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Yes riots and not one person went home with a new TV, shocking.
I dont think there are any electrical outlets left in Bristol city Centre
Maybe they were genuinely there to protest rather than loot? Ethical rioting?
Sadly doesn't help the cause of the original protest, by causing the kind of chaos the act supposedly aims to stop.
All failing governments need an enemy, external (Argentina, China) or internal (Bristol, Liverpool, Clapham). The press whip up a moral panic and the police get a rise for doing a cracking job.
I have a feeling as th weather improves pent up energy will be released in this way more and more
The press whip up a moral panic and the police get a rise for doing a cracking job.
So they're supposed to ignore the images of people setting vans alight, attacking a police station, pelting it with rocks and smashing glass and causing injury to police officers?
Yep..its all a government conspiracy!!! You believe that if you want.
Just a classic case of a peaceful protest being hijacked by a small minority of highly politically motivated anti-democratic groups. Just like the issues around the environment, Black Lives Matter, and more recently womens safety. Not exactly new is it, these tactics are as old as democracy itself.
Just a classic case of a peaceful protest being hijacked by a small minority of highly politically motivated anti-democratic groups
Enough about the police, what about the protestors?
Just a classic case of a peaceful protest being hijacked by a small minority of highly politically motivated anti-democratic groups.
Which groups are these?
Why are they against democracy?
Who mentioned conspiracy? Demos being hijacked sounds like a conspiracy.
There is a long history of the use of agent provocateurs by security services. Eg
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/10/g20-policing-agent-provacateurs
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/02/history-united-states-government-infiltration-protests/
Why are they against democracy?
Maybe anti the kind of limited democracy we have at the moment. It doesn't seem to be working very well at the moment. I'd say I am broadly anti it too. I haven't set fire to a police van but voting against it for the last 30 years hasn't done much I have to admit
On the BBC this morning there was film if a guy putting lit cardboard under a police van full of officers. Unlikely to have done much damage as the van was slowly reversing as he did it but that was attempted murder surely?
Agree with most of the recent posters above. Especially this:
Enough about the police, what about the protestors?
This
the kind of limited democracy we have at the moment. It doesn’t seem to be working very well at the moment. I’d say I am broadly anti it too.
I'm assuming those critical of the Police last night are content to let crowds smash up vehicles and attack buildings?
It's easy to criticise the actions of the Police in these situations, and they are often wrong, but I don't see many of the critics offering solutions. We expect an under resourced group of officers to deal with much larger groups of protestors, then criticise them for being too heavy handed or not being firm enough.
I don't sense this was a case of police officers inciting violence. On this occasion the police response seemed pretty muted and calm actually. The number of people actively engaged in violence seemed quite small. I guess it could have escalated further if the response had been too heavy handed.
I am very much against the current government and what it is trying to do, but I don't believe this violence will achieve much.
"Enough about the police, what about the protestors?"
Ha ha! That made me laugh.
I've very little sympathy for the police; if they allow themselves to be used as a political tool for a government, then the whole notion of 'policing by consent' collapses, as the police are duty bound to remain apolitical. The Clapham vigil debacle was just one example of how the police choose to be heavy handed when faced with little/no resistance. They weren't so heavy handed when crowds of (mainly male) football fans gathered in Glasgow. Refusing to attend incidents where a woman was sexually assaulted on the night of the Clapham vigil, and where a woman reported a man performing a sex act in public, yet having sufficient resources to provide protection to rich people, embassies etc, just shows how the police aren't doing their job of adequately protecting society.
Why Bristol though? Never really had it down as a hot bed of subversion...
Yes riots and not one person went home with a new TV, shocking.
Rioting under covid restrictions, where all retail has moved online, involves ordering a big telly and some new trainers online, on credit, then not paying for them. If they try to pursue you for payment then simply send them a photo of a petrol bomb
Sticking it to the man, yeah?
I’m assuming those critical of the Police last night are content to let crowds smash up vehicles and attack buildings?
Why are people so horrified when inanimate objects get smashed up but couldn't care less when your rights are being steam rollered by a right wing government?
One is easier to take pictures of I'll give you that.
Why are people so horrified when inanimate objects get smashed up but couldn’t care less when your rights are being steam rollered by a right wing government with the full support of the leader of the Labour Party ?
Fixed that for you.
"Why Bristol though? Never really had it down as a hot bed of subversion…"
You need to read up on the history of Bristol.
if they allow themselves to be used as a political tool for a government, then the whole notion of ‘policing by consent’ collapses, as the police are duty bound to remain apolitical.
Bit tricky to be apolitical when they are under direct control from the Home Office who agress their funding, objectives and can pick and choose their Chief Constables etc.
Why Bristol though? Never really had it down as a hot bed of subvision…
Been like it for years, hotbed of left wing/alternative lifestyle/anarchist and all things related. Makes it a great place culturally (raves, festivals, green thinking) but brings problems of homelessness, drugs, riots...
Why Bristol though? Never really had it down as a hot bed of subvision…
I mentioned it on another thread but this is our ninth riot in only 300 years. We're on a roll
Actually I think its politically quite anti the current government. Very strong labour vote, significant remain vote, high Green vote, strong sense of liberal socialism. Not much of a voice in the traditional democratic process so people are finding their own way to speak out. The statue toppling that happened here was great and was probably a trigger for the new law that this was a protest against
Why are people so horrified when inanimate objects get smashed up but couldn’t care less when your rights are being steam rollered by a right wing government with the full support of the leader of the Labour Party ?
Fixed that for you.
Starmer is a Tory plant obviously. I thought that went without saying.
Bit tricky to be apolitical when they are under direct control from the Home Office who agress their funding, objectives and can pick and choose their Chief Constables etc.
Sussed the quote function, yay!
And herein lies the problem. Having one party, for whom an actual minority of the population actually voted, having near-absolute power over those institutions of society that govern all our lives, is wrong. Because it's a gateway to totalitarianism. We need political reform now more than ever before.
Which groups are these?
The ones rioting and damaging people property?
Usually the extreme left.
just shows how the police aren’t doing their job of adequately protecting society.
The other ‘kill the Bill’ chant I heard was - ‘who are you protecting?’
Starmer is a Tory plant obviously. I thought that went without saying
I thought Corbyn was the Tory plant, he did more damage to Labour in 5 years than the Tories have managed in over 100.
Stokes Croft is the most anarchist place I can think of in the UK. Ketamine and squat parties are a political statement ya know 🙂
I don’t sense this was a case of police officers inciting violence
Possibly not in this case I don't know, but there is a long unpleasant history of the use of agitators and deliberately heavy-handed police tactics to incite crowds and discredit protests. And it's very useful timing for the government isn't it, who have shown themselves to be quite partial to a bit of Putin-style authoritarianism/manipulation.
#tinfoil
The other ‘kill the Bill’ chant I heard was – ‘who are you protecting?’
Not who, but what, surely?
It mainly seems to be statues
The BBC and other mainstream media outlets were very quick to jump on this story this morning, but virtually no mention of the bill the demonstrators were shouting about, and crucially last week almost a news blackout on this subject.
The BBC and other mainstream media outlets were very quick to jump on this story this morning, but virtually no mention of the bill the demonstrators were shouting about,
Of course. Yet the narrative has swung so far right that the BBC are now routinely/reflexively accused of being a ‘far-left’ operation even as they are flagrant bootlickers dot gov. What idiocratic times we inhabit.
I can’t see any way at all that these powers could ever be misused or extended beyond their original intent...
What powers do police have now?
If the police want to place restrictions on a protest, they generally have to show it may result in "serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community".
They can also impose specific measures on the routes of marches.
When it comes to major events, such details are typically thrashed out with the organisers weeks in advance.
Violent protest 'shameful day' for Bristol
PM defends policing bill amid criticism from MPs
What went wrong at the Sarah Everard vigil?
How will the bill change those powers?
Police chiefs will be able to put more conditions on static protests.
They will be able to:
Impose a start and finish time
Set noise limits
Apply these rules to a demonstration by just one person
Taken to an extreme, let's say there's an individual holding a protest placard, while blasting out their views on a speaker.
If they refuse to follow police directions over how they should conduct their protest, they could be fined up to £2,500.
It will also become a crime to fail to follow restrictions the protesters "ought" to have known about, even if they have not received a direct order from an officer.
At present, police need to prove protesters knew they had been told to move on, before they can be said to have broken the law.
The proposed law includes an offence of "intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance".
This is designed to stop people occupying public spaces, hanging off bridges, gluing themselves to windows, or employing other protest tactics to make themselves both seen and heard.
One final measure clarifies that damage to memorials could lead to up to 10 years in prison. This follows the toppling of a statue of slave trader Edward Colston in Bristol.
One final measure clarifies that damage to memorials could lead to up to 10 years in prison.
I will make a bet with any one, that no-one in this country is ever going to be put inside for ten years for busting out the paint on a statue. I think it's handy for govts to let you think that, but it'll never happen.
Why Bristol though?
You know, where the cops literally tazered their own race relations coordinator in the face...That Bristol
If peaceful protest gets restricted in an authoritarian manner, the gut instinct the present Tory regime as far as I can see, then what becomes the alternative?
Or in other words, if your peaceful protest is illegal, then you might take the view that you’re as well hung for a sheep as a lamb.
I will make a bet with any one, that no-one in this country is ever going to be put inside for ten years for busting out the paint on a statue.
30 days jail for the chap who put a Mohicane on Churchill IIRC.
I will make a bet with any one, that no-one in this country is ever going to be put inside for ten years for busting out the paint on a statue.
Indeed. It's all part of the ongoing culture war. Sending a loud and clear message to the gammons that we will protect the monuments to slave traders the glorious empire from the gangs of rampaging, lawless, lefty hooligans intent on 'doing down' the UK
So on that score, last nights protestors did exactly what our evil Tory overlords wanted them to do, in making their case for their harsher laws (but only for selected crimes) and the need to further curtail civil liberties
Well done to all involved
It does make you wonder how clearly 'the left' need to have their elephant traps signposted, as the present 30 ft high neon lights with big arrows pointing at them seem clearly insufficient
Yep, if only they were well behaved like those nice ladies on Clapham Common it all would've been ok.
The people that caused the violence weren't protesters, they were thugs looking for any excuse to break the law with little consequence. They went there looking to have a laugh, a get together, a fight and they started one.
The irritation is that this plays right into Patel's hands and does even more damage to the real issue.
Also, why is it ALWAYS men and often young men that start the violence? More needs to be done to stamp out violence at a young age.
As predicted, just a bit earlier than expected and not in London.
Its just the start, this year is going to be very interesting.
Everything this government is does is for the benefit of the Tory party, not the public. The goal is to enrich its friends and to do this they need to keep the gammons happy, as long as they think the government is listening to them and has their best interests at heart they'll forgive them spunking billions at private companies.
The people that caused the violence weren’t protesters, they were thugs looking for any excuse to break the law with little consequence. They went there looking to have a laugh, a get together, a fight and they started one.
That's not fair. Not all coppers are bastards.
The irritation is that this plays right into Patel’s hands and does even more damage to the real issue.The irritation is that this plays right into Patel’s hands and does even more damage to the real issue.
It gives the Daily Heil the chance to plaster photos of burning police cars and archive shots of people tearing down statues all over 27 pages with their well-worn 'we're all going to hell in a handcart' narrative and an editorial on how this just proves that the new laws are needed more than ever
All while Priti Patel laughs like a bond villain at the half-wits doing her job for her
The people that caused the violence weren’t protesters, they were thugs looking for any excuse to break the law with little consequence.
Yawn. The whole point of rioting, whether organised or not, is that being nice polite protestors, marching down the street waving placards and signing petitions doesn't work because the politicians simply ignore them. I think back to the Iraq War march where there were two million people in London that day who obediently marched, waved placards and listened to the usual rent-a-quote speakers at a rally, who were then completely ignored. I swore that would be the last march I ever attended and it was. I'm also pretty sure that had that protest indulged in a bit of window breaking and arson, the Iraq war might never have happened. Two million people is enough to bring down a government, let alone stop a war. It might be messy and uncomfortable but rioting has its place, and it's proven to be effective.
The ones rioting and damaging people property?
Usually the extreme left.
You're right. The extreme right at least keep to damaging and destroying (i.e. killing) people.
Must admit I had to laugh at the Labour MP commenting that you don't earn the right to peaceful protest and liberty by rioting.
Conveniently forgetting the American War of Independence and hundreds of pro-democracy riots that have taken place around the world, including the Hong Kong ones that the government supported.
The whole country is full of dimwitted **** wits.
The police were put out by PP pointing the finger after Clapham when 'they were only doing their job' as instructed and quite rightly refused to apologise. Next time round, life is made easier if you have a few 'demonstrators' acting up and you can appear to be reactive and have the government, the press and a few on here give you support and sympathy and blame the left for the government introducing repressive legislation. Result!
Enough about the police, what about the protestors?
👍
They're was quite an animated kill the bill protest (well 100 people) outside MK train station on Friday night
No riots tho
It was always going to be a lose-lose situation (either it was peaceful and didn't get reported/didn't have any impact or turned into a riot and played right into the government's hands) but I can understand why people felt they had to try (peaceful protesting) anyway.
With so much of the population willing to give the Tories all the power they want I think it's only going to change far down the line, when many of our rights have already been stripped away and enough of the population have finally had enough. Then it will need to be V for Vendetta style rebellions in order to effect change - might sound sensationalist but I honestly just can't see a it reversing in a more rational way. The Tories passing these sort of Bills sporadically with little to no mainstream media criticism is just going to keep happening until it's too late to do anything but have revolt/rebellion.
Which groups are these?
The ones rioting and damaging people property?
Usually the extreme left.
My family’s experience, in Burnley, has clearly been different to yours. It was the extreme right smashing up shops here. Ymmv
They’re was quite an animated kill the bill protest (well 100 people) outside MK train station on Friday night
No riots tho
When there is rioting in Milton Keynes we know the revolution is really coming
dazh
Yawn. The whole point of rioting, whether organised or not, is that being nice polite protestors, marching down the street waving placards and signing petitions doesn’t work because the politicians simply ignore them...blah, blah, blah.
Did you even watch the news? There was a point to the protest, a pretty important point, but there wasn't a point to the riot other than to destroy and damage stuff. They were riding on top of the police vans and laughing it off, they were lighting fires under occupied police cars, how does any of that actually help "kill the bill"?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest - not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
My family’s experience, in Burnley, has clearly been different to yours. It was the extreme right smashing up shops here. Ymmv
Luckily we have all of the lovely unbiased, investigative media channels reporting on the situation and they know what is what and who is who! /sarcasm
#badfaithgoodfaithnofaith
Did you even watch the news? There was a point to the protest, a pretty important point, but there wasn’t a point to the riot other than to destroy and damage stuff. They were riding on top of the police vans and laughing it off, they were lighting fires under occupied police cars, how does any of that actually help “kill the bill”?
Did you even watch the news? How many other anti bill protests did you see? The one at MK train station for example?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest – not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
Which will probably be illegal under the bill
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest – not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
XR was organised virtue signalling, headed by a bunch of privileged middle class hypocrites who fly round the globe to go to yoga retreats etc. All XR really managed to do was piss off a load of working class Londoners trying to get to work, so that they can pay their bills, feed their kids etc. Kind of ran out of steam after some idiot jumped on top of a train at Canning Town, then got dragged off and had a slap for his troubles. XR had a lot of public support initially, but then lost its way when protestors thought it was a good idea to prevent ordinary people getting to work. People who probably lost money/faced disciplinary action/got sacked because they were repeatedly late in. That had a real impact on peoples' lives, but in a negative way. Not the way to win friends and influence people. As for Bristol; maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government's dirty work. Or they might steam in much heavier handed, next time, and show the public what they're really about (militarised police by stealth). And then we'll see some real action...
A properly organised protest.
Yeah the same extinction rebellion who use their activists as cannon-fodder and then abandon them when they get nicked. No thanks.
I'm all for peaceful direct action, I did a fair amount of it myself in my younger days, but sometimes you can't beat a bit of rioting to bring an issue to national attention. Given the police bill has been at the top of the news all day I'd say it's served a purpose.
igm has it.
If peacefull protest is restricted they become violent as people carry on. In the past 5 years I've been on 3 "illegal" protests to stop EDL types marching through my home town. They all got violent targeted between the two groups. If the police had attempted to stop the anti demonstrators then the fight would have been against them sadly. It's not right but would have happened. I for one would have refused to depart if that had been the police stance on the day. Present government trying to restrict demonstrations is no suprise. And no I'm not condoning violence against the police.
maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government’s dirty work.
How about a pierced lung?
Oh it's okay, only good pig is a dead one.
Is that the acceptable standpoint now?
Ooh, ooh can we have an STW riot in Todmorden? I’ll bring the Aeropress! After all, nobody listens to anything else...
How about a pierced lung?
Oh it’s okay, only good pig is a dead one.
Is that the acceptable standpoint now?
The whole UK (perhaps world) seems to me to be a simmering tinderbox of anger, focused at all and anyone. I can't help but think this summer is going to see quite a lot of violence on the streets and vitriol online.
As for Bristol; maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government’s dirty work.
The government’s dirty work? What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another? You know, the parliament that we all elect. ****ing idiot.
And for what it’s worth, I’m all for protests, demonstrations, marches, vigils etc. Not the handful of dickheads that like to turn them violent, they can get in the sea, but the rest of them - good on them (not the EDL and their ilk obviously).
The government’s dirty work? What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another? You know, the parliament that we all elect. **** idiot.
Very much this. The Police don't write laws nor are solely responsible for the arseholes who do.
There's a weird group on this forum who seem to thrive on the idea of chaos and violent disorder, but I suspect it's just keyboard warriors over frothing their soya frappuccinos.
idiot.
You and my wife are in agreement about one thing, at least!
What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another?
Where do you want me to start? Racial profiling? I don't remember that going through parliament. Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don't remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted? I don't remember that going through parliament. I won't go on, as I desperately need the loo, but you can have those for starters.
Ah, that's better. Now regardless of whatever you, or I, or anyone else here thinks, there is a growing perception amongst the UK public, that the police are increasingly politicised, and act only when it suits the interests of the 'elites'. If that perception continues to grow, and that mistrust deepens, then we will see a lot more violence and disorder. Ultimately, it comes down to individual officers making the decision to do what they themsleves feel is 'right'. If that means 'following orders' and bashing a few protestors, so be it. But they have that choice. Nobody forces them to put on that uniform. And if they do so, under the auspices of serving and protecting society, then they have to make those decisions as individuals. And ask themselves, who are they really serving?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies.
Intrigued to know what govt policies are greener because of XR.
The whole UK (perhaps world) seems to me to be a simmering tinderbox of anger, focused at all and anyone.
Well I was beeped out by a white van driver the other day whilst out riding on my own, but other than that, it seems pretty calm to me....
What are they protesting?
It's O.K. Marvelous Marvin is in charge, so don't panic. Seems to be same shit different day living in Bristol as we are ALL racist due to the slave trade. I know, before I am sure I will get flailed this had nothing do do with that and it was against Love the place, but could really do without the idiots. I remember the St.Pauls riots in 1980, nothing changes. Is this the way they think they can changed the Police and Crime Bill. Jog on, it's more of certainty now.....
Where do you want me to start? Racial profiling? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted?
They really were busy last night in Bristol if they managed all of that.
Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted?
Probably why there’s an ongoing public inquiry into the two Met units that did all this (SDS & NPOIU)
Bit confused but are you saying this stuff only happened over two years in the Met?
They really were busy last night in Bristol if they managed all of that.
Shame you didn't understand my point. Ah well never mind.
Probably why there’s an ongoing public inquiry into the two years Met units that did all this
And why did it take so long, and why has there been so much resistance from the police, to give information/evidence? And why the continued insistence with NCND?
But the real question is; why did it all (and much much more) happen in the first place? None of us voted for that...
Premier Icon
grum
Free MemberBit confused but are you saying this stuff only happened over two years in the Met?
Typo - now changed. It went on from 1968 to c2010 iirc
And why did it take so long, and why has there been so much resistance from the police, to give information/evidence? And why the continued insistence with NCND?
Possibly because those Special Branch units operated in a world of secrecy far removed from normal policing perhaps, I think that is one of the aims of UCPI to figure all this out.
I suspect to protect the officers who went up against other groups who were violent or criminals
NCND, well we all saw on Line of Duty last night what happens when you breach NCND and confirm a CHIS 😉
The government would do better to look at reforming the criminal justice system entirely, we spend more than the US per capita. Nope, let's keep putting them in prison to keep the gammon happy (who were induced by the fear mongering press) so we can stay in office. Increased sentencing rarely reduces offending, 85,000 currently in prison in the UK,(44,000 in 1990) let's not even talk about re offending rates, do prison sentences really reduce crime?
If the people want to protest, they will, regardless of the punishment they could face.
So on that score, last nights protestors did exactly what our evil Tory overlords wanted them to do, in making their case for their harsher laws (but only for selected crimes) and the need to further curtail civil liberties
You assume the rioters weren't arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown. Watch Patel bring the crime bill back sharpish.
Increased sentencing rarely reduces offending, 85,000 currently in prison in the UK,(44,000 in 1990) let’s not even talk about re offending rates, do prison sentences really reduce crime?
We seem to want a justice system that focuses on punishment, not reducing crime.
UK recidivism - 75% of ex-inmates reoffend within nine years of release, and 39.3% within the first twelve months.
Norway - 20% after two years and about 25% after five years.
When Are Hoidal first began his career in the Norwegian Correctional service in the early 1980s, the prison experience here was altogether different.
"It was completely hard," he remembers. "It was a masculine, macho culture with a focus on guarding and security. And the recidivism rate was around 60-70%, like in the US."
But in the early 1990s, the ethos of the Norwegian Correctional Service underwent a rigorous series of reforms to focus less on what Hoidal terms "revenge" and much more on rehabilitation. Prisoners, who had previously spent most of their day locked up, were offered daily training and educational programmes and the role of the prison guards was completely overhauled.
But the gammons would go nuts, despite overwhelming evidence that it would reduce crime. Weird country we live in.
You assume the rioters weren’t arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown. Watch Patel bring the crime bill back sharpish.
Organise a riot?
Organised by who?
Well I was beeped out by a white van driver the other day whilst out riding on my own, but other than that, it seems pretty calm to me….
One step away from The Road.....
You assume the rioters weren’t arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown.
You seriously think these incompetent **** wits could manage that? Jeez, there's some conspiracy bollocks going round.