They wrote to us and said 20.56 kWh and 22p day rather than the current 15.74 kWh and 21p a day. Renewal is November 1st.
Phoned to renew and that quote is no longer available it's now 27p a day and 24.9 kWh.
Thean is saying that electric companies aren't allowed to take on new customers.
Scottish power( not that I'd ever go back) are offering me a quote online at 27.8 day and 18.66 kWh.
My choice is sign up for 3 years or get totally shafted on the variable rate 95p a day and whatever they want to charge per kWh.
You can change supply, some of the smaller ones aren’t taking on new customers but others are. I’m not sure what part you’re asking is legal?
The bit where the man says that I can't swap to another company.
Whatever the problem, Scottish Power isn’t the answer
Won't you be shafting yourself on a 3 year deal now as you'll be locked into high rates?
My deal ended on 1st Oct and I'm staying on variable till things calm down.
We're in for a very expensive 6-12 months, but this is just a short term demand peak / supply trough. I wouldn't lock myself into anything at the moment and remember the variable rate is capped by OfGem's bill cap, so I'd just stay on that.
If you're on a variable rate now Ofgem is forcing suppliers to supply you at a loss! Slightly bizarre situation and not really sustainable, but you may was well make the most of it.
Yeah, don't fix right now. The companies are hedging against the possibility of extreme volatility in wholesale prices, so are quoting very high.
As has been mentioned, variable tariffs are still capped, for now, so that is in your favour.
We’re in for a very expensive 6-12 months, but this is just a short term demand peak / supply trough.
See that 2GW lost from the blown interconect, that's permanent as by the time it's back up and running we'll have lost that again from closed nuclear stations. This is only going to keep happening as the other 4 stations shut down in the next few years.
I know gas prices are the driving factor here but we are increasingly reliant on it for generation. Not a good place to be.
My choice is sign up for 3 years or get totally shafted on the variable rate 95p a day and whatever they want to charge per kWh.
Might be time to get rid of the chocolate fridge that seems to solely exists to use as much electric as possible
There's another thread about this, but there are no 'wins' to be had at the moment, few companies are offering fixed rate deals and those that are, are stupidly expensive.
It really doesn't matter which provider you're with, they will all be charging the same, the legal cap on a 'variable' non-contract basis, which will likely rise sharply again in April.
Best you can do, fall onto the variable rate and switch, if/when things settle down. Russia has cooled things slightly by increasing supply, but the wholesale price is still higher than the cap.
I know gas prices are the driving factor here but we are increasingly reliant on it for generation. Not a good place to be.
But most of the spike in prices has been caused by CV related disruptions to demand / supply which mean storage is low when it should be high etc. Fundamentally the overall (world) annual demand / supply hasn't significantly changed, so you'd expect prices to go back down again.
As has been mentioned, variable tariffs are still capped, for now, so that is in your favour.
Can anyone find the actual KWh and standing charge prices for the OFGEM cap? I've been offered what actually appears to be a reasonable tariff to remain with my current supplier for a year, but want to see how that stacks up against the capped variable charge.
I think the suppliers are obliged to supply this detail for their fixed deals, but OFGEM don't seem to for their prices. I want to decide quick before my offer lapses, I imagine it won't be available for long.
The Ofgem cap is £x per year for an average user. How each supplier sets their day/ unit prices for electricity and gas within that cap is a commercial decision for each company.
...which mean storage is low when it should be high etc.
Interestingly this site shows that UK storage, (such as it is, we've hopeless capacity compared to other countries) is almost totally full. Really bizarre considering how much could have been made by selling it over the last few weeks, unless of course they're expecting even higher prices over winter!
The Ofgem cap is £x per year for an average user.
Meh, OK cheers. So I need to find out how my annual consumption compares to the average. That's not bloody helpful - not you Mr Paddler, their cap methodology being different to how suppliers charge.
Interestingly this site shows that UK storage, (such as it is, we’ve hopeless capacity compared to other countries) is almost totally full.
AIUI Europe's much bigger stores are empty, so they are buying more gas rather than using storage which is helping up short term demand.
But most of the spike in prices has been caused by CV related disruptions to demand / supply which mean storage is low when it should be high etc. Fundamentally the overall (world) annual demand / supply hasn’t significantly changed, so you’d expect prices to go back down again.
Maybe, maybe not. Fact is though, we're increasingly reliant on gas as our sole thermal generation fuel. I forgot West Burton A (coal) is losing us another 3.2GW in September next year.
We're shedding power stations faster than we can replace them, your supply/demand curve is only going one way right now.
Really bizarre considering how much could have been made by selling it over the last few weeks, unless of course they’re expecting even higher prices over winter!
Those (meagre) UK stores are to keep the lights on, not solve price problems. If they were empty we'd be hours from no heat and no electricity if any serious supply problems occurred
I forgot West Burton A (coal) is losing us another 3.2GW in September next year.
Ratcliffe are closing a 500MW unit next year too.
Those (meagre) UK stores are to keep the lights on, not solve price problems. If they were empty we’d be hours from no heat and no electricity if any serious supply problems occurred
No, there is no government controlled stockpile. All the storage sites in the UK are privately owned and just run as part of the trading process. Buy low sell high, that's how they make money.
So that's 5.7GW next year, plus another 1.2GW if Hartlepool remains shut down. Plus others we are probably not aware of. Hinkley C and Sizewell C wouldn't even cover that and they're both years away (and only one is under construction).
Ofgem price cap transparency is bullshit.
After quite a bit of digging I found it was based on 2400kwh a year and I'm not even sure that's right - that kind of information should be displayed with the ofgem cap headline number any time it is quoted.
Or even better than obsfuscating the number they could just display the unit cost cap.....
We’re shedding power stations faster than we can replace them, your supply/demand curve is only going one way right now.
That's just the UK though, we don't use enough gas to significantly affect global prices on our own. Normally we'd just import extra LPG, but the price of that has spiked due to Asia demanding more than normal.
That’s just the UK though, we don’t use enough gas to significantly affect global prices on our own. Normally we’d just import extra LPG, but the price of that has spiked due to Asia demanding more than normal.
That's all great - doesn't change the fact that we don't generate enough electric and we are loading more and more demand onto the system..... Electric heating and electric cars by 2030..... Pipedream in the UK.
It's hurting China too. The Amur gasplant fire has left them with widescale brownouts and energy rationing.
So that’s 5.7GW next year, plus another 1.2GW if Hartlepool remains shut down. Plus others we are probably not aware of. Hinkley C and Sizewell C wouldn’t even cover that and they’re both years away (and only one is under construction).
We've got a few additional interconnectors under construction IIRC. That'll help, though probably not completely close the gap.
Had an email from Money Saving Expert recently that basically said that there were very few deals of any sort around, and none of them were cheaper than allowing your current contract to roll onto the price-capped rate. For this to happen, you *must not* cancel your contract, or change supplier. If you do, you won't be able to get back onto the capped rate.
I decided to go with my supplier's new tariff offer. Start towards the end of November and is about £200pa more than the OFGEM cap costs for my consumption. Crucially there's no early cancellation charges, so either I can jump to a cheaper fix next year or I'm protected from more large increases when the cap jumps in April as they are suggesting is likely on the radio right now!
To answer the OPs original question.
The man is saying that electric companies aren’t allowed to take on new customers.
No this is not true but many companies don't want to take on more customers at a loss at the moment.
No, there is no government controlled stockpile.
I know that. The meagre stores "we" have, as in stores on this island, which are privately owned, are not big enough to be used for price stability, they are just enough to enable continuity of supply. The UK decided to use financial instruments rather than mandating stores to hedge against a large rise in prices... now very clearly the wrong decision. The wrong decision by the UK government that is. All we can do is suck it up and pay the growing bills.
That’s just the UK though, we don’t use enough gas to significantly affect global prices on our own.
You're missing my point, regardless of wholesale gas prices energy prices in the UK are only going to increase as we rely on external markets to plug the gaps.
We’ve got a few additional interconnectors under construction IIRC. That’ll help, though probably not completely close the gap.
Probably not, no, and it doesn't address the huge energy security elephant in the room.
There is an 819 mW station near me just sitting idle at the moment - mothballed
Shut down in 2020 as the owners made some serious miscalculations about money and called in the receivers after only owning it for 12 months!
@kelvin you're right about most of your points re. gas storage, and the lack of a coherent policy, (that point could have been made in many chat threads recently! ) but this bit,
they are just enough to enable continuity of supply.
It'll be empty if prices had dictated selling it before an emergency shortage. In this case my view is it can't really be relied on at any time for supply continuity purposes if its not guaranteed to be full.
its not guaranteed to be full
Very true. Too small, and no regulations ensuring they are used for mitigating any supply problems.
But they are just about full... even now... and they are full for that reason... continuity of supply... otherwise, why wouldn't they have been emptied while prices peaked so high? There is no statutory requirement to keep them full to ensure continuity of supply... but what do you think the government would do if energy companies risked letting the lights go out? Short term they'd be shutting down factories and other business facilities to stop voters facing blackouts and no heating... but you can be sure they'd be blaming the industry, to deflect from themselves, and would be drawing up penalties of some kind to look to be doing something for the voters. Remember... do nothing, have no plans... 'till the shit hits the fans, and then look important and on the side of voters as you fix the mess you've allowed to happen... it's the modus operandi of this government, and the bigger energy companies will be doing everything they can not to be on the receiving end of knee jerk political reactions.
... otherwise, why wouldn’t they have been emptied while prices peaked so high?
I don't know really, but as I suggested before, the market intelligence that the trading teams have is pretty impressive, they may be expecting even higher prices later in the year. 😱
Hmm, not sure I buy that they are holding onto it for altruistic reasons or to deflect media criticism. These companies tend to be more hard headed than that.
But they are just about full… even now… and they are full for that reason… continuity of supply…
No it's not. It's because it's all owned by investments, they'll sell when the time is right.
I don’t know really, but as I suggested before, the market intelligence that the trading teams have is pretty impressive, they may be expecting even higher prices later in the year.
Seems the most likely explanation, we've not even hit winter yet. We're closing one reactor at the end of November and another at the beginning of January, another two may restart then or may not. They know that and know unless something cools the market before then generation will be screaming for as much gas as they can get.
There is an 819 mW station near me just sitting idle at the moment
What does it power, a flea circus?
Locally there is a gas power station hasnt been used for years but built as brand new, and right next to it is a connector plant to the wind turbines in scotland run as an undersea and underground cable at huge cost because wind poewer was seen as chep from scotland, we also have huge wind farm out at sea hubndreds of the lovely things all running most of the time.
We also have huhe silos full of wood pellets from america all going to Drax to be burnt a huge transport mileage by train many many hours and a few reverses on route.
Perhaps if we all turned stuff off used led lamps, didnt use aircon so much and had solar pannels fitted , every little helps.
We’re closing one reactor at the end of November and another at the beginning of January, another two may restart then or may not.
I believe the current high electricity prices are crippling the nuclear generators - I believe there is less generation capacity than they had expected (several reactors off line), so they are having to buy power at the market rate to satisfy forward contracts made at a much lower price. Crazy world...
There is an 819 mW station near me just sitting idle at the moment
What does it power, a flea circus?
I was wondering if anyone else would pick up on that! 😀
Ah yes. Slip of the caps lock.
Make that 819MW
List of gas power stations in the uk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_power_stations_in_the_United_Kingdom
Actually worse that I thought - Calon energy in administration for 12 months now have mothballed :
Baglan Bay 520MW
Severn Power 850MW
Sutton Bridge 820MW
Project will be down in Anglesey/Wirral at the other end of our cable.
I believe the current high electricity prices are crippling the nuclear generators – I believe there is less generation capacity than they had expected (several reactors off line), so they are having to buy power at the market rate to satisfy forward contracts made at a much lower price. Crazy world…
Yup, although we sold West Burton B last month. Dunno if that's a good thing or not.
they may be expecting even higher prices later in the year
Very good point. But if we’ve already had the highest peak price ever, and if at that point they still weren’t predicting even a short term normalising fall (when they could refill) before we have an even higher peak when they can sell/use it, well, the emoji was a very good choice. 😱 I still think that maximising revenue would have meant using a good chunk of those stores recently. They are being kept full to hedge against problems that could result in impacts on residential users… which would lead to calls for an end to light touch regulation. Remember, we had a major party proposing nationalisation only 2 years ago. This industry could become a political battle ground very quickly.
It's going to be an issue anyway when people start dying because they can't pay their bills.
I'll say it again, they don't care.
Maybe so. But fuel poverty only hits the people on lower incomes... where as domestic power cuts and periods with no domestic gas would hit everyone... ie. every potential voter. Self interest kicks in for the party in power at that point.
Having octopus at home I thought we’d sign up with them for the shop. The rates were competitive but on filling out the application they want a payment of £800 which they will generously give back to us when we leave.
Needless to say we are not going with them and they’ve really soured my opinion of them.
Project will be down in Anglesey/Wirral at the other end of our cable.
As am I! Well when at work anyway, at Connah's Quay Power Station which is where the interconnetor tips up. We've definitely not been idle the last few weeks. 😁
Deeside, over the road has been reconfigured as an inertia station to stabilise grid frequency when there's a lot of renewables on, maybe that's what he was thinking of.
Do you get issues whenever the interconnect throws a wobbler? We have occasionally had (non critical) systems trip out that have caused us transients. PITA. I've been told the big explosion when they were commissioning it was quite something though.
Do you get issues whenever the interconnect throws a wobbler?
Colleague at work who used to be an electrical engineer is deaf in one ear after an incident where he was in the breaker hall when multiple breakers tripped simultaneously.
Needless to say we are not going with them and they’ve really soured my opinion of them.
I would possibly suggest that a number of the subsidies they get for their renewables production were not "ethical" either.
Zippy, just as any small business is wary of signing up with a supplier who might cease trading this winter, the same applies in the other direction… a deposit is in case your company folds owing them money. The cost of an unstable economy. Energy prices have just gone nuts for small businesses, there isn’t regulation to ensure a delay in any of the price rise ‘till the spring in the same was as for domestic customers. You aren’t going to find a sensibly priced deal I’m afraid.
A timely article from this morning…
Sorry been out today.
Do you get issues whenever the interconnect throws a wobbler?
We've had a few incidents where the all the cooling tower fans driven from one side of a distribution board have tripped, the DNO have said they had coincident issues on their network. Wonder if they were caused by the interconnetor. Hmm, 🤔
@project @drnosh where are these unused stations? I’m intreagued.
Apologies for crap spelin before.
Fiddlers ferry closed down locally, interconector from Scotland windfarms, cable wanders around to Connahs Quay as somebody else said, the other one is/ was a gas station opposite Shotton Paper on the site of shotton Steelworks, and just the the side of the bypass 2 huge solar panel farms then we have the huge Ortead wind farms in Liverpool bay and off the north wales coast, and 6 huge wind turbines on Peel ports site liverpool, also 2 small multiple diesel generating station on Peel ports land at Birkenhead and at Stanlow.
Castner Keller and ince also generate power.
