[Closed] Right to be peeved? Kids nativity content

I genuinely don't know what you were expecting. It's not just a story. It's the cornerstone of one of the largest religions in the world. A religion that millions believe in. Including some at the school no doubt. so if you're not bothered by the stories influence then why are you bothered about some bloke standing up and talking about it too.
If your kids can make their own mind up then what's the fuss. If they're allowed to decide for themselves then they need to hear it. Just the same as they should hear your point of view. I know which one I think they'd give the most weight.

If you celebrate Christmas you're a hypocrite. Right. Nice one.

Most of these 'christian' festivals just replace earlier pagan (NB pagan in this context is used both literally and as shortform to mean "earlier than protestant/RC" - i learn my lessons me!) ones anyway. Chances are you christians are actually celebrating a pagan (see note above) festival.

So who's the hypocrite again?

Edit - OK, ransos and bencooper beat me to it. Must type faster!

There's a lot of people not actually reading/understanding what the OP's objection was and jumping to conclusions.

In case you need someone else to highlight it.

His objection is NOT to the nativity play
His objection is NOT to it having (necessary) Christian content
His objection is NOT to celebrating a story/holiday/religious festival

His objection IS to a minster leading an act of worship in a secular School.

It's not about being anti-theist, it's about NOT being theist in a secular environment*.

I'f you're going to judge at least judge on his actual complaint.

*by all means allow the minster to [i]invite people who are inclined[/i] to follow him back to his church for a service afterwards to learn more about the Christian interpretation of the story, but that's an entirely different thing, and even then I would hope other faiths were given this opportunity at other celebrations.

I genuinely don't know what you were expecting.

This has been covered in some detail.

I genuinely don't know what you were expecting.

I was expecting a lovely nativity play with cute little kids singing badly. That's what we got, and it was great.

It's the cornerstone of one of the largest religions in the world. A religion that millions believe in. Including some at the school no doubt.

So exactly like Buddhism, Islam, Judaism etc. Which it should have been treated the same as.

I genuinely don't know what you were expecting. It's not just a story. It's the cornerstone of one of the largest religions in the world. A religion that millions believe in. Including some at the school no doubt. so if you're not bothered by the stories influence then why are you bothered about some bloke standing up and talking about it too.

Equally true if a muslim preacher tried to convert the kids during a celebration of Eid.

[i]I don't believe in god so you can't have a present? Good one. [/i]

If you want to educate your kids properly then yes that's the stance you should be taking. So rather than being a bit mamby pamby and outraged at religion being mentioned at school you should have had that touch conversation with the kid. 'Sorry we don't believe in religion junior so you're not getting a present today.'

His objection IS to a minster leading an act of worship in a secular School.

This.

what were the pop songs?

...only in the fevered imagination of the Daily Mail. Teaching children about religious and cultural festivals is part of their education, trying to convert them isn't.

Ben does seem to be correct however looking at the guidelines, so if something could be construed to be an attempt at 'conversion', then it should be stopped and I guess it would reduce the workloads on the teachers 🙂

To be fair however they should ban all plays, just incase it offends someone.

what were the pop songs?

Oh, I don't know - modern stuff, not the classics like "When Shepherds Wash Their Socks By Night" 😀

Well Ben - since you want to quote guidelines, I'll trump you with Government Circular 1/94, which is still Extant:

[i]
All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual, moral and cultural development.

[b]Local agreed RE syllabuses for county schools and equivalent grant- maintained schools must in future reflect the fact that religious traditions in the country are in the main Christian[/b] whilst taking account of the teaching and practices of other principal religions. Syllabuses must be periodically reviewed.

[b]Collective worship in county schools and equivalent grant-maintained schools must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character,[/b] though not distinctive of any particular Christian denomination.

The [b]parental right of withdrawal from RE [/b]and collective worship and the safeguards for teachers are unchanged. Local bodies advise on RE and collective worship and recommend new RE syllabuses. They represent faith groups, teachers, the LEA and grant- maintained schools.[/i]

So, you'll find that the school are quite clearly following the law, as set out in the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, Schedule 20

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/31/schedule/20

I'm kind surprised that secular school would even mark a religious festival as couldn't any celebration be seen as trying to convert people?

Not a secular school - a non-denominational school.
The schools do not exclude religious teaching. Quite the opposite. My kids, who also attend Scottish non-denominational school operating under the same guidelines, are far more knowledgeable in the study of comparative religions than I am.....because they got taught it at school in the same classroom as Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, Hindu and atheist kids. They have visited various places of worship of varying faiths as part of this....but never a Christian church.

Was the minister a bit naughty? Yes. Yes he was.
Was it worth emailing the heedie and starting an internet rammy? Probably not.

Which bit of the bible has all the presents and wrapping paper and debt and drinking and turkey and sprouts? (although I could believe sprouts are christian, ****ing evil things that they are)

If you want to educate your kids properly then yes that's the stance you should be taking. So rather than being a bit mamby pamby and outraged at religion being mentioned at school you should have had that touch conversation with the kid. 'Sorry we don't believe in religion junior so you're not getting a present today.'

This is just straw man nonsense. I'm more than happy for my kids to learn about religions, and to participate in the exchange of gifts during a particular time, which is currently appropriated by Christianity. None of this implies a belief in god.

I expect most atheists are the same.

Im not saying its any different to any of the other religions you mention. But the nativity is a christian story. So i don't see what difference there is in putting on a christian play and then subsequently having some bloke stand up and talk about it and lead a prayer. If you don't believe in it then just ignore it. Explain this to your (almost certainly) very bright children and move on. Exactly the same as if they celebrated any other religious festival.
Thats all I'm saying.

I'll trump you with Government Circular 1/94

Which applies in England and Wales - Scotland has a separate education system.

But the nativity is a christian story. So i don't see what difference there is in putting on a christian play and then subsequently having some bloke stand up and talk about it and lead a prayer. ... Exactly the same as if they celebrated any other religious festival.

At Ramadan, they didn't have the local Imam come in and ask everyone to kneel facing Mecca.

It's not exactly how they celebrate other religious festivals.

although I could believe sprouts are christian, **** evil things that they are

That would explain why you have to put a cross into them

So i don't see what difference there is in putting on a christian play and then subsequently having some bloke stand up and talk about it and lead a prayer

You can't see the difference between storytelling, and an authority figure trying to tell children that the story is all true and they must believe it? I think it's quite easy to spot the difference.

did they sing R.E.S.P.eeeee.ceeee.T. find out what it means to me.

i like that one, but it doesnt get used at christmas much.

I see Ben's point of view. Not sure that I would have done anything about it myself, but I completely understand why one would be moved to do it.

There are a number of reasons for a child to take part in the school play beyond its content, just as there are a number of reasons for a parent of any (or no) religious persuasion to want to watch their child in that play. The fact it's a condensed, theatrical version of the central Christian story can be quite secondary to these other reasons.

What's most interesting is the almost institutionalised response: people sat there quietly (head bowed or not) when a preacher decided to "lead" them in prayer. I'd be more concerned about the effective exploitation of the audience's politeness than the religious content.

Me, I'd have let my mind wander in a moment of quiet and then considered sending an email to the school to remind them of their religious responsibilities. But, being an agnostic, I'd have quickly forgotten all about it.

At Ramadan, they didn't have the local Imam come in and ask everyone to kneel facing Mecca.

It's not exactly how they celebrate other religious festivals.

Well maybe they should have done.

At Ramadan, they didn't have the local Imam come in and ask everyone to kneel facing Mecca.

Would you have objected to the local Imam coming to the school and saying a few words after any celebrations the school organized?

Same for Rabbi after passover?

Personally I think it would be great to get more religion into schools, might reduce some of the conflict in the world, if we all understand a bit more about each other.

There are a number of reasons for a child to take part in the school play beyond its content, just as there are a number of reasons for a parent of any (or no) religious persuasion to want to watch their child in that play.

Well, quite. As I sat watching my beaming daughter - dressed as a donkey - singing at full volume and wildly out of tune, I will confess to getting a bit misty eyed. I'm delighted the school went to so much effort to put on a good show.

Just accuse of him of being a paedo - you wont see him again, he probably is anyway.

Seriously though, given the context of the day it's not a massive surprise, is it? and even though it is a bit naughty you really are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I suggest in the spirit of christmas you forgive the vicar his transgression.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If I went to see a play that was, as far as the kids (and anyone with half a rational brain) can tell, just a story then had to pray after it in an environment where praying is expressly not allowed I'd be miffed.

If it helps I went to a "secular" school that rammed Christianity down my throat in the 90's (we were allowed one Jewish song a month, as a token) which had the undesired effect of me getting sick to death of it and becoming a good, healthy, well rounded atheist. Hopefully your daughter will end up the same as you and I.

The minister is just telling a story. Is ben not an authority figure in his kids lives? Can he not explain to them that what the bloke is saying is a load of pish? I'm pretty sure he is and that he does.
He's only an authority figure if you treat him that way. i.e. if you're a christian.

Would you have objected to the local Imam coming to the school and saying a few words after any celebrations the school organized?

Depends entirely on what those words were. If they were along the lines of "we believe in such-and-such" then great, all for that. If they were along the lines of "this is absolutely true, you must believe it, and now we'll all pray to my God" then definitely not on.

You can't see the difference between storytelling, and an authority figure trying to tell children that the story is all true and they must believe it? I think it's quite easy to spot the difference.

It's the hipocrisy of the OP that gets me - 'I'll let her take part in this religious play because it's cute and nice, but I'll be shocked when a representative of the religion speaks about it at the end'.

(FWIW - I'm an athiest so have no religious axe to grind).

COMPLETELY with the OP on this. Whilst I have no issue with religious education and awareness, how DARE any school present their choice of fairy story as fact. IMHO, this country feels like it's gone backwards on this in the last few years, the conservative Christian position seems to have had a stealthy resurgence. I could be completely wrong, it may just be my perception I suppose.

All of you 'get a grip, it's a Christian country' brigade would be up in arms if they started poo pooing evolution in favour of Genesis at your child's school I would imagine (or at least hope). THIS IS NO DIFFERENT. A story that some people believe should always be presented as such to impressionable young minds. To present it as fact when no scientific proof exists is absolutely disgusting and is nothing more than indoctrination, plain and simple. It should be illegal.

I think most non denominational Scottish Primary schools are like this OP. Ours are in EK and the local Church of Scotland Minister attends many assemblies, nativities, etc in a formal role.

I think the key in the guidance is around

without compromise to their personal faith stances

and in answer to your original question, I'd say no. It is the norm, get used to it or put your kids in private school where you pay to get choice.

how DARE any school present their choice of fairy story as fact

Never heard of faith schools?

I like this one

Gary_M - Member

I don't believe in god so you can't have a present? Good one.

If you want to educate your kids properly then yes that's the stance you should be taking. So rather than being a bit mamby pamby and outraged at religion being mentioned at school you should have had that touch conversation with the kid. 'Sorry we don't believe in religion junior so you're not getting a present today.'

Because gifts are the exclusive preserve of Christianity and it's the bible which preaches most about giving extravagant and exorbitant gifts to ones own whilst ignoring all the poor and needy all around.

It's the hipocrisy of the OP that gets me - 'I'll let her take part in this religious play because it's cute and nice, but I'll be shocked when a representative of the religion speaks about it at the end'.

The OP is pointing out that the school is not following its own guidelines. You'll have to explain why that is hypocritical.

Seriously? Atheist? Nativity play? Religion? Prayers?
Seriously? 😯
The human race is doomed..

Ben, my apologies for the fact that I forgot you were in the frozen north.

If you don't want to expose your children to views and beliefs other than your own, or those you are willing to tolerate, then educate them yourself or at the very least withdraw them from any activity in school that may have a religious element.

The OP is pointing out that the school is not following its own guidelines. You'll have to explain why that is hypocritical.

If religion in schools bothered him that much he should have complained beforehand about them putting on a Christian play, or withdrawn his daughter.

I am a raving Hoxhaite atheist and you are being unreasonable, OP.

If you are so worried about this, why on earth haven't you enrolled your child into a secular school?

It is. It is a non-denominational Scottish state school. Do I need to quote the guidelines again?

Under the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 Education Authorities have a statutory duty to provide Religious Observance and Religious Education in Scottish schools. This continues the requirements of previous Education Acts. Furthermore parents / carers have a legal right to withdraw their child from such provision.

Objecting to the presence of religion in a [i]nativity play [/i]is of course stone bonkers. But that's not, as I understand it, what the OP is objecting to; rather that the school broke the rules. In that instance, a polite email is perfectly justifiable I reckon.

Your militant Agnostics would hold that Atheism is just as much a faith as any of the religions.

They really wouldn't. Quite the opposite in fact, that's sort of the point.

Not the same, bringing kids up celebrating christmas and easter whilst playing the staunch athiest line is hypocrisy.

And that's patent nonsense. If you think that Christmas is actually anything to do with religion for many (most?) people in modern day Britain you're deluding yourself. The "true meaning of Christmas" might well involve a spot of worshipping for the devout, or their annual visit to church for those who like to think of themselves as Christian but don't really believe it; but really it's about having a break from work, buying presents for loved ones, spending time with family and laughing at Auntie Ethel who's got mullered on cooking sherry and tried to go to the toilet in a cupboard.

Hands up who celebrated November 5th this year, and gave even a passing thought to the foiling of the Gunpowder Plot. Hell, I'd quite like to blow it up myself these days. In actuality it's just an excuse to have a bit of a party and keep the local Burns Unit busy.

Where do we stand on Halloween?

If religion in schools bothered him that much he should have complained beforehand about them putting on a Christian [u]play[/u], or withdrawn his daughter.

It's almost as if the entire thread has passed you by. Once again, the issue is that school appears to not be following its own guidelines. Oh, and I've highlighted the important bit.

Where do we stand on Halloween?

Behind the door with a really scary mask on.

It's the thin end of the wedge, if you accept this where does it stop, coffee mornings? Singing in a choir? Be vigilant peeps, very vigilant.

Really Ben should have objected to the play rather than the priest...

Have you opted out of this Ben for your child, as can't you send a letter to the school insisting you opt out of RME and RO? To save them from the horror of religious observance.

Your militant Agnostics would hold that Atheism is just as much a faith as any of the religions.

They really wouldn't. Quite the opposite in fact, that's sort of the point.

Militant Agnosticism - I don't know, and you don't either.
It's a semantic point which I find amusing.

Hands up who celebrated November 5th this year, and gave even a passing thought to the foiling of the Gunpowder Plot. Hell, I'd quite like to blow it up myself these days.

I thought it was about burning Catholics.

bencooper - Member
Where do we stand on Halloween?

Behind the door with a really scary mask on.

that made me lol. 😀

The godswallop is strong in this thread

Once again, the issue is that school appears to not be following its own guidelines.

I don't believe in most of that stuff apart from as a parable, but I wouldn't complain about it.

Then again I would like to see other religions being represented as well, which I suspect they aren't, which gives the (false) impression that everyone in this country is Christian. This would irk me.

I would be pretty uncomfortable with it too I think..
I've attended a few nativity plays and carol services to see my kids perform now, and it is IMHO completely unnecessary to have a deluded old man present, banging on about sky fairies..

I'm even reading them a book about the nativity in the evenings atm, also completely doable without bringing mental illness into it.. And before you all get offended by my turn of phrase, I was sectioned in my youth because of religious delusions and the majority of kids in the unit were suffering similar confusion..
I think it's hypocritical that I was labelled as mentally ill, whereas if I'd been receiving a salary and had sworn allegiance to the correct corporation my delusions would have commanded power and authority..

Dunno if I woulda written an email though.. I'm too apathetic

DISCLAIMER: I am (probably) NOT a prophet

Ben,

I haven't read all the thread. I don't think you are out of order at all. The problem exists on many levels:

1. The inclusion of worship in schools is written into the Education Scotland Act. You need to lobby your MSPs to point out the ridiculousness of that in a country bedevilled with sectarianism.

2. If the head teacher is even slightly religious then they seem to blindly assume that everyone else is too, or is passively disinterested.

3. The posts I skimmed in this thread show that there is a big section of the population who think you shouldn't attend a nativity play if you don't believe and you should prevent your children from doing so too. There appears to be no understanding that you could participate in a nativity play (especially a "modern" adaptation!) without saying you believe the story or expect the "school" to present it as "fact".

4. Many teachers have such a blinkered understanding of Christmas, perpetuated by being products of the same system they now deliver, that they believe giving of parcels (and possibly Santa, Trees, etc) all originated with Christianity and were not in fact traditions (possibly pagan traditions) as part of festivals to brighten up life in the cold dark winter.

5. Dissenting views from either teachers or parents within the system are laughed at as ridiculous - just as on this thread. This helps ensure that the silent majority sit in silence.

6. Discussion about the relevance often points to the questions in the census (which many people considered are flawed) where people identify as being "Christian" despite probably having not attended a church service since leaving school.

7. If you withdraw your children from the activities they will not be doing anything in any way educational or constructive (the exception here will be if your child attends a school with a very large proportion of pupils who actively follow other religions). Your children will be excluded. Your children will be the potential subject of bullying or ridicule. Your children will be marked out as being "different".

However, if you think it is bad that a minister of religion said this at a nativity play then you don't want to imagine what is being taught in the classroom when nobody is there to question it!

Amazingly, saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make you right.

From the religious observance policy:

"An approach seeking to convert an audience to one faith or another is not appropriate in the non-denominational sector"

You'll have to explain how a minister leading the children in prayer does not constitute "seeking to convert".

Never heard of faith schools?

However, the OP is under the impression that his child's school is NOT a faith school, so you and I digress.

I've just sent a strongly worded email to Halfords after my 6 year old went into my garage and inadvertently read the labels on my bike.

He now wants me to sacrifice a chicken to this guy....

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2Yns50qZ-K01MKzC33PIuVTH5WogFlYfKvK27qxuYkb3skQU8uQ [/img]

Religious indoctrination is everywhere... be careful out there kids.

Dunno if I woulda written an email though.. I'm too apathetic

The actual writing of the email is down to the Memsahib, but I put my name to it. I'm too busy working and arguing on here to write the email myself.

While working, I'm also celebrating the story of one man who died to save us all - I forgot how good Independence Day is 😀

In my last primary nativity I played santa, explaining the story of the nativity to some aliens.

We didn't have the vicar stand up and say that all of that was true.

I don't really know what the solution to religious education in primary schools is - it's like science in that you have to tell a few fibs to explain the easy concepts and let them worry about the more complex truth when their a little older.

Top marks if you get the kids shouting "Liar!" at the vicar every time they see him. Even if it is pretty possible some kid was once born in a stable.

Militant Agnosticism - I don't know, and you don't either.

That's quite brilliant.

The entire issue could have been avoided by not inviting the minister, which seems a strange choice for a secular school to have made.

I'm a governor of a C of E school, and whilst I don't have any religious affiliation I accept that part of this is an involvement of the local parish (my own children don't buy it either despite having been there for years). There is funding and being nicely 'middle England' there is still a reasonable number of actively Christian pupils and staff - so I expect there to be some degree of what could be called indoctrination, in the nicer sense of the word.

Whilst I'd be delighted to have any faith leader come to the school to speak on the significance of their feast days and explain the teachings of their faith, I think leading a prayer might be a step too far. I'd expect a complaint from a parent if that happened.

I doubt I'd have complained, but I might not have allowed my children to take part next year without assurances of no repetition.

However, if you think it is bad that a minister of religion said this at a nativity play then you don't want to imagine what is being taught in the classroom when nobody is there to question it!

I remember some Christians coming in to our school to tell us that abortion is murder. This was in a non-denominational state secondary...

one of the absolute joys of being an atheist or freethinker is being able to chill, observe, and sometimes laugh in wide eyed wonder at the indoctrinated. And that's all you needed to have done.
I just shrug and get on with my life, some choose to live by this shit, others dont, just the way it is and always will be.

We had this with our boys, we just discussed it and always always encouraged an objective viewpoint, not being biased either way on anything and fostered individual choice. They have happily grown into well balanced thinkers able to accept everyone has their own take on this life.
It's a bit unfair to blame the school, if you object to it that strongly you could have withdrawn participation in the nativity play.

We withdrew our son once from an overtly religious gathering organised by the school (harvest festival at local church), but he participated in educational trips to Mosques, and Churches. He was also in a nativity play.

Save up all your energy for worrying about your kids in a few years time, Ben, when they start giving you real cause for worry.

Junior went through secular school so he's never been to a nativity and is atheist/agnostic. However today he's attending the Christian funeral of a kid he skied with. The young man died of exposure after doing a runner barefoot from home in a state somewhat altered by substance abuse.

Perspective, eh.

[i]And that's patent nonsense. If you think that Christmas is actually anything to do with religion for many (most?) people in modern day Britain you're deluding yourself.[/i]

It's nothing to do with religion for people that aren't bothered, but if you're a bit, you know, radical in you're anti god/anti religion stance then I would have thought you would be bothered.

which seems a strange choice for a secular school to have made.

One more time for the hard of understanding

NOT a secular school. Religion is not excluded from the curriculum.
Non-denominational school - pupils of all religions are welcomed and encouraged to follow their own individual faiths.

Not the same thing.

Non-denominational school - pupils of all religions are welcomed and encouraged to follow their own individual faiths.

Which means treating all faiths (and none) equally. That's not what happened here.

Which means treating all faiths (and none) equally. That's not what happened here.

So you would withdraw you complaint if they invite a Rabbi at passover to talk and a Imam after Ramadan? Not sure who comes to talk after the celebration of the teapot happens....

Which means treating all faiths (and none) equally. That's not what happened here.

Absolutely agree. As a dyed in the wool C of S Christian, I agree that the minister in your case was a bit naughty. He was encouraging all the wee proddy weans in their faith and got a wee bit carried away.
You've absolutely got a point.
You've just went off on one a bit about. Chill out.
It's Christmas after all.

So you would withdraw you complaint if they invite a Rabbi at passover to talk and a Imam after Ramadan? Not sure who comes to talk after the celebration of the teapot happens....

There is a much simpler solution.

Wow! 5 pages in 1 hour... it's like christmas has come early (small c).

Spent all my education at Catholic schools, now don't follow any religion. Don't worry about it too much. But I do get your point.

I was quite heartened recently when I heard my 11 yo repeat my oft said qualifier; after saying "Oh my God!" -she followed up with "other fairytales are available"

So you would withdraw you complaint if they invite a Rabbi at passover to talk and a Imam after Ramadan?

Bet they don't though, eh? (Let them present their version of the fairytale as FACT to the children, that is).

Except they do though.

My kids have had talks from rabbi's, imams etc presenting their version of what they believe the "facts" are to them.

Explaining this to my kids has been easy

I think the head teacher organises it wind up the the headteacher of the RC school that shares the same building in a mixed campus school.

Explaining to my kids why they wear different uniforms and can't mix in the same building and in the same playground with the kids who were their friends at nursery because their version of Jesus is the same but different. That was hard.

My kids have had talks from rabbi's, imams etc presenting their version of what they believe the "facts" are to them.

On a seperate but related note; why is there never an atheist on 'thought for the day'? Is it that spiritualists have the monopoly on moralising and 'makes you think' moments?

Gary_M - Member
I don't believe in god so you can't have a present? Good one.

If you want to educate your kids properly then yes that's the stance you should be taking. So rather than being a bit mamby pamby and outraged at religion being mentioned at school you should have had that touch conversation with the kid. 'Sorry we don't believe in religion junior so you're not getting a present today.'

Best not educate then in the reasons it's on the 25th then. The Roman Pagan festival of Saturnalia, gifts and food were forced upon one person (nominated the Lord of Misrule) in each community who was seen as the enemy of the Roman empire in the days running upto the 25th. On the 25th they sacrificed them believing that it killed the evil spirits with them.

Might not want presents then :-p

On a seperate but related note; why is there never an atheist on 'thought for the day'? Is it that spiritualists have the monopoly on moralising and 'makes you think' moments?

But everyone know Christmas is about the baby jesus, that's what kids are taught in school.

But everyone know Christmas is about the baby jesus, that's what kids are taught in school.

TBH if you go back far enough I suspect you get back to the Neanderthal "it's the middle of winter, Uggg and Grrahh in the next cave have run out of food, lets share some" festival.

In the grand scheme of things, the baby Jesus is pretty modern.

why is there never an atheist on 'thought for the day'?

Is presenting the nativity story as truth any different to teaching the story of creation as such?

On a seperate but related note; why is there never an atheist on 'thought for the day'? Is it that spiritualists have the monopoly on moralising and 'makes you think' moments?

From the BBC "Thought for the Day is a slot for reflections on topical matters from the perspective of a religious faith".

So that one's explained.

Which means treating all faiths (and none) equally. That's not what happened here.

You will likely find that most faiths don't mind other faiths being and doing what other faiths are and do.

It seems to be primarily the radical [note: NOT all] atheists that get most bothered by any of this stuff.

Like whoever it was that said on the forum the other day how proud they were of themselves for having refused to sing Christmas carols when they were in primary school.

I mean really? If you're an atheist, I think it shouldn't matter all that much.

Even the illustrious Richard Dawkins said about that commercial using the Lord's Prayer that got banned from cinemas this year that banning it was utterly ridiculous. I believe his exact words were: 'If someone is going to get offended by a prayer, then they deserve to be offended.'

Get over yourself.