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Yes yes hahaha it's me and cars again. I will be ignoring jokes.
I want to drop the rear subframe to do the suspension bushings and give it a lick of paint, but you have to remove the exhaust. How do you even start? Looks like it's in 2 pieces with a joint in the middle which could be all corroded up, but isn't it also going to be glued with fire gum or something? What do DIYers usually do?
youtube is good for this, especially for make and model, you don't want to make a mistake that costs you even more in the end.
Also, with a name like molgrips i'd have thought you'd be all over this type of activity!
a joint in the middle which could be all corroded up
Yes
but isn’t it also going to be glued with fire gum or something?
Also yes
Best way is to unbolt it at the front from the cat/manifold and drop it all as one piece. OEM exhausts tend to be a single piece (easy to fit on a production line, no leaks) it's aftermarket ones that come in bits as it's easier to ship but they're a PITA as lining everything up becomes infinitely harder as the twisting makes an already awkward 3D shape hard to get your head around.
Otherwise, this seems appropriate for a merc:
Don't you have previous with subframes.
Anyway if your not confident it'll come apart /some exhaust are one piece fit.
A 2 post ramp is your friend for maneuvering it out round on a number of vehicles
Undo the bolts and drop it in one from the front flange(s)if you can.
If it’s got a slip joint, or whatever it’s called it’ll be stuck forever. Especially if the exhaust doesn’t need replacing but needs to come apart. Same goes for the lambda sensor(s).
If replacement is cheap enough, just fire up the angle grinder.
Any clamp bolts on older, cheaper systems will snap.
Binners has the right idea though, measure the diameter, buy the appropriate size sleeve coupling, cut it in half, don't disturb the existing coupling.
The Fiestas exhaust is more couplings than exhaust at this point as the rust migrates down the mid section 😂
^this.
I've just replaced the silencer on Greta - my Cayenne and added a joiner sleeve. Measure the diameter with a pair of calipers and order accordingly.
Seal it with some Holts gungum on assembly.
I wouldn't bother unbolting from the cats/downpipes etc unless you want the hell of broken studs.
Greta – my Cayenne
Now if that isn't an invitation to bad karma... .
And more seriously in answer to Molgrip's exhaust question. Check all the parts are in stock at your after market supplier/specialist breakers at affordable prices then fire up the angle grinder.
Whatever you do don’t think it will be a doddle and take a couple of hours at most or you might end up under the car on ramps in the dark and rain soaked to the skin, cold and with no skin on your knuckles and it STILL in two pieces…
it was 35 years ago but it still sends shivers through me
Sounds like if you give it another year or so it'll remove itself.
No point putting much effort in with an old exhaust that isn't in good condition, unless it's something performance oriented. Sleeve joints especially are a nightmare. If it's got a bolted flange, break it there, but otherwise I'd definitely cut it and rejoin it with a sleeve. Somewhere well supported, you don't want the sleeve joing to be bearing too much load. Course, you could weld it, if you can weld, but it's already probably rusty and shitty.
Or depending on price I'd consider just replacing it- for some models exhausts can be so cheap as to make fannying about with an old one a false economy, IIRC I paid £80 for a 3/4 system for my shitbox mondeo frinstance. Or use it as an excuse to upgrade of course 😉
Or depending on price I’d consider just replacing it- for some models exhausts can be so cheap as to make fannying about with an old one a false economy, IIRC I paid £80 for a 3/4 system for my shitbox mondeo frinstance
If an OEM exhaust isn't close to rotten I'd save it all day long. The OEM stuff is more pricy for a reason. Original exhaust generally lasts 8-10 years up here. Tin special from the aftermarkets seems to last 2 years at a push. That's before we get into aftermarket silencers cats and lambdas just being shit for most marques.
I'm assuming there that the original one is tired- never felt the need to drop a subframe out of a car for maintenance, if it wasn't allround scabrous. Also definitely pipework only not cats and lambdas but that's pretty obvious with the price I mentioned.
Go on - you know you want to do it properly! (My XC90 subframe)
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I suspect Molgrips will be doing it with jacks, axle stands, the spare wheel thrown under the car on the drive or in a cramped garage, RNP, we've seen your luxurious workshop. If I were Molgrips I'd just sell the money pit Merc and wave it goodbye with a smile on my face.
Flippancy apart - it's that subframe pictured above that helps me justify keeping older cars running.
As an engineer/designer/tinkerer - I can appreciate the shear amount of work and energy embedded in that subframe, it is massively complex with a large amount of subcomponents and techniques involved in its manufacture.
Scrapping the car would recycle the metallic element of the subframe but the energy embedded in its manufacturing would be lost.
That is multiplied many times through a car and it's many complex energy intensive components.
I'd like to know how much energy is embedded in components and the manufacturing of cars.
Can you get it up on a ramp to have a decent look around underneath before starting? It may be that the subframe needs replacing anyway which MB should pay for, but if you've painted it and it needs doing in the future I can see them playing up rather than paying up.
Can we have before and after pics please! 😀
This was Molgrips' last effort when he had a rattle in the glove box of his Passat...
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Don’t you have previous with subframes.
Hmm no, I replaced all the rear suspension on the Passat but not the subframe.
The exhaust is the OEM one and it's in good shape along with the brackets. The subframe itself has been inspected by Merc and deemed ok, although it has some surface rust. If like to do what RNP has done and removed and repaint it. The bushings and rubber bits haven't failed, they are just old, and judging by the improvement I saw doing the front, it's well worth doing the back as well. I like a comfy refined quiet car, and unless I spend much more money on a significantly newer car, this is the best way to get a refined luxury motor. It will be good as new if I do this; I sure as hell cannot afford a new CLS but for £400 of parts I can get close.
Anyway, I was thinking I could perhaps drop the subframe.and all the linkages together and then disassemble it all in the garage, but that means removing the exhaust probably. The alternative is to lower the back of the exhaust and try and slide the frame out backwards. It might be easier than undoing all the linkage bolts from under the car. Or it might not.
you might end up under the car on ramps in the dark and rain soaked to the skin, cold and with no skin on your knuckles and it STILL in two pieces…
Typical Saturday night... I bought some builder's waterproofs from the PPE section at B and Q - great investment!
Just to be clear, nothing has actually failed on the car. Just think.of it as a restoration project.
How much did it cost to do the front Moly? And how long did it take/how awkward was it?
Just to be clear, nothing has actually failed on the car. Just think.of it as a restoration project.
Have you every watched Bangers and Cash!? That's how all the tales start when Derek turns up to drag an old car out of a crumbling garage after the old man has passed away!! 🤣 🤣
Have you thought about getting a project car and leaving the daily driver as a daily driver?
Well, I'm up for the thread.
Let the [s]entertainment scuffed knuckles and swearing[/S] entertainment begin.
Don't underestimate how long the job will take - my Volvo multi link rear subframe/suspension is massively more complex than the McPherson strut front end.
Doing it again I'd buy a complete subframe & suspension assembly from a breakers and either refurbish that or swop it in and refurbish the original one whilst keeping the car mobile then sell it on afterwards for break even / couple of quid loss.
Be aware that there is quite a bit of movement/alignment generally available in rear subframes, measure everything before removal.
There are two control arms at the front. The main one has a big fat hydro bushing. £300 for an arm from MB; £150 for Lemforder/Febi but not listed as being fluid filled; £100 for a cheap make that was listed as fluid filled, or £30 for a Lemforder fluid filled bushing on its own. So I bought that and a cheap hydraulic press for £90 and it worked. Removing the arms not too bad once you work out how to access everything and what to remove. I already had a set of cups to use with the press to drive the bushings out and in, but I had to fabricate a depth stop to get the bushing aligned properly. So yeah, quite involved and took a while but not hard as such. You do need the press though in conjunction with a heat gun. Unless you just buy the whole arm, then it's not particularly hard at all as long as you have a ball joint splitter that fits. The Laser one from Halfords needs a bit of modification.
The other arms I just bought whole be auae the bushings have this weird rounded lip I didn't fancy fighting.
Those made a huge difference and removed the rumbling and road buzz I was feeling.
I'd offer to help if you fancied a crack at it but I think you are a long way away?
and refurbish the original one whilst keeping the car mobile
Mm yes good point but I don't need the car day to day.
Have you thought about getting a project car and leaving the daily driver as a daily driver?
I don't drive anything daily. This is as much of a project car as I need.
This was Molgrips’ last effort when he had a rattle in the glove box of his Passat…
That was actually a very successful effort. You were all telling me to sell the car for scrap but I fixed the leak. That was what, ten years ago, it's still on the road.
Straightpipe for lolz
Mm yes good point but I don’t need the car day to day.
It's still easier to fix it on the bench with zero pressure.
I did this with the MG's suspension, bought a pile of bits from a broken car and spent a few weeks restoring them at my leisure rather than having an immobile car on jack stands. Sold what I didn't need for a profit too.
Also meant I had a full set of spare parts for when it turned out that Bolt F63TG on the parts list was actually a special bolt not just a bog standard 3/8ths and no longer in production and I shouldn't just have ground it off........
It’s still easier to fix it on the bench with zero pressure.
Yes, true, but subframes are still £200 on eBay and only one is in better shape than mine, the rest are scabby as hell. Then Is have to try and sell mine which could take ages as it's not exactly a hot item that many people want.
@RustyNissanPrairie what paint did you use on that subframe?
Had to take a hacksaw to the one on my air-cooled VW. It needed replacing so no worries about reuse.
It's Zinga, but I had the subframe shotblasted first to remove any rust and key the surface.
https://www.zinga.eu/what-is-zinga/
If you are doing it in situ and unable to shotblast it then I would remove as much rust as possible and apply Fertan to convert any remaining rust.
https://www.fertan.co.uk/product/fertan-rust-converter/
Overcoat with Jotun Jotamastic 87 winter grade
https://www.paints4trade.com/jotun-jotamastic-87-winter-grade-wg-epoxy-paint-261894-p.asp
Ta!
Having a look around on ilcats.ru it looks like the exhaust is in three bits - downpipe, which includes the DPF and a load of sensors and gubbins; a front section where the SCR bit would be if I had it, which I don't; and the back section which in my case splits into two. On the diagram they seem to be attached together with clamps, so I'm going to assume they won't come apart.
The bottom pic on this link is mine, with the "twin" exhaust.. brrm brrm. That's the bit I'll have to remove.
That looks a piece of cake. Undo the joint at 650 which looks like the easy flared type and then drop everything behind if off the rubber hooks in one piece. It'll take longer to get the car up than get that off.
Great 🙂 it's stainless so I guess the pipe itself should not have corroded. I'll order a new clamp from MB just in case.