You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hi all,
Survey on the house I’m buying pointed out that there is a retaining wall that is on its way out. I’m trying to find out who is responsible for it (the seller is a bit useless), I suspect it will be on our side of the property line though from the look around I had yesterday.
The wall itself seems to be about 70cm tall and made from a single skin of bricks. It is (not really) retaining the dirt upon which the next house up the hill is built upon which is maybe 2 or 3m from the wall itself. As you can see in the picture below it’s currently held up with wooden props.
Obviously I’ll need to get a proper builder round to get a quote in etc, but would anyone like to ball park what it would cost to get it replaced? The wall is about 20m long in total, access isn’t amazing as there is an oil tank at one end.
I can tell this is going to be a pain in the arse as the seller isn’t going to want to hear a reduced price to account for it.
Cheers!
Run away!
If the house next door is 2-3m away the good news is that the wall isn't holding it up if it's only a 70cm drop.
Looking at that photo I'd suggest that the vegetation is pushing the wall over, and to rectify you'll need to cut back the vegetation and rebuild the wall off a decent foundation. A brick wide wall, 215mm not 102.5mm should be okay for 70cm high but you'll want someone to check what else is in the ground. There could be drains running near it as well etc, it might be close to you foundations etc.
I'd get a builder and engineer in to price up the remedial works and insist that the works are done prior to the sale or reduce the costs accordingly. The neighbour will need to be notified of the works as well.
Definitely put this on the seller!
Aside from the legal issues which a solicitor would have to advise on, the cost of taking that out and rebuilding it could easily be 5k plus as it'll require labour to remove the organic matter, a machine to batter the land back, new brick wall constructed full length possibly including buttresses (since a 9 inch wall doesn't appear to be suitable to hold the land back alone), then backfilled behind. Drainage may need to be incorporated into it.
If it's on the boundary line you may also need to invoke the Party Wall Act.
We constructed one for a school a few years ago that was over 20k + VAT, it was twice the height of that though.
there is a retaining wall that is on its way out.
Do you mean that it's being pushed over? If so that's pretty scary (depending upon how long the wall has been there) - although TBH a single skin of brick isn't going to hold much up and probably wasn't built with that purpose in mind.
If that bank is sliding/moving towards "your" building then it's possibly not going to be a cheap fix. TJ may not be too far off the mark!!
Is there a height difference? Next door looks higher.
If it's a boundary wall the cost should be split with the neighbour
A building engineer to specify a 3' max retaining wall surely not
A reputable bricklayer/builder should know what they are doing, I'd suggest new foundation with a142 mesh in the 150mm deep concrete , 330 mm wide wall for the first 450mm then reduce to 215 mm with a proper overhanging coping
Maybe a clean cut/ expansion joint to split the length in two and if they are good at building a slight batter
if the maintenance of the boundary wall has been poor, what about the rest of the house. Run away, i wish i had a few years back. No end of issues cropping up still.
Looks to me like the house next door is moving - thats why I'd run away. I would certainly want a lot more than just the cost of the wall. I'd want to know why its being pushed over like that - just the vegitation or the house next door moving etc. It would scare the heck out of me as a possible source of endless issues. dunno who you would go to for that - stuctural engineer?
Next door neighbours house moving maybe not, any house movement would show first as major cracks, window gaps, doors not able to open close etc, a single brick wall has no strength to talk about you can push one over fairly easy, double to up or even a cavity with wall ties it gains so much more strength
A cubic metre of sodden soil will weigh 2 1/2 tonnes min just over the years pushed a dinky wee not fit for purpose retaining wall
It may not be too bad if you can get a wee digger in there, a lot depends on how much there is to the left of that image though, and then basically Gabian wall the length of it. If you're gonna have to handball all of that out there, then it's a job and a half, and I'd tend to agree with tj.
I know quite a bit of the history of this house - I think the wall is starting to fall over due to a big mixed species / evergreen hedge that used to run along it. This was largely removed as it was possibly contributing to minor subsidence at the front of the house (it's a bungalow) - the main cause was a large willow (planted in the 1990s - the house is from about 1960) that was removed as part of the remedial works to address the subsidence. The subsidence has been fixed and there is a structural adequacy certificate etc to show that etc.
There is a sewerage drain that runs down the side of the house at one end.
From looking at it, the wall doesn't actually seem to do much as it's just a single skin wall, rather than a proper retaining wall. The earth is pretty heavy clay.
It seems to date from about 1975-1980 when the house i'm buying was extended along the length of the wall (1975) and the next house along was extended (1980). The next house along is higher up the hill, perhaps by a meter and a half.
We love the house, so we're reluctant to walk away if it's fixable (although i'd like the seller to pay for it!).
Found a builder on check a trade. Spoke to them on the phone and sent some photos. His take is "so to take down existing wall and footing.
Dig a new footing rebuild wall in brick to match house and blocks behind cap of with a coping stone £5,264"
Assuming some solicitor costs and a 50% inaccuracy in that quote - 10k I guess.
Just do away with the wall, and batter it back at 2:1 as it sounds as if there is room?
Leave you with muck to shift but then maybe no future issues either...
I would want a pros opinion as to why the earth moved personally.
Without exploratory works the answer to TJs question is a half brick wall of 700mm high is not adequate and the vegetation over the years has grown and the roots have pushed the wall out.
If you can get your potential neighbour to agree. Remove the vegetation and batter back as suggested above. Simplest solution right there. Subject to the drainage mentioned not being an issue.
That wouldn't put me off buying. But I wouldn't pay for it without a significant reduction in price as you've already calculated.
Just do away with the wall, and batter it back at 2:1 as it sounds as if there is room?
@tarquin / @twistedpencil - are there some standard formulas to work out whether turning it into a slope is acceptable? I very vaguely remember some from my uni days when I did a cross disciplinarily civil engineering project.
The stability of the slope and the pressure on the wall depend on the type of soil behind it - original clay, misc rubble from house building, etc, whether the ground rises, how well drained it is, what the loads on it might be (ie, if the boundary is close, could the neighbour put a drive in and park vehicles?).
@Ewan, as Greybeard states, it depends on the make up of the ground so difficult to say. You could look at putting in some geotextile layers to give any slope more stability.
Alternatively my new favourite type of retaining wall is the earth filled bags that can be seeded so become a green embankment. This might be a cheaper alternative to a brick wall.
If it was my boundary though I'd probably build it back in brick and take the wall up to 1.8m height or so.
The main thing would be agreement with your future neighbour mind, they may not want a sloping bit of land here if it's used as access etc.
Cool cheers - hopefully I'll get the seller to pop for the 10k.
Had something similar at the end of our home retaining our garden from neighbours drive.
What little i could find implied it was retaining my land so my problem and wall was predominantly on my land.
Bit more substantial in height (140cm) but only 8m long.
We paid £4,000
BUT
that was just materials/building and did include 8m of fence on top. We dismantled the wall, dug the garden/earth back 50cm and dug the foundation ditch for its replacement.
Don't underestimate how labour intensive it will be to prep the ground before ready to build a wall.
We had quotes from £8k (still us doing the clearing) to £17k (they did everything).
I'd not let it put me off buying the house.
If you do rebuild the wall make sure that drains [could just be gaps in the mortar] are in place to stop water building up behind it.
If you are absolutely sure the wall isn't retaining the neighbouring property I'll suggest doing a timber sleeper wall supported between the flanges of steel columns placed in concrete pad foundations. Stick some free draining material down the back with a perforated pipe at foundation level to take the water away.
(14 years experience as a structural technician so I've drawn up many retaining walls in similar situations)
If you are absolutely sure the wall isn’t retaining the neighbouring property I’ll suggest doing a timber sleeper wall supported between the flanges of steel columns placed in concrete pad foundations.
I'm not totally sure, I don't think it is, but that's a guess - if nothing else, it's not been maintained for best part of 40 years. I'm going to take a tape measure next week and get some proper measurements instead of my guesstimates.
Gabions, dead easy to do yourself. Cheap as well.
Problem is getting the stuff out that’s there now, but you could do one at a time.