You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
From the Morzine talk to me Facebook page
16yr old hunter shot and killed a 40yr old riding down Super M yesterday.
So Sad
R I P
🙁
Just been reading the Facebook page. Jeeesus I didn't realise this went on. Sounds like an absolutely ridiculous situation, literally like riding through a live firing range!!!
Was it intentional ?
Doesn't seem to read like it was intentional but near misses seem a regular thing.
Blimey, that’s horrible for all involved.
It seems the anti-hunt folk in France have a much bigger task on their hands than over here.
Link ?
I can't imagine how this could happen, Silverthorne mistook him for a deer ?! Or the rider rode across hunters firing line the exact second he hired. Really? Surely the hunting should be in areas where there is no riders or walkers. Is this a real story? Seems such a remote chance if people were behaving sensibly
https://m.facebook.com/groups/133652130008056?view=permalink&id=2134815859891663
I think its genuine as others were asking about helicopter activity near Super M yesterday evening
Seems such a remote chance if people were behaving sensibly
Far too common - most hunters are old, stupid, drunk (pick any two from three) and have a cavalier attitude to safety, firing at anything that moves whether they can see it or not. This includes each other, themselves and their dogs!
It's normally Dogs mistaken for wolves that are the most common victims of the Hunt
English guy apparently
Only too common here in France.
Marc from Wild Beets in Les Gets according to that Facebook link. Really awful for all concerned.
Tragic, hunters do tend to like their red wine. I was out walking in the mountains yesterday and heard some very close gunfire. It's the hunting season and the alcohol does cloud the hunters judgement. That and the hunting dogs who go for anything.
Maybe enough of a wake-up to ban this event and those who like to kill animals for entertainment, although I doubt it uunortunately.
The thought that its socially ok to walk around public access land with a loaded weapon you intend to use after a drink or seven if quite frankly horrific. 16yr old hunter in this case though - you'd hope if was immaturity/inexperience rather than being intoxicated. You'd hope.
A shocker of a way to pop your clogs.
and those who like to kill animals for entertainment, although I doubt it uunortunately.
Agreed but unfortunately there's still lots of psychopaths around.
Seems like the usual madness. The hunters have probably been shooting there long before the MTB set turned up. The bikers will know about the hunting so assuming the dead guy (being local) wasn't ignoring a risk and thought it was a no shooting area. Probably the hunter's fault and the anti hunt brigade will be out in force. The only way the shooting will stop is if the towns think their income will be affected if they see bikers staying away.
Eddie, you should be setting your shot up, so that it doesn't pass over tracks that other people may be using and you should ALWAYS know exactly where your round is going to land and if it misses the target, it should not continue on for hundreds of meters. You use your surrounding geography as a backstop.
If that means you can't bag your deer, then so be it.
The cyclist won't be in the wrong here, hunters have a duty of care.
Need to wait for further info before passing judgement.
I agree totally Raybanwomble. I don't know the circumstances yet so will comment no more.
This is really sad. I spend a month a year in France and I never considered this as a danger and im usually somewhere much further off the beaten track than Morzine, something to think about in the future.
There's no way you'd get the restrictions in huntung in France that we have here it's engrained in their culture. You only have to go to a Decathlon in France to see it.
Ive always had a hatred for the combination of French Hunters and Farmers since the sole Brown Bear that had been re-introduced into the Pyrenees was ‘accidentally’ shot by Hunters.
Accident my ass.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-french-alps-shooting-brit-13415256
Well according to the Mirror it's the riders fault cuz he was speeding through woods on a well known track in low light.
Well according to the Mirror it’s the riders fault cuz he was speeding through woods on a well known track in low light.
You took that from the article . Really?
Hope the shooter goes to prison, if nothing else to deter the other reprobates that run around shooting things with guns in public areas
Absolutely tragic and my thoughts are with this poor chap and his loved ones and friends. To think he nipped out for a quick spin and ended up fatally shot really beggars belief.
I went hunting in France back in the 90s and it was a complete farce. I'm an experienced shooter and have years of hunting experience. What I witnessed back then was outrageous. A plastic one litre bottle of red in the cartridge bag was mandatory. Nobody checked the backstop of their shot and they shot anything; song thrushes, finches - anything that moved. In fact, I tell a lie. I recall towards the end of la chasse, a group of them opened up on a fridge that had been left at the roadside! Safety ? Boff.
Tpbiker the opening sentence "A British mountain biker has been shot dead by a hunter in the French Alps as he sped through "thick" woodland in fading light." - is purposely worded so as to lead the reader into assuming fault on the cyclists part.
They could have started with "A British mountain biker has been shot dead by a hunter, after the hunter fired in the vicinity of a well known path in low light".
But they didn't did they?
The article doesn't remotely apportion blame to the biker. Stop trying to twist the article to suit your agenda. It's not appropriate given the circumstances
They could have started with “A British mountain biker has been shot dead by a hunter, after the hunter fired in the vicinity of a well known path in low light”.
But they didn’t did they?
In these cases I'd generally assume very little thought went into the breaking news part and it is a version of the google translate press release from the local authorities rather than malice on the part of the journalist/sunday cover. The British press would not normally miss an opportunity to put the boot in to the french.
Tragic event and you can see exactly how it could have happened with the descriptions above. It was wild board hunting season opening in Finale when we were there, lots of clear signs and exclusions for certain days/areas so bikes and guns were not in the same place at the same time.
A quick Google suggests there are an average of 20 deaths and around 300 shooting injuries during the French hunting season per year . They include hunters , walkers , joggers , mushroom pickers and motorists .
Hunter, 22, in hospital with shock. Police looking at aggravated manslaughter.
British mountain biker shot dead in French hunting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45855897
It’s certainly not uncommon in the US for hunters to shoot at random movement in the forest assuming it’s a legit target, when it can be another hunter. Years ago I read in some American publication it was advisable to wear something brightly coloured, like an orange bandana around a hat, or camo with an underlying orange element to make yourself more visible to hunters, orange being the most visible colour and one that most wildlife can’t actually see. I knew hunters on the continent, and in places like Malta would happily shoot pretty much anything with wings, usually while drinking, but I hadn’t realised that French hunters were shooting in places with open public access.
Luckily Pinkbike comments are on the case now. ( Wait until they hear about Brexit and Jordan Peterson)
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/british-mountain-biker-shot-dead-in-morzine-by-hunter.html
This is awful news. I've walked in that wood this time last year (it's just above my place there) and heard the hunt coming through below me. Fortunately I had a bright orange coat that I dug out of my fluoro Alpkit Gordon, put it on quickly and changed my route to peel away from the hunt area. As I did I saw three deer come out of cover and cross the trail in front of me. I'm heading back out there next week to do some more walking, it's a lovely time of the year for it, it will be much sadder this season. Enjoying the peace of the mountains should never end this way.
Unfortunately the 'chasse' is a french institution, it would take a very brave mayor, let alone president, to try to take the local hunt on. We live an hour out from the Pyrenees and simply cannot ride in the countryside once the hunting season starts. Even wearing a hi viz doesn't work as they usually manage to shoot each other.
A friend was talking to a member of the local chasse and tried to suggest that it was a bit daft to allow short sighted old men, who have just drunk more than a few glasses of red with their lunch, to run around the countryside with a rifle. He was shocked that anyone would question such a thing..... 'No it is safe, I have only been shot once'
A neighbour found their car had been hit last year with a stray bullet.
Total madness but it won't change.
Saddening news rip to the family. But what utter tripe by the Mirror,as posted further up the person behind the trigger is at fault nothing more or less and should be charged to the full extent of the law. Utter stupidity caused this loss of life nothing more !
The article doesn’t remotely apportion blame to the biker. Stop trying to twist the article to suit your agenda. It’s not appropriate given the circumstances
Yes it does, although not directly - it's opening sentence is suggestive.
You sound like a defensive gun nut - at the end of the day, accidental deaths caused by hunters should not be happening. Full stop. You should not be shooting, if the conditions mean that you could make a mistake. You should not shoot unless you positively ID the target. Soldiers are held to a higher standard in warzones for ****s sake.
Yes it does, although not directly – it’s opening sentence is suggestive.
What, a vague whiff of your opinion as to the intent of the article to blame the rider, despite the rest of it laying out what they know so far which doesn't look at all good for the bloke with the gun.
As for the second half of your point has anybody disputed that? I don't see anyone blaming the rider or excusing the guy who shot him.
You think some who said...
Hope the shooter goes to prison, if nothing else to deter the other reprobates that run around shooting things with guns in public areas
...is a defensive gun nut?
odd
What, a vague whiff of your opinion as to the intent of the article to blame the rider, despite the rest of it laying out what they know so far which doesn’t look at all good for the bloke with the gun.
Where does it suggest a bunch of reasons for why the hunter might have been the one in error?
The article doesn't, instead - it appropriates causation to the cyclist with 1) Speeding 2) thick woods 3) dusk - these facts are being included because the paper thinks that these were contributing factors. Sure they might be quoting an official I guess, but it still sounds a lot like blame to me. There are no causative factors attributed to the hunter.
The only good bit in that article is the bit stating that a man was gored to death by a cornered deer!
****ing pissing about firing guns in open areas where normal people are hanging out and actually taking part in other activities is just utterly ****ing stupid and I genuinely can't believe it goes on but it clearly does!
The young hunter, who reportedly went into "deep shock" after realising what had happened, is now being investigated for 'aggravated manslaughter'.
"[The biker] is thought to have died instantly after being hit by a bullet fired by a 22-year-old hunter," said an investigating source.
"The accident happened on Saturday evening in thick woods close to the ski resort of Montriond, at about 6pm.
"The shooter went into deep shock when he realised what he had done. He now faces trial and prison."
The source added that the incident occurred close to a 6.50pm sundown, with dozens of paramilitary police officers descending on the area.
Note the first 2 lines are quoted from an "investigating source" which is probably the police.
His death is the latest in a series of shooting tragedies involving passersby being killed or severely wounded during France’s hunting season, which started last month.
On this occasion, up to 18 hunters were taking part in a shooting event when the rider sped down a wooded path, according to the investigating source.
The hunter - who has also not been named - apparently failed to notice the man, who is said to have been wearing bright clothes.
"He was on a popular and well used track, although it was hard to get to and would not have been very busy as darkness approached," said the source.
"It may be that he was mistaken for a fast moving animal."
Again quoting directly from the source, so may have some translation issues but it's clear they guy should not have shot him
Tragically, the hunter fired at the biker, killing him. Following the incident, the suspect was admitted to hospital suffering from "severe shock".
This meant he could not immediately be interviewed or charged.
Prosecutors in Thonon have now opened an enquiry into ‘aggravated manslaughter’, with a full investigation into the incident "in progress".
If convicted of the charge, the suspect faces prison, a judicial source confirmed.
I'm nor sure why you think this is doing anything other than laying out the facts, and giving what info they have. Given most of it is direct quoting it's fairly procedural, somebody has tried to pull together a summary for the opening.
It explains that it was close to dark - fact, that the guy was moving quickly, was dressed in bright clothes, that the area was quiet. But nowhere that it was his fault for being there.
Also as I said above this is going to have been either translated by the paper or an English version of the french statement done by the one who speaks the best English on Duty on a Sunday night in Morzine.
Let me see -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/14/british-man-shot-dead-by-hunter-in-france
The Grauniad managed to report it without mentioning speeding cyclists....even the Daily Heil managed to stop short of banging on about speeding cyclists this time, as far as they go is to directly quote a source that mentions low light.
The Grauniad managed to report it without mentioning speeding cyclists…
...the first line of the guardian article is...
A 34-year-old Briton has been shot dead by a hunter as he sped down a wooded track on a mountain bike in the French Alps, officials have said.
...Compared to the mirror...
A British mountain biker has been shot dead by a hunter in the French Alps as he sped through "thick" woodland in fading light.
...so not much difference aside fading light. I don't know why you're digging in on some stupid "suggestive" article point.
RIP to the mountain biker... sad news indeed
My mistake I guess -
I still ****ing hate the wording used in some of these articles.
It is 100 % the hunter fault They must not shoot if they can't see.
In my area they must put signs up at the start of each tracks to say they are hunting there.
Lots of accidents every year . Last year a grandfather shot dead his grandson.
Does their love of blazing away with shooters from Sept explain why they close the lifts early?
What a mess though, it’s not like the Alps is a small place, can’t they hunt away from people?
A few years ago, riding in Finale Ligure our run down to the accommodation above Calice we passed through a line of hunters most nights on the Roller Coaster trail. Apparently, they were after wild boar. It was a bit disconcerting right enough when you here of this.
They heard me with the hope pro 2 hubs right enough 🙂
I guess we could mass spam the Morzine tourism office, to enquire whether we should be wearing bullet resistant body armour from now on - instead of downhill armour. The threat of a loss in tourism income is probably the best way to sort this.
You sound like a defensive gun nut
You have formed that opinion based on what exactly?? The fact I thought the article was stating fact in exactly the same way as the guardian did in your link?
Or was it the fact I went on to state clearly the shooter should go to prison
Do you actually read stuff before forming an opinion?
FYI.. I personally think that it's ridiculous that you can shoot a gun in a publicly accessible place, guns should be banned for public use. You don't need to hunt to eat in France.. It's a blood sport, nothing more. Feel free to interpret that however you want as well
I've been to morzine several times and never realised this was even a risk.
Yeah, sorry Tpbiker - you aren't.
All good fella.. I think we are both on the same side of the argument on this one
It will make me think twice about the French alps as a biking destination again tbh. Is this confined to a set period of the year, of is drunken Frenchies blasting anything that moves a year round pastime?
Guardian article mentions that it is 2 weeks since another hunter was jailed for shooting a trail runner dead with a single shot to the head.
Around 20 deaths per year in France, apparently, which included people in their gardens.
From thelocal.fr
<i>ARCHIVE Photo: AFP Picture dated 29 August 1996 of 90-year-old Anna Chaillard, still an active boar hunter walking with her dog Titi in the surroundings of Huanne, central France.</i>
I think it's a bad idea to allow any non professional leisure use of firearms in public spaces. If you want to shoot guns, go and do it in a closed, indoor range.
The words ‘ hunting tradition’ keeps coming up in articles, which is the standard excuse for continuing the practice of something which belongs in the past..
In fact is there any tradition which is worthwhile? Im struggling to think of one...?
The words hunting tradition should be preceded with a c not a h! I still can't believe it goes on!
I've no problem with hunting for food or controlling numbers, if there is a level of satisfaction/enjoyment taken in that pursuit, then that's fine with me also. Just like fishing for me.
However something is very wrong with the rules and regulations if this sort of thing happens regularly, looks like there has been plenty chances in the past where something could have been done to avoid this death. Tragic.
Eddie, you should be setting your shot up, so that it doesn’t pass over tracks that other people may be using and you should ALWAYS know exactly where your round is going to land and if it misses the target, it should not continue on for hundreds of meters. You use your surrounding geography as a backstop.
If that means you can’t bag your deer, then so be it.
The cyclist won’t be in the wrong here, hunters have a duty of care.
@ryanwomble - You've not been to France in hunting season then!
edit - I agree with you about the wording of the Mirror article, it does seem to make you infer a certain point of view.
Around 20 deaths per year in France, apparently, which included people in their gardens.
I awoke early one morning at my in laws in the Perigord to find a man in the back garden about to shoot a cat.
I asked him what he was doing (it was obvious, so I deserved the reply), which was " i'm shooting a cat".
Upon further inquiries in pigeon french, I think he said that he hadn't asked permission because he didn't want to wake anyone up. He was holding a shotgun!!!
In the two years I've lived here I have only once seen warning signs for the chasse.
They do have rules about when and where they can hunt, but like a lot of laws in France, a lot of French people don't think they apply to them.
You would think that during the height of summer and in an area recognised as being used by folk on bikes, you should be ok. But I always wear something bright and if I can, I check the area out first for small white vans and the sound of dogs barking.
We’re recently back from a week with the guys at Riviera-which coincided with the start of the hunting season. It was a total eye opener. While we were there a 19year old boy was killed whilst walking his dog by a guy hunting for wild boar. The most extraordinary thing is no one seemed to be that bothered about it-just like it was an everyday occurrence. Delving into just how many people are killed in France and Italy every year made me realise one thing....I’m so glad we had guides who, knowing the locals were keeping us well out of the shoot areas. There’s no way I’d be riding those forested trails solo during hunting season, no matter how awesome they are.
We’re recently back from a week with the guys at Riviera-which coincided with the start of the hunting season.
We went out there a few years ago and I thought it was shocking how many spirit bottles where surrounding every hunt shelter/vantage point we passed.
Thankfully they steered us well clear of any areas where they were shooting.
We’re recently back from a week with the guys at Riviera-which coincided with the start of the hunting season
Not being hunting season doesn’t seem to bother them. Out riding in the woods near the in laws, I came across a group of armed and drunk gentlemen who all stopped talking and stared at me. I said Bon matin and rode off as fast as my fil’s early 90s Giant (coldrock?) would go, in a zig zag pattern just to be on the safe side? You know they aren’t going to do anything to you because you have seen them hunting out of season but your imagination goes into overdrive, in a kind of ‘Le Deliverance’ kind of way!
Full osprey vests and kevlar lids for the interseason riding then.
My brother used to live in the Charente region and used to ride with the local school teacher. The school teacher used to ride around singing in woodlands because he said the Chasse would shoot anything that moves.
'Soyons Tous Prudent' is often the mantra and on the signs it's 'Soyez Prudent' : It's always interested me how I am told to be careful by an old guy with a gun.....but that's how it is.
Unfortunately they have just halved the cost of the licence...a move to keep voters on board....did I say that?.....
Anyway, the mayor of Montriond has just banned hunting...momentarily.....which is interesting...
Article in the Dauphine Libere reports all this then has an editorial type comment at the end which could be construed as saying it wasn't the hunters fault: "No exact advice but just a question of common sense whilst the hunt is open"
From the Dauphine Libere website: a poll
A tragic accident occurred on Saturday in the town of Montriond, while a fight was organized by a handful of members ACCA (Association communal hunting official) of Montriond. mountain biker down a track at the edge of a wood was fatally shot by a 22-year-old hunter. Should we ban hunting on weekends? share your opinion
78% said yes to the ban.
(Google translate by the way...)
It's not as if they manage to shoot many boar either!! Friends husband goes twice a week (most teachers are only at school 4 days a week in France) during the season and judging by how little meat is in their freezer spends all day drinking and walking the dogs with his mates.
I’ve come across hunters in the woods, in the Charente a couple of years ago - bloody scary it was.
I’d entered the woods on little piece of singletrack and was about 1km in before I spotted them. Weirdly they were all wearing high viz! I was in all in black on my black Rumblefish so not as visible as them.
I made a serious amount of noise - (good job I have a bell), much to their disgust and went hell for leather out of there, down through the main track. At the exit on the main track there was guy sitting in his car blocking the track with signs advising the hunters were in the woods.
Apparently round by us they can’t hunt on a Wednesday afternoon as that is school half-day.
Kinda curtails the riding from Oct to Feb a little bit.
The a previous case that sets precedent for this is a 1 year jail sentence that was just handed out to a hunter in similar circumstance, whether or not that is fair or not I am not sure as it sounds like the shooter is going to have a much harsher sentence in his own head for the rest of his life on top of any custodial one.
RIP to the rider, hopefully this might be the straw that breaks the camels back and brings about some change. It's a stupid thing to have happening and probably many lives ruined from a single shot.
Guys,
Let's keep comments on track. I feel we are verging into unecessary, insulting and inappropriate terrain.
Has the guy been named?
Is he "one of us"?
I feel we are verging into unecessary, insulting and inappropriate terrain.
AKA France
Hunting goes on all over the Med; my agent in Cyprus proudly showed me his photos of all the songbirds he had blasted out of the trees, lined up on the ground.
Wasn't there a French or Italian pro cyclist who was also shot while hunting some years ago?
Is he “one of us”?
He was was named on Welsh news last night.
I’m finding this thread to be STW at its distasteful worst. There are likely to be people on here who knew him - have some respect.
I feel we are verging into unecessary, insulting and inappropriate terrain.
Where's the harm in a little casual racism?? Mind you, if these comments were made about coloured people there would be outrage..................
Where’s the harm in a little casual robust historical analysis?
Fixed that for you :p
But yes, inappropriate now.
Doesn't just happen in France. I stopped at road junction in the Chilterns once, and was mildly alarmed when I found out I was one field away from an advancing shoot driving pheasants my way! No signs anywhere*Got moving pretty bloody quickly when shot started to land on my helmet!
Fixed that for you :p
No you haven't you are still a racist little sh1t promoting pathetic stereotypes......
No signs anywhere*Got moving pretty bloody quickly when shot started to land on my helmet!
By the time the shot is coming down like that it's fairly harmless, they will also be aiming skywards not along the floor or into woods.
Brexit will keep us safe.
Mike, oh for sure, I didn't even realise what it was at first, and it wasn't until a shot literally bounced off my helmet onto the road in front of me that I realised what it was. Still didn't hang about though!