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James O'Lowe in the Ireland squad for the next autumnwatch cup.
At club level he's Leinster's best back , imo, so could be good to see how this goes at international level.
Feels like the 19-20 season has run it's course now.
Could be time for a new thread and get started with the Fin for the lions arguments.
new thread? 2020 over??? I just got amazon prime to watch the 2020 autumn nations cup!
new thread? 2020 over??? I just got amazon prime to watch the 2020 autumn nations cup!
I think the point is that is part of the 2020-2021 season. Last season needs to end at some point.
yeah, Is ee that now...
Ruddy Welsh – broke both our 10s
Thats not good news is it! Hope they are both mended soon. Hastings is a long one isnt it.
All Wales games are on S4c.
Will the 30 day free trial cover all the games? I will happily forego the the Scotland italy and england Georgia games mind.
Oi AA - that was supposed to start a fight not you being all nice! who stole your login?
Hastings is out for 6 months at least. Russell should be back in 2 or 3.
Yes 13th Nov to 6th Dec, so start any time from tomorrow to the 13th and you are good.
Oi AA – that was supposed to start a fight not you being all nice!
Well you didnt take my bait last week so why should I take yours this!!!🤪🤪🤪
Itoje and Ryan for the lions
Johnny grey can stay home with Wyn Jones
😉
We have a new weapon to replace Russell and Hastings - Duncan Weirs hair
Johnny grey can stay home with Wyn Jones
A lock and a prop? What's the link?
😀
A lock and a prop? What’s the link?
I agree, Wyn Jones needs to work on his allround game, good scrumager but not even the best loose head in Wales let alone Lions material.
On current form only Adams is approaching Lions test quality from Wales imo.
No Biggar? Not at his best this year but of the choices at 10 I would take him and probably play him as the best suited to the lions and to play against SA
Loopy Liam as well - I rate him highly the bandy legged twerp
Anyone fill in any gaps?
Hogg
Watson
Henshaw if he can stay fit?
Aki?
Adams
Farrel
God knows
Vunipola
Samewise
Dont know
Itoje
Ryan
Dont know
George
Healy on current form.
Liam has played 2 games since the world cup. Farrel has more to his game than Biggar imo.
I just thing Biggar more suited on a horses for courses pick.
As for your team - surely Price is in contention for 9. McInally and Brown much better than George at hooker. Good at the core hooker role but much faster over the ground and much better at the breakdown.
Backrow - on form both Ritchie and Watson should be in the mix but neither will go I bet. too small for Gatland
Fagerson at prop?
I think loopy just has that x factor / ability to turn games. I'd take him ( on the wing of course 😉 )
Tom Curry should be in there, I’d probably have Jonathan Davies, Slade available for centre. May should be available also.
Seems a bit wrong not have Alun-Wynn in the team.
Does Gatland come up with a plan to beat SA and choose the best players suited for that plan, or does he choose the best players and come up with a plan using them? Would it be the same plan and players anyway?
Considering how comfortably England beat NZ in the semifinal of the World Cup, something went wrong in the final. What will Gatland do differently with a large number of the same players? Gatland himself is off form, does that carry through to the Lions Tour, or is that different?
I think Tipuric, must also be in with a shout. It would not surprise me to see AWJ go, for his leadership and experience - even if he’s not first shout to play in the tests.
Dupont
Curry and Slade on current form I'd say.
9 is tough isn't it....probably Murray?! I like that Welsh 9....Gareth Davies? Ben Youngs has had very good form recently too.
I'd like to see Jamie Ritchie out there too.
9 is easy - Price.
Rusell at 10
Farrell at 12
Tuillangi/Davies at 13
I very much doubt Price will be the starting 9! Nor Russell the starting 10!
Tuilagi is going to really struggle to be fit for it....out for 6 months.
9 is easy – Price.
Price was woeful against Wales. So, so, slow.
Think we're short at 12 more than 10 , easier to bring in someone quality there.
If not Russell, Simmonds at Exeter.
EJ obviously doesn't like him but has the skills, the record, temperament. And experience in champions cup is next best thing when your national coach won't pick you.
FYI full tv Schedule here https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/autumn-nations-cup-schedule-amazon-rugby-live-stream-channel-4-free-england-ireland-643426
Round 1:
Ireland vs Wales, 7pm on 13 November – Channel 4
Italy vs Scotland, 12.45pm on 14 November – Amazon
England vs Georgia, 3pm on 14 November – Amazon
France vs Fiji, TBC on 15 November – Amazon
Round 2:
Italy vs Fiji, 12.45pm on 21 November – Amazon
England vs Ireland, 3pm on 21 November – Channel 4 and Amazon
Wales vs Georgia, 5.15pm on 21 November – Amazon
Scotland vs France, 3pm on 22 November – Amazon
Round 3
Scotland vs Fiji, 1.45pm on 28 November – Amazon
Wales vs England, 4pm on 28 November – Amazon
France vs Italy, 8pm on 28 November – Amazon
Ireland vs Georgia, 2pm on 29 November – Channel 4
Finals Weekend
Georgia vs TBD, 12pm on 5 December – Amazon
Ireland vs TBD, 2.15pm on 5 December – Amazon
Wales vs TBD, 4.45pm on 5 December – Amazon
England vs TBD, 2pm on 6 December – Amazon
Feisty game in the bledisloe cup! 8 all at the half
Price was controlling the game not slow - he is one of the quickest servers when appropriate. In cracking form and his passing has improved to the point he is pinpoint all the time. So much better a player than the other options.
Rusell at 10
Farrell at 12
No no and thrice no
Russell needs familiar players around him so unless Gatland is going to build the team around him then no point in playing him - and he is not a Gatland style player
Farrell is not a 12 and completely pointless playing a slow ( between the ears and on the ground) guy outside Russell
Fabulous bledisloe cup game.
One thing of note - not a single "not rolling away" penalty in the 3 bedisloe cup games I have watched - why? - 'cos they roll away!
I watched Watson in the Wales game the other weak, he drifts in and out of the game too much for my liking. Curry and the Hobbit on flanks looks good. We are going to need a physical team to play SA and the lack of warm up matches means players like Russel just wont get a look in imo. It takes too long to get players to be able to think whats he is going to do before he does it and just reacting to him wont be quick enough. If he played for ireland or england who will supply most of the players he'd have more chance. Shame, he's the best 10 in many ways.
Other than Hogg the scots players will need to kick on a lot between now and then to get a test spot. The welsh players even more so, a few like AWJ, Faletau and Jiffy Junior may go on rep but will be dirt trackers unless they get back to their best.
Farrell is not a 12 and completely pointless playing a slow ( between the ears and on the ground) guy outside
You need to open both eyes, Farrell is a damn good player with good vision and a great range of accurate passes. And thats from me, talking about an England player!
AA - but he is so slow! ( a decent passer if not in Russells class) If he goes it has to be at ten.
I completely agree about russell for the lions - a shame as he really is a special talent
Here is a Bolter - Scott Cummings in the second row. Just a youngster but incredibly athletic and in fantastic form. give him a good 6N and he could well be in the squad
Settled well in France. And in the to few British 10s, got to be on the plane.
Think he's benefited from Paris, he's a better player now, with more top level experience.
And no disrespect to Scotland, but he plays better with better players round him in France. Having a quality rugby brain like Farrell outside him might just help him step up a level.
Settled well in France. And in the to few British 10s, got to be on the plane.
Agree with that. Farrel, Russell then one of Biggar or Sexton probably although other options may come through by then.
I just see no point in taking Russell unless he is going to be the number one and have the team built around him - and familiar players around him greatly increases his effectiveness
for the lions he just is not the man. You need more conventional players who can slot in / are interchangeable
Who knows tho - Gatland could surprise us all by changing the habits of a lifetime and taking a risky option or two and making Russell his first choice 10 would certainly be that.
You need to open both eyes, Farrell is a damn good player with good vision and a great range of accurate passes. And thats from me, talking about an England player!
And although perhaps not in a good way for internationals, he has a er, "robust" mentality that's good for a Lions v SA setup. For me its Farrell and Sexton.
I think Farrel at 10 with 2 good centres, 2 in form wingers/back three (I'd choose May, Conway, Earls and Nowell if available) with Ant Watson, Stuart Hogg at full back. I think with SA you need a good defence all the way to 13, yet some creatively and pace at 13,11,14 and 15 coming on to the ball.
Earls
What? Keet Earls? Surely a joke?
Watson has never really impressed me at 15. Bloody good winger though. Conway is bang average in international terms as is Nowell. Adams is better than all of them and a bolter or two like Rhys Zammit might come through as well. If Loopy gets back to form and stays fit him and Hogg will battle for the 15 shirt unless Larmour gets back in, hes quality.
Others who could force their way in with a good 6N would be Graham and Duhan - the two scots wings.
To sum up - put your teams players in 3 categories for the lions, on the plane, in the reckoning, outside chance
Scots
On the plane: Hogg, Russell, (I think Gatland will take him even tho I do not agree)
In the reckoning: Watson, Ritchie, Gray, Brown, McInally, Price,
Outside chance: Cummings, Graham, Duhan
On the plane: Adams
In the reckoning: L Williams, J Davies, Biggar, G Davies, Webb, T Williams, Faletau, Tips. AWJ
Outside chance: S Lewis-Hughes, Moriarty, Navidi, Wainwright, L Rees-Zammit
All of them apart from Adams this rests on them actually starting to play like we have seen them in the past!
On the plane: Curry, Farrel, May, Watson, George, Sinkler, Slade, Mako, Itoje
In the reckoning: Underhill, Billy V, Youngs, Genge
Outside chance: Nowell, Ford,
I would say Billy Vunipola and Underhill are nailed on if fit and on form.
I'd bump Billy V and Underhill up into on the plane.
I'd bump Nowell up into the 'in contention' camp. He was a test lion last time and Gatland is a big fan.
Scotland wise I genuinely think Darcy Graham will be on the plane! Hogg as starting 15, Russell definitely on the plane. I'd love to see how Jamie Ritchie would go. Jonny Grey should get his chance as a tourist finally. A few others in contention too.
Wings, Watson, May, Adams and one more maybe, it may just be 3 as Loopy could cover both. Obviously injuries could play a major role.
Stockdale?
Poor form post lockdown though....playing 15 has contributed to that though!
Is JD2 likely to be back in form then a_a?
Such an awesome Lion over the last 3 tours!
I forgot Fagerson the prop - he must be in contention as well.
A lot of rugby to be played between now and then tho. I'd really like to see Graham go - he is such a good player.
Other big question......Captain?
My money would be on Farrell. Personal pick would be to get a time machine to pick 2017 JD2 for the 2021 tour and have him as captain
Is JD2 likely to be back in form then a_a?
Who knows, he shouldnt be playing for Wales in his second game back for sure!
Stockdale would be in the frame if on form but he's been exposed in defence recently.
Also, will SOB have his customary run of form prior to the test series and get a few more caps? He only ever seems to be fit for Lions tours!
I would imagine Farrell will be captain
Captain?
A lot of people seem to expect Itoje to take that, but he’s never Captained internationally. I also don’t thing he carry’s an “aura” in the same way Johnson, Kieth Wood, Alun-Wynn, POC etc have in the past. Farrel maybe.
James Lowe could be the other wing, this year's John Bentley.
Larmour could be useful if recovered.
Both better than Earls, Conway, or Stockdale.
Interesting to see opposing fans pov though.
And the captain is always a lock when they go to SA.
Ryan? Itoje? Win Jones?
AWJ is still a possible captain. I thought I heard Gatland say the captain doesn’t necessarily need to be playing/in the first team (it may have been someone else however).
And Ringrose is a better player than both Irish centres already mentioned.
Defence works better with Ringrose at 13, and one of aki or Henshaw. Attack too.
SOB has had his time, bit too broken now.
Dan leavy is just starting to get gametime after a year out injured. Nearest equivalent of he gets back to where he was
And Ringrose is a better player than both Irish centres already mentioned.
Defence works better with Ringrose at 13, and one of aki or Henshaw. Attack too.
Thats a fair point, I just got excited by Henshaws try last week. Aki isnt great but 12 isnt an area of strength tbh
Ringrose is a damn fine player.
Ooh I forgot Ringrose....definitely on the plane!
@loum with regards to James Louwe....I did wonder myself, but I specifically remember Gatland not picking someone in one of his previous tours on the grounds of 'not understanding the history' enough....ie they'd only recently qualified through residency. EDIT was it in reference to W P Nel several years back?
@Kryton yeah I've seen the Itoje comments.....I mean if fit he's probably one of the clearest cut first choices for the test XV so that puts him in contention....I'm not even sure he's captained a pro game though has he? Was he U23 England Captain? His captaincy CV is fairly blank (the rest of his CV isn't half bad like)
If James Lowe plays for Ireland like he’s played for Leinster, he will be a test starter alongside Adams. He makes the game look so easy and fun. A lethal back 3 with Liam Williams, and one that should be able to target Kolbe with cross-field kicks.
JD2 will go, helped by his Lions experience and relatively weak midfield options. Needs to fix his gammy peg tho.
I would be surprised if Itoje is captain of the Lions as his first captaincy. My money is on AWJ as captain.
I’d love to see Russel start the tests, but I just don’t see Gatland going with him. He’d need to have a pretty error free 6N to displace Farrel. Bad timing with his injury. I think it will be Farrel 10, Biggar on the bench.
Back row is anybody’s guess. Haskell to come out of retirement? Both Curry brothers? Sam Warbuton???!
No captaincy experience does not rule Itoje out imo. He is imo growing as a player and as a person. His comments on swing low were spot on and I would be happy with him as captain. Plenty of experience around him.
tj you’ll like this - further evidence that I haven’t a clue what I’m talking about, as Squidge praises Ali Price 😀
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4c6spOSkrbQ
I did enjoy that even if Squidge ( as a welsh fan) spent most of it analysing wales faults rather than what the scots did well.
for me the most gratifying thing abut that game was the control in the last 10 minutes. something Scotland are not renowned for 🙂 Price was a big part of that and since he got Townsends and Rennies boots up his fundament a year or two has improved greatly and become a better player
On Price - who is a better 9 right now eligible for the lions?
Lions tour captain will be AWJ. He’s a favourite of Gatland and if he’s in an kind of form he’ll at least be on the bench come test time.
It’s a long way to the Lions but we could probably throw 15-20 names in the hat that will be on the plane. Not the best players this autumn but the tried and tested Lions tourists with big game experience and proven track records. Not all of them will be test match day players though.
On Price – who is a better 9 right now eligible for the lions?
Williams, Webb and Davies and thats just from Wales!
Bollox AA! 🙂 A well reasoned argument I think you will find 🙂
Davies was playing last weekend and did not look anywhere as good as Aldi Price
Youngs
Nominated for 6N's player of the year. Lost to Dupont ironically....bags of experience, world cup finalist, excellent relationship with Farrell whom is likely to be the starting 10.
Just fringe one other country...
Murray
Cooney
Blade
Marmion
Casey
Gibson park
McGrath
Youngs is nowhere near Prices class although regular playing with Farrell might be to his advantage
Murray if he regains the form of the last few years is a good shout especially if Sexton goes, Prices form is excellent right now
Sexton shouldn't go.
He's had enough injuries and needs gametime managed and more recovery than a lions tour affords.
For a one off game, still the best. But if you need someone to play 3 times in a month, no chance.
Would be best left at home. If it comes to the third test and everyone else is broken, then fly him over.
Murray would work well with anyone at 10, good enough in his own right.
Would improve a player like Russell.
Was listening.to three Scots 80s internationals yesterday discussing the lions. They reckoned AWJ probably wouldn't go.
He's still a force to be reckoned with but the schedule coming of the back of this season and heading to very hard pitches it might be better to take some of the up and coming second rows.
No one rates Price then!
Sexton shouldn’t go.
He’s had enough injuries and needs gametime managed and more recovery than a lions tour affords.
One of the main reasons Gatland made for his Wales World Cup team selection was the players needing to be robust enough and not carrying injuries. So, I think you’re likely correct about Sexton. That could be a big factor for a number of Wales’ potential selections too I’d have thought.
I rate Price TJ....just think that he's not overly experienced, has only been the first choice 9 for Scotland for what...12 months? Murray if back on form, Youngs and the two Welsh 9's are more experienced and all great players too. There's no real stand out 9 though imo.
Another question TJ....whom are the 10's at the Scottish domestic sides? Adam Hastings is one isn't he? Whom else? I was quite surprised that Ducan Weir is next in line after Russell and Hastings....
Youngs
Nominated for 6N’s player of the year. Lost to Dupont ironically….bags of experience, world cup finalist, excellent relationship with Farrell whom is likely to be the starting 10.
Just a shame he's shit.
Tomos Williams is better than Price, shame he's broken
Whom is first choice 9 for Wales if all are fit? I always think that Gareth Davies looks the best.
Another question TJ….whom are the 10’s at the Scottish domestic sides?
Hastings at Glasgow with Peter Horne as Backup
A chap called Jaco Van Der Walt at Edinburgh who qualifies for Scotland mid November but is in quarantine right now having gone to SA to get married - no backup 10
Ally Price has 27 caps for scotland - hardly inexperienced He was first capped 4 years ago. He was first choice for a while then his form dipped then he came back to top form to cement his place as number 1