because its the correct approach in the same ways the AB's are expected to win.
b) Because England are not by a long chalk the AB's just 'cause of one WC final appearance
c) They were well beaten in the RWC
d) They were in the RWC ranking the best of the NH, everyone will be gunning to beat them to disprove that
e) Key injuries
f) The Sarries issue
g) New players in key positions
h) Is Eddie or the players as hungry or driven now?
g) They don't have as much home advantage this year
h) Ben Youngs
I) Daley at FB
g) France
h) Brexit, of course...
I reckon its grand slam or wooden spoon for England.
Why are people expecting England to be shit? I’m expecting continued momentum from World Cup.
I still think they have to be favourites at this point, but I feel there is a chance that some of the issues Kryton57 mentions could see them stutter. Their World Cup was somewhere between the World’s greatest team ever, as suggested by some pundits after the Australia game and the NZ semi- final; and woeful as suggested after the final. They did pretty well in the group stages, without truly impressing the game against France would have been interesting and it’s a shame it was cancelled. There is close to no chance that England will get the wooden spoon imho. Scotland will try their best to take it off Italy 😂.
Bet 365
England 4/5
Ireland 4/1
Wales and France 11/2
Scotland 25/1
Italy 1000/1
England hot favs.
Betting odds reflect the amount of bets tho - as well as the actually probability.
Yeah cause people bet on who they think will lose dont they!!!!
If the odds reflect the number of bets it stands to reason (doesn’t it?) that the population (number) of England fans is likely to be larger and thus more likely that support for (numbers of bets on) England will be high? Or does the bookie take this into account?
Couldn’t see this above, so:
Scotland team to face Ireland
Hogg, capt (Exeter Chiefs); Maitland (Saracens), Jones (Glasgow Warriors), Johnson (Glasgow Warriors), Kinghorn (Edinburgh); Hastings (Glasgow Warriors), Price (Glasgow Warriors); Sutherland (Edinburgh), Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Z Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors); Cummings (Glasgow Warriors), J Gray (Glasgow Warriors); J Ritchie (Edinburgh), Watson (Edinburgh), Haining (Edinburgh).
Replacements: McInally (Edinburgh), Dell (London Irish), Berghan (Edinburgh), Toolis (Edinburgh), Du Preez (Worcester Warriors), G Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Hutchinson (Northampton Saints), Harris (Gloucester).
I’m not overly familiar with a lot of these players, but there are a few I do know and find exciting to watch: eg Jones and Watson.
Is it a strong team this year?
Haining is a young scot / aussie 8. Good ball player and elusive runner Sutherland another import - huge beast of a prop Who else do you not know?
Its not a strong team . Missing a world class 10! Hastings is a real talent but far too raw and too full of himself. Irish back row will smash him as he runs up blind alleys.
The pack is missing a hard man in the Hamilton role - an enforcer
Selection remains all over the place and we have lost our most exciting back3 player - Darcy Graham. Who knows - if the backs click we could do some damage but I think even beating Italy might be a stretch. Pack is a bit powder puff
Burko - thats how the odds shift - a lot of bets for england to win the odds drop
I guess that’s what I’m saying if there are 4m people in wales and 60m people in England ( and I know the proportion of those likely to bet on rugby won’t be proportionate) surely there will always be more “supportive betters” in a population of 60m than one of 4 m?
yes -thats it and thus why although england are most likely to win the odds may make it look more likely than it is - thus its not a good bet
yes -thats it and thus why although england are most likely to win the odds may make it look more likely than it is – thus its not a good bet
Having said that the if the Bookies didnt think England were likely winners they'd lengthen the odds to get people to bet on them. England are strong favourites as they have the best team, consistent and quality coaching team (It hurts saying that) and the best form. It seems odd that Kryton comes here and tries to say Wales are favourites, when they have a new untried coach, no fit centre options and injuries to at least 3 of our better players (Jiffy Junior, Loopy Liam and Navidi) as well as away trips to Twickers and Dublin.
TJ the Scottish 15 looks good but the bench looks weak to me.
Ireland could go well this season, excited by Lamour finally getting to replace the ponderous Kearney.
There are decent players in the scots side and a decent blend of youth and experience. However there are some glaring holes. No power runner anywhere ( vunopola / tuilagi types). No hard edge to the pack ie no enfoircer in the Hamilton / Johnson mould. We have lost our best player in Finn and hastings is OK but inexperienced internationally and a bit slow between the ears. the Irish back row will be all over him all game and he does not have the skill to counter this. Losing Darcy Graham is a huge loss and starting Price over G Horne is a mistake. We have no back up 10
I really think Ireland will put 30 pts on us and I do not see where tries are coming from
England are certainly favourites.
It seems odd that Kryton comes here and tries to say Wales are favourites, when they have a new untried coach, no fit centre options and injuries to at least 3 of our better players (Jiffy Junior, Loopy Liam and Navidi) as well as away trips to Twickers and Dublin.
Yet they are a good team with lots of experience and great on field decision making most of the time that probably should have also been in the RWC final. I just think when the going gets tough comparing Wales fortitude on the field with England’s then Wales come out on top.
England have so many distractions and although I suspect Eddies coached them to leave those behind, when the fatigue and scoreboard aren’t going thier way those will kick in and cause more indecision than usual. You don’t think the oppo won’t be laughing in their ears about the Sarries issues every time there is a ruck maul or scrum?
You don’t think the oppo won’t be laughing in their ears about the Sarries issues every time there is a ruck maul or scrum?
I dont see how it matters to the England team, if anything it should motivate the Saracens players more.
probably should have also been in the RWC final.
Should could might..... didnt. Beaten by a better SA side and cant beat NZ.
England: 15 George Furbank, 14 Jonny May, 13 Manu Tuilagi, 12 Owen Farrell, 11 Elliot Daly, 10 George Ford, 9 Ben Youngs; 1 Joe Marler, 2 Jamie George, 3 Kyle Sinckler, 4 Maro Itoje, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Courtney Lawes, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Tom Curry
Replacements: 16 Luke Cowan-Dickie, 17 Ellis Genge, 18 Will Stuart, 19 George Kruis, 20 Lewis Ludlam, 21 Willi Heinz, 22 Ollie Devoto, 23 Jonathan Joseph.
No real surprises except for Furbank. Thats a hell of a back row for a new French team to negotiate, definitely a statement to win being made. The Finishers should cut France to pieces if the starters have done their work* I suspect thats Genge, Kruis, & Farrell/Joseph/Devoto
*Image of Thomas Castignade springs to mind.
I thought Cowan Dickie had gone home for family reasons?
Edit : just seen he has rejoined the squad.
Thats a hell of a back row for a new French team to negotiate
Really a 5 @ 6 and a 7 @ 8? None of them carry into traffic especially well although Englands front 5 are better at most at that task.
Forgetting about numbers AA but Lawes - who has played 6 many times, Underhill and Curry are solid carriers and tacklers, and all of them more experienced at this level than their French counterparts. We then have the locks of which at the least we know of Itoje's capability, and George & Sinklers lines and hands. I don't think England will be very easy to handle up front in attack or defence.
Difficult to see past England for the title and probably the Grand Slam.
but Lawes – who has played 6 many
And never been that impressive. France may not expose him but good teams will.
Lawes looks like a good option against the French.
Likes to put hits on the half backs, and with curry and Underhill will test them.
All 4 French halfs are very young. Might be best way to stop ball before their backs have fun.
Good extra lineout option too when it looked like a new hooker was playing
Big tournament this time too.
Seedings for next word cup groups this November. World rankings star to become important again.
And never been that impressive. France may not expose him but good teams will.
This a lot. He’s a very good lock and can do a job at six at domestic level but he’s proved on many occasions that he’s not an international back row option. Glad Daly isn’t at full back; tough game for Furbank to start oh but he’s looked good this season.
Back row is a worry; Curry is fab but an international eight he ain’t. If Essie is happy to go with a light eight, why not Simmonds who plays there every week?
Daly is a great player, just needs to nail down a position.
Lawes is a damn fine lock but he's just the wrong shaped for a six, England have a bloody good front five which makes life easier for the back row, but the three for Sunday are a big step down from the hobbit, curry and vunipola, that had balance this one doesnt. Drombrandt or similar would be good at 8 or maybe Morgan.
Daly is a great player, just needs to nail down a position.
Lawes is a damn fine lock but he’s just the wrong shaped for a six, England have a bloody good front five which makes life easier for the back row, but the three for Sunday are a big step down from the hobbit, curry and vunipola, that had balance this one doesnt. Drombrandt or similar would be good at 8 or maybe Morgan.
Daly is indeed a fab player but he’s not a FB; he’s a centre who can play in the wing. He’s not good enough defensively or under the high ball to be a top FB.
The back row looks unbalanced like this; there a few eights he could have picked. Dombrandt, Hughes (who’s actually been ok for Brizzol) and Simmonds.
Here we go 😁. Everyone ready? Good luck to everyone, let’s have some great rugby (and no injuries).
Ps I was thinking we might see a few drop goals this weekend, what d’ya reckon?
Oh god. We have to suffer Chieka again.
Chieka has been ok so!!
Love the Italian anthem!!
Good luck everyone!!
I might get a Dan Biggar tattoo!
Biggar has balls of steel, maybe not world class but he's certainly a competitor!!
Nice start from Tompkins!!
George North always seems to be running awkwardly, like he still has hamstring problems.
Halfpenny has looked really good the last few times I’ve seen him play, and is going well today.
Wales seem a little too keen to throw the ball around wildly, I thought it was Scotland at one point!
I thought North looked uncomfortable in the warm up. He’s been relatively anonymous so far.
Gone a bit ****ing dull now!!
Nice!
Agreed, had gone a tad dull. Debut tries are particularly nice.
Why’s Shane Warne commentating?
Ran out of coke and hookers!
Why’s Shane Warne commentating?
Dunno, but he’s been interesting for me.
Yeah tbf I cant stand Chieka but he's been good.
Job done for Wales, good start Pivac. Plenty to work on.
It’s always the same against Italy, hammer them and it’s only Italy.
An easy 42:0 win, I'll take that.
North still learning, Faletau quiet and scrum needs to improve, might see a change of loosehead next week.
C’mon Scotland 🏴
North looks incredibly pedestrian. Can’t think he’d be around for much longer when the injuries heal.
Fast start for the Scots!
Can’t fault Scotland’s attitude. Would it be unfair to say they lack a little composure when 5m from the line?
Ireland look dangerous on the break.
Unbelievable from Hogg. Also it’s irritating that he celebrates his ‘try’ when he knows he’s dropped it. Rugby has picked up too much of the rubbish from football.
Scotland doing well at the mo I think.
Not sure either side will be particularly happy with that game.
You're allowed to just pop up in the scrum now? Referee bottled that one. Among others.
Could've been worse I guess but not confidence inspiring performance.
I thought the ref was a bit of a homer for Ireland. Nice to see tge Scottish scrum go well!
Neither game a classic today let's hope England and France do better tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1223682256595755008
Hogg really is a vile specimen.
Bit harsh, games full of ****s, some of them are even welsh!
Talking of scrum halfs, how shit was Webb today!
That was a howler from Hogg, sheesh.
Has anyone heard from TJ?
First match for me was frustrating, we were all over Ireland but kept giving away penalties, that last one at their try line was just agonising. Really hope Scotland put such effort into their next matches but we need to stop making stupid discipline mistakes.
Hastings put on a good performance. Wouldn't say Hogg was vile, bit harsh.
Nah AA his cheap shot on Biggar, his WC antics and trying to claim his fumble, weapons grade cockwomble, just my opinion don’t want to set you off 😂😂
I think he did it almost out of embarrassment. Not sure but I think he might have apologised the ref afterwards. A couple of seasons at Exeter should sort him out - they don’t really go in for pretensions or other bullshit.
Ignore Pigface, He came home early from work one day and Hoggs car was in the drive....
Hogg and Ducky sitting in a tree ......... 😉😉😉
...Hoggs car was in the drive fishpond. Woopsie...