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I used buffalo and other pertex and pile stuff for years and finally came round to the conclusion that it was useless for anything other than standing around.
I used to have one. Boiled to death doing any activity, couldn't strip layers, still got soaked in the rain. Not ideal.
I have a Special 6 shirt that is around 30 years old. It was too warm for about the first 10 years but eventually the pile wears thin enough to be just right. I now where it all of the time, I bloody love it.
I think I do need to get it repaired a few tears where the pertex is a bit thin but thats fair enough after 30 years of use and serious abuse.
I'll confess to having a bit of a man crush on Ben Fogle as well.
so ideal for bivvying in?
Big/bulky for the insulation content. There are much better options.
Love my (quite worn so not as warm as it was) special 6 shirt for winter hillwalking and mountaineering. Must be 25 years old. It’s got to be next to skin so it wicks properly and you can get proper venting going on. With a base layer it’s rubbish as the base layer gets damp. If it gets wet it stays warm and dries quickly. Not found a more versatile option or one I find so reliable for typical Scottish conditions.
saves carrying a sleeping bag!
I’ve got a couple of cheap Mil-spec copies of the standard Buffalo mountain shirt, which I wear a lot in cooler weather; the only real issue is being a smock top they’re a bit of a pain to take off when going indoors for any length of time.
I’ve also got a Special 6 that I bought with a bit of a discount, and which saw me through three winters of ten hour days spent outdoors all day. All I wore underneath was a Helly Lifa, and if it was raining I wore a £20 Peter Storm lightweight waterproof over the top with my obligatory hi-viz vest on top. I was never too hot, because of its breathability, and never got wet because the cheap waterproof kept the majority of the water off, so only the surface of the Buffalo got a damp sheen on it. It was vastly superior to the shitty PU nylon hi-viz jackets we were issued, which turned the wearer into a boil-in-the-bag human, and were just really uncomfortable.
I can honestly say that the Special 6 turned what was an awful, miserable experience into something actually tolerable.
I stopped wearing it when the new owner of the company issued us with much better wet weather clothing, the hi-viz jackets were breathable Portwest ones, which were properly designed with a high collar and a really good hood. I’ve still got mine, it could do with a wash, but it lives in the car for unexpected wet weather wear.
so ideal for bivvying in.
As Scotroutes says, they're very bulky and you'd probably still want a sleeping bag in all but summer conditions.
I think they have a place for low energy activities and very cold conditions but they're not at all versatile and there are much better options now. Prices also a bit steeper now, no longer the cheaper option they used to be.
How does that actually work
It doesn't in my experience, it just makes you feel really clammy and uncomfortable. I found any strenuous activity in a Buffalo made me sweat a lot then as soon as I slowed down or stopped I got chilled.
I found it great for piste skiing in very cold conditions and marshalling at hill races but poor for anything active.
Next to skin - worked for me, my go to freezing and below winters day top was once yellow and purple with a crotch strap, you just side zipped up and down as required,I liked it , I was warm and didn’t feel like Michelin man fighting 3 or 4 layers. I’m also pretty sure that after a torrential downpour I managed to get it back to useable by a vigorous manual spinning. Contemplates raiding the old clothes bin for this winter…….
I have a Buffalo pile shirt (bought when I wanted something for fun* trips to SENTA back in the day) that nbow gets used as a warm-up top for turbo work in the winter. It's perfect for that. It was quite heavy/bulky for use out on hills, but was warm.
I've an original and it's great under a boiler suit offshore north sea in winter.
Seen the current price. - laughed
Found something more suitable.
Still use my buffalo loads when full winter is here but I don't sweat much even when active.
I am glad to see investment in the brand but the comments here and the prices have put me off ever buying anything from them. Back in the early 90's they seemed popular as a cost effective option iirc.
They've always been expensive. It's the premium you pay for UK made kit.
They've always been expensive. It's the premium you pay for UK made kit.
I don't think they have. I remember buying one back in the day for winter climbing because it was cheaper than the alternative of base layer+fleece+hardshell.
But in heavy rain you need a hard shell over one 🤦♂️
Their basic Pertex wind shirt was very popular among my mates in early 2000s. At that time you could often get a Montane Pertex in a sale for £25. Happy days.
I wonder if they will revive the heritage piece and bring the original logo back.
Mine is 30 years old. They weren't expensive then, about £100. I really like mine although it is rarely worn. Now I'm a bit older and feel the cold more I've even worn it on a couple of really horrible cold and wet night rides. I've never really liked waterproofs, water will get in eventually, they're too fragile and my current ME one feels like you're wearing a crisp packet. I wouldn't buy another Buffalo shirt at those prices but I don't need another one as the original is still going strong.
They've always been expensive. It's the premium you pay for UK made kit.
I wouldnt have one if this was the case ..... they are 250 quid now.
As a slight tangent, whatever happened to Javlin jackets? I bought one to fit in with the hard men at the uni mountaineering club (failed, as you might imagine) but I haven’t seen one since.
I see they've massively cut down the product range. Makes a lot of sense though as it was unlikely a shop would ever have wanted to stock so many variations on the jackets and so on. No more 'buffalo sleep system' for instance, not that I ever saw one in use but I did think they might be quite nice for car camping. And no kids range.
Paramo are the new Buffalo . Basically the same concept of being damp and comfortable.
Javlin jackets are gone, modern alternatives are better.
I had a look into pricing. I paid about £70 in 1995 but that was with a bulk purchase discount, so I guess RRP was around £100 (tallies with Stevenmenmuir thinking). According to Bank of England inflation calculator, that should cost £207 now. Cheapest I can find Special 6 shirt online is around £218, so pretty close.
Paramo are the new Buffalo
Not sure if I agree. Paramo claim to be waterproof and focus on this more than warmth. Buffalo have never claimed to be waterproof, but do claim to be super cosy.
Mine is 30 years old. They weren't expensive then, about £100. I really like mine although it is rarely worn. Now I'm a bit older and feel the cold more I've even worn it on a couple of really horrible cold and wet night rides. I've never really liked waterproofs, water will get in eventually, they're too fragile and my current ME one feels like you're wearing a crisp packet. I wouldn't buy another Buffalo shirt at those prices but I don't need another one as the original is still going strong.
’paramo are the new buffalo’
proud paramo owner. Never been drier?
warmth? They recommend wearing their Torres insulators over their waterproof as conditions dictate.
leaves your skin so dry, it feels like sunburn!
Classic 'Marmite' product.
I'm a massive fan, but I don't have the genuine item, just the Montane clone. Montane updated it and got it made abroad. My new second hand Montane is stupid warm, my old clapped out one is perfect, plus you get a free body scrub from the old and crispy pile inner. 😁
Back in the day Buffalo would do repairs and tales were told of the smocks being returned with a gentle whiff of Benson and Hedges.
I have a Paramo Halkon jacket. Comparisons with otters’ pockets come to mind.
Classic 'Marmite' product.
As is Paramo, so there's something they have in common!
As is Paramo, so there's something they have in common!
Agreed. I was issued Paramo in mountain rescue and rarely wore it. Not warm enough in winter, too warm in summer and not waterproof enough any time of the year. Others swore by it though as being the best thing ever.
As a slight tangent, whatever happened to Javlin jackets?
All been thrown away…
For the thing they do, they fill a need. Unfortunately that thing isn't mountain biking that involves anything over Z2 in any temp over about 5degs
I've been more than happy with mine over the past decade or thereabouts. I've two. A bike specific one and a nice grey i got off 'as new' someone from on here.
I wear them 10 months of the year.pretty much daily. Ebike, so not pushing it enough to get sweaty. Winter though with a jumper under it it feels insulated enough.
I've had a Special 6 for about 25 years. Far too warm most of the time, generally just for winter dog walking duty nowadays. On the other hand, for xc skiing below -20C it was ideal!
This is the Highlander Halo I’ve got, unlike Buffalo jackets it’s got a hood built into the collar, the inside of the collar is lined with a microfleece, which is the same as the jacket lining.
I love it, it’s just the right weight, and it’s not too hot when moving around, and it’s got pit zips as well.
I’m just about to go along to the archery range for a couple of hours, it’s pretty windy and where I shoot is shaded, and the wind is NE, which means it’s not particularly sheltered from that direction, so standing and walking it’s ideal.
https://highlander-outdoor.com/products/halo-smock-jacket-black?variant=43726226817308
I'll confess to having a bit of a man crush on Ben Fogle as well.
I had breakfast with him in Kenya, a day or two before the Safaricom Marathon, years ago. We chatted about bikes, James Cracknell and how he dealt with being a c'leb. He was nice enough - posh, polite, a little entitled. He later wrote that he'd run the marathon- he hadn't, he'd run the half. A small point which seemed to sum him up for me.
Bought a Buffalo during lockdown, nice and warm, loved it. So much that on a cold icy day, it was keeping me toasty with a merino top underneath whilst I went for a solo run / walk. Unfortunately I missed the ice under the snow, slipped and shattered my collar bone. Went to hospital where due to the lockdown they stood on the other side of the room and diagnosed from a distance what I already knew. I was thrown a sling and told to get out!!! I slept in my Buffalo that night, knowing I'd be feeling much better the following day and I'd be able to lift it up over my shoulders. Needless to say there wasn't a chance of that happening, and my wife had to cut off both the merino and Buffalo. I've had to buy anther since! So yes they are expensive!!
They don't replace three or four layers. It's just thick one sided fleece* and a thin shell, that's all. You can use your own shell and your own thick fleece and get the same result because it's the same. Except if you get hot you can't remove one layer and just have to put up with it.
* the stuff they used to make cheap teddies out of before everything got taken over by Squishmallows and Beanie Boos
As is Paramo, so there's something they have in common!
Agreed. I was issued Paramo in mountain rescue and rarely wore it. Not warm enough in winter, too warm in summer and not waterproof enough any time of the year. Others swore by it though as being the best thing ever.
Admittedly its been 25 years but I bought some paramo trousers and had exactly the same experience. Even when freshly washed and waxed you still get a wet arse if you sat down. Conversely the spray way goretex trousers I bought to replace them are still working well! 😃
FWIW I also bought a Special 6 around the same time. Fine for winter days out climbing and hiking in North Wales but too limited for almost any other use case. It lives in the cupboard for sentimental reasons.
@johnnystorm - it sounds like you could easily sell it on here ...
You’re supposed to unzip the sides if you feel hot.
Needless to say there wasn't a chance of that happening, and my wife had to cut off both the merino and Buffalo. I've had to buy anther since! So yes they are expensive!!
Shirley, all that was needed was for the zips to all be undone, the Velcro closures tucked out of the way, and the jacket pulled over your head? I do know what a broken collarbone is like, having broken mine, and it taken around twelve years for me to realise what I’d done. My doctor didn’t tell me when I saw him a month or two after the incident. So I was pulling shirts and jackets on and off and putting up with the ‘discomfort’. 🤬
You’re supposed to unzip the sides if you feel hot.
That’s one advantage of the Highlander Halo I posted up 👆🏻. Buffalo jackets, and I assume they’re all the same, have a zip that runs from the hem to the armpit, with a zipper at each end, the Halo has a longish zip up from the hem, but a separate zip up in the armpit that unzips down the inside of the arm, which allows a bit more control.
I did wear mine the other afternoon whilst shooting, and it was ideal. I had a single layer underneath, but I was in the shade with quite a strong Easterly wind from directly behind, so I had no sun at all, and with the neck zip down, and the pit zips down as well, I was perfectly comfortable. If I’d been shooting on the opposite side, I’d have been in a tee shirt and shorts.
Just to emphasise, the Halo is microfleece, not a Sherpa-type fleece, like the Special 6 has; that makes all the difference if you’re being fairly active - a Helly or similar would probably be ideal if you’re doing something fairly active, and not just out for a stroll or walking the dog.
You’re supposed to unzip the sides if you feel hot.
So the cold wind blows on your bare skin? Seems a bit of an uncomfortable business.
So the cold wind blows on your bare skin? Seems a bit of an uncomfortable business.
That sounds like theory looking for problems.
The lining is pile rather than fleece and aggressively hydrophobic, which is why it stays dry - basically water just runs out of it rather than fancifully wicking its way to the surface and evaporating. I had climbing mates in the 1980s who swore by the stuff and it hasn't really changed since then. To be fair, it works pretty well in typical cold, damp, Scottish winter mountaineering conditions as a fabric system, but the cut and design are archaic, it's crap for mobility, and for a lot of people it's way too warm for active use unless they run really cold or it's way sub-zero out.
It's the technical clothing equivalent of a Series 2 Land Rover and what would have happened if Land Rover had never bothered to move on from that.
That's all fine if what you want is a Series 2 Land Rover, but personally I'd rather not look like someone wearing a Pertex potato sack with a hood and some zips tacked on and pay more than 300 quid for the privilege. Polartec Alpha Direct in various weights is a lighter, more effective modern take on a similar concept and, ironically given how expensive that stuff is, a more affordable one too. Not as durable tbf.
I kind of think Buffalo has missed a trick in a 'it's fine as it is, why change it?' sort of way, which means it's always going to be a niche clothing system aimed squarely at people who sigh wistfully at the memory of times when everyone wore soggy RonHill Tracksters and had special mirrors at home to convince them that they looked good in them. YMMV.
Ben Fogle? Self-publicising, floppy-haired posh boy. Maybe he'll change the brand for the better, who knows.
I have a montane extreme jacket which is a better looking version of a buffalo. I got it cheap which is a good thing, otherwise it would have been a waste of money. It is good for a very small range of conditions and either get soaked or too hot for the rest of the time.
I don't want to imagine how sweaty it would be to use for biking (would have to be about -10)
So the cold wind blows on your bare skin? Seems a bit of an uncomfortable business.
Weird though it sounds, it's actually pretty effective.
I've worn my P&P Buffalo twice in the past 12 years. Both times it was ideal, but I'd carefully chosen it due to the conditions. Given I'm out walking, running or cycling almost every day, and that I live in the Cairngorms, that'll give you an idea of how useful it is. Yeah, the theory is that you stay dry under it but that requires that you keep moving and generating body heat to "pump" it through. Stop for any length of time and you'll still need a hardshell outer.
I have a fairly old Mountain Equipment "softshell" too. That has a Pertex later over a microfleece inner, and also has zip-off sleeves. That's a lot more flexible.
Deleted, double post
I have a montane extreme jacket which is a better looking version of a buffalo. I got it cheap which is a good thing, otherwise it would have been a waste of money. It is good for a very small range of conditions and either get soaked or too hot for the rest of the time.
I don't want to imagine how sweaty it would be to use for biking (would have to be about -10)
Have to agree with this, exactly matches my experience. For me, the newer breed of jackets with a Pertex outer and a Polartec Alpha Direct lining take the same concept but improve it dramatically in most conditions (PAD developed for special forces to be light but still offer insulation when wet)...and better for higher intensity activities.
I don't want to imagine how sweaty it would be to use for biking (would have to be about -10)
Mine kept me going through a cold* edition of the Puffer
*cold enough that I had to see an optician afterwards, turns out the moisture on my eyes had frozen causing superficial scratches to the eyeball surface
Common critique of Buffalo stuff is that it's too hot for owt other than extreme conditions. The vapourise stuff seems much more useable for the opposite reason. The first buffalo I had eons ago was a very thin pile and pertex top and was excellent, not too heavy either. Great for canoeing under a cage. Modern one was just stifling and on me a big bungle suit.
Nowadays there are so many good bits of kit to choose from - warmer/lighter/more packable/sexier , and arguably better value
I've got an alpkit Jura buffalo copy. It's a bit lighter weight than many others, by all accounts. I think it's ace for being active in cold conditions e.g. when out walking around zero degrees c. I also like the venting options, particularly if lugging a big backpack around - means you don't have to take the pack off to adjust layers/temperature. It's been great for winter backpacking expeditions.
I've generally worn it with a base layer rather than right against my skin.
I haven't tried it in any properly orrible wet conditions though.
I haven't tried it in any properly orrible wet conditions though.
That’s what a cheap Peter Storm is for, an outer barrier that keeps the worst of the water off. Worked for me through several winters.
I do have another Buffalo, one of their earliest, an MTB Wind Shirt. It originally had a strap between the legs, but the click buckle, which may have been fine for climbing, which it was originally designed for, really wasn’t much fun when sitting on it, so I had a seamstress cut it off and re-hem the bottom.
It was perfect for wearing on the bike today, it was warm in the sun, but the wind was fairly cool, especially later in the afternoon.
Packs down pretty small, ‘cos it doesn’t have a lining.
I’ve got a Buffalo sleeping bag that must be over 30 years old. Grey shell, bright red pile. Big and bulky when packed but fine from out the back of the car. What I do like about it is the central zip and shaped hood. I find that much better than a left or right handed zip on so many other bags. And I am less worried about getting it dirty as it’s easy to wash.
I expect that Buffalo may sell well to the new demographic: older e-bikers who won’t boil up under normal pedalling conditions, but who want to stay cosy when they stop for a cuppa.
something that’s easy to wash and offers a myriad of venting options?
Another one here who wore Buffalo endlessly from about 1992 to 1999. Heck my first ever Christmas present to a new girlfriend, unknowingly soon to be mrs_oab, was a grey outer/red pile inner Buffalo found in the Outside sale... They have their place. They do work.
I've even used Buffalo salopettes, sleeping bags and bivvy bags (all universally awful...).
But, the cut is awful, the price daft, and 'old tool' in performance.
I would say my current Rab VR's or old Montane version (Phoenix v1?) knocks spots off the Buffalo. It's better cut. Better pockets. Better fabrics. Better judged for moving outdoors. Drier and even more wicking. Better colour and image (shallow, but important when you're selling £250 bin bag like jackets).
I would even say my 'pertex knock off' Dare2B windproof jacket with a good baselayer and/or thin gridded fleece are better and more adaptable. And that cost £18...
Heck, I've even met Hamish a few times and was good pals with his daughter for many years....but what he designed while great in the 1980's and 1990's from a military background needs to stay there.
myriad of venting options?
A grid fleece or suchlike with a windproof over the top can be vented much more easily and effectively than a buffalo. It's just old tech so unless they do some sort of thrudark style marketing bollocks and/or find a new clientele then I suspect it's doomed as a brand.
Our SAR team has a couple of Buffalo casualty bags that we use with our stretchers. Awesome for snuggling around some poor soul who’s been stranded out in the cold and wet for hours on end.
I’ve not worn one of their smocks since the 90s as so many better layering options exist nowadays.
Fit is such a personal thing. My Buffalo shirt fits me as well as anything I own. It's certainly a better fit than the Rab VR I've got.
I bought the montane one 25 years ago for deploying to Norway. As I was mostly outside on the vehicle park, I wanted something warm and found the issued dew liners a bit restrictive when climbing in and out of BV206'S all the time.
It was awesome for the job. Regularly down to -20 and all I'd need was a t-shirt underneath with windproof trousers and low alpine floppy hat.
It was far too warm for ski touring but it was kept in the top of the bergen and was a god send for quick brew/fag stops.
It's still in great nick and used for winter dog walks and pub visits when we end up sitting outside. Dont use it for bikepacking (down jotnar for that) as its far too bulky.