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That’s working out really well for the majority, isn’t it?
I figure I do more good writing environmental guidelines at work than squatting in a tent in Central London with ER.
Also, the majority. That's not kids on bikes. It's the other 99.9% of people who use city center open spaces. Litteraly the minority spoiling it for the majority.
Yes, they have much to learn about life, but forcing kids to be subservient and meekly obedient, is why we have such a weak, subservient and pathetically obedient society now.
Alternatively, you teach kids that becoming politically active on an intellectual level is more fruitful at getting what you want than firebombing police vans in the town centre.
You’re just jealous because you’ve got no fight in you. Leave the fighting to those who can; you stick to the safety of behind your keyboard. The strong will protect you. Hopefully.
You're the one who feels the need to lash out. Intellectual small man syndrome?
Leave the fighting to those who can; you stick to the safety of behind your keyboard.
There was me thinking the schools had gone back!
How old are you? 12?
🤣
Alternatively, you teach kids that becoming politically active on an intellectual level is more fruitful at getting what you want than firebombing police vans in the town centre.
This.
Just a couple of examples of what (sometimes big) kids have achieved round here:
And over the road from that
And a couple of miles away
And this is from Reading council who are a bit......... bike hateing.
You’re the one who feels the need to lash out. Intellectual small man syndrome?
Lol. Triggered, much? Why are you even bothering to respond, if that's your opinion of me? Lashing out? Says the person dishing out a snide attempt at an 'insult'. Go you!
How old are you? 12?
Only when I buy a Wagon Wheel. Then, I'm filled with bitter disappointment. It's a lesson I've never learned...
I love how a thread on resolving arguments has splintered into multiple arguments that can't be resolved unless the other side backs down and confesses that they were wrong all along.
No; it’s about getting what you feel you need, out of life.
I feel I need a Porsche. Guy across the back has one. I'll just help myself then, shall I?
You’re just jealous because you’ve got no fight in you.
I have plenty of fight in me, thanks. I just don't believe "what I think I want" justifies theft and large-scale vandalism of someone else's property. Rather than playing the Internet hard man I'd rather just ask nicely in the first instance. Do we want to resolve the disagreement, which is what it says in the subject right up there ☝ or do we want to see who can escalate things the most? They put one ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue?
You really don't see the difference between asking for something that isn't yours and taking it? It's the sort of self-entitled antisocial attitude that motivates bored old ladies into stringing around barbed wire at neck height rather than crocheting blankets.
I love how a thread on resolving arguments has splintered into multiple arguments
No it hasn't.
No it hasn’t.
Yes it has
Similar issue on Wirral at the moment the council has flattened a load of jumps claiming lockdown has led to their creation. They've been on the land for at least 20 years in a quit area of parkland. I hope the diggers keep digging.
I love how a thread on resolving arguments has splintered into multiple arguments
No it hasn’t.
Young people clearly don't understand what "argument" means.
Build jumps, council spend money flattening them. Build jumps again, repeat. Eventually the council will get fed up/run out of spending money
Yes I was thinking this aswell, the counciller who came up to us complained that it cost thousands to clear the jumps. Then they are rebuilt by an army of kids in 30mins. Surely it's in the council's best interests to come up with a good solution instead of constantly throwing money at it?
Lol! Cougar; watch your blood pressure, yeah? 😉
Yes I was thinking this aswell, the counciller who came up to us complained that it cost thousands to clear the jumps. Then they are rebuilt by an army of kids in 30mins. Surely it’s in the council’s best interests to come up with a good solution instead of constantly throwing money at it?
Kids need an outlet for their energies. Kids are full of energy. Kids are also devious, and spend much of their time trying to work out how to do what they want, regardless of what the 'adults' tell them. This is just part of their nature. Always has been. It's why society has progressed beyond hairy cave dwellers grunting at each other. So; far better to seek a compromise that keeps people at least reasonably happy, than continuing to oppose them. Because that has never worked, ever. In the entire history of humanity. Those in the local council should reflect on this, and think about how to create a workable solution, rather than continuing to oppose.
Seems one kid tried the 'official' route, some time ago. Seems that, unsurprisingl, got nowhere:
https://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/1265664.dirt-bike-boy-delivers-his-plans-to-mp/
@bridges that's very interesting I have never seen that article.
The guy in the pic also looks a lot like the guy on the left at 0:03 in this video:
Although maybe everyone looked like that in 2009. The jumps in that crater area are still very similar today, and the borrow holes from years ago are there. The jumps have also extended South of the crater which may have created the increased interest from the council to destroy them.
Are those little jumps really what the local gammon are hyperventilating about? Jesus H Christ. I imagined there were like 30 foot gap jumps and all sorts...
So; far better to seek a compromise that keeps people at least reasonably happy, than continuing to oppose them. Because that has never worked, ever. In the entire history of humanity.
Hang on, is this the same poster who an hour ago was delivering his own "we will fight them on the beaches" speach from his keyboard?
As for all of you saying ‘obey authority’; people like you stand by and watch as stronger people take a stand. So just stay out of the way; your apathy and weak mindedness achieves nothing. Ever...................Leave the fighting to those who can; you stick to the safety of behind your keyboard. The strong will protect you. Hopefully.
Guys I think this has blown out of proportion a bit. I am happy to open a new thread where we can have a free for all if you want (moderators permitting)
@bridges yeah its those jumps and some further up the hill. Here is an older pic as I don't have one of their current state:
Since this photo they have become a bit higher but also the gaps shorter. The amount of jumps has not changed recently as they have been mostly focusing on rebuilding broken jumps. It is in no way a large operation and the jumps aren't super advanced.
Hang on, is this the same poster who an hour ago was delivering his own “we will fight them on the beaches” speach from his keyboard?
Why, yes, yes it is! How about that, eh? Carry on misunderstanding though.
yeah its those jumps and some further up the hill. Here is an older pic as I don’t have one of their current state:
Lordy. I struggle to see why anyone would have an issue with that, I have to say.
Hahahahahhaah hahahahha hahaha haha haha hahahahah hah ha ha ha...
I thought this was going to be like the Surrey Hills doubles. I’d barely even call those jumps. They are certainly not dangerous. Can’t believe everyone has got so riled up.
This really does just look like kids having fun in a bomb crater. If you haven’t done that in your time do you even deserve to call yourself an MTB’er?
The world seriously needs to get a grip and focus on real problems. To me this is the definition of 1st world problem in Champagne socialist West London. Someone’s just taking it out on the kids because Waitrose gave them full size spinach instead of baby spinach by accident and their dog masseuse called in sick 😂
Yes I was thinking this aswell, the counciller who came up to us complained that it cost thousands to clear the jumps. Then they are rebuilt by an army of kids in 30mins. Surely it’s in the council’s best interests to come up with a good solution instead of constantly throwing money at it?
I would say it's in everyone's best interest. The problem is finding the person or group who can talk to both the council and the other kids/adults and get them to listen and work together
I'll try and get some more up to date pix once I go there again to give people a better perspective. The jump that the woman seems to always get worked up about jumps over a log that walkers have put down (ironic, I know) but also stretches across a path which may be a danger.
In terms of community support, we have had quite a few people saying that they think it is cool, lots of young children think it's impressive and even old people were encouraging. Only one or two people have complained/taken photos/threatened to call the police.
If I have to pick between a bunch of kids with shovels who want to ride their bikes off a few drops and berms, and some old biddy plus the keyboard lawyers on STW, I think I know where I stand.
If you've never ridden a cheeky trail or popped off a badly done pallet drop, I feel sorry for you. They come and go, nature of the beast. 16 year olds with shovels are not going to go looking for landowners and the local council, that's for us old farts.
colp.
Yes on Telegraph Road side. A complaint from a dog walker led to this apparently. Not exactly a huge area but bit of fun and good to see and chat to the "youth" digging them. There's a jump area on a bit of woodland by Jct 2 near my house that seems to be surviving well and is fairly busy though I think I'd just break myself if I played out there.
In terms of community support, we have had quite a few people saying that they think it is cool, lots of young children think it’s impressive and even old people were encouraging. Only one or two people have complained/taken photos/threatened to call the police.
In my experience, the kind of people that complain about everything kids do, and bang on about doing everything by the rules etc, are just resentful that they've never really taken risks or come out of their comfort zone, so feel somewhat inadequate and need a target for their frustrations. Funny how some of the gammon on here that were harping on about legality etc, have gone quiet now the real nature of this heinous crime has been revealed! 😀
Funny how some of the gammon on here that were harping on about legality etc, have gone quiet now the real nature of this heinous crime has been revealed!
The OP asked for solutions to a dispute. The only way to find a solution is to talk to the other side. Ignoring them hasn't solved the dispute. So, how do you propose to solve the argument?
With spades of course 😂
Check out the Ben Cathro accidental unapproved trail build over the summer on YT to see how it’s really done. At that level I may say the kids have gone a little too far in sunny West London. He managed to get approval post build on the end.
In my experience, the kind of people that complain about everything kids do, and bang on about doing everything by the rules etc, are just resentful that they’ve never really taken risks or come out of their comfort zone, so feel somewhat inadequate and need a target for their frustrations.
Ah, that sort of attitude is just whats needed to reach a resolution.
Funny how some of the gammon on here that were harping on about legality etc, have gone quiet now the real nature of this heinous crime has been revealed!
I suspect they got bored listening to people talking crap; and now you've labelled them gammon (a weird analogy as IME the people the "gammon" label gets attached to are least likely to be the ones pointing out the law) - are probably even less inclined to engage. Still I'm sure you feel better for your post.
In my experience, the kind of people that complain about everything kids do, and bang on about doing everything by the rules etc, are just resentful that they’ve never really taken risks or come out of their comfort zone, so feel somewhat inadequate and need a target for their frustrations.
Oh dear - you really have no idea do you.
With spades
...and hoes and ploughs
Ooh yes please! Covid has meant we haven’t been able to get anyone in to do the decorating, and it’s well overdue. And the garden’s a mess too, but please; I wouldn’t want you to put your back out, or worse, keel over. That would be awkward explaining to the authorities.
Well, the decoration might be dog shit in little bags hung on any available handle, crude graffiti, empty cans, bags and other crap, and you won’t mind if I do the garden over with a mini digger to avoid putting my back out, and any structural features I’ll just shove into a pile against the back of the house out of the way.
Is that ok?
Nobody likes a smartass, son, especially one who just thinks he’s a smartass.
#rollseyes.
the kind of people that complain about everything kids do, and bang on about doing everything by the rules etc, are just resentful that they’ve never blah blah blah
These two things are not equivalent.
I despise my generation and older ragging on our successors. We should be encouraging them rather that telling them that they're shit at ever turn. And of course they should be questioning things.
But that's a paradigm shift from cultivating "**** authority, I'll do what I please."
Sometimes rules are shit. They're often in place for the benefit of people who would eat crayons unless they said "do not eat" down the sides. Yet sometimes they're there to try and safeguard against you accidentally destroy a red squirrel habitat.
But, yay jumps. I'm alright. Power to the people. I'm clearly weak for not driving past a school at 50mph.
In my experience, the kind of people that complain about everything kids do, and bang on about doing everything by the rules etc, are just resentful that they’ve never really taken risks or come out of their comfort zone, so feel somewhat inadequate and need a target for their frustrations.
You really are making a bit of a t1t of yourself.
Sometimes rules are shit. They’re often in place for the benefit of people who would eat crayons unless they said “do not eat” down the sides. Yet sometimes they’re there to try and safeguard against you accidentally destroy a red squirrel habitat.
+1.
I despise my generation and older ragging on our successors. We should be encouraging them rather that telling them that they’re shit at ever turn. And of course they should be questioning things.
Indeed. I constantly encourage the yoof in my life to ask questions. To challenge ideas. To seek new alternatives. It’s called learning, it’s called growth & it’s the only way forward. Sometimes you have to accept the status quo as that’s the best option, other times challenging the status quo brings forward new & advantageous changes.
But, at all times remember rule no 1: don’t be a d1ck.
Ok soz for the 'gammon' comment, but really, get some perspective. It's a few pretty small jumps (even I'd happily jump them), kids have tried to get 'permission', the local council have been obstructive, so what do you expect to happen? Kids are kids.
Well, the decoration might be dog shit in little bags hung on any available handle, crude graffiti, empty cans, bags and other crap, and you won’t mind if I do the garden over with a mini digger to avoid putting my back out, and any structural features I’ll just shove into a pile against the back of the house out of the way.
As I said; get some perspective. In the grand scheme of things, how 'bad' is this, really? Has anyone actually been harmed? Has nature suffered in any major way? Have some kids had fun over the years? It's really not that big a deal.
Sometimes rules are shit. They’re often in place for the benefit of people who would eat crayons unless they said “do not eat” down the sides. Yet sometimes they’re there to try and safeguard against you accidentally destroy a red squirrel habitat.
There aren't any red squirrels in London.
There aren’t any red squirrels in London.
Because of all the dirt jumps? 😈
Kids are kids.
That's not a resolution to the problem. Do you have any constructive advice about how the dispute can be resolved? "Everyone can go **** themselves" does not resolve it, it's just a way of avoiding having to deal with it.
Do you have any constructive advice about how the dispute can be resolved?
Actually, given that 'official' avenues seem to have been tried, and exhausted, then perhaps a bit of civil disobedience is in fact in order. I've seen BMX tracks built, where kids have tried for years to get the local council to help them build one, and have been turned down, so they build their own jumps anyway, until the council gives in and properly funds one. If you want something enough, keep hammering away until you get it.
What advice would you give?
Because of all the dirt jumps? 😈
Ha ha! Yeah, totally. It's all the kids' fault. 😉
... kids have tried to get ‘permission’, the local council have been obstructive, so what do you expect to happen? Kids are kids.
My advice would be for them to find an adult who cares and has some understanding of the problem and process and get that adult to help them work their way through the system (I think I suggested this several posts ago). It sounds to me like they are getting bad advice from the adults in their lives, saying "crack on, what do the council expect".
My advice would be for them to find an adult
So how does that help them find their own way in life, if they feel they have to have their hands held at every turn?
What advice would you give?
I already gave advice early in the thread. If you want to resolve the dispute, you will have to do it by talking to the people you disagree with and persuading them that you can work together. If that's not possible, then the dispute won't be resolved.
If that’s not possible, then the dispute won’t be resolved.
So then what?
So then what?
Then it's not resolved and the OP will be disappointed.
So how does that help them find their own way in life, if they feel they have to have their hands held at every turn?
See it as an apprenticeship, they are learning how to use the system, they won't be kids for ever some of this is about turning them into decent adults
It's also about building relationships, the council will struggle to do that with kids, it's far easier with an adult (that's 18 not 81) who can bridge from the kids to the council and from the council to the kids. It's far easier to get a decent compromise if you have someone who can understand both sides of the issue
Where on Wimbledon common,
Locals only!
Hahahahahhaah hahahahha hahaha haha haha hahahahah hah ha ha ha…
I thought this was going to be like the Surrey Hills doubles. I’d barely even call those jumps. They are certainly not dangerous.
I can assure you that similar 'jumps' which appear and disappear in the woods near me can be very highly dangerous to middle aged blokes who failed to learn to jump as kids.
re. Wim Common,which I used to live on the very edge of... nothing built on the common is secret. Don't even pretend to think it is. You're probably recycling a cross country course - people run on most of every inch of track in that place, and know it inside out,
Cutting down trees is asking for deserved trouble. And contributes to keeping bikes banned from the bits they should be allowed
Update on the situation for anyone interested:
Yesterday I was out riding and (not much digging going on, just riding) and the parks patrol came down and started telling people to stop riding or risk a 60 pound fine. The only paths you are able to ride down are the mains paths. There are currently no signs saying this but when I asked they said it wasn't a new thing. A lot of the riders will have no idea about this so there will be conflict if they come back and catch people riding/digging. I can't seem to find anything in the bylaws about not being able to ride so it is a bit of a suprise change.
I am no longer a minor so more worried about recieving a fine. I have spent so much money on my new bike that I don't want to risk a fine or even getting my name taken down.
The email to the council is still in the works, but I have turned my attention to another piece of land - a small piece of land that is owned by the Royal Parks but outside the park wall. It has great elevation and a bit of trail alreay carved in. There is atleast enough space for two lines and maybe even a pushup.
Maps and google streetview:
In this pic the blue line is where the proposed trail would go:
I have sent off a formal email to the Royal Parks so will update when they get back to me. Hoping for the best anyway.
I'd love to see how they are going to start fining you £60 when they have no authority to take your details. How are they going to track you down if you don't pay the fine? It's not like your driving a vehicle which is registered to you. Sound like a bunch of overzealous tits.
Byelaws are here -
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/council/decision_making_council/byelaws_and_local_legislation
There’s a specific rule in the commons page about not cycling except where allowed (law 7b).
FWIW, the Teddington jump track has got some massive (to a 45yo mincer) gap jumps on it now, so I reckon that’s where the kids need to be hanging out in the Council’s eyes.
@Jimddubleyou
Thanks for the bylaw, I did spend a while looking in those but the wording is wordy and I must have missed it. However, unlike some commons East Sheen doesn't have any signs saying you can't cycle IIRC, but I'll have another look when I'm there next.
As mentioned above, unfortunately the council does love to tell people to go to TL, but I feel it is dangerous and very much tailored to the DJ/BMX, which most MTBers don't have. Also it becomes very crowded at weekends. The advantage of having another area would share the load and give access to people who live in Sheen/North Richmond.
@belgianwaffle1 - fair points on Teddington, it’s a massive borough and there’s definitely room for more facilities.
I think you’re onto a loser with the Royal Parks, but good luck nonetheless! That whole ridge line (within the park) has potential for more than a couple of blue rated trails.
@jumdubleyou
Funilly enough the only reason that I know that stretch of land is still Royal Park's is because I tried to dig there myself thinking it was a kind of no man's land. 10 minutes in a guy told me to stop and that I should contact them directly. He mentioned that it could become a trail so that is why I am giving it a go. The rest of the park is obviously off limits as it is very well protected. Let's see what they say anyway.
I’d love to see how they are going to start fining you £60 when they have no authority to take your details.
of course they have if you are doing something against the law.
I'm struggling to see anyone being prepared to give you permission to build a trail that close to the road. Cycle path maybe, jump line, no chance.
I also think you're onto a loser if you're planning anything on a site with byelaws against cycling, immediately moves you out of civil law into criminal (although you'd already have crossed from trespass to criminal damage if there was any significant building).
Good luck but don't hold your breath.
PS given any thought to long term maintenance, construction methods etc.? If by some fluke they do engage they will have lots of questions, you need to be prepared.
the parks patrol came down and started telling people to stop riding or risk a 60 pound fine.
...
I don’t want to risk a fine or even getting my name taken down.
How's that going to work? "That'll be £60." Sorry squire, no money on me. "Right, I'm taking your name and address." B Johnson, 10 Downing Street, London. "Got any ID?" No. Tatty bye!
Sounds to me an awful lot like they made up the fine idea to try and discourage you. Who do they work for, the council?
of course they have if you are doing something against the law.
The police don't have the authority to randomly take your details unless they're detaining you, let alone a glorified gardener.
@tjagain were talking about park patrol not the police. The police can take your details if you are under caution. If your not under caution you can just walk away and they can't do anything.
Sorry I missed it was park patrol
As regards the police - then they simply caution you.
I very much doubt with the amount the police budget has been cut in the last 10 years that the police will be on patrol with the overzealous park patrol (council). I'd imagine with the serious amount of knife/gang crime in London the police will be focusing their time on these criminals opposed to some kids building jumps on private land.
Not really holding my breath on anything at the moment unfortunately.
given any thought to long term maintenance, construction methods etc.? If by some fluke they do engage they will have lots of questions, you need to be prepared.
In quite a naive way, no I haven't thought of that. Really I'm just seeing if there is a chance and if there is then I will have to go away and create a really good plan.
I’m struggling to see anyone being prepared to give you permission to build a trail that close to the road. Cycle path maybe, jump line, no chance.
It's hard to see in the photos but there is atlease 15m between the road and the wall, and a large line of trees seperating it. It gets thinner the lower you go down the road so the features would have to stop sooner.
Looking at starting a petition and I am wondering where to do it - maybe change.org or gov.uk? Really looking for the one that would be noticed the most by the council.
There has been a nextdoor post posted by a mother of one of the children who rides on the common:
Seems to be quite a lot of support.
Went there today and conditions where very good, even learnt how to whip finally. Unfortunately most jumps have been taken down so I had to make do.
Seems to be quite a lot of support.
There always is when somebody else needs to do something
Unless you find a few adults to take a lead and bridge between riders and the council it's going nowhere
Signing a petition asking for others to do something, fill your boots, they'll still flatten the jumps
Obvioulsy the petition is not even going to be close to resolving the issue. I just want it to be a gauge to measure the support for the legitimisation of building trails in the area. Also a way to mark the start of a campaign to change rules in the area.
Some well written letters and planning will give us the best chance I think. Richmond council doesn't really care about the interests of children as that is not who is voting for them so we need to show there is support from all ages.
Some well written letters and planning will give us the best chance I think.
Well written letters saying something must be done by someone else will give you give you two hopes, unfortunately Bob is dead
Unless you can find someone the council can work with who the diggers will listen to how on earth do you expect the council with their duty of care responsibilities to sign off on anything?
Article just came out on LBC:
The council say they are clamping down on any digging in the park, however Diana says her son was not doing this and only used what was there in the park already.
Similarly, James said he and his daughter were just cycling, adding: “We are not shovelers - it is too much like hard work.”
Richmond Council response
A spokesperson for the Richmond Council Parks Service told LBC: “Responsible cycling on designated paths is not only allowed but is a great form of exercise, however there has been a recent issue with some users digging in the woodland area of Sheen Common to create off-road trails with ramps and dips."This activity is damaging to this important habitat and presents a risk to other users and is therefore not permitted. Anyone causing damage to the common could be fined as a result.
"Parkguard patrol are responsible for making sure park users, including children, know that cycling is only allowed on designated paths and ensuring that the public are aware of any fines that could be enforced under the council’s PSPO.”
belgianwaffle1
Free Member
So the council have started cracking down on the massive digging activity at my local.For context, I live in SW London, and it is a forest owned by the National Trust on loan to Richmond Council. The jumps have been there since 2009 but recently there has been a flurry of activity with lots of peopl building and riding the jumps. These have been great fun and have improved my skills and confidence a lot.
Now, the not so great part.
The council has picked up on this and the environmental board is not happy. Last week, all the jumps were knocked down and berms flattened etc. This made a lot of 11-14 year olds not very happy at all. On came yesterday, and 25 people with shovels came down and rebuilt it all within a matter of hours.
Then a disgruntled older lady who I had never met before but seemed to have a reputation for being unhappy came down to the jumps and started taking pix of all of the jumps and argued that people could fall over them in the dark and that it was very expensive to repair (1000s of pounds).
The issue is that there will always be a demand for more jumps and a ready supply of boys with shovels geared up to make new jumps. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar situation and managed to resolve it? We are drafting a letter to the council at the mo but doesn’t look super promising.
TIA.
No, it doesn't. Your gang of kids with shovels has zero chance of getting permission now. They have put themselves in the position of being outlaws with nobody willing to publicly support them.
Reasonably positive LBC article. The council come off pretty badly. Sounds like they'd be more amenable if they had a few more complaints about dog walkers to even up the numbers
Reasonably positive LBC article.
Not really. The council has said that cycling on the main paths isn't a problem, but that they are concerned about unauthorized digging. The cyclists quoted denied having anything to do with digging. Nobody is willing to come out and publicly support the kids who were doing the digging. The OP wanted to know how to get permission for digging. Having nobody willing to publicly advocate for digging means that there is zero chance of getting permission for it.
Reasonably positive LBC article. The council come off pretty badly. Sounds like they’d be more amenable if they had a few more complaints about dog walkers to even up the numbers
Unfortunately dog walkers vote and tend to get very ranty when they can't take Fenton wherever they want. Kids who don't vote and can't find an adult to talk to the council are going to struggle
Just how is this any issue what so ever? If the owner wishes something to happen then thats that. Unless there is legislation to say otherwise. Anything else is pure selfish greed.
Not really.
You've obviously not read many other articles about cycling in the local press. That really does count as reasonably positive
Yeah I must say this is a bit dissapointing that no adult is coming out in full support (as @big_n_daft predicted).
The council say they are clamping down on any digging in the park, however Diana says her son was not doing this and only used what was there in the park already.
This is untrue as I know the guy. Don't know why she didn't have the balls to just admit it and move forwards.
Seems like a bit of a dead end at the moment.
Just how is this any issue what so ever? If the owner wishes something to happen then thats that. Unless there is legislation to say otherwise. Anything else is pure selfish greed.
To be fair it's probably kids being kids and it's gone to far, there is lots to be said for encouraging healthy outdoor activities as a diversion from other more problematic things to occupy their time. The question is whether this is the right place, can be brought under a semblance of control and can stakeholders be appeased. All it takes is one person 18+ who is prepared to step up and enter a dialogue. It may not work but it's worth trying
pure selfish greed.
There are vast areas of the UK that are completely out of bounds to the general public as they are privately owned, a lot of the time by extremely rich people who rarely set foot on said land. Perfect example is a lot of the moors on the eastern Pennines, lots of it is owned by Arab royals who turn up in their chauffeur driven Range Rovers to shoot grouse for a few weeks a year and because of this no one else is allowed to ride bikes or horses at any time, this is 'pure selfish greed' by my definition, kids building dirt jumps is definitely NOT, its kids being kids. As far as building jumps in South London goes I can't offer any helpful advice but wish op the best of luck, you would think anything that helps steer kids away from gangs/crime would be a no brainer these days
Who is actually threatening fines? A private security firm? I'm not sure of the relevant law, but might it actually be an offence of some kind, to demand money, especially from children, for something I'm not sure even the park's owners are legally allowed to do?
Good LBC article. More power to the kidz!
There are vast areas of the UK that are completely out of bounds to the general public as they are privately owned, a lot of the time by extremely rich people who rarely set foot on said land. Perfect example is a lot of the moors on the eastern Pennines, lots of it is owned by ....s who turn up in their chauffeur driven Range Rovers to shoot grouse for a few weeks a year and because of this no one else is allowed to ride bikes or horses at any time, this is ‘pure selfish greed’ by my definition
Their nationality/ethnic origin/whatever is irrelevant, plenty of home-grown *s who 'own' land, but I agree with that 100%. It's not farmland, responsible and careful use harms nobody, and restricting it's access is just privileged selfish *ishness.
It looks like Richmond Council are paying a private firm 'Parkguard' to enforce rules.
I don't know what they can or cannot enforce really, so I can't comment on that.
Their nationality/ethnic origin/whatever is irrelevant, plenty of home-grown ****s who ‘own’ land
Agreed
I don’t know what they can or cannot enforce really, so I can’t comment on that.
The council has the power to levy fines, they devolve that to their agents who may or may not be directly employees