I like my home. I find that after a few weeks that compared with home wherever I am is too hot, too wild, too uncivilised, too noisy, too whatever and I feel like going home, so I do. After a month of walking it's time to give my body a break, same with cycling. Despite having all the time in the world I haven't spent more than six weeks away from home in all these years.
This week: Monday was a day off physically (the swimming pool was shut for maintainance) so I started a couple of new songs, Sylvia by Focus should be very time consuming. Tuesday I went for a jog with Madame and did some housework. Wednesday I dealt with some things in town then we went horse riding and shopping. Thursday I did Pau-Lourdes and back on the Chemin Henri IV MTB with some mates. Friday we went for an 18 km walk in the local hills. Saturday we went out with the MTB club. Today we're going horse riding and then maybe swimming as the pool is open again. Between times I've read, watched TV, browsed the net (often with a guitar in my hands), pottered in the garden, maintained stuff.
On the “how much is enough” question; a cornerstone of the Financial independence “movement” is based around the 4% rule. Whereby if you have 25x your annual expenditure invested, you can withdraw 4% of your pot each year, increasing with inflation and theoretically never run out of money again.
Doesn't work in the era of low interest rates
I go in three months at 51, instant pensioner due to one of the old pension schemes. Few months off then probably teacher training. Do that for a couple of years and then either start going part time or give up and retire
Or get dragged back into the corporate 9-5 if the offer is good enough
Difficult for people who have invested all their identity into the job which is many people.
Doesn’t work in the era of low interest rates
currently should be possible with Stocks, for the last 10 years my pension has earned more than me, so taking 4% a year would have been very possible. Obs, no guarantee that will continue.
for the last 10 years
Conveniently chosen period. Now try March 2000 to today:
https://www.onvista.de/index/FTSE-Index-1918069
Then consider inflation and the fact that the FTSE kicks out the underperforming companies and replaces them with ones on the up.
I sold my stock portfolio in March 2000 and have since invested in stocks, bonds and boring fixed interest things. They've all done about the same and barely better than inflation, in fact worse than inflation if you take house prices as the reference.
Conveniently chosen period. Now try March 2000 to today:
Well Nasdaq has doubled in value in that period (which is where most of my shares are), add in dividends and the fact I pay in continually and its been very profitable.
I do have some FTSE trackers, worst performing funds in my portfolio, luckily I only have about 15% in UK stocks.
I'll probably reduce my UK exposure even more before we crash out the EU at the end of the year.
And next month, or next year or when you hope to draw on these funds? There's a long history of pension funds, banks and countries going bankrupt. 🙂 I don't have a crystal ball but I do think that with current p/e ratios, management fees, bond yields and risk levels it's better to set yourself up for a low cost lifestyle than rely on high investment returns.
Controversial, but don’t work, get state benefits, a council house and if needing care, the state will pay for the lot.
You mean become a Peer? Risky strategy!
Birth, School, Work, Death.
Retirement is the third comma; don't mess about!
Conveniently chosen period. Now try March 2000 to today:
https://www.onvista.de/index/FTSE-Index-1918069
/blockquote>you would have had all the dividends, which probably average to around 4% per annum. Down drawing 7% after that would mean your fund lasts 30ish years
This seems to have descended into a "how do I pay for my retirement" thread. All I'd say on that is that if you've paid off debts (including you mortgage) then retirement can be pretty cheap; a continual stream of cruises and foreign holidays isn't compulsory. My biggest outflow of cash before I retired was pension payments and savings; once I wasn't paying that the money seemed to be less of a problem!
I retired at 55, nearly 10 years ago - the company I was working for at the time made me an offer too good to refuse. Spent the first few years of retirement catching up on the skiing I hadn't been able to do when work got in the way before I was too old and doing a lot of mountain biking outside the skiing season. Having more free time means I can go out on my bike when it suits me and the weather and conditions are good - no more death-slogs through the mud and rain because it's the only free time I've got. Have started to learn the piano, was supposed to be doing some volunteering gardening in a NT property this year but Covid's put paid to that, and still haven't started that novel I've always said I'd write.
One thing I noticed before I retired was that a lot of people my sort of age knew retirement was beckoning but weren't really ready for it as they'd done nothing but work since leaving education, had no real hobbies or outside interests, and in some cases because they'd been on various international placements didn't even have a country they could call home. Some of these have drifted into work they don't want or need to do simply because they don't know what else to do, others seem to go into decline or hit the bottle. I find that rather sad. Hopefully most of the people on here can at least look forward to more time on their bikes.
you would have had all the dividends, which probably average to around 4% per annum.
3.42% between 95 and 2015 and then knock off the management fees of say 1.5%. Net return of 2% before tax.
I went for a swim this morning after hoovering, caught up on the local news and STW. It's raining so I'll play guitar this afternoon.
3.42% between 95 and 2015 and then knock off the management fees of say 1.5%. Net return of 2% before tax.
no-where near that level of fee - HSBC's tracker (picked the first one) has fees of 0.18%.
so a net return of 3.24%. Other than income tax, which is applicable on any earnings, not sure what tax you're referring to?
over the same period of time, inflation averaged 2.8%, so the post-inflation income was 0.44%, but over the same period the index rose 70%, or another 2.69% total return being 3.13%. downdrawing 4% over that time would mean your investment lasts 115 years. I probably won't live that long in retirement.
7.5% to 12.8% tax on cash in "forfait libératoire", I'm French you see (on most investment you cash in you can pay up to 30% tax in France between income tax and the tax you pay when you cash in the investment) . Madame has some HSBC funds, they're actively managed rather than trackers but the management fees are indeed 1.5%.
On the bonds versus stocks thing:
https://www.financialsamurai.com/historical-bond-versus-stock-performance/
Spreading your investments spreads risk. The best return I've had in recent years has been a European mid-cap fund, the next best a fixed income savings account I opened about 20 years back. The worst is not a tracker but has a lot of CAC40 companies in it.
I went for a swim this morning after hoovering, caught up on the local news and STW. It’s raining so I’ll play guitar this afternoon
Sounds good to me. I really like what I do but I'm just about done with working full time (or even part time like I do right now). More guitars and bikes please. House is paid off next year so time to reassess I reckon
Dont often post but had to - what a great thread this is! I'm 56 and been inspired by the the posts. Got a decent job but boy, is it getting harder... was planning on retiring at 60, to be "fairly comfortable. " Realising money isn't at all everything - life, family and friends certainly are. This has kicked me to do something. I've sent off for statements and planning to see a financial advisor. Cheers,
Many have rightly said no-one knows how long they have, so don't put off retirement if you can possibly afford it. For me there's more to it than that: I'm 63 and retired, fit and healthy (riding about 25 hilly miles off road most days, as I have for many years), but already I'm doubting my ability to do some of the things on my bucket list, like the off-road C2C. I'd defs say do it. Soon.
A lot of people get muddled up in life about what is the important constrained resource. Having a big focus on money blindsides many of us from the truth that time is our constraint.
Hope to retire at the end this year at 56. I won’t be rich in financial terms but will be much better off in terms of time to do what I want to do.
Just turned 53, and 32 yrs of pension contributions in the electricity supply industry.
My employer is restructuring and thousands of jobs are about to go in our business.
I have put my hand up to go (very early in the process, six months or so ago as was worried that they would declare that I am “mapped” and in) and have said they need to back-fill my role and keep someone in the organisation who would be more anxious about being made redundant in to the current covid job market.
Appreciate I’m lucky to have the option...can’t imagine them keeping me. It makes zero sense to me to keep working (as well as redundancy lump, my pension kicks-in in full, ie a lump sum and annual allowance). So much more free time beckons.
Only advice I can offer is start pension contributions as early as you possibly can. I am so so grateful to the lady in HR who ‘bullied’ me in to a pension contribution when I was 21, couldn’t really afford them at the time but jeez to have time with my missus and the kids is a priceless option. Just within touching distance, not, quite there yet.
I've been effectively retired for 6 months due to the 'rona.
full salary, only occasionally giving an on-line lecture
go to the beach and ride my bike most days.
I'm really bored. turns out I like pottering at uni.
I’m French you see (on most investment you cash in you can pay up to 30% tax in France between income tax and the tax you pay when you cash in the investment) .
ISAa are completely tax free,
SIPPs are 25% tax free and then your income is taxed at your standard rate based on total earnings.
Madame has some HSBC funds, they’re actively managed rather than trackers but the management fees are indeed 1.5%
Insanely high fee, you should switch to one with sensible fees. Although if it was averaging say 10% pa growth, I'd probably accept it. However, if it just a closet tracer, you're being completely ripped off.
I think it's the only one that's higher now than before Covid, though after yesterday I'd have to check that.
I'll repeat that the main thing IMO is to have a lifestyle that doesn't rely on a high income.
I retired end of March ... just before I was 60. I was working fro a Japanese company, based out of Cologne.
Germany every three weeks, Russia twice a year, Span twice a years, Singapore twice a year , Spain, France, RSA, Poland, Italy as needed. USA every couple of years ...
Then I realised that although I was blessed with huge amount of knowledge in my chosen field - that my Japanese bosses didn't want to be global / international - they wanted to just be a bigger Japanese company. Hence, it did not matter what I did or what I said, things were decided in a meeting where, being non Japanese, I wasn't invited to.
I was in a good position in that my FA asked me why I was still working ( my other half is older than I am, so it is a reasonable assumption that one of use will have died in the next 15 years.
So I told them to stuff it and left end of March.
Covid has meant that it has been a whimper than a great global tour - NZ/ Oz to see rellies was cancelled - and then months trying to get a not inconsiderable amount money back from Netflights.com (Hint people: don't use them, they are shysters).
But it has been good a decompression time - I have got to do loads of cycling, I am fitter than I have probably ever been. Bought an old Triumph Speed Triple to do up. We now ( as of 5 days ago) have dog - a rescue pointer - and that brings some challenges.
Travel will be held off until next year - will do w/e away depending on local lockdowns etc.
I am not bored yet - just started doing voluntary Coas****ch Duties.
I have just agreed with myself that I m going to spend 2 hrs a day learning something new. Either actually physical stuff or mental stimulation.
My wife has decided that I am the untidiest person in the world ( hey, ho ... it's nothing new).
My have a hankering to have a "purpose' in the future - but it certainly won't be flying around the world sharing ideas for growing business to people who don't want to listen.
I am am fortunate I can be fussy ...
But I do find myself worrying about little things ...
The 4% "rule" is not based on interest rates but on returns including dividends. These are not related to the BOE interest rate.
Agree with @footflaps in that I intend to stay invested and draw down on my SIPP which is almost all invested in companies outside the UK so growth (even this year) has been strong.
"Time invested" is almost always better than "timing investment" so as long as you are not buying into an annuity you should not have to crystallise losses
Just turned 53, and 32 yrs of pension contributions in the electricity supply industry.
The gold plated with diamond encrustation pension scheme......
As I understand it protected by statute!
For financial reasons my plan is to work until the end of 2022 but I've just been offered a deal that sees me go now, with a payoff that would be the equivalent of being paid until the end of 2021. In normal times I would risk taking the money and picking up some IT contract work, but the triple whammy of Covid/Brexit/IR35 means that option is high risk. Best case scenario is I pick up contract work which means I can retire say, at the end of 2021 having met my financial plan. Worst case scenario is I don't pick up any contract work and fall short on my financial plan. Any suggestions?
For financial reasons my plan is to work until the end of 2022 but I’ve just been offered a deal that sees me go now, with a payoff that would be the equivalent of being paid until the end of 2021. In normal times I would risk taking the money and picking up some IT contract work, but the triple whammy of Covid/Brexit/IR35 means that option is high risk. Best case scenario is I pick up contract work which means I can retire say, at the end of 2021 having met my financial plan. Worst case scenario is I don’t pick up any contract work and fall short on my financial plan. Any suggestions?
Take the money. There will be jobs out there i'm sure. The world of IT is not going to collapse because of IR35 (just some peoples tax strategies). If you bank the money offered the pressure will be off and you can way up what you want to do and for how long.
^ agree
Worst case scenario is I don’t pick up any contract work and fall short on my financial plan. Any suggestions?
1/2 years out from retirement I'd have thought that any savings you're making will have a negligible effect on your retirement (unless you only started saving for retirement a fews years back). After 30 years of saving I'm at the point now where my current pot out earns me, so any contributions I make are fairly insignificant....
As long as you keep mentally and physically active and can adjust to a more simple life style is absolutely fabulous.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy good health and a wide range of interest all of which are outdoor related.
It's is always easy to find one more reason not to do something than to do it and most people just keep to what they know or are comfortable with.
Stay flexible and take on the odd part time job if it takes your fancy trying something different to your normal work and don't try to turn a hobby into an income it kills it dead.
We only pass this way but once.
Enjoy
Had this afternoon off and the weather was fantastic, so walked up the river to the next town, sketched in the museum for an hour, and walked back in the sunshine #retirementpractice
This thread has been full of great information, experiences and good advice.
Since the pandemic I have been considering taking semi retirement (being self employed I can work when orders come in, which now are fewer).
I already have a fairly frugal lifestyle and can't see how we could go further unless we downsize.
My own pensions from being self employed are tiny. One only pays out £1,000 per annum, the other 2 aren't much better.
In this pandemic it will be harder to do things our parents have done. There won't be as many holidays or places we can visit unless we can get this under control.
My own father retired at 65 and died aged 66. Maybe this will spur me on.
The key thing to remember is that in retirement your expenditure should be quite low eg you've hopefully paid off the mortgage and you won't be paying into pensions / savings etc anymore.
You also get the state pension, which for many will be the bulk of their overall pension eg my parents in law have quite a nice lifestyle on a very modest income (about 2x state pension).
You also get the state pension,
Eventually. Maybe.
I can't see the state pension going, for most people its their only / main income in retirement, so getting rid of it would just create a bigger problem.
State pension isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable, I'd expect it will eventually be reduced to nothing as those who enter the workplace now reach retirement.
You also get the state pension
I do not get my state pension until 67. I am physically and mentally unable to continue working in my job until then. 7 more years - no way. I retire at 60 skint.
UK state pension is pennies as well.
UK state pension is pennies as well.
Its pretty significant for a lot of pensioners, probably all they have to live on!
UK state pension is pennies as well.
It's 9 grand a year! If you're mortgage free, I reckon that's quite tidy TBH.
9K net, after rent/mortgage, is more than my average earnings as an adult. (hopefully not for too much longer, mind)....
copmare it to other european countries. Its a pittance. 20% of it gone immediately on council tax. 50% of people rent so thats another chunk. Most european countries you would get 2 or 3 times as much
I retire at 60 skint.
No quite what you wrote on page 1 😉
We will have a much lower retirement income than people say we should – around 30% of current salaries. However we are prepared to cut our cloth accordingly. We do not get state pensions until 67
Seriously though tj, best of luck when you do retire.
I do not get my state pension until 67. I am physically and mentally unable to continue working in my job until then. 7 more years – no way. I retire at 60 skint.
No reason why you can't take a different job, loads of openings for Amazon warehouse workers at the moment....
Most european countries you would get 2 or 3 times as much
Name 14 countries with a minimum lower than the UK when you include all the benefits a pensioner can claim, TJ. In France it's 643e if you've worked 120 quarters and less prorata if you haven't. That's not the whole story though as various benefits are available depending on your situation.
As for 2 or 3 times as much, nope.
I retired in December, went back part time as a way of easing or weaning myself off the idea of a full time job. It's tricky to make that step away from a guaranteed income, even though my pension counts as exactly that.
Working 22 hours a week effectively doubles my pension income, and I'm loathe to give it up in case i have to support any of my kids who might fall on hard times given the current situation.
It's quite complex comparing scheme across Europe as no two are the same. Some interesting info here:
of a full time job
Vocation. I bet the financial aspect is just an excuse. 😉
Joking aside retirement isn't for everyone. I know two recently retired doctors, one (a cyclist) is very happy, the other is going through an existential crisis.
France state pension is almost 4 times as much if you have the full state pension by your own numbers. remember the 175 a week is the MAX uk state pension - many folk get less me included as I do not have 40 years of NI payments
Here you go - just look at the mandatory
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00290/
https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2018/02/13/uk-state-pension-worst-in-the-developed-world/
Vocation my arse.
I've been fighting that stereotype for 30 years; its an excuse not to pay people properly!
I agree fully that the key is to cut your cloth; work out a way of living that doesn't require a vast amount of money. It's taken a while, but I've blocked all those super models who kept pestering me.
Now add the Pensions credit, TJ. Add the winter fuel thing and... .
The British system is based on a minimum and then private capitalisation schemes.
You have a couple of flats you rent out and other investment income so you are not illegible for any of th ebenefits, just the pension.
As Footflaps says it's hard to compare systems but if you look at the most poor, those in rented accomodation on the minimum state pension including all the benefits available the differences are not "almost 4 times".
Edit to add:
I'm mulling it over myself - 55,mortgage free and with a small second income from a rented house. I even started my pension in my mid 20s with a great scheme from my employer. Shame that it was with equitable life, and that I was going through a rough time when they collapsed so rode that all the way to the bottom and its probably going to pay half what it would have. I've gone down to 4 days a week this year which has been a great start but I've still got too much to do in my own time so dropping to 3 days a week would be tempting if it weren't for the massive project at work that's about to kick off and be a drain on my time, so I doubt the drop to 3 days will be approved in the next year or two. I'll probably see how it plays out this year then decide what I want to do next spring.
Some great info on this thread, and some very inspirational thoughts and ideas too.
Fantastic reading the things that people actually DO with their retirement time - and I'd like to find out more, as many people think that once they stop working, that's it: Boredom. Personally, I don't get that, as @blokeuptheroad said, there's an endless universe of opportunity if you think about it.
I'd like to hear more people's thoughts and ideas about how they actually spend their time in retirement... my ideas below.
But first, for those who don't know what their financial situation is, or how they'll fund retirement, I recommend doing the following:
1. Start by tracking what your outgoings are today with your current lifestyle.
- Download some expense tracking software that automatically sucks in and categorises the transactions from your bank accounts, credit cards etc. Make sure you go though it regularly to ensure the categorisations are correct.
- This may sound like drudgery, but it's actually fun, and there's tremendous value in knowing what you're actually spending rather than guessing.
- So far as apps go, I've used BankTivity and Quicken in the past, but MoneyHub is my favourite these days - simple, easy, brilliant, UK-not-US centric, and inexpensive at £10/year.
2. Do the above for at least 6 months then extrapolate it on a spreadsheet to a full year.
- Obviously, a year or more gives you much more reliable data and takes account of seasonal fluctuations such as Christmas, summer holidays, birthdays, etc.
- Doing this will give you an insight into what your actual spending is.
- Now, project out how you think your spending in each category will change in retirement. For example, in our case we reduced the amounts each year for groceries (as we won't be feeding a family of 5), child & dependent expenses, clothing, cars (as we won't need the 3 we currently have), car insurance, telephones & mobiles, and so on - and increased the amounts we'll likely spend on travel/holidays, hobbies, entertainment, eating out, medical expenses, gifts, etc.
3. Get control of your Pensions
- If, like me, you don't know what your pensions amount to (I had 9 pensions from 6 employers over 29 years), contact all your providers and get statements for retirement income and/or transfer out values.
- Consider carefully whether what your money is actually invested in (the 'underlying') and whether it is in the right place(s).
- In my case, once I saw it all laid out I was shocked at how poorly some of my pension pots were performing - then embarrassed/ashamed at how how many years I'd ignored doing anything about it (!).
- As to what your money should be invested in, well, there's no one right answer for everyone. But if, like me, you've ignored it for some time, or if you're not sure - then clue yourself up! Get sure. Do a bit of reading up on how to invest, what Funds are, what Index Trackers are, what Bonds are, what other investments are. If that all sounds too boring, go and see an IFA - but beware of high fees for some funds.
- Just clue yourself up and start to make better choices. *see point 5 below.
4. Project out (again, using a spreadsheet) what all your future sources of income will be p/a (State Pension, personal Pension, investment income, savings income, other sources of income if you have them), and compare it to your projected annual outgoings from Step 2. You'll immediately see if you're 'good to go' or not.
- If not, consider how you can reduce your current spending in order to save/invest more.
- The financial insight you have gained from step 2. above will be invaluable as you do this.
5. Clue Yourself Up.
- I won't get into the debate here about the 4% rule, where to invest/what to invest in, pensions, savings, etc... there's a bazillion books and articles out there already. But for anyone who's interested in retiring early there are some valuable sources of info out there.
- Start by reading JL Collins' "The Simple Path To Wealth' (and/or read his blog), listen to the 'MadFientist' podcast (and other 'FIRE' podcasts), read 'Mr Money Mustache's' blog, etc.. Just Google 'FIRE' and start browsing.
Now onto the more interesting stuff: 'What to do with your time once retired'...
I'm 55 and am in the fortunate position of being financially independent. No, I didn't inherit a fortune. No, I didn't make millions in the City. And no, I am not a drug dealer :-). I've never been given a thing and have had to work hard - very hard - for everything I've got. Often it was too hard, missing my kids birthdays, suffering incredible stress/burnout, nearly losing a marriage.
I've always avoided debt as much as possible and lived within my means. That is a core principle. Ok, we had a big mortgage (and miraculously managed to pay it off early), but aside from a mortgage we've avoided debt completely. We're fortunate, in that yes, we could afford nice cars and stuff if we wanted them, but I always looked at my mates driving the latest BMW or whatever and thought "They're nuts.. that £40k car will depreciate £20k in 2 years. I'd rather buy a £5k or £10 car and drive it for 5 years then sell it for £2k".
That kind of philosophy goes a long way - and applies to most things in life. Life is not about material possessions: the nicest house, blingest car, the latest iPhone, gadget or doo-dad, a new Sky+ box, or whatever. Life is not about 'Stuff'. We have more material possessions today than our grandparents or ancestors every had - yet there is no evidence that they were any less happy. Life is about friendships, love, contribution, happiness, health, etc.
So.. what are those things for you? I'd love to hear what makes people happy.
What are the things you'd do if you retire today?
And for this who are already retired/have achieved FI, what do you do with your time?
For me, these are the things that are important to me:
- Go for walks with my wife & dog in the countryside
- Drink coffee with my wife/visit Cafe's and just talk
- Continue to be a loving, supportive Dad to my 3 kids
- Ride my bike - with friends
- Spend a season or two (probably in a CamperVan) following the Pro road cycling season: starting with Flanders/Paris Roubaix, then onto the Giro, le Tour, la Vuelta and culminating at the Giro di Lombardia (not slavishly following every stage of every tour, but coming and going as we please, to the stages/places that interest us)
- Spend a month or so in summers hiking around the Alps/Pyrenees with a knapsack on my back
- Ski more, until such time as we're unable to
- Laugh more
- Contribute more to our local Community (my wife has run the Cubs/Scouts for the past 12 years, I've volunteered at camps, village fetes etc... but I want to have more of an impact. I want to make a bigger contribution).
- Do more Yoga. I love it and always feel better.
- Vitality/Health/Fitness/Mobility/Wellbeing: walk, run, yoga, cycle, maybe take up some calisthenics, reading.
What a BRILLIANT post, Digger! Lots for me to think about! Cheers...
I retired in July after 32 years as an active member of the company and I'm regretting it bitterly as I'm bored while waiting for our house to be built. Just thinking about the job and my colleagues brings down the black gloom of depression.
I hope things will improve once we've moved in and started unpacking and settling down
Download some expense tracking software that automatically sucks in and categorises the transactions from your bank accounts, credit cards etc. Make sure you go though it regularly to ensure the categorisations are correct.
You don't necessarily need to do that. In figuring out my post retirement requirements I downloaded my previous year's bank statement as a csv, imported into Excel and a bit of manual intervention and a pivot table later I had my categorised expenditure. It took just a few hours.
I packed it in at 58 and haven't missed work at all. Alongside teaching (HoF) I was an examiner and reviser, had a few different roles in publishing and conferences. Did do a six month stint at a college (maternity leave) but apart from that I've just indulged my interests. Took up wood carving and would've loved to follow Tillydog but no room for a lathe. My Mrs' job necessitated some travel so I would drive for her and live half the week in hotels (art galleries, cycling, beer during the day). Got round most of the nation's collection of Pre-Raph painting (plus Paris) and knocked up a few lockdown YTs on the back of it. I don't know how I found the time to go to work. Mortgage-free and my income is now 65% of what it was but I don't feel deprived of anything. I never used to be very good at being 'managed' and now I reckon I would be impossible so it's a one-way ticket.
– Start by reading JL Collins’ “The Simple Path To Wealth’ (and/or read his blog), listen to the ‘MadFientist’ podcast (and other ‘FIRE’ podcasts), read ‘Mr Money Mustache’s’ blog, etc.. Just Google ‘FIRE’ and start browsing.
Someone mentioned a couple of FIRE people a while back on here and I watched a podcast or two. It was a really weird circular thing of FIRE people interviewing each other in podcasts all offering a (paid for) service advising people on how to achieve FIRE which is ironic as they obviously hadn't. They just all seemed to set themselves up as FIRE advisors, but hadn't actually retired. All very strange, pay me to advise you on how to achieve something I've failed to achieve myself.
Someone mentioned a couple of FIRE people a while back on here and I watched a podcast or two. It was a really weird circular thing of FIRE people interviewing each other in podcasts all offering a (paid for) service advising people on how to achieve FIRE which is ironic as they obviously hadn’t. They just all seemed to set themselves up as FIRE advisors, but hadn’t actually retired. All very strange, pay me to advise you on how to achieve something I’ve failed to achieve myself.
Hard to disagree with any of that. JL Collins also organises this weird FIRE 'retreat' in an exotic corner of the world each year (well, probably not this year...) for FIRE-aspirants where they can hear from various 'famous' FIRE bloggers, and attendance is not cheap. It's all a bit weird and culty but it is a contradiction from the basic message that you can easily ignore. The principles of index investing and living frugally are sound.
and attendance is not cheap
I guy I met through the local CF box claims to be FIRE, he is currently advertising on FB for his latest money management course, only £4k for a few 1 hour video lectures and a couple of 1-2-1 sessions.
From his FB feed I get the impression he probable is FIRE but just really bored, doesn't seem to have any hobbies other than advising on investing.
He wrote a book (not read it): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Money-Shot-Slightly-Personal-Investing-ebook/dp/B07D471F4L
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Someone mentioned a couple of FIRE people a while back on here and I watched a podcast or two. It was a really weird circular thing of FIRE people interviewing each other in podcasts all offering a (paid for) service advising people on how to achieve FIRE which is ironic as they obviously hadn’t. They just all seemed to set themselves up as FIRE advisors, but hadn’t actually retired. All very strange, pay me to advise you on how to achieve something I’ve failed to achieve myself.
I agree with some of that - there's a groundswell/momentum building in the achieving financial independence and retiring early sector - and like anything that's a hot topic, people will piggy-back onto that and try to market themselves/monetise it.
I've read up a lot about FIRE, and just dispose of the obvious nonsense, marketing pap, or anything paid-for. JL Collins is very down-to-Earth and there's a lot of sense in his book and blog - but it's not like he says anything that hasn't been said before by so many authors and pundits:
1. Avoid debt
2. Spend less than you earn
3. Invest the surplus
...and over time, you'll become financially independent.
I've lost count of the number of times and places you can read that simple advice.
So far as Podcasts go, I got annoyed with the vast majority of them, but the MadFientist one is a Yank who lives in the UK (half the time), and isn't anything like as annoying/irritating as most USA-centric stuff is. In fact, I find his podcasts pretty thought-provoking. And so far as I'm aware, he doesn't have any paid-for stuff he's pushing.
I find it useful to listen/read/research from all over the place - as much as I can. I then discount most of it/the things that don't work for me, and either carry out the stuff that I find works for me, or look further into it.
Well, the first of my mates has gone. Half Cypriot he bought a house five years ago for holidays and visits and last night flew out for good. I’ve now realised he did what many advocate on here - shuffled money away to pensions and savings not really doing anything flash with it, and at 55 now will be about £26k a year pensions and drawn downs which over there is more than enough for a decent, quite life.
I must admit as I got up for work this morning it caused me to struggle a bit, I’ve still got at least 10 years to go.
1. Avoid debt
2. Spend less than you earn
3. Invest the surplus…and over time, you’ll become financially independent.
This is the essential summary of Reset, which focuses on your measure of financial independence quoting FIRE etc as references but simplified. The simplistic understanding of not having to work to pay debt caused by material or other desires comes as a bit of a light bulb moment for most, as does the mental relief of knowing your working toward an ambition rather than to back pay that debt.
No reason why you can’t take a different job, loads of openings for Amazon warehouse workers at the moment….
With arthritis in my hands and feet, damaged back leading to siatica and a minced head from stress the pool of jobs i could do is rather small. No standing or walking all shift, no manual labour, nothing stressful
I am millimetres away from going off long term sick because of the pain in my feet
Whilst I don't want to come across as minimising any health issues that you have TJ
this
stress the pool of jobs i could do is rather small. No standing or walking all shift, no manual labour, nothing stressful
I am millimetres away from going off long term sick because of the pain in my feet
doesn't really match with this
A 3 month walk – Edinburgh to Cape Wrath, a 3 month cycle – North sea to black sea. 6 months trekking in south america, 6 months road trip round the antipodies. I’ll be doing these things and others) in the years between 60 and 67 while you carry on working.
For me I will have to start really thinking about what I need to do in the long term. Having just been diagnosed with MS it's unlikely that I'll be able to work 'till I'm 67, not that I wanted to. Pensions and saving are fine but mortgage will be here until I'm 60 unless I make inroads there too. Which in fairness is certainly possible.
As you say - you don't know.
At work i am on my feet for 12 hours. Walking I can use highly supportive rigid soled boots and only for 6 hours a day. I have bought some rigid soled shoes to try at work but its not helped. Yesterday having been on my feet for the best part of 24 out of 36 hours I was in real significant pain.
Also its progressive - so the more I walk and stand the more damage. thus if i want not to be crippled when I retire then I need to retire ASAP
the walk is in doubt because of the increase in pain over the last few months I am really pissed off about that.
globalti
Free Member
I retired in July after 32 years as an active member of the company and I’m regretting it bitterly as I’m bored while waiting for our house to be built. Just thinking about the job and my colleagues brings down the black gloom of depression.
Genuinely sorry to hear that, and hope things improve for you.
Sorry to pry, but I'd be interested to know whether any of this was in your feelings pre-retirement?
Were you, for example, one of those people who were going to do everything and couldn't wait, but find that the reality is different? Or someone who loved their work and didn't really want to leave? (To cite two extremes.)
I'm interested in browsing the Mr Money Mustache site. I'm 49, would love to stop at 60. Our nest egg is sitting in NSI part ISA, part income bonds. When they drop to 0.1% in December, is it worth moving the Income Bonds sum to a Vanguard Lifestyle account, probably medium risk?
I'm already maxed on my pension contributions via HL with work contributing to that, so it feels the right way to go, and in 10 years stands a chance of decent growth at least beyond standard savings accounts.
Personally I'm invested in 100% equities, which is probably what they call 'high risk'. I want maximum growth long term and am prepared to suffer the ups and downs of stock markets eg back in January or whenever the last big dip was I 'lost' a six figure sum in a couple of weeks, however, it then bounced back and is now back above where it was. If I was in low / medium risk investments I'd have not suffered the dip but I'd also be getting bugger all growth, which means a poorer retirement - so I figure max risk for max gain. Given I don't intend to buy an annuity I don't have a fixed timescale when I'll cash in the pension, I'll just draw it down over decades (if I live that long), so the ups and downs might cause the odd cash flow squeeze, but the overall gains are worth it.
I am slightly more risk-averse than @footflaps and think something like Vanguard Lifestrategy 60 would be a sensible choice with your time horizon, Kryton57 (this does not consistute financial advice etc. 😉 ).
Set up a DD to buy some every month in a Halifax stocks and shares ISA (currently the lowest platform fee and dealing costs possible, at £12.50 year/£1.50 a deal for a regular investment), and don't look at it again until 2030.
I am slightly more risk-averse than @footflaps and think something like Vanguard Lifestrategy 60 would be a sensible choice with your time horizon, Kryton57 (this does not consistute financial advice etc. 😉 ).
That was exactly my thought. As I've maxed my ISA allowance I just need a "general" account with a Lifestrategy 60 to dump my commissions into for the foreseeable but could be used for Emergency's I suspect to only guarantees the £84k though, not that I have that much to put any anyway but could reach it within the 10 years.
I retired 10 years ago next week and am still loving it. Nice having time for a cuppa in the morning, sitting down for breakfast and a decent cup of coffee. Also going riding when roads, trails, cafe's are quiet,tend to do less at the weekend now. I have also managed a couple of long breaks, Summer 2018 was two months up to the Arctic Circle and back in our 'van for example.
What I did find out is you still need to have a bit of discipline as easy to stay up late and get up late. Also if you currently have a day off work you will fill the day with 10 jobs that need doing. You know if you don't do it now it will be ages before you can do it again. When you are retired you will do one or two and leave the rest for another day and the list of jobs will last a week maybe more.
You still will not have time to learn a foreign language or to play an instrument and your messy garage / shed will still require sorting a decade from now.
Blackhound has almost word for word described my view of how my anticipated retirement goes. Slow, restful Coffee in the morning, XO rum at night and the rest in between
Personally I’m invested in 100% equities, which is probably what they call ‘high risk’. I want maximum growth long term and am prepared to suffer the ups and downs of stock markets eg back in January or whenever the last big dip was I ‘lost’ a six figure sum in a couple of weeks, however, it then bounced back and is now back above where it was. If I was in low / medium risk investments I’d have not suffered the dip but I’d also be getting bugger all growth, which means a poorer retirement – so I figure max risk for max gain. Given I don’t intend to buy an annuity I don’t have a fixed timescale when I’ll cash in the pension, I’ll just draw it down over decades (if I live that long), so the ups and downs might cause the odd cash flow squeeze, but the overall gains are worth it.
Almost exactly the same for me although I suspect I am closer to retirement (age wise) than you. 56 next week. Almost totally in equities as well and although I have moved a small amount to bonds watching equities rise and my "safe" investments are almost static is hard to bear.
I think for me I just want a break from working that doesnt have an end date, ie 2 weeks before being back at work. I get a bit stressed with work and even during holidays I find it difficult to switch off. I have worked for 40 yrs without a period of unemployment I really want to stop and have real time without counting down until I am back in again. There are so many things tht I wanted to do such as the Bob Graham Round and other hill adventures (which I was more than capable of right up until a few years ago) but depressingly those times have passed as despite my determination its difficult to get running fit again.
I suspect after a month or two I will want to maybe work again, who knows
I am almost totally in equities & I am only 1-2 years from full retirement. I am viewing the retirement investments as a long term investment (hopefully) so don't see the need for too many "safe" products. Also, my view is that it doesn't matter how the capital growth is achieved, so I am looking for a good (within reason) growth over a 20/30 year period.
I am looking forward to retirement now & have officially classed myself as semi-retired as I don't work Fridays!
A great thread, really great.
If you have your health, you are rich. If you have time to do the things you love and you are healthy you are truly lucky
I’m already maxed on my pension contributions via HL with work contributing to that, so it feels the right way to go, and in 10 years stands a chance of decent growth at least beyond standard savings accounts.
if you're already putting £40k/year into a pension, or hit the £1.1mm overall pot, you're probably sorted for later life - you can do the same under your partners name if he/she is earning taxed income, which would double that amount. That aside, LISAs (if you're not too old) are a pretty good vehicle once you've maxxed out the pension, as you get a 25% bonus when you withdraw them.
If you have your health,
This is the bit that counts and no amount of jiggery-pokery with various assets and plans and investments will make much difference.
Enjoy yourselves; it's always later than you think...
Just flicking back through this thread, and suddenly remembered a chat I had with an occupational psychiatrist who used to do retirement seminars at a firmer employers. The seminars were for staff and their partners.
In the sessions he got people to write down the jobs they were putting off for when they retired - they rarely needed more than 2-3 months, and then people had nothing else planned, so he got them to think beyond that timescale.
But also he got them to write down the jobs/skills/knowledge they had around the house that their partner couldn't do, and vice versa. Because at some point in the retirement, the other one would no longer be there and they would need to learn to manage for themselves.
This has been a really timely thread for me and very informative. The wife who hasn’t worked for the last 10 years has said she’d be happy for me to retire. At the moment though I’m in a job that I enjoy and it’s well paid plus WFH during Covid has made it even easier. So not quite ready to hang up my shingle. Fortunately I made a decision a long time ago to invest in Personal Pensions, funnily enough driven by the fact that at the bank I started working for a lot of the time served guys were counting the days until they could retire but worried about how much money they had invested as the pension wasn’t quite enough for their planned lifestyle.
What brought things home for me was when my father passed away 3 years ago, he was financially well off and had planned to do loads of travelling when he retired but ill health in the form of vascular dementia got in the way. As my grandmother also suffered from this I’m concerned that it might also get me in the end and it’s not a nice thought. So in some ways he left it too late to enjoy retirement and I don’t want to do the same.
Like a lot of others on here I know I won’t get bored, I’ll find something to do. So the plan now is to take things 6 months at a time and decide when I should pack it in. It’s feels a bit like planning for an extended holiday as me and the wife are looking at doing some long distance travelling for the first year, but Covid has stopped that. One thing I will definitely do is spend more time skiing and go to the alps for the full season rather than just a week. So I’ll be back on here asking for recommendations about where to stay in the French alps for a 3 month stint. Also would like to spend the Summer cycling so sounds like I’m talking myself into moving there for a year :).
Interestingly not many on here seem to be looking at downsizing or moving to another part of the country/abroad. That’s something I’m toying with but not yet decided on, don’t need the money particularly but a 4 bed house with a very large garden will get too much for us in 10 years. So can’t work out whether to move when I retire or put it off. The latter seems like a lost opportunity. For me this is likely to be one of the tougher decisions to make.
One thing I don’t intend doing is taking up golf which a few of my mates have done - seems to be a way of whiling away the time rather than something that I would find a challenge and therefore enjoy. So I’m glad I bought myself an eBike this year as this has meant I can go for longer rides and also tackle stuff that even when I was 30 I couldn’t get up. So looking at getting a campervan and bumming around for a while visiting places I always wanted to go to and having some extended cycling trips.
This has been a really timely thread for me and very informative.
I don't know what it says about me or this place but this has been far and away my most successful thread. Huge thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, you've really helped me make my mind up.
I'm 49, but went down to a 4 day week at the start of the year. I have Wednesdays off and go riding with a local group, normally 100-130k with a cafe stop. I always intend to spend the afternoon ticking off DIY jobs but just sit on the sofa drinking tea recovering as I've buried myself on the mornings ride!
