[Closed] Road rage/dangerous driving in company van. Report to employer?

Big company? yes for sure. Small local company? No, just the police.

definitely report to the company - they have a duty of care to their employees and if they know the guy has a problem with anger management, they might offer him counselling and retraining. 😉

I would send to the company.
Do some research first though to make sure it isn't just a one man band.

There's no such thing as overkill in a situation like this.

Go full on ****in Von Clausewitz on them.

So proud of myself for finding the vid I wanted AND posting it on STW first time. I should get a job in IT.

Oh, I do work in IT , 🙂

No question, report him to the company. C###'s like that need to face the consequences of their rage.
Next time it could be a child cycling to school who goes under the wheels of the van, and it's doubtful he'd stop.
I'll get the gun...

Big company? yes for sure. Small local company? No, just the police.

Commercial refrigeration etc across the NW, at least 6 vans, turnover probably close to 1 million.

Based in irlam?

If so yeah and deffo send to police

Report it to the company.

If they have any sense, they'll sort him.

If they don't and he then goes and maims someone, there's a good chance they could end up liable for allowing him to continue to drive their vehicle.

There's every chance his van has a tracker in it.

Report it and send them a copy of your footage. If it was one of our vans I'd want to know.

Yes report the bloke I have done it a few times but sadly never had a camera to back up my claims.. Could have killed you then potentially racist too (unsure how he knew you was jewish?) sounds like a lovely bloke.

The video of the whole thing is going to the police today no question about that!

Anyway: Would you report this to the company as well? I want this guy to get caught but don’t want to go overkill on a petty revenge spree (however fun that might be 😉 )

WWSTWD?

I wouldn't report to the company unless for some reason you get nowhere with the police (I'd expect on your version of events they will treat quite seriously not so much for the bad overtake but the stop and argue (round here the road policing unit really don't like that) and then even if you were as guilty as the other they'll not like the religious aggravation.

Alerting the company just gives him a chance to get his story straight before the police turn up, so I'd let him incriminate himself first.

Absolutely report it to the company, regardless of their size. If they don't take action then possibly size comes into it if your thinking about posting it on social media.

Based in irlam?

No. Got a grudge against someone? 😉

Based quite a distance away from me unfortunately - I was buying sausages today anyway.

Whats the company called? Have you got a link to the video? Can it be tweeted to the company so we can all see?😉

I thumped the side of his van, partly instinctive “fending off” partly angry, yes I know I probably shouldn’t have.

I think what you meant to say was the van came so close I felt an instinct to fend it off as I was scared, and did so loudly to ensure the driver was alerted to my presence.

unsure how he knew you was jewish?

Yarmulke cycle helmet.

Dead giveaway

I'd report it to the company.

Just thought - the police will probably have to go through the company anyway to find out who he is.
Want to make sure he's dealt with but there's no point going for the company on social media.

Good points poly.

Phone the company - that's what I've done in the past. It's nice to hear an apology over the phone.
I wouldn't want someone to lose their job just for driving like a **** (there's millions of em out there), so police would be if the company didn't respond correctly.

(unsure how he knew you was jewish?)

That was my 1st thought as well .... maybe his man bits were hanging out of the bottom of his cycle shorts ... impressive if it was 🙂

Definitely report him to both ... he doesn't deserve to have a job!!

I thumped the side of his van, partly instinctive “fending off” partly angry, yes I know I probably shouldn’t have.

I think what you meant to say was the van came so close I felt an instinct to fend it off as I was scared, and did so loudly to ensure the driver was alerted to my presence.

The van's proximity caused me a momentary loss of composure.

Depends how incriminating your footage is but as someone else mentioned above, if you go to the company first then it just gives him a chance to weave a counter-story before the police look into it.

Police first, especially if you have;

“*ing Jewish *”

on film because they will take stuff like that very seriously.

Definitely another story to add to the "everyone commuting by bicycle needs a camera" pile.

Police and the company, it's only right to let them know you have reported to the police.

3.5 tonner (regular license)? get him sacked and let his job go to someone that is capable of driving without killing people.

Bigger license and you're likely hurting the company more than him, so they'd sweep it under the rug.

Police first, for the racist aspect.

Whats the company called? Have you got a link to the video? Can it be tweeted to the company so we can all see?😉

As tempting as it is to watch the offending er, offender, when I've uploaded a couple of dashcam clips to Cheshire Police the instructions say not to share it just in case it goes to court. Here's one that's over a year old now, so outside their instruction for your enjoyment.

I called a large development company when one of their 32 tonne 8 wheelers came within 30 cm of my 11yo son riding on a residential road. I got through to the transport manager and she looked up the truck's tracker whilst I was on the phone and gave me a wholehearted reassurance that it would be taken up with the driver. It is worth reporting.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a **** (there’s millions of em out there), so police would be if the company didn’t respond correctly.

Granted life for most is pretty stressful these days and who know what's going on in this persons life for them to react that way, but if the roads are safer with him not on it then he shouldn't be doing a driving job.

this is in danger of getting extremely hypothetical but at what point do you draw the line. does someone has to be killed before they lose their driving job? 🤷‍♂️

Let us know what the po-po have to say.

I wonder whether they might see the initial driving offence in a different light once they are aware of the hate speech aspect?

Did he do such a close pass because he thought you were Jewish?

"Jewish ****"

What the hell, we truly are doomed to learn nothing from history aren't we?

I was buying sausages today anyway.

Then you already know what needs to be done 😉

The racial aspect is a hate crime. If you have footage then that's evidence.

Go straight to the police.

He'll be dealt with accordingly.

If he could get punished for the driving/abuse, learn the error of his ways (wishful thinking) and keep his job then that would be the ideal outcome IMO. Could be he's an expert aircon mechanic or something, don't see why he should lose his job for something unrelated. Maybe get someone else to drive him around!

I wonder whether they might see the initial driving offence in a different light once they are aware of the hate speech aspect?

Did he do such a close pass because he thought you were Jewish?

No I don't think so. Not connected at all. Just an extra thing to throw in at the end. Maybe it wound him up more to see me when we stopped if he has a thing about Jews, who knows.

I’m a professional driver (coaches)
Please report it.
Driving in a decent, safe manner is really not that difficult.
As for bringing religion into it, WTF?
Completely Unacceptable.

No I don’t think so. Not connected at all. Just an extra thing to throw in at the end. Maybe it wound him up more to see me when we stopped if he has a thing about Jews, who knows.

I realised it was highly unlikley to be the case, but it's something they'll have to consider, and it should hopefully lead to some very awkward questions being asked of him.

Would it be appropriate to ask whether you are Jewish? If you are not, I'm not sure how the police would actually handle misdirected hate speech.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****

If their job is to drive and they were dangerous they need to find another job.

But more importantly, regardless of his poor standard of driving, i would be reporting him for threatening and racist language. If he loses his job just before Christmas, tough titty. He may learn to not be a xxxx in future.

I have to say I'm with tpbiker here. He's in charge of a potentially lethal weapon there if he so chooses. Add in the anti-Semitic element and I wouldn't lose too much sleep if he had to suffer the consequences.

Most of us have had utterly crap days over the last year but we don't go around behaving like that. There simply isn't any valid excuse.

Merak

The racial aspect is a hate crime. If you have footage then that’s evidence.
Go straight to the police.
He’ll be dealt with accordingly.

agree with this, definitely.

If their job is to drive and they were dangerous they need to find another job

Agree with this too. Dunno what I was going on about in my original post. I'm really not that nice normally.

Definitely report it to the employer.
I reported a close pass to a local haulage company and got a very quick and apologetic response, seemed like they really did care about it.
Don't know if the fella still had a job but at very least it'll be on his record.

If he could get punished for the driving/abuse, learn the error of his ways (wishful thinking) and keep his job then that would be the ideal outcome IMO. Could be he’s an expert aircon mechanic or something, don’t see why he should lose his job for something unrelated. Maybe get someone else to drive him around!

if he’s behind the wheel in a company vehicle then that’s the job as much as anything else he’s paid to do.

as an employer you can’t really turn a blind eye to someone being a danger to the public just because he’s quite good at other things.

He’s made the choice to behave in a way that compromises his job (and let’s face it compromises plenty of things - he’s willingly given you and the police the grounds for a criminal conviction)

He’s an adult, he’s made his own choices.

Yes, report to company after police.
About 2 weeks ago on A46 bypass around Lincoln two vans of transit size from same company chasing each other, weaving in and out of traffic, generally driving dangerously.
Got the registrations, called company and was put through to transport manager who listened but wasn't apologetic; I said I would prefer him to deal with this direct without me involving police; he thought call had ended but I could hear him as he swore about me to someone else.
Next day, I called their MD to tell him what had happened; made a formal complaint and left him in n o doubt that my next call would be to police.
Electrical contractors based in Leicester and Nottigham.

Sorry but report it to the Police only.

Never mind a cursory telling off from his boss, that's just a heads up and sharing it with any other parties/Social meeja might undermine any follow on action...

someone being a "bad driver" is one thing, but the ones that stop and get out for further interactions whether to hurl racial/religious abuse or get physical, deserve no quarter (IMO)…
Otherwise what's the point of recording the incident?

Send it straight to the Rozzers.

The anti-semitic stuff means you should take it straight to the cops IMO. Don't even bother with the firm.

Don't report it to the company until the police have decided what to do with it.

If the police decide to do nothing then I wouldn't even bother going to the company, I would just put it straight on Youtube and make sure the various anti-racism groups were made aware.

Don't see why this guys future employers shouldn't have a clear picture of who they are hiring.

I manage a team that includes about 8 van drivers. If one of them was behaving like that I would want to know about it.

Based on what you have said, the driving would probably be a serious warning followed up with some additional training. But the behaviour afterwards would probably be dismissal. I would have no issue with sacking someone for being aggressive and racist.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****

I would and I would expect to fire anyone driving one of our vans that badly. There's no place for inattentive half-wits in charge of 3 tonnes of vehicle. (Close pass - inattention stopping to argue and hurl racist abuse on camera - half-witted).

few years ago reported an LGV driver fir being an idiot, sales department answered the email,and said it would be passed on, so thought just ignored, a week later Health and safety manager from the company emailed, apologised, and stated driver had been taken off driving, was being retrained and had been disciplined, and all their drivers suddenly drove with consideration to other road users.

Topically this just popped up in my inbox from the HSE

t is estimated that one third of all road traffic collisions (RTCs) in Britain involve someone driving as part of their job......
......Although the risks associated with driving cannot be completely controlled, an employer has a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to manage these risks and do everything reasonably practicable to protect people from harm in the same way as they would in the workplace.

So while people are suggesting its somehow correct to inform the police but somehow unfair to notify their employer ... how is the employer supposed to manage their workforce safely if nobody tells them whats happening out there?

Was there a "How's my driving?" sticker on the back of the van? If so report to both police and company

I'm so sorry to read this, OP. Not a pleasant experience in any way and you're absolutely right to take this up with the police.

“*ing Jewish *”

This has upset me more than anything else. I sincerely hope that you get a resolution and the guy in question gets his anti-semitic dues.

Police first - makes it simple for the company to understand action is needed rather than mess you about and promise a "talking to".

Even if the company fire him, he'll jump into another company's van the next week. So another reason for Police.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****

Whereas I would really want him to lose his job and be prosecuted by the police too.
No excuses for that sort of a) dangerous b) threatening and c) racist behaviour.

If he was my member of staff I would suspend him immediately and investigate it as gross misconduct.

Was there a “How’s my driving?” sticker on the back of the van?

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a **** (there’s millions of em out there), so police would be if the company didn’t respond correctly.

I absolutely do want him to lose his job as a driver if that's how he treats other humans while doing it.

I absolutely do want him to lose his job ...

Oh ffs will you lot please read the rest of the ****ing thread.
A retracted statement quoted 3 times. Jeez

Definitely report it.  I have done it a few times with responses from no response to full investigation and report back with full apologies etc.  If nothing else it may make a difference to some other unfortunate and modify the gus behaviour, we would hope

Oh ffs will you lot please read the rest of the **** thread.
A retracted statement quoted 3 times. Jeez

I have read the thread, all of it.

That's still my opinion.

On my (mostly extremely enjoyable) ride on Monday, I was treated extremely patiently by many, drivers. So it is possible. Vast majority treated me acceptably and didn't make me fear for me safety. Couple of dozen treated me very poorly - so about par IME.

What has me riled, and drove me to comment, was the *three* HGVs including one artic that overtook me and then immediately (within 100m) turned left across my path into their sites.

They knew I was there, they didn't kill me to death, but they knew they were turning off a few seconds later. A few seconds later. THREE OF THEM, at different sites. Despite me doing all the right things re clothing, positioning, obeying traffic rules.

They chose to do that, and if they were a little wrong about their speed, or mine, or other drivers actions, or the low sun dazzled them or me, they risked killing me.

For a few seconds spent waiting safely behind me.

So yes, if I want to emphasise the fact that I think drivers who take needless risks with others' safety should Do Some Other Job, I will.

I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van - you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****

No? One of our logistics team drove like a dick last year; windscreen fogged up, no seatbelt, not showing trade-plates, and driving too fast, and because of the first item, he didn’t see another member of the team had stopped behind a parked van because of an oncoming articulated vehicle and drove into the back of her. He didn’t touch the brakes, (no airbag went off), wrote off three vehicles, and nearly killed our teammate in the stationary vehicle! He maintained he was driving below 30mph, the damage caused indicated closer to 50, and a third team driver following saw what happened, and confirmed he never used his brakes.
So, should he have kept his job for driving like a dick? I have photos of two of the wrecked vehicles, the third was the stationary contractors van that was hit, just for confirmation.

Sat at traffic lights at T junction at bottom of hill behind an SUV on red. Lights turn green:

SUV starts moving as a lorry comes from the right, downhill at full whack. SUV sees and stops just in time. I reported it straightaway to the company.

Driver relieved of his services the next day. Hopefully he won't work again in that industry. At least he'll think twice about jumping lights.

Sometimes its worth doing.

I would certainly be reporting it to both the police and company.

If it was "just" the close pass/nearly knocking you off, I would expect the company in question probably gets a few of those these days (if they have a reasonable sized fleet) so there is probably a process, either official or unofficial to deal with it. Probably involving a conversation, an official warning if appropriate, and some retraining.

However, getting out of a company van and threatening harm to a member of the public, AND using hate/racist/antisemetic language in the process is without any doubt at all gross misconduct, and my money would be on him getting sacked on the spot (especially if there was undisputable video evidence of the entire exchange).

I would be waiting to hear back from the police about what they intended to do about it - and probably wait until they had taken a statement from him before informing the company. Otherwise, as others have said, you allow him to get-his-story-straight before talking to the police.

When reporting it to the company, I would be sure to let them know that the incident has been reported to the police, and sent to several anti-hate organisations. This is effectively backing the company into a corner..... if they've got any sense they'll realize they have to sack him immediately - which is exactly what he deserves.

maurice
I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.

Yeah, nah. The fact that he was demonstrably so close that this was possible, let alone required to alert him to the OPs presence so that he didn't get crushed and killed, supports the OPs case rather than harms it.

Poly has it. Police only.

m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground

Presumably it's obvious in the video.

I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.

Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?

Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?

+1
Agreed

I have read the thread, all of it.

That’s still my opinion.

And it's also Dezb's opinion. You haven't actually read the rest of the thread have you? This bit in particular:

Agree with this too. Dunno what I was going on about in my original post. I’m really not that nice normally.

Blimey, someone understands English. Thank you! 😀

At my last company, transport took dash claims seriously, a couple of drivers lost their jobs- one as a result of footage from the dash cam in the cab.

Maybe think twice about Israel Start Up Nation replica kit now.

I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****

Dez has been kidnapped. We need to find where he’s being held!

+1 for footage to the police, find out what they wish to do before complaint to company

I would want him sacked. this is a person using his vehicle as a weapon

Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?

Yes I do ride in traffic, regularly.

I have never "angrily" hit a vehicle as the OP described, because I have never had time to get angry from a close pass while I was still in reach. If I have lashed out it has been instinctive. That's what concerns me with their description of thumping the van angrily. The title of the thread says "Road rage", who raged first?

There's a whole lot of jumping on the outrage bus here and strong opinions without a video. But let's not get the facts get in the way of a lynching....

Yeah, nah. The fact that he was demonstrably so close that this was possible, let alone required to alert him to the OPs presence so that he didn’t get crushed and killed, supports the OPs case rather than harms it.

Let's hope the video supports that.

Reported to the police yesterday via their online form. Lets see what happens.

Re. the thumping:
I think I banged twice, once when he squeezed past and again as we stopped. 2nd one anger/adrenaline and yes probably shouldn't have happened.

Just checked the video. Here's a still of when he comes into frame:
https://imgur.com/a/C0j4SCi
Note my positioning with the island & parked cars. I had not moved out to primary, there were parked cars behind me as well. I just stayed on the same line instead of moving in to the curb.

Just after that insanely close pass, he swerves left (!) at which point your hear a faint bang and I swerve sharply. This is me panicking & thumping the side, although if you didn't know better it seems like him hitting me slightly (he didn't).
We both stop and I bang again, you can hear me mutter "are you insane!" (not loud enough for him to hear) and him already gobbing off from inside.

Edit: Fixed the image (I hope)

without being awkward its a bit blurry to make much out

I once had a van driver swerve towards me on a cycle path cos I looked at him.
Literally, just looking to check if he'd seen me cos he appeared to be just about to cut me up.
Some people are just mental 😛

It's nuts. I was going fastish at that point (guess a bit under 20mph) and he comes flying past. There are cars stopped at the crossing a few meters past that point as the lights have only just turned green, so the whole pass was entirely pointless anyway.

without being awkward its a bit blurry to make much out

I know sorry. Can't show much more without showing the side of his van with logos.
Here's the place: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5081027,-2.2534331,3a,75y,211.5h,75.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIjLxCfrYIbr647HiLxgsZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Now imagine there's a line of cars parked just next to the yellow lines. Look right to see cars parked beyond the bus stop. I stayed roughly a little left of centre of the lane (IMO, the correct position in those circumstances and at that speed).

I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.

Van's don't actually have feelings you know. Squashy humans on bikes on the other hand do.

This is part of the problem cyclists face, people equate "you thumped my van" with "you nearly killed me with your driving". They aren't remotely equal. No cyclist has ever hurt a van driver by banging on their van.

Drivers worry about being inconvenienced by cyclists. Cyclists worry about being killed by drivers

This is part of the problem cyclists face, people equate “you thumped my van” with “you nearly killed me with your driving”. They aren’t remotely equal. No cyclist has ever hurt a van driver by banging on their van.

Being a cyclist does not makes us above the law because we are more vulnerable. Thumping a stationary vehicle will always elicit a response. If you and others cannot see that this may not go down all that well with the police then it is clearly a waste of my time trying to explain it to you.

Being a cyclist does not makes us above the law because we are more vulnerable. Thumping a stationary vehicle will always elicit a response. If you and others cannot see that this may not go down all that well with the police then it is clearly a waste of my time trying to explain it to you.

Exactly how strong are you? Even when I was in my peak condition and training in martial arts 5 times a week I very much doubt I would even be able to make a mark on a moving vehicle.

I could probably dent a car if I stopped, got off the bike, set my stance, and punched the centre of a panel. Fairly good chance I'd bust my hand though.

So, if we can assume we are not damaging property, exactly what law are we breaking by banging on a car?