[Closed] Removing a gas hob DIY

I'd get a gas engineer - when I swapped gas cookers, the engineer pointed out that the valve didn't actually seal properly when disconnected from the cooker

interesting question isn't it - the definition of a 'competent person'. I think they bascially mean you have some form of industry recognised accreditation.

I need to replace the fan on our range, but to get to it I need to disconnect the gas. I've been recommended this isn't something I should try myself. I regard myself as pretty competent but really don't want to blow my house up / invalidate insurances

Ask yourself what's the worst that can happen!...

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...for me - not a chance I'd be messing with gas.

You can "remove" it yourself, but only after a gas engineer has disconnected and capped the supply to it for you. That is law, not opinion.

I uninstalled our old gas hob and installed a new range cooker. IIRC it was one screw fit connector which I just wrapped up with PTFE tape to get a good seal. 20+ years later, we're still here.

I've also re-routed the gas pipes round the kitchen, no more complex than moving water pipes (lower pressure).

I uninstalled our old gas hob and installed a new range cooker.

Presumably that was under the old regulations. And wasn't really a disconnect/cap and then turn the gas back on situation, like the OP.

I've also removed a gas cooker.
It was just a bayonet fitting to disconnect the pipe.
I used some soapy water around the fitting after removing the cooker to make sure it wasn't leaking.

If I was trying to cap the pipe off I'd get someone in though.

For the peace of mind, I would get a qualified person in to do it. Why take the risk?

Problem is the gas safe guys know they have you over a barrel so try it on for ridiculous prices.

I needed our boiler flue adjusted. quotes of over £1k, in the end I found a guy who would do it for a bargain £500. For 3 hours work. Parts wise, new seals.

I removed our gas cooker a few weeks ago bayonet fitting then I got someone in to cap it. I consider myself competent to do most DIY but I don't play about with gas.

How much were you charged for capping out of interest?

You can “remove” it yourself, but only after a gas engineer has disconnected and capped the supply to it for you. That is law, not opinion.

My point was this is not clear. If its law then I wouldnt even consider it. Do you have a link?

Problem is the gas safe guys know they have you over a barrel so try it on for ridiculous prices.

It costs a fortune to do the training, get the certification, MAINTAIN the certification and I believe there are specialist tools mandated as part of the registration, (implied to me by a gas safe engineer when he was repairing our boiler) that's why the charges are high. Plus all the other usual business expenses.

Granted £1k for a flue mod does sound expensive, but customer is not just paying for a few quid in plastic seals and £15/hour wages.

That is law, not opinion.

Which act of Parliament?

About £30 if I remember correctly still cheaper than blowing house up.

I believe there are specialist tools

I did look at buying a flue gas analyser (as I DIY service our boiler). The reason I didn't was the sensor is like a CO sensor, it only lasts so many years, so I wouldn't really get VFM out of buying it as it would need replacing after 6 years IIRC.

Other than that, you don't really need any specialist tools (pressure sensor for checking flow loss is less than 1mb, but they're cheap).

The rest of it is just basic plumbing....

About £30 if I remember correctly still cheaper than blowing house up.

Sounds very binary. Do you have the number of the qualified gas engineer who will come to my house and do this work for £30?

Done exactly this at our old house, gas cooker out for electric and induction.

Bread and butter for any Gas engineer, will do it on an afternoon and charge you a nominal fee.

Why did I pay somebody to do it, when I'm perfectly competent and capable of doing it myself?

For the little bit of paper that comes with it.

So if the house explodes, and takes next doors with it, I'm not taking the cost.

Edit - I seem to recall I was also charged thirty quid. Its not worth not doing it.

Whilst we’re here why would you want a ‘gas engineer’ in your kitchen? Most gas fitters and plumbers are qualified as technicians - unless of course you mean someone post-degree professionally qualified, in which case there’s no way I’d want some desk-jockey tinkering with my pipework 🤣 (I’m professionally qualified before you ask)

Having been involved in the design, manufacture and installation of high pressure oxygen systems I’d have no qualms about isolating, disconnecting and capping a domestic gas pipe provided there’s an isolation valve in the feed- it’s basic plumbing and use soapy water to check for leaks etc.

If its law then I wouldnt even consider it.

The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998

This particular circumstance had been covered by law since 1994 though, I think.

Cost us £30 an appliance to be disconnected and capped as well, about 6 years ago. And in the end they charged us £60 for all three, as two could be disconnected at the same point.

From an earlier post...

the definition of a ‘competent person’. I think they bascially mean you have some form of industry recognised accreditation.

Confident doesn't meant competent. Easy to prove you are confident that you can carry out the work correctly... very hard to prove you are competent though self-certification and without training and/or accreditation, if you ever had to.

This BS comes up time and time again. Try and find anyone that has ever been "done" for doing their own work.

AFAIK you can do what you like in your own home if you are competent to do it, gas or electric.

Only if you are taking money from someone to do it do you need any qualification.

How do you prove competency? Well if you do it according to the regulations and do good quality work then you are competent.

If your work fails and kills someone are you incompetent? Well its not as clear as that. That is why every gas safe "engineer" will have insurance. Sometimes things go wrong.

A simple pressure drop test with a manometer before doing anything will tell you if something is leaking before you start.

Unhook the appliance and cap off supply. Use leak detect spray.

Do another pressure drop test with you manometer to see if you have introduced a new leak. IIRC you are allowed a bit of leak in the rule book!

When you lay a new circuit to supply the induction hob, you _should_ notify building control and get sign off.

IIRC you are allowed a bit of leak in the rule book!

I did think that was pretty crazy when I read it many years ago. Can't remember what the numbers are but I'd say a reasonable definition of competent is being able to fit a gas pipe that doesn't leak.

The heysham house gas explosion last year which sadly killed the little boy living next door was due to a chap capping off his own living flame gas fire, when the gas engineer does a job and charges, he is making himself responsible for any actions after.

I would just pay up.

try and find anyone that has ever been “done” for doing their own work

You legally need to be competent. DIY work that never goes wrong will obviously never result in your competency being questioned/tested. Good luck with that.

This BS comes up time and time again. Try and find anyone that has ever been “done” for doing their own work.

Yeah, 'getting done' is definitely the biggest risk.....

Sounds very binary. Do you have the number of the qualified gas engineer who will come to my house and do this work for £30?

If you happen to be near me then I do! He'll probably take 2 hours and talk about bikes for most of that! In fact if he was servicing my boiler at the same time he'd probably do it for no extra cost if I put the kettle on and opened a packet of biscuits whilst the system was draining or refilling!

I consider that I am competent - I spent 3 years working with hydrogen, methane and carbon monoxide lines at high pressure and high temp so am pretty confident in my ability to do the work safely and avoid leaks. I'm less confident that (a) a court will agree if I had to convince them; (b) any future home buyer/surveyor/building inspector who realised a gas appliance was removed would accept my PhD thesis as evidence of competence! So I'd let a gas safe certified person do the work. Its worth considering capping the pipe much further back - legacy pipes can be a pita for fault finding in many years to come - and I can tell you from experience* when you do get a leak behind your kitchen units Transco/SGN etc won't be too worried about carefully disassembling your cupboards to get to it.

* I moved into a house where there was a dodgy gas fitting that leaked and I discovered it at midnight in the middle of December. At 2 am tansco's options were - I cut off your supply at the meter and you'll have no heating or hot water or I take my big hammer to the unit under the hob to get to cap off that pipe.

Get a firm grip of it, feet shoulder width apart .....

We had a gas fire capped off a few weeks ago, they charged a flat rate of £75. I didn't even think about doing it myself, even though I do loads of other DIY work.

it’s basic plumbing and use soapy water to check for leaks etc.

Back in the 70s they used to run a lighter around the joint, if it leaked you'd see a small flame!

Having been involved in the design, manufacture and installation of high pressure oxygen systems I’d have no qualms about isolating, disconnecting and capping a domestic gas pipe provided there’s an isolation valve in the feed

Yes, but as you noted "provided there’s an isolation valve in the feed".

But you know what you're doing, whereas the OP really doesn't, else he wouldn't be asking on an MTB Forum...

We found a capped off gas pipe under the floor during some other work (old gas fire supply we assume).
Got someone in to cap it near the meter as it was in the way of what we were doing. Cost us £60 I think and he removed it from right by the meter meaning we've got less pipework to work roud when we do the kitchen.

No way would I be doing that myself.
Can I solder pipework? Yes. Can I turn off a valve to isolate the gas supply? Yes.
Is it worth £60 for me to know it's been done properly and been tested and I now have a gas safe cert saying it was all done properly? Abso-frikkin-lutely.

Everyone values things differently but we've only been here a little under 4 years and we quite like our house so would like to reduce any chances of it being remodeled with fire / explosion.

Si

Someone mentioned the Heysham explosion above, exactly what can happen with a bit of gas diy.

If you happen to need your boiler servicing you could get it done at the same time.

What this thread proves is that we carefully design and implement regulations often revising them in the light of accidents to keep the public safe in their own home.

Yet there will always someone who knows better and will DIY, some out of poverty, some ignorance, some just because they are cheap, some because they can sock it to the man.

Yes the heysham explosion I m sure I read the chap capped off a gas fire under the floorboards, slow leak built up unobserved.

4 people arrested as of last month on manslaughter charges.

Police were appealing for claims up to 2 mile radius for roof damage as a result.

For 60 quid I know what I d do.

What this thread proves is that we carefully design and implement regulations often revising them in the light of accidents to keep the public safe in their own home.

Yet there will always someone who knows better and will DIY

Has anybody said they'd ignore the regulations because they know better? A DIYer can still do work to correct regs, or exceed them. One of the reasons I DIY (in general, not talking about gas) is because I then know exactly how well the work has been done. That's not a brag, I know the majority of professionals can do it better than me, but I also know there are plenty that will do a slap dash job.

I think you have to be Gas safe registered to do anything which requires turning the gas off. You can remove the cooker (if it has one of those bayonet spring fittings).

Personally, for the money, I would just pay someone. It's not that much and you get documentation if you sell the house.

Usually, 'competent person' means it has to be checked by a gas safe person anyway...

I think you have to be Gas safe registered to do anything which requires turning the gas off. You can remove the cooker

No you don't, read further up this thread.
If you are doing it as a paid job, then you need to be Gassafe registered.
To DIY, you need to be competent. That doesnt mean you need to have passed numerous exams/courses. It means you know the requirements for gas work, and have done the relevant testing after the work to ensure there are no leaks and the work is to a good standard. That means you have capped it off properly with a soldered end, and have done a pressure drop test on completion. Soapy water around the joint works, but is not a good enough test.

Perhaps the Heysham guy didn't do a pressure drop test after capping off, that may have shown the leak.

If he didn't, I'd hazard he was not competent. Let's see if his actions are considered negligent by a court.

They were also stealing electricity and handling stolen goods at the premises. There is a precedent there for cutting corners in life....

Gas leaks do also happen after work by gas Safe certified people.

Brian, I can smell gas

At the meter there is a little cap you unscrew and can fit a manometer to. By fit, I mean you can shove a piece of plastic tube over the stub and by manometer I mean a couple of metres of clear plastic tube bent to a U and filled with water. Turn off gas at meter, do job. Fit manometer, turn on gas, manometer will read something like 30cm of water (doesn't matter how much), turn off gas, wait, if manometer not dropped in 30 seconds you're good, remove manometer, refit screw, turn on gas.

if manometer not dropped in 30 seconds

Clever stuff, why did the guy who capped my gas wait 15 minutes? Was he just a bit shit or do you suppose he knew you have to wait at least 30x longer to see a detectable drop in the differential pressure and wasn't just an internet bullshitter passing out potentially dangerous info to people who don't know any better?

Incidentally, that photo Nobeer linked to of the house in Ayr reminded me of some of the lovely details I was told about that by my fireman co-worker. Apparantly the guy was found, literally, bent double under the debris and when they moved him his hand fell off. Yeah, gas is just like water, except when it's not.

There's been a lot of advice in this thread, most of it incorrect. The two people who mentioned the most basic step of turning off the gas at the meter were also pretty clear they'd get someone competent in to do the job.

This is why you should get a GasSafe registered engineer to do it (to do *any* work on a gas installation, whether that is for pay or otherwise, you need to be classed as competent as per the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998, regulation 2/52 referencing regulation 3 @alanl. They know the allowable pressure drop for a gas installation to be classed as safe (not an unspecified drop from a makeshift manometer @neilnevill, not a blanket 1mb over an unspecified period of time @footflaps, they know how and when to use the correct fitting - soldered, compression, etc. (not PTFE tape on a "screw fit" (compression) fitting, the compression olive forms the seal and if you need PTFE tape you've done it wrong @footflaps) - and they have all the tools to do the job correctly and safely and understand how they work (it's not plumbing @dovebiker because that's water, gas might be at a lower pressure than water but water doesn't form explosive mixtures in air if it leaks @footflaps, flue gas analyser isn't just a carbon monoxide monitor @footflaps, you need to consider the requirement of purging the pipework after cutting and capping and you need to know how to a) calculate how much volume pipework you have and b) how much gas will be required to purge that volume @everyone).

Source: am GasSafe registered and I've been through the training, and there is so much more to unpick in this thread. For what it's worth I'd charge 1hr of my time for capping a cooker gas supply.

To be honest, anyone not engaging a gas Safe registered person is trying actively or passively to qualify for a Darwin award

This is great timing. Yesterday I managed to cut thru the gas feed to my cooker! Man I shit myself

Capped the pipe and a mate who is "competent" is coming round to sort it all today

This BS comes up time and time again. Try and find anyone that has ever been “done” for doing their own work.

I don’t say this lightly, but this is an absolutely idiotic view. Not only illegal, but irresponsible and shows a complete lack of good judgement. Literally the worst post I have seen on STW.

@jamj1974 it's not at all illegal if you do it to regulation and are competent. That's my point.

Be prepared to demonstrate competency if anything ever goes wrong. The easiest way to demonstrate competency of course is to be gas Safe registered.

The stakes are high so have a think about whether you want to burden yourself with that risk.

To DIY, you need to be competent.

(and many other similar comments)

This is a term which crops up in my work. It is insufficient to go "yeah, I know what I'm doing," rather you have to be demonstrably competent. So when the auditors come round and we say our testing have been undertaken by competent personnel for the purposes of ISO27001 / PCI-DSS / Cyber Essentials / Insert Accreditation Here, they aren't going to reply "right you are then squire," they're going to say "prove it." And proving it requires providing a bit of paper that says you're appropriately trained.

I get the safety aspect for 'have a go' bodgers..

The consequences if you get it wrong are catastrophic, however it's a really simple job and I don't see why it can't be DIY'd.

As long as you understand the job properly and do things correctly I can't see why you shouldn't.

I fitted a new ring main to get power in the cellar on a new breaker for example.. I could have done it as a spur but for the additional cable to make it a ring was negligible.
If anything it's over specifications with the cable gauge too as the heavier gauge stuff happened to be the same or cheaper at the time.

I know that it will never go wrong unless I try to pull about 10,000 Watts from that one braker in which case even then the braker will trip or plug fuses will blow.. So it's safe as safe can be.

How many of you have ever wired an electric plug? Were you competent to do the job, I mean legally?

The consequences if you get it wrong are catastrophic, however it’s a really simple job and I don’t see why it can’t be DIY’d.

Because it's a legal requirement to be competent. In a legislative sense that Cougar described very well above. Also, it can't be that simple given how much material TheFlyingOx had to tear into. It's also not really like wiring a ring main in the slightest.

How many of you have ever wired an electric plug? Were you competent to do the job, I mean legally?

Yes and yes. Because anyone is legally competent to wire a plug, it's just frowned upon since you can't rely on folk doing it right hence moulded plugs. Just as there are certain things you can DIY on your house circuit.

How many things are allowed for gas DIY? I can think of one and I don't even like doing that (have enough leaky schraeder bayonets at work on air mains, hate the things).

Again not even close to being the same.

Don’t forget soapy water is not allowed as a leak detector, it can corrode the pipe or fittings and cause leaks….
And also remember you are not just paying someone for the hour they are there but also the years of training and experience.
Remember any pipe has to be able to be purged to ensure it is full of gas, therefore the cap needs to be accessible, and able to be removed for this purpose. And if it is a compression fitting it can’t be in a floor void, but all you competent DIY’ers know all this already…..

I've been reading the legislation to understand why there are contradictory posts. It's not illegal to work on your own system, only if you're employed. BUT it is a strict legal requirement that you follow all the standards, purging, etc, as listed by TheFlyingOx, and unless you've had the training you're unlikely to know what they all are or how to do it correctly.

they’re going to say “prove it.” And proving it requires providing a bit of paper that says you’re appropriately trained.

Nope training isn't competence in the eyes of auditors.

Training is only the first part. Beyond the training for auditable competence trail there is to be competence assessment on a defined set of outcomes -usually practical that will be assessed and signed off by someone who is a qualified competency assessor and SME in the field.

Just completing the course doesn't make you competent.

But as you were explaining what competence was I'm sure you knew that.

@trail_rat that's just splitting hairs, of course there is a difference between having a bit of paper saying you've completed a course and proving you can use that training effectively but that's what your company qualification manual/profile/whatever you call it does.

You take the training you have received (formal or on job) and prove that you can use that safely on your own (task performance evaluation) making you a SQEP (suitably qualified and experienced person) for that task.

FWIW I don't think you would pass gas safe training without proving you can do the work anyway otherwise who assesses the sole traders?

My point was It's pretty common malpractice particularly with management in industry that hold the belief that training course pass = competence - which appears to be cougars understanding.

As a competence assessor with a couple of approval bodies that's a bridge I often have to broach with management when the employee produces a bunch of paperwork from courses but cannot answer simple questions or perform the task correctly/safely relating to the course content.

The other one is that as an assessor I can assess any competence against the set standard for that topic -and while many years ago that was the case for some Mickey mouse approval bodies anything reputable in any mature industry will need an SME who is deemed competent in the subject them selves.

If completing a training course proves competence why did my Part P qualified electrician label the two new circuits, he’d just installed, the wrong way round in the consumer unit?