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Based on what binners and others are saying Rishi Sunak should have put the money directly into peoples pockets.
Can we be trusted not to spend it on Amazon though?
Oh come on, JSA is next to nothing – it’s an absolute pittance of a wage.
Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you are paid through PAYE then you are not self employed.
Not true. We did a whole other thread on this. Can we move it over there, please?
Course they’ll have a high throughput
No, they won’t. Chain ‘restaurants’ that are really just sit down fast food outlets will have high ‘throughput’, this ‘stimulus’ has them in mind, not the kind of business I described.
Self-employed and contractor
A person is self-employed if they run their business for themselves and take responsibility for its success or failure.
Self-employed workers aren’t paid through PAYE, and they don’t have the employment rights and responsibilities of employees.
Someone can be both employed and self-employed at the same time, for example if they work for an employer during the day and run their own business in the evenings.
From HMRC
Seems to me your either employed, self employed or unemployed.
Sorry 3 pages in and nobody has mentioned the hilarious strap line the food vouchers have been given? c'mon people!
Can't help think 'dishy Rishi' did it on purpose in a hope that it (dare I say it) goes viral.
they need to know that the virus has been contained, that people aren’t dying, and that any new case (and their contacts) are being quickly isolated to keep things that way.
I'm sure even you can clearly see that there are lots of cases, and new lockdowns, springing up all over the world in countries that were ahead of the UK.
So it's not contained and it's not going to be contained anywhere for a very long time.
You can bleat on about the government approach all you like but it really isn't that simple.
50% of food costing £20 per head, 5% VAT on hospital? Excellent sign me up looking forward to getting out and repaying the industry that was so kind to us during this.
Seems to me your either employed, self employed or unemployed.
You are indeed Rishi Sunak and I claim my email telling me I’m entitled to **** all
HMRC have now seen fit to classify us as all 3 at the same time, though obviously we are all now only one... the latter, having never apparently been either of the former.
I’m sure we’ll all be arranging our future tax affairs to reflect our new status
Just give the money to the traders
That won't have the same benefit to the wider economy and does no more than the furlough scheme.
Spending money in a restaurant or hotel benefits the whole supply chain above them. A lot of their wholesalers and producers are also suffering a big slump.
Plus unless they are trading nobody will actually be working and earning money, so will be still furloughed. That saving will offset the cost of the VAT cut.
The VAT cut will help a lot of businesses, agreed that it might not make much difference to small ones. Whether they pass on the saving to the customer is up to them, I'd have thought that the majority won't and rightly so if they are struggling.
The £10 voucher thing sounds bonkers and an admin nightmare, but might help encourage more spending on quiet days, which can make all the difference.
There surely is more help to come for other sectors.
And it is utterly crap that self employed and freelancers have still got no help.
Seems to me your either employed, self employed or unemployed.
There are many, many people who have not qualified for either furlough or the self employed support schemes. All over the national news, as well as on here. 30 mins ago one of my mates describing a Sound Eng friend of his who's had to move out of his own house as he cannot afford to live there. Please stop insisting that the govt schemes support all - they don't and insisting that they do is offensive to people who are really suffering due to the crisis.
The VAT cut will help a lot of businesses, agreed that it might not make much difference to small ones. Whether they pass on the saving to the customer is up to them, I’d have thought that the majority won’t and rightly so if they are struggling.
I'm not convinced that price is keeping people away from the hospitality sector
I suppose the theory is this will nudge people into booking hotels & restaurants and I think it will for a few, but will only have a real impact if there are no local flare ups, hospital shut downs, it's fear that's keeping people away & rightly so until the government gets a grip
Please stop insisting that the govt schemes support all – they don’t and insisting that they do is offensive to people who are really suffering due to the crisis.
Why does your friend not qualify for Universal Credit?
bearnecessities
Oh come on, JSA is next to nothing – it’s an absolute pittance of a wage.Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.
If you are calling universal credit a livable wage, it's you that hasn't a clue what you are talking about.
Seems to me your either employed, self employed or unemployed.
In your mind, maybe, but the government are blurring the boundaries to exclude 3 million people from both the employee furlough and self-employed schemes
Maybe you should have a read and correct your obvious ignorance on the subject
It was (pointlessly) debated In Parliament yesterday, then ignored today. There are 3 million of us who still apparently don’t exist, despite our tax contributions.
What makes it all the more galling is that self-employed people who've been gaming the system have been looked after. Those that have played it straight have been ignored.
But then I suppose that’s par for the course with this lot
Why does your friend not qualify for Universal Credit?
Wasn't referring to UC, was referring to the specific schemes designed to support people in their current position through the pandemic. But to answer your specific question, he's a friend of a friend, so no idea if he's applied for UC. Would UC pay for, say, a £1000 monthly rental then? IME, the rental component screws down pretty tight above min wage for a single parent family. No idea how it works if you're unemployed.
If you are calling universal credit a livable wage, it’s you that hasn’t a clue what you are talking about.
At least I'm trying to help.
I don't think the VAT cut is meant to stimulate demand. Demand is going to be huge because we've all been locked in for months. I think it's to keep the wolves from the doors of the hospitality sector. Basically it means the government will take less of their takings.
You can bleat on about the government approach all you like but it really isn’t that simple.
The government locked down late, failed to use that lock down to get the virus under control, and then relaxed lock down without putting the measures in place needed to do so safely. This will screw thousands of pubs, restaurants, hotels, B&Bs, cafes, gig venues, theatres. The way to save them is for the government to act to contain the virus and isolate new cases, and let all venues open and do business more normally. Call it ‘bleating’ if you want, but it is what is required, and is happening in other countries.
I'm sure there is a reason, but why cant the freelance guys furlough themselves in the same way a normal paye employee could be?
I think the meal thing is good. On top of it, remember amex is still giving £5 back on a £10 spend at small merchants (up to 10 times, funded by amex, till end of august) so that's £20 of food for a fiver 🙂
They’re putting sticking plasters over what could have been easily avoided if out numbskull of a PM did his job instead of going on holiday, then going to the Rugby
Basically it means the government will take less of their takings.
That’s the idea, but it benefits those less effected by social distancing measures (large sites, especially those with large terraces etc) and offers little to no help to business on small sites without the room to serve enough covers to bring much takings in. If you have a way of getting the money in, you’ll keep more of your takings… whereas if you cannot, hard cheese. Those most effected by the social distancing measures are the ones who receive the least help.
I’m sure there is a reason, but why cant the freelance guys furlough themselves in the same way a normal paye employee could be?
If there’s a reason, we haven’t found it yet. Why not have a delve into The Kafkaesque rules and see if you can enlighten us
The only one I can think of is that as this the prevailing employment model in the creative industries and we’re pretty much all labour or Lib Dem voting remainers, well.... you know... the rules have made sure that the prevailing self-employed model of blokes who drive white vans and read the Sun have been amply catered for
bearnecessities
At least I’m trying to help.
That's what it seems like to you.
The other perspective to that if you read back is you're just promoting gov propaganda that everyone has been covered. Which is nonsense, even if they've claimed UC or not. Which I have btw, but the 1400 quid I've had off them since march, is quite the shedload less than the potential 5/6/7k I've lost on top of that from lost net earnings)
So you can perhaps understand why the you can claim UC(some can't) line is more than a little grating..
The government shafted us, pure and simple. (ps my situation isn't the same as binners btw, I don't pay via PAYE schemes, but apparently being self-employed for 17/18 months, qualifies you for heehaw.)
I'd potentially be out in the street if I wasn't for the little savings i had, and all I had to rely on was 1400 quid over 3 months.
Also notice they are doubling the numbers of "work coaches" that sounds nice, in reality, people will be getting fired off UC left right and centre in short order. The announcement of the minimum floor income being reapplied won't be far away I'd imagine.
I wonder how easy it'll be for the little restaurants and cafes to claim back their (up to £10 50% pp) discount takings from the government? and when it will be paid.. immediately after or months or years after, when you've given up hope after ringing up the enquiry line several times a month...
Just give the money to the traders
Not a terrible idea is it? Have we got any of the £250billion we borrowed left over? I'm sure they could claw us a bit back by shorting airlines or something... For a nominal fee.
All I saw today was a bit of targeted stimulus to help weatherspoons and Maccy D's. Just about every other business is on their own so far as the Torries are concerned.
And I'm sure it suits their true core supporters. Without better support/relief more, otherwise viable, businesses will go to the wall, and then Boris's chums (with money) can swoop in and acquire assets, order books and trading names for rock bottom prices...
Otherwise I think Little Rishi was told to placate the great unwashed with a cheap pie to go with their covid contaminated pint, and they'll soon be back on side. Thing is given our current national temperament I'm sort of 50/50 on whether or not it might actually work or not...
All I saw today was a bit of targeted stimulus to help weatherspoons and Maccy D’s. Just about every other business is on their own so far as the Torries are concerned.
The No stamp duty means that estate agents in London and the South East are also popping the Tatinger corks tonight
The No stamp duty means that estate agents in London and the South East are also popping the Tatinger corks tonight
Why are you persisting with the geographical envy?
jekyll - do keep up; payments made within 5 working days.
All I saw today was a bit of targeted stimulus to help weatherspoons and Maccy D’s.
£80 becomes £40 for a family of four. There's plenty of decent places that you get a very decent meal at £80 thats not on your limited list.
Why are you persisting with the geographical envy?
Are you seriously suggesting that there is any other intention to this than propping up the over-inflated property prices in the South East?
Yeah, right...
Meanwhile, back in the real world...
We’ll see how many one bedroom apartments get sold in central London for £499,999 as opposed to 2 bedroom terraced houses in Burnley, shall we?
Given the economic devastation that awaits the same areas laid waste too in the 80’s I doubt buying a new house is at the top of many people’s priority list, right now.
If you’re a landlord with capital looking to increase a property portfolio, however... ker-****ing-ching
I don’t believe for a minute you’re so naive about who’s interests the Tory party serves
Plenty of average places you can get an average meal for £20; as for decent places and a decent meal - no, not really.
£80 becomes £40 for a family of four. There’s plenty of decent places that you get a very decent meal at £80 thats not on your limited list.
I'm still not keen to take my kids to a Beefeater or a Harvester right now irrespective of the food bill...
Come on in....
Covid and chips? Special government discount today....
Is tim martin turning into a werewolf?
If your economy depends on getting people buying houses and spending their pandemic savings in pubs and restaurants maybe its time for a bit of re-industrialisation.
uponthedowns - various comments ^^^ and elsewhere about the absence of an industrial/economic strategy.
You're adding your voice but the gov aren't listening.
The more I think about Rishi's meal deal the less convincing it becomes - not that it was particularly convincing when it was announced.
It's time limited to August only.
Planned foreign hols have, largely, been cancelled so an assumption that people will spend in UK to compensate; flawed assumption, I think.
Many people have concerns about employment prospects so discretionary spending is much reduced.
For those who considered dining out...Thurs - Sat evenings and Sunday lunch are most popular times so a meal deal Mon - Wed will be either unattractive or move spending from end of week to beginning.
The likely net benefit of this is small.
To summarise, great PR but no substantive benefit.
As for the VAT reduction, that will be hoovered up by service providers and not passed through to consumers.
Sunak, carefully, didn't say whether or not he expected the (temporary) VAT reduction to be fully passed through to customers; as a customer I would expect that benefit to come to me fully.
If I was a service provider I would attempt to keep as much as possible.
Customer and service provider interests are not aligned.
Still waiting for an economic/industrial/manufacturing/technological strategy statement.
I think - as a card carrying labour member - that Sunak is talented and innovative but constrained by johnson, cummings and others; given a free hand, he could be very interesting.
Annaliese Dodds needs to be on top of her game.
Plenty of average places you can get an average meal for £20; as for decent places and a decent meal – no, not really.
You need to get out more, I can think of 5 places in Birmingham that £20 would get me a cracking 2 courses mid week for that.
I think what’s also being ignored about this is that it’s a bit of a confidence builder. Get a few people out who were unsure on being, let them eat mid week and let them feel that it’s OK to eat and drink out again so they’ll go and spend more money on the weekend too.
I know I'm swimming in a shark pool here by continuing to post, but very quickly:
The other perspective to that if you read back is you’re just promoting gov propaganda that everyone has been covered.
I've never posted anything with a mildly party political party leaning here, or anywhere else, ever. All I have tried to do is correct (only for the benefit of those that read such things as this and don't know otherwise) the myth that there is a group that have been left penniless and without anything.
I know that a lot of people, including yourself, are very pissed off at missing out on the SEISS but please don't let that cloud the really simple point that I was trying to make that there is support out there for everyone - albeit some are obviously more generous than others.
Randomly throwing JSA into a conversation, £73 a week, and stuff like that just confuses things and will (believe it or not) put people off applying - that are actually entitled.
And to quote myself (I read back to see if anything I said could be seen pedalling propaganda)
There’s inequality in certain groups, of course there is, you try and devise a policy for a global pandemic that encompasses every scenario.
That was probably always likely to get me into trouble and shouldn't have said it. It could be seen as uncaring, and I'm really not that - but it doesn't read back well after seeing the anger on here. Sorry if that upset anyone.
As for the VAT reduction, that will be hoovered up by service providers and not passed through to consumers.
As it should be, he is trying to protect jobs, not save you a few pounds down the pub, Frank.
Are you seriously suggesting that there is any other intention to this than propping up the over-inflated property prices in the South East?
You forgot the opportunity for the wealthy to also now buy second homes, student home for daughter Portitia, or expand thier buy to let portfolio.
The property tax holiday does seem a total indulgence for the already wealthy, overly benefiting the South East (again).
The random food and VAT reductions again assume a certain level of spare cash to eat out or holiday. While I get it may prop up some jobs on leisure, it's still a very limited benefit.
It's depressing that this is the best our government can come up with, and even more depressing that the Tories continue down the path of supporting thier own above all else.
Anyway, look on the bright side, it's Brexshit next.
I'm sure the truly wealthy would have been buying houses regardless of stamp duty.
Would UC pay for, say, a £1000 monthly rental then? IME, the rental component screws down pretty tight above min wage for a single parent family. No idea how it works if you’re unemployed.
Sorry, I missed this bit.
Yes it would pay that if supported by the Local Housing Allowance rates for where they live and of course is dependent on individual household circumstances - which is why it's so complicated and I try (in vain, every time) to correct statements like "£73 a week".
constrained by johnson, cummings and others
Well he's also constrained by having to deliver an Autumn budget with a backing track of mass unemployment, a potential second wave on top of the usual NHS winter stress and then Brexit swooping in to cut off whatever legs the economy has left.
He seems to like gestures though, a strapline and his signature on the promotional materials.
I m looking to buy a uk property, stamp duty holiday for me is just a distraction though, it seems to be the last thing the govt can throw at supporting the market. I m quite happy to wait, the real economy will appear next year.
If the govt really wanted to help first time buyers they could hike stamp duty progressively on second, third, fourth homes. E.g., 3% on second, 5% on third, 10% on fourth.
My long term tenant in se is a higher rate tax payer and still can't buy a 1 bed flat.
I’m still not keen to take my kids to a Beefeater or a Harvester right now irrespective of the food bill…
Likewise, I’m not disputing that. As a lot of other people are pointing out, this isn’t limited to a McDonalds and Nando’s.
Binners, whilst is don’t doubt the stamp duty issue can and will be taken advantage off, you seem to be emotionally convinced that no-one outside of the South East borders could take advantage of it your point is weakened by your constant angry whinging.
That’s not true, and neither is your fixation on £500k. Plenty of people who might consider a £126k house now have less to pay, it may help them. Less than £125k was free of stamp duty any way. If you want to balance the fairness scales, have a look around the SE and London and you’ll note quite obviousLy that there’s very few if any little who wouldn’t have been able to avoid Stamp duty anyway. Think that’s fair do you, that a couple living in the SE would be forced to pay SD just because they happen to live there?
From talking to the pubs in my area that I do printing for most are expecting to be shutting their doors by Christmas. The scenes of hordes of people flocking to the pub on TV aren't being replicated in the real world (ie small towns and villages) - they just can't survive on social-distanced footfall.
On the VAT debate I thought some ballpark figures might put things into context. It's an example, fairly realistic in my experience although every business is different, feel free to tweak.
Smallish restaurant
£30/head
(£20 food, £10 booze)
'normal' trading their finances might look something like this
Wed 30 covers
Thur 30 covers
Fri 60 covers
Sat 60 covers
Sun 60 covers
Sales
£7200 per week incl vat
£6000 per week excl vat
Rule of thumb costs
30% ingredients = £1800
30% staff costs = £1800
20% overheads = £1200
Profit = £1200 per week
During lockdown
Business losing money every week due to overheads (possibly not the full £1200 but most of it due to rent)
So during the lockdown has lost perhaps £15-20k, but probably qualified for £10k or £25k grant back in March
Staff furloughed costing GOV 80% x £1800 = £1440 per week
Post lockdown
Half the covers due to social distancing and reduced demand
VAT on food reduced to 5% (saving not passed to customer)
2/3 staff costs (the other 1/3 staff are still furloughed)
Same overheads
Sales
£3600 incl vat
£3286 excl vat
Costs
Ingredients £900
Staff costs £1200
Overheads £1200
Profit = -£14
From government perspective
Remaining staff still furloughed costing GOV £480 per week
(So reduced by £960 per week compared to staying shut)
GOV receiving £314 per week in VAT (would be £600 without the VAT cut)
So in this example...
Business is just about covering costs, and better off than when it was shut, so the incentive to reopen is there, but won't survive without guaranteed footfall and trade picking up in the longer term.
Suppliers and staff are all better off.
Government is getting £286 less in VAT, but is better off by £1274 per week overall compared to when the business was shut. So while the VAT cut sounds generous and expensive for the taxpayer, the furlough scheme is far more costly, so by getting businesses trading and people back into work everyone is better off.
The idea that businesses are profiteering by keeping the VAT saving isn't true in this case since there is no profit, and might still fail.
Likewise, I’m not disputing that. As a lot of other people are pointing out, this isn’t limited to a McDonalds and Nando’s.
Thankyou for putting me straight, I'd not realised, I now fully endorse the government's "economic strategy".*
(*I can't help thinking there is a real case for a new button to just label sarcasm for the overly litteral thinkers on here).
That restaurant scheme is ripe for fraud.
The property tax holiday does seem a total indulgence for the already wealthy, overly benefiting the South East (again).
Matt, how do you account for this statement? Yes, the SE benefits from it, as does the whole country, but how does it over benefit from it. Same rules apply nationwide- in fact I'd argue that other areas are over benefitting from it, a 10k saving on a house in the North is a higher proportion of annual local income than it is in the SE. And the 'already wealthy'. WTF does that even mean?
IMO, the stamp duty change has been implemented to benefit developers, not individuals, in the short term, but hopefully it'll stay in place- longer it stays, the more benefit from it. Doesn't solve the underlying problem of inflated house prices, though.
they just can’t survive on social-distanced footfall
This. Everything announced yesterday screws over small pubs, bars and restaurants, and funnels what help there is to the large chains. That might be good politics (when chains shut there is a national exposure to the number of jobs lost) but it is not helping the businesses that need help most, or the people who work for them.
the stamp duty change has been implemented to benefit developers
Yup, it is help for sellers of multiple properties, but again, politically wise, because people genuinely think it will help them climb the property ladder. Unless you’re already very wealthy, it will not.
Thankyou for putting me straight, I’d not realised, I now fully endorse the government’s “economic strategy”.*
(*I can’t help thinking there is a real case for a new button to just label sarcasm for the overly litteral thinkers on here).
I really don't get that. There's no argumentment here and I'm not asking you to, nor do I endorse the strategy necessarily. I'm just raising the point, there's people in here getting ansi about the fact this is discount limited at an amount to shove people toward a fast food outlet, whereas thats simply doesn't have to be true.
None of this takes away from the fact that in the next 12 months the whole county is about to be asked to eat a shit sandwich, whether thats higher tax, increased costs, unemployment or contracting a potentially fatal disease. For me I'm just battening down the hatches and being grateful for a beer and a pizza on Saturday night, the rest is mostly beyond may control, so no use for me to get to Level Binners on the Rage Scale, as I'm not helping myself or my family. When the time comes to vote we'll have seen how/if this government has helped the little people and can make our decision at the polls.
I haven't read all of the posts but I do understand what the discount is meant to achieve although I don't get the concept of only offering the discount Mon-Wed as most restaurants already *DID* offer such discounts to get people through the doors and help cover their fixed costs. All that will happen now is that they will stop all their own offers - I wonder what will happen to people that have TasteCards? Will they get their normal discount AND the Government subsidy on top?
Personally I think that if they extended it to every single day it would be more successful – there will still be half-empty restaurants at the weekends anyway I reckon and it would be better to encourage more people to eat out more often and get people back into their old habits of socialising (not that I'll be eating out anytime soon – even if the cost was 100% subsidised I wouldn't do it as I don't like the idea of eating in a restaurant right now).
And the ‘already wealthy‘. WTF does that even mean?
If you get a deposit together to buy a house, you're wealthier than many. 30% of UK families already live below the poverty line - compared to them, house buyers are wealthy.
If you can afford a house that is more than 3x your salary, you're wealthier than many. The average house to earnings ratio is 8x. The property tax holiday up to a £500k favours those who already own, who own high income to house value and encourages a rise of prices.
The SE is a very expensive housing area - and so the 'savings' are greater there than elsewhere. How many houses in SE were under the existing lower limit compared with North East? As a lower price purchase I wouldn't pay property tax anyway, so my 'gain' as low income, low house price is less than the high income, high house price. We've made the wealthier more wealthy in this policy.
Same rules apply nationwide- in fact I’d argue that other areas are over benefitting from it, a 10k saving on a house in the North is a higher proportion of annual local income than it is in the SE.
Average house price SE England is £374k
Average house price NW England is £184k
3x as many house sales on SE.
So large volume of savings and higher value of savings.
The property tax holiday up to a £500k favours those who already own, who own high income to house value and encourages a rise of prices.
it encourages people with expensive houses to move house, granted, but given how housing chains work, that in turn benefits folks who have less money who are looking to buy their first house, as it gets the housing market going.
So large volume of savings and higher value of savings.
aren't there simply more people there too? What would you suggest they do for people who aren't currently paying stamp duty? give them cash just for buying a house?
The current tax changes are not aimed at driving equality. They are aimed at trying to stop the economy from collapsing post-covid. Naturally this will have a bigger impact on those who have more money to spend
The current tax changes are not aimed at driving equality. They are aimed at trying to stop the economy from collapsing post-covid
You're right, a good point.
I can't but help feel that the cost is (again) an increase of inequality.
I’ve never posted anything with a mildly party political party leaning here,
there is support out there for everyone –
away and bile yer heid. That's political right there...And clear bullshit.
Say I had no savings, how does 1400 over 3 months constitute support? It doesn't even cover my rent...
tell me, how would you live on that for 3 months? I'd like to hear how?
Ffs. Those of you quoting "higher savings in the SE" read MOABs post again.
Yes, i might "save" 10k rather than 5k on SD but my SE house costs me 200k more and the interest alone over 25yrs probably wipes that saving away. Also take into account as I said before, those targeting London in this argument conveniently forget the higher cost of living.
Tdlr its not the huge geographical privilege some people are trying to make out.
Personally I think that if they extended it to every single day it would be more successful
It'll never be successful because this isn't a real attempt at helping stuggling businesses. It's tokenism of the highest order so that the tories can say they provided support when in reality they didn't. What was required was a recognition of the scale of the economic meltdown and a massive economy-wide stimulus package which abandons conventional economics in order to avoid a depression and/or wholesale economic collapse. Instead we got discount vouchers and a vat cut.
It’ll never be successful because this isn’t a real attempt at helping stuggling businesses.
I tend to agree - I didn't say it WOULD be successful, I just think it would be MORE successful than trying to get people to go out on the nights that already always were quieter and discounted anyway. I honestly don't think that a single restaurant customer will be significantly better off than they would have been before had they used available promotions.
Regionalism and choice of eateries aside, are any of you seeing evidence that these measures are going over well with the public?
This is obviously a bit of an echo chamber, are we seeing evidence that the masses like the idea of a half price Nando’s (other restaurants are available) and not paying stamp duty (wherever they buy)?
Yes I am currently selling my house and buying one, the stamp duty will now pay for my solicitor fees.
I will also be eating out
are any of you seeing evidence that these measures are going over well with the public
I see little evidence that they are not. People are easily played.
Anyway, if you are forced to shut because of the virus (as many establishments have been here, never mind everything in Leicester) and you don’t have outlets in other parts of the country like the big brands, how does a VAT cut and a bribe for early week meals help you one jot? How is this gracious chancellor acting to help them?
And we haven’t gone anywhere near the ‘back of a fag packet’ £1000 hand out for keeping (some) staff on yet… probably the best example of Sunak having a good grasp of the political optics, and piss poor handle on what is actually needed over the next year to keep people in employment.
probably not the headline sunak wanted today & underlines that nandos vouchers are not enough
John Lewis and Boots to cut 5,300 jobs and shut shops
Maybe basing our economy on eating out, drinking, cheap fashion and living a Bourgeoise party lifestyle was a bad move in the first place? As a country we might be paying the price for that? Maybe we all need to grow up and actually produce something in the UK?
I see little evidence that they are not. People are easily played.
Yup. The bar is very low due to people being used to the government doing absolutely nothing. Instead of looking to France and Germany and asking 'why aren't they doing that here?', they look to the US and say 'thank god our government isn't as bad as them'. Tragically this won't hit home and public opinion won't change until it's too late and millions have lost their jobs. The UK is infected with a reactionary mindset. Instead of planning ahead and preventing crises, we do nothing out of blind hubris and ignorance, and then instigate panic measures when it all goes tits up. We get what we deserve.
public opinion won’t change until it’s too late and millions have lost their jobs
It’ll still be everyone else’s fault… teachers, nurses, care home staff, shop staff, pub staff, chefs, civil servants, opposition MPs, immigrants, judges, actors, footballers, the Scottish, the Irish, the unemployed themselves… everyone but those in charge. If they ever get back to cliched attacks on single mothers, you know we’ve got to the point where they just want to prove they can claim anything and get away with anything. They’ll probably save that one for 2024.
dougiedogg - the VAT reduction should be passed through to customers to drive footfall; service providers retaining the benefit, if they have too few customers, will do nothing to retain jobs.
lunge - my decades of dining out, both at my own cost and my employers' when working away, informed my post about average meals in average places.
You have a great imagination Kelvin
All the groups I listed will cop the blame from this government over this five year period. You can tick them off as you go along if you like. I’ve already ticked of this year’s scapegoat… teachers… all the others will happen as sure as night follows day. The government will do everything to shift the blame, you don’t need an imagination to see it happening right now.
to drive footfall
And those that can’t afford to operate at their new temporary max capacity? Or can’t or aren’t allowed to open at all? How are they helped? They need the virus under control, not bribes for customers to go to their competitors with more space and faster service.
Great idea and I hope it helps get people spending again.
Off course, on this forum it's nothing a but Tory nose rubbing and an insulting waste of time that will no doubt only benefit rich Tory voters with 3 homes and private caterers.
Great idea and I hope it helps get people spending again.
So you think we can avoid a depression/economic collapse by eating out more? See my comment above, you appear to be a classic example of what I was talking about.
its clearly led by a total lack of knowledge of the real situation with wealth in this country, It will clerly benefit the middle classes and the rich more than those who are poor. I don't thinnk its malicious tho - just ignorance and ideology
the sad thing is poor people spend a higher % of their money on stuff like food and clothes and power nd spend locally rather than going on holidays or tying the money up in bricks and motar- so giving all the money to the poor rather than the middle classes would have a far greater benefit to the economy. Double benefits, do nowt else would be much better
Great idea and I hope it helps get people spending again.
Off course, on this forum it’s nothing a but Tory nose rubbing and an insulting waste of time that will no doubt only benefit rich Tory voters with 3 homes and private caterers.
Yes, I think people forget its not the Torys putting people out of work, it's Covid 19 and the consequence of trying to mitigate it.
Double benefits, do nowt else would be much better
Yes, the rest of what you wrote, meh.
I think people forget its not the Torys putting people out of work, it’s Covid 19 and the consequence of trying to mitigate it.
Weird then that France and Germany are managing to protect jobs and mitigate the virus. I wonder what they know that our government doesn't? You seem to be suggesting that the government has no responsibility for or role in protecting people's livelihoods. Is that what you really think? Or is it that you just don't think it's possible, even though other governments are proving that it is? Like I said, we get the government we deserve.
A quick google shows our unemployment rate to be 3.9%
France at 8.2-8.6%
Germany at 5.2%
Whats your point?
You think France and Germany are keeping people in jobs better than the UK?
lol.
And no it won't save the economy but it's better than nothing and is a great message to people to get out and about and get back to a normal life as much as is possible.
Because you are comparing apples to oranges thats why.
Real UK unemployment is at least double that - and heading for 10 - 15 % even using the UK style e count.