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It's shit, isn’t it?
I literally feel sick at the thought of opening my emails when I've been off.
Since I changed roles it has improved slightly but I wish it every email sent to me during my leave would disappear into a black hole, never to be seen. Send the mail but schedule the sending .... it's not hard to do
It as bad as after two week’s leave.
What is better is being able to give two week's notice…
Yeah, today is my first day back from a couple of weeks scuba diving in the Philippines, and while diving isn't the most taxing of activities, I have still been active every day, and after a long journey home I am feeling tired and jet lagged so not looking forward to getting back to the grind today.
Since I changed roles it has improved slightly but I wish it every email sent to me during my leave would disappear into a black hole, never to be seen.
On my out of office message I state that if it is important they should contact me again after I return. After two weeks I will probably have about 500 emails in my inbox, most of which are not at all important, I can only skim through and make a quick judgment about which ones I really need to deal with, so it is important to put some responsibility back onto the sender to follow up as well.
I actually like my job and the people there, but I know I'm going back to a busy week so I spent time last night skimming emails, just to take the shine off a week's leave
It's compounded by my missus going back today too; She hates her job and she likes to make sure we're all well aware...
I liked being off with the kids, can't help feeling like work takes too much of our time and energy sometimes.
I used to work with a guy who deleted everything unread in his return. The thinking was, if it was time critical, it would have been resolved and if it was important, they would chase him later but all the pointless fluff and CCS would be gone.
I enjoy my work so it's not really much of an issue. The only thing really is that I know I'm going to be really busy going through loads of stuff and catching up.
It's as shit as returning each week after no leave as well!
I like to make everyone fully aware of the fact that I have just one day of AL to take between start of Jan and end of march. Sick of it, need a break from it.
Anyway, I worked with someone who set his out of office to say "I am off until xx/xx/xx, I will delete all emails on my return. If it's important, email me on xx/xx/xx."
I delete emails when i get back after holidays. Have done for nearly 20 years.
Current out of office reads something like:-
"I will be out of office until xx/xx, emails received before then will not be read, anything urgent and/or important contact A, B or C, or my manager, D.
Otherwise, please contact me after my return."
My manager has the same out of office, as does his boss. And most of my colleagues.
I don't put any contact details for anyone, as if they are important enough to send me urgent or important requests, they'll know exactly who A,B,C and D are, and how to find them. And if it's urgent, at least one of them will be CC'ed on the mail already.
So i get back and put the ~1000 mails a week that i currently get into a folder (called Easter holiday or something) and leave it alone until someone contacts me about an email they sent monday last week.
This was driven by an interesting 3 years i spent as design/development team lead on a major component that was included in all but 2 live projects in the company. So i could quite literally get 500+ emails some days.
A two week holiday would get me 3-4000 emails. Of which about 20 would be warnings about my inbox capacity...
I used to work with a guy who deleted everything unread in his return. The thinking was, if it was time critical, it would have been resolved and if it was important, they would chase him later but all the pointless fluff and CCS would be gone.
I think it is BMW that has a company wide policy of all emails being auto deleted if out of office is on for more that a few days. The business works on the theory that it's it's important then it needs to be dealt with whilst you are away. If it's not important then the sender can contact you when you get back.
I never quite understand the mentality of I sent you an email so its now your problem. I tell my team the problem or issue remains with them until the other person has positively acknowledged they will deal with the request, even then they may still have responsibility for chasing.
Like others I skim on return. I find out of office helps, especially for longer periods away, a lot of what I get is urgent not important so will need sorting before I return. That just leaves the monotonous round robin emails some departments seem to send copying in everyone hoping some one will bite or to act as a cover when they say 3 weeks later you were sent an email (usually CCd along with 30,other people).
I've realised I've taken very little leave since 1st September and still have about 25 days not 'committed' !
“I will be out of office until xx/xx, emails received before then will not be read, anything urgent and/or important contact A, B or C, or my manager, D.
Otherwise, please contact me after my return.”
This works for emails where someone is after something from you - but some of my inbox is where I want something from someone else. They're not going to send it to me again when I'm back.
I never quite understand the mentality of I sent you an email so its now your problem.
I think that's a lot of the dynamic of work these days though - projects take a long time to complete, so everyone now breaks a project down into ticking off little steps, of "OK, I've done my bit, now it's your problem". Tbh I wonder whether the emailing back and forth actually *is* a large part of the perceived progress of a lot of projects. That's why stuff always gets sent on a Friday afternoon - "I need to clear my to do pile and make it someone else's problem for a few days"
I have setup my email box rules to send anything I'm CC'd on into a "CC emails" folder, and anything I'm on the To line goes to a "To emails" folder. Assuming everyone knows how emails are supposed to work and anything I'm on a To email requires my action, anything CC is for reference only. It makes coming back from holiday so much easier to handle, and even day to day stuff is easier to focus on what really needs my attention or action. I work from the To folder, and the CCs maybe get read at the end of the week, Anyone who's too stupid to know the To/ CC rules quickly finds out when I don't reply to them for a week or so. In peak working periods I can be getting 200-300 emails a day and being able to easily filter them at the outset makes my life so much easier. Although if people could stop CC'ing me into any old crap, it would be even better
I never quite understand the mentality of I sent you an email so its now your problem
It's a syndrome well known to afflict many many people in my place of work:
Slopus-shoulderus
Currently, apparently, no known cure.
This works for emails where someone is after something from you – but some of my inbox is where I want something from someone else. They’re not going to send it to me again when I’m back.
Nah, in that case it'll appear as part of the email chain in my outbox, even if it's in a random archive folder. And it's probably got a follow up flag on it anyway.
(Also sort To/CC, doesn't everyone?)
I'm reluctant to even take sick leave unless it's absolutely desperate, projects don't stop, deadlines don't extend, lord knows nobody else covers for you while you're away, so upon your return from being ill you're suddenly faced with catching up on X number of days work.
Worse yet it when you suspect stress at work is why you're ill half the time, good old self perpetuating cycle... 🙄
For those that happily delette everything sent whilst on leave, what about those tasks that have been asked for when you're back up and running - would you expect your management and or other collegaues to remember to chase/remind you as i bet you dont like that either?
I agree broadly with the sentiment that emails are used too much, but throwing the cat out with the bathwater doesn't help anyone.
Another top tip: Switch to conversation view. It makes it much easier to handle
It's the worst, emails are the scourge of modern society in my opinion - as covered above, lots of people seem to think sending an email absolves them of all responsibility. I was recently out of the country for 10 days, spent a week working extra hours and putting in extra effort to get caught up before I went, then dreaded opening my emails so did some the night before I was back in the office, and then spent a week catching up again. I'm very much looking forward to jacking it in ASAP and doing a job with no emails.
I've had the last 6 weeks off due to ill health. I'm supposed to be back today but woke up in enough pain that I needed to take 60mg of codeine so am giving myself a couple of hours to get past the floaty stage before I log on to work.
I love / hate my job, I think it will take me a week or 2 to get back into it properly. 6 weeks will be at least 50k emails, I'll scan through for anything sent to me by a few big hitters then ignore the rest, leaving them in situ so the search function can find them later if needed
For those that happily delette everything sent whilst on leave, what about those tasks that have been asked for when you’re back up and running – would you expect your management and or other collegaues to remember to chase/remind you as i bet you dont like that either?
"Delete" is probably overstating it, i just stick them in a folder and ignore them.
If someone wants me to do something, and they send me a mail while i'm on holiday, they can either read my out of office (these things cut both ways, don't send me a mail and assume i'll do the work, at least wait for a response, even if it's a "no".), or contact me when i'm back.
I’m reluctant to even take sick leave unless it’s absolutely desperate, projects don’t stop, deadlines don’t extend, lord knows nobody else covers for you while you’re away, so upon your return from being ill you’re suddenly faced with catching up on X number of days work.
You have a shit employer who has under resourced your team/dept, or you have an ineffective manager. Or both? If resource is down, it's the managers job to either push things back, delay deliveries, reduce scope etc.
I'm covering for a colleague on long term sick at the moment, so some of my less urgent tasks are now not being done. At all. Those impacted have been told, discussion is over. Some of those tasks get picked up by *other* colleagues as resource is freed up.
When he came back (25%) his inbox was all but empty, other than those three or four weeks while we reassigned and juggled stuff.
I was off last week. We were wandering around in the Lakes in the rain and it was great.
Started today with a job interview and now I'm at my desk wasting time on here.
I don't hate my job but there's enough work for 2 people and I've got no chance of getting any help.
I know I’m going back to a busy week so I spent time last night skimming emails, just to take the shine off a week’s leave
It’s compounded by my missus going back today too; She hates her job and she likes to make sure we’re all well aware…
I liked being off with the kids, can’t help feeling like work takes too much of our time and energy sometimes.
Parallel lives - I actually hate my job more than MrsMC hates hers, but i can't get a word in edgeways.
I have taken four weeks off over summer for the last couple of years which, after about a lifetime of only taking ten days or, max, two weeks, was a huge culture shock. I wasn't just sleeping or getting drunk from breakfast onwards, but wasn't pushing myself to the limits doing physical stuff either.
Still, getting back to the everyday grind/BS after that was difficult. I need to read most of the mails that I get, but you can see when some of them are the sort that just need a specialist on the thread for CMA purposes.
Used to do a lot of work in a previous job with ze Germans.
One particular organisation (Damiler Benz commercial engines I think it might have been, or maybe ZF) had a fantastic mandatory out of office policy. Basically
Thank you for your email, I am currently on annual leave. My colleages Hans und Karl will be happy to answer your query if it is urgent. Your email has now been automatically deleted.
Perfect workplace efficiency.
sort by topic, read first and last in the chain, delete everything else in between.
My deleted items doesn't empty so if I've missed something I can get it back, I empty it monthly a month at a time with 3 months buffer in there, so currently has deleted stuff from Nov/Dec/Jan and part of Feb; end of Feb all of Nov can go too. If it's before then, I assume done or no longer important.
My colleages Hans und Karl will be happy to answer your query if it is urgent
I don't think I would risk it
I tend to read the last email on each topic. My favorite was about twenty years ago which read 'please disregard my previous emails John has not died'
I’m reluctant to even take sick leave unless it’s absolutely desperate, projects don’t stop, deadlines don’t extend, lord knows nobody else covers for you while you’re away, so upon your return from being ill you’re suddenly faced with catching up on X number of days work.
You have a shit employer who has under resourced your team/dept, or you have an ineffective manager. Or both? If resource is down, it’s the managers job to either push things back, delay deliveries, reduce scope etc.
Or they know full well that you're daft enough to do the work of two people so why would they bother hiring another body. What happens to all those unmissable deadlines with no-one covering for you if you had the misfortune to spend an extended period of time in hospital? What if you handed in your notice tomorrow? If a project has a single point of failure, it's a bad project.
I'm so glad I don't need email for my job.... I'm far too analogue.
Not worked-worked for a while now... Like ~16 months.
Helped a mate with his house for two months before December which was more just hanging around with a mate than it was work.
Actually looking forward to going back into the workshop in summer.
What happens to all those unmissable deadlines with no-one covering for you if you had the misfortune to spend an extended period of time in hospital?
A few years ago I was in hospital having ablations for atrial fibrillation. They decided to keep me in for a couple of extra days so I phoned my line manager to tell him I would be off work for the extra time, he told me he needed me to come up with plans for how they should cope when I am not there, my reply was even more abrupt than usual "**** off and do your job you useless lazy ****".
I don't know where all these idealized workplaces exist that people mention in these types of threads, workplaces where staff get recruited when the workload is too high, where managers work to assist the workforce, even when "looking for a new job" threads come up there seams to be a mythical land where managers read all CV's and don't care about direct experience as much as "transferable skills". Honestly if that is your workplace you don't know how lucky you are, because that is not the normal working experience for 99.99999% of the population.
I never quite understand the mentality of I sent you an email so its now your problem.
I sent you an email so my back is covered.
I sent you am email so it's off my desk and I can go on hols.
I sent you a email and somewhere buried in paragraph 19 is the reason why I actually sent you it. Happy hunting.
I sent you an email to share my pain.
I sent you an email because Teams is just so intrusive...
I could go on. I was on leave week before last and have so far dealt with the "exclamation mark" emails and I hope those from very important people. I get about 100 a day. Most of which are distracting from the actual work, let alone any kind of strategic look to the future / view across the team or whatever. I'm increasingly unembarrassed about replying with "sorry I didn't see your first email."
I don’t know where all these idealized workplaces exist that people mention in these types of threads, workplaces where staff get recruited when the workload is too high, where managers work to assist the workforce, even when “looking for a new job” threads come up there seams to be a mythical land where managers read all CV’s and don’t care about direct experience as much as “transferable skills”.
It's probably 75% of the employers i've had. Never work in aerospace, they were the worst. Trying to get me to do fulfil a role two grades up from my actual grade, despite refusing me a promotion or payrise, and me being in the bottom 20% of the pay bracket. And continue my existing role.
60% rise to the next job. Which was ALMOST fully resourced, and where it wasn't, stuff was reprioritised and delayed, with management suport.
Honestly if that is your workplace you don’t know how lucky you are, because that is not the normal working experience for 99.99999% of the population.
Lots of shit employers out there, especially in the USA mark II that the UK is becoming.
If it's not arrived as a teams chat or slack message it can't be important.
Simples.
Lots of shit employers out there, especially in the USA mark II that the UK is becoming.
Over on LinkedIn, you can always tell whether a poster is from the UK or the US. The US ones are all full of BS about "going the extra mile" if you want to have any hope of succeeding, and variations thereof.
There's a difference between working hard and working an extra 20 hours a week for free. Salaries are considerably higher - I have a friend in Chicago who earns more money than I ever have, she in her own words "waxes vaginas for a living" - but stuff we take for granted like sick pay, paid leave etc etc is rare. There's the small matter of not having to pay $400 for an asthma inhaler too, healthcare is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.
I have a friend in Chicago who earns more money than I ever have, she in her own words “waxes vaginas for a living”
Damn my old school careers adviser!
I work four days on, four days off, it's bad enough going in after those four days.
Some colleagues job share meaning four on 12 off, that twelfth day must be bitter sweet.
I literally feel sick at the thought of opening my emails when I’ve been off.
This has been my life for the last 3 years. I've been unable to enjoy weekends because by Saturday night I'm already thinking about Sunday being the day before I go back to work.
I was off sick with shingles a couple of weeks ago. I probably could have worked if I'm honest. Just had no motivation to do so.
I went back in last Monday and I've handed in my notice. It's not as dramatic as it sounds because I was due to retire in a couple of months anyway so all I've done is bring it forward a bit.
The feeling of weight being lifted off my shoulders is real. I will continue to work in some capacity as I'll only be 55 but I don't care what at. At least I'll have a pension so won't need to put up with the s***e on a daily basis. I cannot wait.
Actually an article in the Guardian about this kind of feeling:
TLDR - shorter breaks might be better for you that one long one
Various things are causing me to give less of a **** about work including receiving my sales quota today after a day off on Friday. Life feels against me currently.
Before reading Breatheasy's link ^^ I'm already decided on maximising my downtime, which feels hard because I'm naturally/conditioned to be like the bloke on the prior page so to not focus on work feels like giving up being "successful".
Days out with the kids are time I'll never get back.
While I’ve had a couple of jobs that were less than ideal, none were managerial, I never had to deal with endless emails or stupid phone conversations, for which I’m thankful.
My last job certainly never had me regretting returning to work after a week off because of the shift system that was introduced. It did involve 12-hour days, but it wasn’t hard work or stressful, and I’d work five days, have four days off, work another five days, then I’d have five days off, work four days then have five days off. And repeat. Add on twenty-five days payed leave with a day off for ones birthday, and a Well-being Day off that could be taken anytime. Take four days payed leave and get three weeks holiday, if you wanted to.
The last year I was there involved applying the vinyl livery decals to motoring school cars, brilliant job and I absolutely loved it - great way to finally retire.
It’s shit, isn’t it?
not as shit as after 2 weeks when you’ve hat the chance to actually relax.
I sometimes think that just plodding on is easier than having a fun holiday. Though that only works as a single person.
I think it's pretty selfish and risky to delete or archive emails received while away.
It might work well for you short term, but be a net negative across the team and wider company. If you're responsible for teams and people, problems caused for others are probably your problem ultimately anyway. By reading something and saying something, you might be able to avoid a problem developing, or advise on better solutions etc. Maybe you'll miss out on some information or concern someone wanted to share with you, and then make bad decisions because you didn't know, and they didn't chase you up. etc etc
Also puts across a degree of self-importance - you contacted me but I'm in a position where I feel entitled and empowered to just delete it without even reading.
Back in on Monday after a week off. Also found out yesterday that there are going to be redundancies. Feel sick and stressed every Saturday evening knowing Sunday is coming and followed by Monday. This weekend is worse than usual.
It’s an odd position not wanting to lose your job even though it makes you feel shit. Really can’t afford to lose it. Sole earner with two young kids, a wife and a mortgage. No self esteem, so finding another job, let alone one that pays me what I earn now, is really stressing me out. Laid awake now worrying about it. Can’t quite believe this is what my life has come to
Maybe you’ll miss out on some information or concern someone wanted to share with you, and then make bad decisions because you didn’t know, and they didn’t chase you up.
an ex boss of mine had his Out of Message set to say that emails sent in his absence would be unread. He left alternative contacts if a response was needed before his return and if it could wait they were to email on his return.
bikesandbootsFull Member
I think it’s pretty selfish and risky to delete or archive emails received while away.
i wonder how many who say they do it actually do it.
Or if it’s one of those ‘I’m alpha important and look at me’ type statements, when secretly they are checking it every hour they are away. 😉
I think it’s pretty selfish and risky to delete or archive emails received while away.
As always, there’s an “it depends”. After a week off, I’ll read them, or at least scan read them, even though it can be several hundred if I’m on a busy project.
But once I was off for four weeks due to illness, and came back to over 5000, despite having an OOO that explained that I was going to be off for a considerable period and gave alternative contacts for every key part of the project. It would have taken me a week simply to read them all, and even then most were out of date and had been dealt with by the time I came back. In this case they all just got dumping in another folder, and I think I’ve still got them three years later although they have never been referred to.
With email storage space being effectively unlimited, I don’t see a need to delete, but I’m not alway going to read them.
i wonder how many who say they do it actually do it.
Me, have done for years. Across 4 or 5 employers i would guess.
Or if it’s one of those ‘I’m alpha important and look at me’ type statements, when secretly they are checking it every hour they are away. 😉
I don't even leave my phone on for long enough to get to the carpark. The only people who do, are those who use them for all their private communication as well. (i don't)
I think it’s pretty selfish and risky to delete or archive emails received while away.
Yes, it absolutely is selfish of management (or the company) to not have proper cover for people who are away from work.
I mean, i can't help it if you work for badly organised companies. If my place want me to read emails when i'm away from the office, and outside of normal working hours, they're going to need to give me a payrise.
If my place want me to read emails when i’m away from the office, and outside of normal working hours, they’re going to need to give me a payrise.
It's illegal in France...
https://www.good.is/Culture/france-lets-you-disconnect-rp
Back in on Monday after a week off. Also found out yesterday that there are going to be redundancies.
I don't work Fridays & to be fair get very few emails anyway (maybe 10 a day) but got a "there might be redundancies" email on Friday & anyone at risk will get a call today, I did wonder if they even considered my working hours when they sent it.. sadly I've been there ages & I think their plan is to not give me the pay rise I asked for in the hope I'd leave without having to pay me off, only time will tell 😕
Yes, it absolutely is selfish of management (or the company) to not have proper cover for people who are away from work.
I'm not talking about things that need covering. I'm taking about things that are someone's medium-term responsibilities, which they need to not miss out on information about, and possibly take follow-up actions to things that happened while they were away - that are on your own initiative rather than because someone asks.
My wife gets buried by emails , dreads the backlog. She took the 'nuke them' route and was promptly disciplined and placed on a warning, she was absolutely fuming but it did no good , gross misconduct !
'I think it’s pretty selfish and risky to delete or archive emails received while away.
It might work well for you short term, but be a net negative across the team and wider company. If you’re responsible for teams and people, problems caused for others are probably your problem ultimately anyway. By reading something and saying something, you might be able to avoid a problem developing, or advise on better solutions etc.'
I do this. I take a 3 week break every summer, as do most of the people I work with. I manage projects, and teams, and am in other teams and we do large budget things ( millions USD and up). I don't have time to go thro' all sorts of email back and forth, and if somwething needed to get done, it seems a bad idea to wait 20 days for an answer.
You need to plan and have a route for delegation setup - I cover for my bosses when he/she are away.
'I’m not talking about things that need covering. I’m taking about things that are someone’s medium-term responsibilities, which they need to not miss out on information about, and possibly take follow-up actions to things that happened while they were away – that are on your own initiative rather than because someone asks.'
Hmm, well you need to ask if anything interesting happened while you're away. How do you handle stuff that might have happened 2+ weeks ago?
TLDR – shorter breaks might be better for you that one long one
I dunno, I find everything gets left for me if I take a short break, but others have to deal with it if I'm off for a fortnight.
I’m taking about things that are someone’s medium-term responsibilities, which they need to not miss out on information about, and possibly take follow-up actions to things that happened while they were away – that are on your own initiative rather than because someone asks.
This is why you stick them in a folder elsewhere, earmarked for deletion, and have your email set to "conversation view". Then you can see all the responses to actual mails, you're actually interested in, in your inbox.