Repairing storm damage - how would you do this?

I spot Bambi and claim £5

Haven't we been here before??

[or was that not you?]

Trolley jack under the bricks to lift them back up and shuffle onto the wall and then dismantle and rebuild with new brick and aluminium?

Or leave it where it is and angle grinder along the side of the aluminium to ease it's grip on each sheet of glass to make it easier to remove - then remove the bricks/aluminium and start again?

Please ignore the weed.

That's a really big ask!

Cut the aluminium base where the glass meets so you only have to deal with x4 smaller sections?

Is attaching to brick ever going to be strong enough though? The glass is very heavy and the leverage on 1.5 bricks will be massive.

Can you get a small hoist, like and engine hoist on the end with the paving. You might be able to then move the hoist back and pivot the glass with bricks back on top of the wall?

Good luck and be careful.

Trolley jack is a good shout. I was thinking of a plank and leverage. [url= https://i.postimg.cc/xTt4Pfsh/Lift-Falled-Wall.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/xTt4Pfsh/Lift-Falled-Wall.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Cutting them into 4 might work but would look shit when I put them back together.

Have we been here before - Yes. It turns out that when the wall checked to see if it was strong enough, it was only checked in one area and that was bricks onto solid concrete. Unfortunately the rest of the wall base was not.

Can you buy a team of rugby players some beer in exchange for putting it back?

+1 on get some folk around to help in return for beer tokens....

Have we been here before – Yes

I thought he was talking about the ones out the front of your house that got smashed to buggary when he asked that (or maybe that wasn’t you).

i like the idea of a trolley jack under the end bricks while someone is at the same time pushing the top of the glass back towards the wall where it should be.  The problem with the plank is that there are two directions of force.  One is lifting the brick up but the other is also pulling it away from the wall.  At a minimum if you use a plank you want to screw in some sort of stop to avoid the glass/bricks sliding further down the plank as you apply force

I had always wondered if 1 1/2 bricks in was enough for the fixings especially as you don't know if the bottom half of the fixing is gripping properly if it hasn't been cleaned out well.

Cutting them into 4 might work but would look shit when I put them back together.

I'm not sure the aluminium channel is going to be reusable - it may be - depends on whether it has twisted.  I've only handled this type of balustrade before, am i right in thinking the glass effectively just drops in and is held by the seals?

while someone is at the same time pushing the top of the glass back towards the wall where it should be.

Sounds like a sure way to either bend the aluminium channel or break the glass - I'd be pushing/ pulling at brick level.

That was never going to work think applied mechanics and moments, if you never did this subject you may not have a clue what I'm on about but that height of heavy glass against one bed of mortar that looks like it's been infested by bugs and vegetation is like putting a heavyweight boxer against a flyweight boxer

I'm not a building engineer but served my time as a bricklayer and have an o grade in app mechs 

Smash it all up and chuck it away and it won’t be a bird strike risk ever again.

And for the rebuild, 1m of threaded rod fixed with resin into the new concrete foundation for the new wall. It might be worth redesigning with gaps between or under the glass panels to reduce the wind loading a bit.

Can you break the bricks off the bottom, or would that risk the glass? I assume there's not a bolt through every single brick (?), so most should tap out quite easily just breaking the mortar. Just have something ready to catch the glass when the counterweight's suddenly removed!

Failing that, just move the swing to the other side and wait for a storm in the other direction.

what are your plans for reconstructing it? I'd argue a baastrade that collapses when weight is applied is worse than no balastrated. I'd be calling the home insurance and getting someone to construct something thats better engineered

Cutting them into 4 might work but would look shit when I put them back together.

I’m not sure the aluminium channel is going to be reusable

This ^^^ +1, chop up the rail (remove what bricks you can first as per Ossify) saving the glass, then buy a new rail is going to be the 'best' option. I've picked up one of those a panes, they are flippin heavy, so would not be looking at doing it alone. I'd support the whole lot (not just one trolley jack) before you even think of starting & TBH this seems like a recipe for another WCA spectacular.

Why was there a bus shelter in your back garden?

Aluminium channel isn't too warped as the glass has held it straight

Glass just drops into the channel and held in with spacers. There is a slight bulge in the aluminium where the support wedge in the middle of the section is under max load.

The balustrade was absolutely firm when put in, and for at least a year afterwards, I think that the gentle but repeated rocking in the wind cracked the mortar allowing the brinck to seperate, It is a little worrying that this is meant to be safe for use up to 3m off the ground.

The challenge with doing any pushing from the other side is that the ground is 5 feet lower and the bushes block access.

I think the best approach is basically several people.
Something will break if you only lift at one point.

The other option might be that now you can get rid of your swing seat, support the glass and you've got a ready made, contemporary garden recliner.

Cutting them into 4 might work but would look shit when I put them back together.

The rebuild will be something more solid. The bit that was checked before install was brick faced wall with concrete filling behind and soldiers laid flat on top. That was absolutely solid but appears only to have been used for the wall along the side of the garage. The rest was made with cheese. We had the wall along the drive professionally rebuilt when that collapsed, the bit by the garage was fine, so this is the only remaining original wall section.

How about repurposing the glass into one of these?

What could possibly go wrong?

It is a little worrying that this is meant to be safe for use up to 3m off the ground.

Probably is if installed properly - but if bolted to some shonky brick-work then I'm amazed it lasted that long!

Did you honestly think 1.5 bricks deep was going to do the trick? Was it it actually the storm or did one of your squirrels fart next to it.

That needs actually design to be safe not just half arsed*.

*I am aware of the futility 😁

Aluminium channel isn’t too warped as the glass has held it straight

But your turning it into a mammoth task, just trying to save the price of a (comparatively) cheap ali rail, stop being daft. Even chopping it up, is going to be fraught with danger (this assume some level of bodgery)

I’d get a piece of angle iron and put it on the underside outside edge of the bricks and lift/push that so you’re pushing it as a whole and not adding more twisting forces to the aluminium/bricks.
Jack the angle iron up maybe one panel in from the end nearest the camera and wheel/pry forwards to shimmy the whole lot on to the wall for dismantling.

Most importantly, please video the operation from multiple angles for post injury analysis on here.

Hmm, got any old mattresses? Big duvets? Large bean bags? I'd be trying to roll that lot back over onto higher ground. Suction cup lifter thingy onto the glass panels, then ratchet straps back to the house/Porsche and inch it back over towards the swing. A couple of well positioned cushiony things to take the load as it goes over-centre and lie it down. at least that should take the twist out of the rail and you could slide the glass out.<br />But as others have said, that looks like beer tokens need to change hands, if nothing else as to have somebody on hand with A&E on the phone while somebody else stops the bleeding!

I would consider having the glass held in place by 'H' posts, which reach deep enough into the ground to counter the bending force from wind, and are as tall at the glass itself. I would not have the bricks taking the weight  of the glass, as the glass is essentially acting as a lever. Aesthetically you can still have the aluminum base in place but I would not attach it to the brick.

That's ugly as hell as well as not fit for use.   I'd bin it.

Why not take the opportunity to replace that eyesore with some decent timber posts and stainless steel cable/rope so it's less of a bird killer. What a completely pointless bit of glazing.

What a completely pointless bit of glazing.

But it shelters the chair/swing from the wind...

I'm afraid you've gone form over function with that balustrade.

Going for a frameless system might look slick but it would have been stronger if you had fitted a 'standard' balustrade with vertical posts between the glass panels and a top rail.  The vertical posts could have been mounted on the face of the wall which would have been much stronger than mounting on the top as has been done.

I think I probably said this when you were asking about fixing it down in the first place - don't assume that any brickwork joint can take a tension force. Even if it's good brickwork. It's the weight of the bricks that holds it together. You need bolts going down far enough that you have enough weight tied together to resist the wind (although in practice it would have help to fix the swing down too!)

I think you’re wasting your time trying to restore as is. I’d be looking to stabilise/secure the glass eg have timer frame to facilitate support/safe lifting/setting aside. I’d also be looking to remove the top course of bricks - replace with maybe a reinforced concrete wall into which the rail fixings are secured? I’d also be getting someone to work out some wind load calcs and finding some suitable fixings with a 200% load factor.

It looks like a bit of finesse wouldn't go amiss here. What about hiring the chap in the video here?

Christie Clock

The thought of you sticking two cars together to make one fills me with dread!!

😉

How about a scaffolding gantry, some of those glass suction devices that are seen on grand designs when they dangle huge pains of glass from a crane and some chain and winch devices to connect the gantry and suction devices and some careful co-ordination of the winching.

Beaten to it by @toby1
Oh well.

Why not take the opportunity to replace that eyesore with some decent timber posts and stainless steel cable/rope so it’s less of a bird killer.

For the bird watchers or those worried about birds hitting the glass, loo just a little behind the glass in the second photo, the glass is transparent which might help, and you will see a tree and a load of squashed bushes. The bushes in the lower garden grow up above the brick work and the lovely little birdies flit about in them. That is one of the reasons we fitted the glass, to actually see them. In the 22 years we have lived here and the 10? years we have had the balustrade, there have been no observed bird strikes or dead birds found other than one pigeon that flew into our upstairs bedroom window pane. No, I am not moving to a solid brick bungalow on the off chance a sparrow flies into a pane of glass.

Is anybody bored enough to watch me...

 moving a solid brick bungalow on the off chance a sparrow flies into a pane of glass.

No, I am not moving to a solid brick bungalow on the off chance a sparrow flies into a pane of glass.

Based on the outside wall.. are you sure it's solid?

4 x 2 joist under the dislodged bricks, high lift jack to gently raise the dislodged course up and then forward.
Then you need to coerce the bricks back to where they were originally.instastick should be enough to hold them very temporarily.
Then reduce the length to 3 panels, bury the rail into the mud on the side of the wall near the swing .
Use rubber strip between the brick and the glass.
Then get the wall rebuilt maybe with a pier for the 3 pane of glass.
Burying the aluminium channel and glass by say 30cm will reduce the wind load and massively increase the resistance to failure.

Burying the aluminium channel and glass by say 30cm will reduce the wind load and massively

To make a nice see through tripping hazard?

We have a big glass balustrade and its killed 3 birds (that I know of) in the last 10 years. I'd wager the local cats have done far more damage.

Back on topic, could you use the seat frame and some straps to pull the bricks and glass back up. As a kind of A frame with a line going over the top and round the bricks?

A see through trip hazard?
It's like a meter high now , bury 30 cm and it will be 70cm high , not ankle high.
Plus it's on the high side of a drop. The wall it's attached to is a retainer for the earth the secs swing is on .
So it is on the way to no where.
Bury it and get another ally section to top it would also be wise.
Spread the load and demark the drop

If it were me I'd be finding a couple of long bits of timber and clamping either side of the glass panels to try and stablise them a bit before I tried to do any lifting or moving.  Wood is just there to try and hold the top parts of the panels, and stop them twisting / falling on your head as you mess about with a jack beneath them.  In fact I'd probably try to rig up some sort of pully that could pull from either end and distribute some of the force than try to jack it up where it could land on me.

Once you've got them back into position it should be easier to dismantel, I'd say the track is for the bin and as others have said you need a rethink on the fixings.  Big posts and then reuse the glass between them maybe

I started to move it with a length of wood and some ropes rigged up to make a pully but then is started to move on its own so I stopped.

A builder is coming tomorrow to quote for re-instating the balustrade and rebuilding the wall with the concrete core that was on the wall we inspected before putting it there in the first place.

This made me smile [i]No, I am not moving to a solid brick bungalow on the off chance a sparrow flies into a pane of glass.

Based on the outside wall.. are you sure it’s solid?[/i]

Back on the bird thing for a minute - the local cats cannot jump through this balustrade and kill the birds in the trees and bushes below like they did witht he old version. This has definitely saved more birds than it has killed.

Why not take the opportunity to replace that eyesore with some decent timber posts and stainless steel cable/rope so it’s less of a bird killer.<br /><br />

It’s really no more a ‘bird killer’ than sliding living-room windows, large kitchen windows, patio windows…
I have a large flock of starlings raid my feeders quite regularly every day, and it’s not at all unusual to hear a loud, dull thump when one takes off heading for the roof and misjudges the sky reflecting off a window for the actual sky and bounces off - after at least a decade of this occurrence, I’ve yet to find a stunned or injured bird on my patio. My mate, who lives in a bungalow with very large windows and a 10-acre field next to his garden has a photo of the clear outline of a bird left on a window by the dust from its feathers after hitting the glass,. No injured bird found there, either.
Feathers left by the neighbourhood murder machines, on the other hand… 🤷🏼😖

you have found a builder who is able to come out and quote within 24hrs of this happening?!  christ it took me months to find anyone who would even answer their bloody phone

https://www.vinehousefarm.co.uk/window-alerts

There you go, they are not foolproof as some of our more cretinous pidgeons still manage to hit the window, but better than find bird corpses on the lawn.

Move an existing panel/add a panel and return the screen at a right-angle along the top of the adjacent wall so that it's more likely to support itself

The plan now is to replace the weeds/lawn with a small strip of patio slabs so the swing will sit on those instead of sink into the mud. This will also allow us to lay horizontal rebar under these slabs and into the wall to provide more support for that. The wall will be rebuilt to match the other walls, the ones we checked before installation and with no issues, and then bolt the balustrade back into those.

Timba - We did think of the 90 degree option but there isn't room to do that as there is a stepo down quite close to the corner and other issues.

Posts vs Channel for support - I am not sure why a post held with 4 bolts at each end of the panels will be better fixed than the channel bolted every 15cm. In both cases they are reliant on the strength of the supporting bricks/concrete and the posts focus this strain on 4 localised bolts rather than 10 spread evenly along the length.

You can't bolt it into bricks - Actually you can as long as they are solid and there is concrete under them to provide a solid support. We checked this before installing the balustrade but only in a couple of places. What we hadn't realised was the whoever built the original patio, or extended it, used brick and concrete for most of it but not for the two end section. The one by the drive that collapsed 2 years ago appears to be a late addition as it was a single skin brick wall with massive voids under the patio slabs whereas the rest of the patio is pretty solid. The section that has just failed appears to have simply been skimped on. All other bits of the wall have been checked and confirmed as solid.

Bird killer - I think we have covered and confirmed that it is bollecks

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/8Cb0Qk3v/Patio-Wall.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/8Cb0Qk3v/Patio-Wall.pn g"/> [/img][/url]

Just make sure to bolt the swing to the patio 😉

If the next storm blows it into the now immovable glass, the panes might not survive so well.

Anyway, I think it would be much simpler and cheaper just to leave it off now. There are bushes there anyway to catch anyone falling off the edge, don't see the issue 🤷‍♂️

Surely this is an insurance job? Then the contractors will have to sort out how bet to proceed - probably by smashing what is there and starting again.

 I am not sure why a post held with 4 bolts at each end of the panels will be better fixed than the channel bolted every 15cm.

Because a post will offer support right to the top of the glass while the channel simply holds it at the bottom and the unsupported glass can act as a greater lever - as you have found.

You're main problem was bolting it down into cheese.

[i]You’re main problem was bolting it down into cheese[/i] - This is correct and what we are fixing

I still disagree with the posts vs channel point though. The balustrade is approx 1m high and 4m long with a small gap down the dies of each panel.

The glass doesn't bend or flex whether it is fixed to a post or to the channel so all leverage is on the bottom - either the channel or the post.
The force of the wind against the glass is basically the same regardless of fixing method so all of that force is focussed onto the fixings ad the bottom.
If there we 4 posts that would mean 4 sets of 3 or 4 bolts close together taking all the force. 12-16 bolts at 4 distinct points. With the channel there are (4m/15cm=26) 26 bolts spreading the load evenly along the 4m length.
Not only is there less force being applied to each bolt, there is significantly less force being apply to the wall at the points where the posts would be fitted.

Anyway, the point about the wall being the problem is clearly true and that is being addressed. I have just lifted the glass panels out for the moment.

*I am not an engineer* - I would have thought spreading the load over more than one edge is what you need to achieve for more strength to the wind, not more points of contact on the bottom edge where the wind at the top of the panel can increase leverage.

These ones are secured on three edges:

Toughened Balustrade Safety Glass 10mm Tinted/Satinised – Deck Supermarket

But, it does also require the post is actually fitted securely too (!)

*I am not an engineer* – I would have thought spreading the load over more than one edge is what you need to achieve for more strength to the wind,

*I am*

The glass is fine, the alloy channel is fine

The whole system is fine infact.

What's not fine is the wall it was bolted to WCA needs to do is rebuild or reinforce what is there.

The panels on the cars in that photo look all crumpled.  Maybe you could replace them with something else 😉

What Joshvags said.

To rebuild ie re bed the brick on edge coping and then bolt on again will fail again, may just take the next course of brick off, everything is so green with moss , it's only a 9" wall, there is no bonding with the brick on edge, every chance the mortar is a weak mix of sand and cement with too much plasticiser

Soldier bricks stand tall not lying down, from earlier in the thread

Could have been worse!

Like you say deeper fixings or spread the load out to the side.