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Any gas service people here?
I’ve just had my 13-year old Worcester boiler looked at by the chap that’s checked it in recent years. He says the heat exchanger needs replacing, which is very costly, or just buy a new boiler which costs three times as much fitted. Option 1 has 1 yr warranty, option 2 10 years.
I really don’t know if he’s just after the extra cash for a new boiler, or if the replacement exchanger would do.
Can any gas engineers give me a steer? Assuming he’s not taking the pee, I’m leaning towards the new boiler.
(My house is too old and unsuitable for the £mega option of ground source heat pumps, etc, so I’ll stick to good old fashioned methane before someone miraculously finds enough spare hydrogen to pipe down all our streets.)
Personally I'd get a 2nd opinion then just change the heat exchanger if it really needs one.
But then I like to keep things going and think buying new is just a waste if the old one is still working ok (with new parts).
NB Our boiler is 30+ years old and I just replace parts when they break myself...
Daft question, is the boiler working/making a noise etc ? What's it doing ?
Combi or system boiler?
Combi I’d def replace at that age, you’ve done well. System I’m not so sure.
is the boiler working/making a noise etc ? What’s it doing ?
No obvious problem, but he says the exchanger is close to splitting. All exhaust is still contained and sealed though.
Combi I’d def replace at that age, you’ve done well.
Condenser/combi. Thanks for the suggestion.
Similar dilema here last year, though mine had three or four faults that added up to a bigger chunk of a new boiler.
I'm told that Worcester are expensive for spare parts and labour intensive to replace due to how much is packed into them these days. Also around 10-15 years does seem to be a typical lifespan of modern combi boilers.
I went with the new boiler, personally.
Our boiler is 30+ years old
Ha, indeed, my parents had central heating put in when I was about 3 or 4. The boiler had an open burner you could just stick your hands in(!) and lasted over 50 years trouble free. Modern gadgets, eh?
I went with the new boiler, personally.
Thanks, yes seems like long-term but expensive is the way to go.
I replaced our 40 year old Baxi a couple of years ago. Of course it wasn't a combi. Minimal attention required over the years apart from a mid life overhaul.
Along with better controls the new Worcester reduced gas consumption around 40%. Older isn't always better.
Probably a closer call replacing a relatively modern boiler which is efficient.
going through very similar at the moment. our Worcester Bosch combi boiler is a min 15 years old, but could be older (they stopped making the model 15 years ago). had to spend £300 on it last year and now needs another £400 of work to fix the current problem. we've decided to bite the bullet and go for a new boiler to save throwing good money after bad, as inevitably something else will go on the boiler in the next year or two.
c 15 years for a combi seems to be average lifespan and new boiler should be more efficient
if you do go for a new boiler, don't get British gas to quote - they were charging 25% more for the same boiler and work as the regional independent we're using!
Condenser/combi
just for the avoidance of doubt, and to ensure you’re operating on the right info. Hopefully no egg sucking here, apols if so.
Condensing: a method of improving efficiency. Can be applied to system and combi boilers.
Combi boiler: provides (nearly) instant hot water, provides heating in a seperate water circuit.
System boiler: heats a single circuit of water. A seperate system of motorised valves diverts water to heating and to a hot water storage tank (aka the immersion).
My wb combi is 25 years old . Still on original heat exchanger somehow. I suspect the decent amount of inhibitors and running it cold after firing has prolonged it's life.
Probably the wrong side of £300 for a fitted heat exchanger or £1500 for new boiler fitted.
We're in a similar position here and opted to replace ours and had the work done yesterday (system boiler).
We had a heat only boiler before (12 years old) so had the added bonus of removing the separate pump from the landing cupboard. This has made the house far quieter and I get everything wrapped up in the 10 year warranty.
For me, this should limit my outlay for the warranty period to just servicing (I hope).
If you're planning on staying in the property indefinitely then I would opt for a new boiler. Based on a 10-15 year lifespan, it works out at £200-300 per annum for the new boiler vs £267 - £400 for the repair plus the inevitable additional replacement boiler - it's unlikely the repair will last up to 15 years (this also excludes other breakdowns outside of the heat exchanger warranty which could add to the costs).
All you're really doing is pulling forward the new investment sooner than you perhaps would have hoped. Consider the product lifecycle per annum rather than the capital outlay.
If you're moving within the next couple of years, go for the repair instead.
Interesting reading:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/worcester-greenstar-24i-system-ng-part-issue.556128/
For me it would be about improved efficiency of a new one over the old, Vs purchase cost... assuming your not planning on moving house in the next 5 or 10 years.
Just a matter of trying to do the maths really.
it’s unlikely the repair will last up to 15 years
It should last the same age as the existing boiler, as it's the same part operating under the same conditions. In the OP's case another 13 years.
You might need a new pump or fan at some point down the line, but just pay for those if and when needed...
For me it would be about improved efficiency of a new one over the old, Vs purchase cost
Depends on your bills. Eg our boiler isn't condensing, but the cost of a new one vs the efficiency saving on our bills means payback is over 10 years, which isn't a compelling business case for me.
I'm in the replace camp
Not only do you get to hedge your future costs for another 10 years, but you get the latest controls.
Efficiency of consumption is derived from a number of factors in addition to basic combustion stochiometry and heat recovery (condenser)
Integrated pumps and zone valves, independent HW and heating flow temps, auto modulation and grades of modulation, and better intelligence in the electronics all contribute.
My 2yo Worcester 4000 system boiler has all of these features and is so clever that even adding weather compensation only increases it efficiency by 2%. Ordinarily its reckoned that WC adds 5 to 10%.
I’m in the replace camp
Not only do you get to hedge your future costs for another 10 years, but you get the latest controls.
me too (repeating myself) because:
You might need a new pump or fan at some point down the line
then you’ve got new everything and less likely to find yourself cold and looking for an emergency plumber.
No obvious problem, but he says the exchanger is close to splitting.
I'm sorry but that is absolute horseshit.
How can he tell its "close to splitting"? Have plumbers started doing NDT now? I doubt it.
Get a second opinion.
I would carry on using it until it actually broke down and worry about it then.
no egg sucking here,
No, that was helplful, tks.
Thanks, everyone. Very helpful comments. Decision time. (New one)
Buy new boiler . Store in a dry place. Ask boiler guru how he knows the HE is about to split. Monitor the tell tale signs ( if any , I'm dubious tbh) .
If there are significant signs of degradation get it changed. If not , crack on as is .
The drawback of the plan is yes , you may have a replacement sitting ready to go, but the availablity of an engineer to fit it within a sensible time frame
Decision time. (New one)
Can I have your still working old one please?
Just read some of the thread in the diynot link.
A 'recon' heat exchanger off ebay for £65. Hmmm... what could POSSIBLY be dodgy or go wrong with that 🤔🙈☠️
24yr old oil combi here, also WB. At the last call out I asked my service guy, "Maybe time for a new one?" Don't be soft, says he; the only thing that hasn't been replaced is the case, it's good for another 20yrs! 🤣🤣
No obvious problem, but he says the exchanger is close to splitting.
I don't believe he could diagnose that from an external inspection. Ours wouldn't maintain pressure when it did fail last year, also a Worcester Bosch of a similar vintage. £900 vs. c.£2.5k. We had the new exchanger, rest of the boiler works great and if you're replacing a condensing combi with another, not much running cost saving to offset the difference.
OK, sceptics, I was protecting the gasman - he showed me a pinhole leak on the exhaust side, but all contained within the sealed unit into the exit pipe.
So yes something needs to be replaced.
[s] Just to expand on my earlier answer, it's a plate heat exchanger, besides the two end plates there is very little to see that would crack and given the pressures it works at if it did I'd be very concerned. Any corrosion would be internal so you can't see it anyway.
If anything it would block and even then they can possibly be flushed out if you catch it in time. So long as you've been treating your system properly and have a decent filter then there is nothing to worry about.
Not a plumber but have many years of operating experience of heat exchangers working a hell of a lot harder than a domestic boiler. If your guy really is convinced tell him the NDT industry would write him a cheque for any number he wants with those skills.[/s]
Protecting? That's a completely different story! How do you expect useful advice if you don't tell us what actually happened?
In that situation I'd be replacing the heat exchanger, maybe give it a birthday of parts are still good.
@squirrelking, they're not constructed like industrial plate heat exchangers, it's a large cast alloy box on the outside.
But yeah, it's actually leaking then. I'd still only be replacing the exchanger and not the whole boiler.
@tthew yeah I know, same principle though and still equally as impossible to see something "nearly crack". However given my assumptions were based on the wrong info it's all moot.
Bosch do fixed price repairs for somewhere around £300. I got them in after an independent engineer damaged the fan while replacing the electrodes at the top of the combustion chamber. The Bosch engineer replaced the fan, air / gas mix pipework (also broken by the indy) and the primary heat exchanger. Got about £900 worth of parts and labour over two visits so the fixed price repair worked well for me.
The Bosch engineer also worked out our original problem of the shower not reaching temperature was a combination of a clogged primary heat exchanger and the boiler having enough capacity to heat the flow rate we have here. Bought some inline flow rate reduction widgets from Amazon which have fixed the issue and also taken 25% off the water bill.
Monitor the tell tale signs
What are they? A leak, I assume?
if you’re replacing a condensing combi with another, not much running cost saving to offset the difference.
Hmm, if a newer boiler had a smarter integrated pump and a significantly better modulation ratio you could be saving a noticeable amount. Not necessarily enough to offset the entire purchase cost, I dunno.
I've just replaced my 12 year old wb 30cdi with a wb 4000 model.
I've had to replace a couple of plastic water manifolds earlier on this year, but they only cost about £25 from eBay and easy enough to do.
But the wife got it in her head that it would go tits up this winter and I went with Boxt as a straight swop was 2.1k with about a 7 year guarantee.
Edit I also have a £50 Amazon refer a friend code as well 👍
Bosch do fixed price repairs for somewhere around £300
I just came here to say this exact same thing. I worked in a boiler spares merchant for 14 years and I could count on the fingers of Jeremy Beadle's small hand the amount of Worcester Bosch main heat exchangers we sold in that time.. The fact that WB themselves will replace it for less than you can even buy the part makes it a complete no-brainer.