[Closed] Right to be peeved? Kids nativity content

.just why are you bothered?

radical atheist

I'm glad there are people like Ben that raise legitimate concerns to head teachers. You see, I'd also be concerned but just hope that someone else wasn't lazy like me and might raise it with the head. In the meantime I'd be the kind of arsehole that gets so worked up that I have to call someone a bellend on an Internet forum and not to be getting so worked up about stuff.

So had he said let us draw the raffle numbers it may well just be a request, not a command. Its not a good argument you put fwd as its an instruction asking to do something. Please get out my house is not really a request either. We dont need to be there to know this.

peeved and offended are virtually synonymous

Has any arsehole* said "professionally peeved" yet?

*besides me

ust why are you bothered?

Well, slightly bothered - bothered enough to send a friendly private email, not bothered enough to involve the PTA, the police, our MSP, etc 😉

Partly because a year or so ago on the first school visit we asked the head about her policy regarding religion and she reassured us that she followed the guidelines.

I am married 🙂

Point I was making was: there's no point in claiming you're not "offended" if you title a thread with the word 'peeved' and then go on to declaim against religion in general for 8 pages.

I was more interested in finding out why ben's the way he is about this. Forget semantics.

Partly because a year or so ago on the first school visit we asked the head about her policy regarding religion and she reassured us that she followed the guidelines.

I think you've answered my question bc, thanks.

I think offended and upset draws pictures of a hand wringer like mary whitehouse I suspect it why most folk say it tbh- when the reality is when we moan about stuff, in general, we are not actually offended and upset just mildly peeved.

Well, slightly bothered - bothered enough to send a friendly private email, not bothered enough to involve the PTA, the police, our MSP

So why did you report the clergyman for attempting to convert you and your family then?

For all the problems and debate regarding organised religions, you will find that the vast majority of "clergy", of all religions and denominations at the grass roots level, do a lot of good in their communities. They offer advice and support to people who have nowhere else to go.

Now, there has been a "friendly" complaint about an attempted conversion, which I would imagine, will have be investigated in line with the schools guidelines.

For what purpose?

*I am not religious.

So had he said let us draw the raffle numbers it may well just be a request, not a command. Its not a good argument you put fwd as its an instruction asking to do something. Please get out my house is not really a request either. We dont need to be there to know this.

Am I speaking another language or are people here generally incapable of reading 95% of my posts?

CONTEXT

FFS...

For what purpose?

In the hope that the guidelines that the school is meant to follow, guidelines that we were assured the school would follow, will be followed in future.

Is that really all that unreasonable?

So why did you report the clergyman for attempting to convert you and your family then?

Umm ... he didn't.

So why did you report the clergyman for attempting to convert you and your family then?

Bit pointless trying to draw analogies like this when the language is taken from an archaic prayer.

So why did you report the clergyman for attempting to convert you and your family then?
Umm ... he didn't.

He quoted three parts of the guidelines which apprently hadn't been followed, one of which was this:

Glasgow City Council's Religious Observance Policy states that:

"An approach seeking to convert an audience to one faith or another is not appropriate in the non-denominational sector"

I'm gobsmacked that anyone would be surprised to find Jesus Christ being mentioned in a nativity play.

Although thinking about it, maybe it's to be expected....

oldnpastit - Member
I'm gobsmacked that anyone would be surprised to find Jesus Christ being mentioned in a nativity play.

I pretty much gave up reading the same circular arguments on page 6, so I'll just pick up a couple of early points:

All children are born atheists (a lack of belief in any gods) until the brain washing takes hold.

I was raised as a Christian so my tolerance of religious ceremony is pretty low, [b]I dislike going into churches[/b], and I hate almost everything about Xmas in general (bah humbug).

Well said - Durham Carhedral is pretty astounding too, and Rosslyn Chapel is one of the most amazing buildings I've ever seen. I'm not one of those atheists who thinks religion has always been a bad thing for humanity.

My only objection is when religion tries to force itself in where it shouldn't be - the law, politics, education.

AFAIAA, Jews believe that they're born Jews

I'm sure they do. I wonder what would happen if a child of Jewish parents was immediately adopted by a pair of doting Muslim parents? Reckon they'd still grow up Jewish?

@bencooper Who or what did he ask you to pray for?

I also think that most, but not all, places of worship also happen to be extremely beautiful examples of extraordinary craftsmanship and architecture, probably because of the conviction of those who built them in their beliefs.

Or because the church had the money to pay for artists and craftsmen.

@bencooper Who or what did he ask you to pray for?

It was more a general prayer, but I wasn't taking notes.

I dislike going into churches

Why?

Yeah I suppose it doesn't make much sense. It's a personal thing not a general atheist thing, and I should have left it out of that list. I just find run of the mill local churches like the one I grew up in depressing and stifling, especially with any sort of service going on. Also sorry but local churches are mostly really boring; you've seen one "I am the light of the world" banner you've seen 'em all, and then you're just sat there for ages waiting for the end...

I'm more than capable of going 'oooh' at big cathedrals or specially fancy churches with the rest of the tourists, don't worry. 😉

If you can't remember enough of what he said , why are you so mildly peeved about it? I very much doubt the kids took in much of it either.

5 points to the minister. Valiant try, failed to convert. 😀

I can't remember the exact words, there was lots of stuff about how Jesus is real and watching over us all, he can be turned to for help, stuff like that. The usual.

I don't think it's a particularly good idea for kids to be hearing stuff in school that's not true - or if they must, it should be equally balanced by people from other religions and humanists. Christianity shouldn't get special privilege to lie to children in state-funded schools.

Santa is real and watching over us, he can be turned to for stuff. The usual.

Anyone on here told a 6 year old kid that this week?

I know I have.

Have the teachers at your kids school peddled the same lies to your kids?

perchypanther - Member
Santa is real and watching over us, he can be turned to for stuff. The usual.

Anyone on here told a 6 year old kid that this week?

I know I have.

Have the teachers at your kids school peddled the same lies to your kids?

Never mind 6 year olds perchypanther. My TWO! year old was indoctrinated in the santa lie during the week at her nursery.

Ben, do you know there were Hindu and Muslims families at the nativity play?
As I said, perhaps rather than pointing out in an email that no religion should enter education, you could have asked for other faiths spiritual leaders to also come to school.

I am far more concerned about other influences kids get these days than what a minister says.

Am I speaking another language or are people here generally incapable of reading 95% of my posts?

CONTEXT

FFS.

What's a real eye opener to me is the aggressive language, insulting words and indignant outrage demonstrated, NOT by Ben, but by those who seek to denegrate his opinion and actions. I've seen nothing but polite puzzlement in return. Yet Ben is the one being labelled as a militant, or radical atheist. Some people may in fact benefit from a taking a moment to reflect on themselves and their behaviour towards others. Not very 'Christian', ironically.

[quote=bencooper ] on the first school visit we asked the head about her policy regarding religion and she reassured us that she followed the guidelines.In my experience it has been like this for years. The church is an insidious presence in the education sector and teachers/headmasters have not yet unlearned how they were brought up. She would not have been knowingly lying to you 😆

Ben, do you know there were Hindu and Muslims families at the nativity play?
As I said, perhaps rather than pointing out in an email that no religion should enter education, you could have asked for other faiths spiritual leaders to also come to school.

Yes. One of daughter's friends is Hindu, others are Muslim. It's a pretty multicultural school - poorer area of Glasgow, lots of asylum seekers.

There's two issues, really:

Worship in school. It's against the guidelines and I think it has no place in education. So other faith leaders (and humanists) should definitely come along to talk about their beliefs, but they should not conduct any sermons or prayers.

The special privilege given to Christianity. Show equal balance to all faiths and none, don't allow only the Christian minister to come to school.

I agree with you about equal balance. Although an atheist I do occasionally go to churches as the wife is a bit more religious if it is possible to be so.

My kids go to Sunday club at the church she attends. I like it as the wife works most Sundays and it allows me to go for a fry up in peace, and consider my own spirituality. 🙂

If I go to church I try to find the things that an atheist can take out from it. Sermons are generally dull, but positives can still be taken. Similarly prayer. I often find that the messages spoken by a minister go across all religions and non religions. There is no harm in listening from whatever your background. I try to quietly reflect on what they say and transfer them to my non beliefs, this does not mean you are praying in the way it is regarded.

Although sermons are wrapped up in possibly made up characters that may have been true, they at heart give positive messages. I have no problems with my kids receiving a sermon from a minister/priest/rabbi/mullah. Kids are more streetwise than ever these days, and despite headline grabbing events, mainstream religions are closer than they have ever been.

I admit this reflection time does not always work, as I can be a dick as much as the next person, but it does not hurt to try.

That is why I quite like humanism. I have been to a humanist wedding and a couple of funerals. People reflect on 'prayer time' in their own way.

So, for everyone who was worried that we'd ruined Christmas for everyone - was dropping off the kid and had a quick chat* with the head teacher. She agreed with us completely that the minister had gone a bit far, she'd already been thinking the same. Also said that she liked to think of the nativity as a folk tale and treated it like other religious stories.

So all is good, everyone is happy, no-one is offended and it's all sorted out amicably 😉

*She didn't even get the email - Glasgow Council's server accidentally caught fire, and that's broken most of their websites and all emails.

Excellent.
Merry Christmas, Ya Godless Heathen. 😀

Thank God for that.

Stop being so bloody reasonable. Have a rant you sodding pagan

*She didn't even get the email - Glasgow Council's server accidentally caught fire, and that's broken most of their websites and all emails.

act of god...

^^ 😆 😆

😀

Okay, new rant: what kind of muppets put the entire online presence of Scotland's biggest council onto one server with no backups, then set it on fire?

Okay, new rant: what kind of muppets put the entire online presence of Scotland's biggest council onto one server with no backups, then set it on fire?

english ones.

Glasgow City Council Head of Information services declined to comment.....

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_UiG9fein_wyA7F2D09SKj6DW6Wi291RgvYG-AxaVNvNG37BS [/img]