[Closed] Religion in schools

i thought education was supposed to be secular unless it was some sort of religious denomination school ie "xyz Catholic primary" or whatever.

this was my presumption anyhow.

Is it a C of E school?
Or, heaven forfend, Catholic?

i thought education was supposed to be secular unless it was some sort of religious denomination school ie "xyz Catholic primary" or whatever.

Nope: all state schools in the UK are required by law to have a daily act of collective worship, which is broadly Christian in nature.

A)don't go, it's like any other school performance that your child is in. You can't be made to attend a school play, or to watch your daughter play sport
B) go, because it's something that your child is participating in, and you'd like to see her.

We are a country that has a Christian history and tradition - our laws, contracts, values and morals are all rooted in that history even if the population is largely agnostic or atheist. I'm an atheist, I'm actually from several generations of atheists and have never been baptised or christened. I'm definitely, certified, not a christian. But I recognise that I'm an atheist within a christian tradition and my views and values are part of that, as are the laws I have to adhere to and the social contracts I make - such as marriage, family structure and fidelity, and the business contracts I make - such as loans and interest. So I'm a different kind of atheist to an atheist from atheist from any other tradition.

Never happened at either of the secondary schools I went to.

No, not a CofS or Catholic school. They are happy to have the local Minister come along all of the time though, don't ever see a catholic priest, rabbi, imam or monk in the school (to be fair, not many of them around this way)

Just give it a swerve unless it will upset your lass - Only you know. I'm as atheist as it gets but I still went to the nativity every year because one of my lads was a wise man or whatever. British religion isn't really religion it's more like a way to use nice churches so they don't become flats and get better funding for certain schools.

I am going because she will be proud of herself and she wants to share that, happy enough with that. Would just prefer it not to be in church!

Nope: all state schools in the UK are required by law to have a daily act of collective worship, which is broadly Christian in nature.

this is frankly bollocks

I only go to church for weddings and funerals

hows that different to the service your daughter is taking part in? Its an occasional social obligation - if the school were requiring her to be in church every sunday that'd be something different. But its easter, its a one off and theres probably some chocolate involved

And why, for the sake of balance, are you not equally going to mosques, synagogs and hindu temples for weddings and funerals too? 🙂

I don't have a problem with religion, I see how it gives a lot of people comfort. I just don't like the way school seems to assume that the kids are Christian without actually teaching them that belief is a choice, in the same way that they could chose to be Buddhist etc.

its only primary school - she's got plenty of education left to fill in any blanks

Relax, from what my kids tell me Secondary schools are pretty much inline with your agnostic views (presumably not the catholic or Churchy academies though). For primary does it really matter? At that age the pros out weigh the cons, and most kids are in two minds about Father Christmas still.

And why, for the sake of balance, are you not equally going to mosques, synagogs and hindu temples for weddings and funerals too?

Would love to but not had the opportunity yet. Did go for a day out last summer to [url= http://www.samyeling.org/index/visiting ]Samye Ling Monastry[/url], it was amazing.

Consider it a life lesson in politeness. eg taking off shoes at other people's house's, respecting them if they say grace at mealtimes. Sometimes you have to do stuff to keep other people happy even if they believe in imaginary things.

I played Tambourine once in a service because I wanted to and I thrashed everyone at the audition.

Keeping kids out of stuff because of "religion" is as daft as religion in the first place. And you don't have to go to every thing your child is in. That's a good life lesson too.

I think it does very much matter that a child is being indoctrinated in this manner. Going to a service is fine maybe but reading out a prayer is a step too far imo. Imagine a muslim being asked to do this or a catholic in a c of e church.

We live in an "officially" Christian country. By default it's the primary religion of most people (in some variant). Not really surprising it's "taught" as default.

I went to christian schools, religious Scout groups etc. I learned very little (of Christianity, or other religions), it didn't interest me and I didn't see any relevance to real life or any interest for me. Same applied to all of my friends. Why worry, any half-sane child will make their own mind up when it actually matters?

I think it does very much matter that a child is being indoctrinated in this manner. Going to a service is fine maybe but reading out a prayer is a step too far imo. Imagine a muslim being asked to do this or a catholic in a c of e church.

Its not indoctrination though is it?- its participation in a social occasion - the OP says himself, he attends church services when the occasion calls for it, my muslim friend attend church services such as weddings and funerals when the occasion calls for it - they don't find it a big deal. School is practice for life isn't it?

Well the very fact that people think you can have a "default" religion based on country of birth is pretty sad imo. It highlights why I wont allow it for my son. If he decides for himself to be a god botherer I suppose it would be different but he aint going to default to anything.

I always remember "RE"being a doss subject but the most significant stuff i learned in school was in "SE" and "RE".

Maths, English, Science...pah. Mrs. Walker and Mr. Volwerk educated me in morality. Showed me genocide and horror. They taught me "humanity" and it's been far more constructive than long division or d=v/t.

Decade since and i remember my lessons in living far more than lessons in "learning".

Teachers are important.

Who cares, you think too much. Your kid will grow up believing whatever they want to believe. I was brought up Catholic and went to a Catholic secondary school, am now an aethiest. If anything you should be thanking them because being exposed to that BS daily will make them realise that it is BS a whole lot quicker.

I went through years of this "indoctrination" in Irish catholic schools. What kids go through in CofE here has nothing on what we went through. I don't believe a word of it now. It took me till my early teens to realise it. Nor, as far as I could ascertain, did any of my friends in university. Nor as far as I can ascertain do any of the ones I'm still in touch with now. I'm not saying "indoctrination" is a good thing, far from it, but in organised hypocrisies such as Western European Christianity, we tend to come out the other side of these things ok.

Well the very fact that people think you can have a "default" religion based on country of birth is pretty sad imo

who thinks that?

Hail Satan! 😈

Going to a church service to see what daft shite they get up to would be participating in a social event. Getting a person who is non religous to lead the prayers is a step too far and if you struggle to see that going to the odd funeral or wedding is different I guess discussing the matter with you is a waste of time.

We live in an "officially" Christian country.

Do we?

Going to a church service to see what daft shite they get up to would be participating in a social event. Getting a person who is non religous to lead the prayers is a step too far and if you struggle to see that going to the odd funeral or wedding is different I guess discussing the matter with you is a waste of time.

this is when I start to feel embarrassed about being an atheist. I actually feel shame when I read nasty crap like that

Well the very fact that people think you can have a "default" religion based on country of birth is pretty sad imo. It highlights why I wont allow it for my son. If he decides for himself to be a god botherer I suppose it would be different but he aint going to default to anything.

Wiki Quote:
"The Church of England is the established church in England.[329] It retains a representation in the UK Parliament and the British monarch is its Supreme Governor."

I don't believe any other religion has this in the UK?

70something % of the population considers themselves Christian in some form.

I'd say these things make this the default religion of the UK. It doesn't mean it's one you might want, or it's right to have a default. But it IS the default.

Lots of older schools were built using "christian" money to educate the poor and so by default have some sort of religion attached to them, obviously not so much now in a broadly secular society. Last school, obstenstably non-denominational but in a christian way. Did have imams, rabbis etc coming in to talk to the assembly (which ironically always ended with a nice sing-song) and went to sammy ling (sp).

I ignore th egod part but like the be nice to each other "rules" for life, which lets face it is pretty much what reiligion is, with a bogey man for the bad and a reward for the good, and an opportunity for the shysters to fleece the gullible.

Nope: all state schools in the UK are required by law to have a daily act of collective worship, which is broadly Christian in nature.

The Education (Scotland) Act 1980 (s8) recognises that historically it has been the practice for religious observance to be practiced within Scottish state schools; and permits local authorities to continue the practice provided that parents have the ability to "opt out". Scottish Government guidance is that any child whose parents have opted out should receive worthwhile education in its place.

In order for a local authority to chose not to provide this blanket approach it has to poll the entire electorate. Inevitably that makes it easier to continue than contemplate the alternative. There is no requirement for the activity to be daily. Scottish government guidance is for at least 6 times per annum. Parents have a right to withdraw their children which should be made clear and with sufficient information to base the decision on. The reality will almost certainly be different. I know of schools where if your child is not participating they should not attend school, and others where the activity they will be given is not of educational value. I've not tested it at our school as my son doesn't want to be "the only kid in the class who doesn't go".

Why in the 21st century this is still the case is a good question, but if you thought that the state was independent of the church you aren't looking very far. Sadly despite the scottish government's vocal commitment to removing sectarianism from society they have done little to address it.

but like the be nice to each other "rules" for life, which lets face it is pretty much what reiligion is,

Personally i think the slow move to a less religious society is a blessing but its a slow journey.

Edit.

Lets not forget that about a quarter of all primary schools are owned by the church, and the government is allowed to use the land and buildings for free...

We had similar issues at junior school. I simply politely declined and asked them to make alternate arrangements for my son. The school made various huffing noises about having to provide staff to look after my boy whilst the rest of the school went to church, but it was done.

To be honest we're the indifferent type of atheists as a family and we've raised both our boys to be objective and open minded and come to their own conclusions in good time. But I was pretty upset at the time about the general assumption that all the school children were by default Christian and that it would be ok to spend a morning in church, rather than at school. If the school had approached it differently, it probably would not have raised my ire quite so much.

To its credit,the school goes to great lengths to accommodate other religions, not so much those without a faith.

70something % of the population considers themselves Christian in some form.

Its only really 70% though because it what people default to because of things like the OP is talking about. I don't think most people really think about religion, but when they are asked in a sense they think, "Well, I was christened", or "My primary school was CoE", or "I guess I kind of believe in something" and because cultural default is Christianity that is the box they tick, because they don't think are are not bothered. Many of these people may not believe in God or if they "believe in something", that does not mean they are Christain, its just something they haven't thought about or don't think about much and just plump for the easy answer because they are not bothered. They may have some vague believe in a higher power this does not make the christian. A better question(s) might be:

1. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and he was sent to earth and he died to cleanse humanity of all our sins, that he rose again then ascended to heaven. That this shows God love for humanity as he sacrificed his son for humanity.
(This is my understanding of Christianity please correct if I am wrong)

Then a second question:
2. Do you believe in some form of higher being, or God, that there is someone or thing "above" us in some way?

I strongly suspect you would get a lot less than 70%. answering yes to #1.

Religious freedom is very important, and for many it offers great comfort, direction and community. In the OPs case he should just go and treat it as one of those going to see the kids things, but it is not right that the state should be funding religious schools and that if no one asks send them to a Christian church as default. It should be an after hours club if you are interested, that not to say schools should not teach about different religions, more teaching will occur to christianity due to the nature of history but this is different to being taken to church by the school.

Its also very sad that moral philosophy in frequently only taught within the context of religion, because it makes people equate morality with religion. Its not helpful for people to believe that the only way to morals are through religion, in fact personally I would say religion can (not does, can) hinder moral philosophy for some people due to immutable facts within their faith. This is definitely not the case for all religious people as many are very open to debate. The problem lies when a society at large associates morality and religion too closely. This can be seen by the fact that the church has some default seats in the house of Lords, primarily to offer moral guidance. This is not to say that it is a bad idea to have some seats reserved for those whose main concern when considering legislation should be that of morality and society; but it is bad when that view point comes solely from that of a religious perspective, and only one religious perspective.

[/End waffle]

P.S. From a personal point of view it would not so much aggravate me that my child was being taken to Church in terms of a cultural education but that they were being take to Church as an act of faith. Which given the fact that the op mentions that his child is doing a reading of prayer would suggest it is, I would not feel it to be right to ask someone who is not of faith to give a prayer. There is a massive assumption here that the OP child has not found God and he just does not know about it.

From my experience catholic schools aren't about indoctrination. They are about moralization. Nothing wrong with them. And tbh outside of primary school the catholic bit is virtually non existant. And even at primary schools its not the main focus. They even taught us about other religions and to respect them.

Now that's my experience of schools from the 80s and 90s. I'd imagine it takes even more of a back seat these days.

If people end up overtly religious they are getting it from their home IMO.

Basically this is a complete non issue.

Just go to fill up the bureaucratic tick box as it is only for a day then take it from there. That's how I will do it.

Hey what do I know as I am not a person of one God.

its okay for your daughter to believe in a fat bearded bloke in a red suit but not to take part in a religious service the basis of which is pivitol to the calendar and in this instance the reason she had pancake day and will be tucking into chocolate eggs in 3 weeks and not been able to sleep with excitement on the 24th december

our daughters go to a catholic school in the grounds of the catholic church, they ve been to mosques and synagogues this week they ve been tasting halal and kosher foods to highlight that infact there are no differences in taste just in preperation and the reasons behind that.. all seems fair and laudable to me.

i'm not relgious as i m from yarkshire and there is only one god

totalshell - Member
its okay for your daughter to believe in a fat bearded bloke in a red suit but not to take part in a religious service the basis of which is pivitol to the calendar and in this instance the reason she had pancake day and will be tucking into chocolate eggs in 3 weeks and not been able to sleep with excitement on the 24th december

These pivotal parts of the calendar which over right the previous festivals of mid winter and spring, where many old beliefs and mythologies are rolled up into a modern idea.

Schools should go to churchs, mosques, synagogues etc, in the same way they go to farms, zoo's and exhibitions. To look, observe and understand whats going on.

There was a great quote from Miroslav Volf () http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Volf)

Once you separate religion from power, then religion can be politically, publicly engaged and you don't have either secular exclusion of religion nor religious domination of society but you've got a vibrant, pluralistic society debating the nature of the good life.

If parents want to send their kids to religious schools then fine but just make sure they are going to cover the whole curriculum [url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-26437882 ]Jewish school redacts exam to remove evolution questions[/url]

I'm very atheist and am against the indoctrination and labelling of children. My wife's Catholic and our son's baptised. It doesn't really bother me as I'm sure he'll be intelligent enough to see the evil in religion and the beauty in science for what it is. Whenever my wife says our son's a Catholic, I make sure to point out he's a Tory, a staunch supporter of Exeter Chiefs and believes strongly that the free market works with extremely limited government intervention.

I went to a CofE prep school so know enough about religion to make it laughable.

Even though I went to a CofE school a few years ago (I'm 30 now), we learnt about Jews, Hindus, Muslims and the other 'main' religions.

See the morning as an education in what Christians believe for your daughter and not her selling her soul to a god. Enjoy it for what it is. Overcoming her nerves and reading to a crowd!

I'm very atheist and am against the indoctrination and labelling of children.

My wife's Catholic and our son's baptised.[b] It doesn't really bother m[/b]e

😕 Not sure I understand the logic there.

Basically this is a complete non issue.

According to you, obviously for the OP it isnt.
It seems many people on here are part of those "default" 70%.

I'm very atheist and am against the indoctrination and labelling of children.

Followed by,

My wife's Catholic and our son's baptised. It doesn't really bother me

Not sure I understand the logic there.

Because being baptised means no more to me or him than a little splash of water. Very different to indoctrination.

He goes to a non-denominational public school. If he was going to a school where it was explained to him that anyone from a different faith was going to hell blah blah blah then ... well, he wouldn't.

Ok, so your not that bothered about the labelling of children if the label doesn't mean anything to you.

So anything religious is fine as none of it would mean anything to you.

It means a lot more to you wife obviously.

Just have confidence in your daughter having the intelligence to make her own mind up. After all, that worked for you, and I'm sure you were subject to the same pressures.

Lots of folk have their children baptised or christened so that they can get them into nearby denominational schools because they feel they're performing better educationally - of course, whether this is true or not is another debate. Heck, I even considered it myself as an option for putting the little fella into a local Catholic school. Other than that, it wouldn't mean anything to me.

The problem lies when a society at large associates morality and religion too closely. This can be seen by the fact that the church has some default seats in the house of Lords, primarily to offer moral guidance. This is not to say that it is a bad idea to have some seats reserved for those whose main concern when considering legislation should be that of morality and society; but it is bad when that view point comes solely from that of a religious perspective, and only one religious perspective.

+1

Other than that, it wouldn't mean anything to me.

I'm not suggesting it should.

But as far as religion "labelling" goes, it's a pretty big one surely.

Hypothetically speaking...

I would be doing it totally hypocritically (as do, I assure you, many others who do the christening/church on Sundays/etc) to get my child into a "better" school. I'd have to turn up to Mass most Sundays. Maybe help with a bit of chippying in the church for free sometimes, bring a cake every so often and stick a fiver in the collection basket. Not much effort really. My child wouldn't be going around with a big "I'm a Roman Catholic, Bite Me" t-shirt all the time. Everyone would look at his uniform and me going to Mass saying "Yeah, you're only doing it for the schooling..." and they'd be right and I'd have to live with that. But millions all over the country do the same every week - and it really means bugger-all to them in the grand scheme of things because they feel they're getting a better education for their children and we all know that's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER!!!! No-one I know whose child goes to a Catholic school really believes all that shite - the most I could say is that some are agnostic bordering on atheism-lite (rather than STW style atheism, say). I'd assume that without the push from the parents (which mine wouldn't get), the "indoctrination" wouldn't take hold. That's pretty much my experience when discovering after losing my dad (who was the one who pushed us into church and was the "believer") in my teens that actually, my mum didn't really believe most of it - I soon got sense. I haven't been inside the door of a church (other than for organised displays of hypocrisy for friends) since I was around 15, IIRC.

The churches (CofE and RC) need arses on pews on a Sunday - and if it has to get this by better schooling (again, I'm not advocating it) - then that's what it does. If Catholic schools weren't out-performing their non-denominational counterparts, their respective chapels would be mostly empty.

I don't see any possible justification for indoctrinating children into religion, and the state certainly shouldn't be funding it. If people want to be religious they should be given the choice as adults.

I was brought up a Christian and went to Christian schools and it caused me a lot of anguish when I decided I didn't believe in any of it. Even late on in secondary school you were made to feel like a troublemaker if you didn't want to attend church services, and this was at a state comprehensive with no strong religious affiliation.

I am going because she will be proud of herself and she wants to share that, happy enough with that.

You are thinking too much about it. What you have said above is all that matters.

Children should have RE to better understand that people may or may not have a belief. Then let them draw their own conclusions.

Interesting replies, disappointing lack of religious nutters threatening me with Hell though.

I guess my kids are sharp enough to work stuff out for themselves. I went to a RC primary school and soon sussed out my own views. They will do the same in time. Like I say though, I welcome them being taught about beliefs, just a bit uneasy that it would appear Christianity is taught to them as [u]the[/u] religion, rather than just one of many.

Bless you all for your contributions! 😉

We are non religious, kids go to a CofE aided school, and Guide/Scout groups linked to local churches.

They sometimes go to church through these links. It hasn't done them any harm. They learn about all religions at school and through the media, not all of it positive. Neither child has any indication of being religious one way or the other.

It strikes me that parents who have issues with religion in school or wider society may have some issues of their own. Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

It strikes me that parents who have issues with religion in school or wider society may have some issues of their own. Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

🙄

It strikes me that parents who have issues with religion in school or wider society may have some issues of their own. Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

My experience is that many atheists* know the bible/Christianity better than many "Christians", and generally rather a lot more about other religions than "Christians".

*people who have consciously decided they're an atheist while living in a western 'Christian' country, rather than people who are simply without a belief in a god.

Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

We learn through observing and studying, there is no requirement to partake, especially when there are multiple things to study.

MoreCashThanDash - Member

Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

There's a difference between learning about religions and learning religion.

I wonder how it would go down in schools if kids were made to 'try out' being a Muslim.

It's not trying out different experiences it's trying out one experience and learning a bit about some others.

Refusing to learn about and try different experiences seems to me to blinkered and just as fundamentalist as the extreme end of any religion.

No its not and that's probably one of the most stupid things I have read on here.

There's a difference between learning about religions and learning religion.

you have summed up my feelings much better than I have managed to! The learn about other religions, then learn Christianity.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Basically this is a complete non issue.
According to you, obviously for the OP it isnt.
It seems many people on here are part of those "default" 70%.

As people have mentioned, kids are wise enough to figure it out for themselves.

Of all the people I know that go to church and take religion seriously, the main influence in that has been their parents.

Talk of indoctrination in schools is well wide of the mark.

ps I'm non-religious, i'm one of the ones that figured it out when I was 11/12 year old.

grum - Member

I wonder how it would go down in schools if kids were made to 'try out' being a Muslim.

Like this idea, you do it on rotas right? Monday you're a muslim, tuesday you're a christian, wednesday you're a buddhist, thursday you're a hindu, friday you're into shinto, Saturday you're an atheist, and you chill on sunday. (no offence to judaiism, I picked shinto because it rhymes with into)

Sure, kids are smart enough to figure things out themselves, but does that mean it's OK to try to brainwash them? On teaching time?

some of the views expressed above are frankly stunning. i m not a church goer kids go to a catholic school ( wife and family are catholics)

to dismiss people who believe as DD does is insulting to me. i have seen thier faith been incredibly comforting to the MIL and her sister who was literally a sister.

i ve never met a more inspiring thoughtful person than the MIL's sister. she was open honest and frankly the most interesting woman i ve ever met.

her faith was strong unquestioning and supported her through caring for desperate folk in desperate times.

i never heard her once speak of religion or for or against any faith or lack of it.

religion as she practised it was a way of life that meant giving everything she had practically and emotionally in support of others

we should be grateful that there are people such as her who make enourmous lifetime sacrifices for others.

if this thread was around peoples sexuality it would have been closed long ago for the bias and insults.

Northwind - Member
Sure, kids are smart enough to figure things out themselves, but does that mean it's OK to try to [b]brainwash [/b]them? On teaching time?

btw I also went through a period in my 20s when I was completely non religious and absolutely opposed to it. But well then I grew up and realised what actually happened.

to dismiss people who believe as DD does is insulting to me

Most people who actually attend church each week (~2% of the population IIRC) will believe, although not perhaps what you'd expect them to believe and (in England) they probably won't be fundamentalist or evangelicals).

Most people who tick the "Christian" box on the census (~70% of the population) won't believe. Sadly, this figure is the one used to maintain the influence religion has on policy and education (in England) rather than the [url= http://davidkeen.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/latest-church-of-england-attendance.html ]ever-declining church attendance figures[/url].

we should be grateful that there are people such as her who make enourmous lifetime sacrifices for others.

Lots of non-religious people do good stuff too - I'm not sure what your point is. You could argue people who do good deeds without the supposed reward of going to heaven are more altruistic.

if this thread was around peoples sexuality it would have been closed long ago for the bias and insults.

Where are the insults? And sexuality and religion are hardly the same are they - one is innate.

not quite sure how that fits in with brainwashing myself.

All you're arguing there is why religious indoctrination isn't that bad. Are there any reasons why we should do it though?

How exactly does this brainwashing work? During prayers for 2 minutes every day, or during the couple of events you go through and the prep for that(basically first communion, confession and confirmation(we did a play about the dangers of drugs, which was about 80% of it)) not quite sure how that fits in with brainwashing myself.

It was a great point made above, that people would think differently if kids were being marched off to other religious institutions.

I would much rather see religion in schools taught like history, geography or english lit discussing the merits and points of the cases. Understanding traditions and significance of those in world events. Looking at tolerance and understanding and how to accept that other people may not believe in the same version of history, concepts or ideas and that it's OK.

It's also important to understand that a society can function without religious guidance and is capable of it's own moral compass.

All you're arguing there is why religious indoctrination isn't that bad.

Yes but just because it isn't [i]that[/i] bad - that's not a good reason for doing it.

And personally I think it is quite damaging that we are taught to equate things like morality, social conscience, community spirit etc with religion - because people realise they don't believe any more a lot of the other stuff falls by the wayside too.

We should be able to teach kids to be good people without threatening that the magic man in the sky will get angry if they aren't.

Dunno about primary schools, but middle schools are supposed to teach about different faiths as part of RE. Ideally part of the curriculum should involve visiting mosques, churches, Gurdwara, synagouges etc. but of course this is restricted by local availability and time in the school day. Even adult atheists can learn a lot from talking to practitioners of particular religions.

English schools do not necessarily have a Christian bias. The enthusiasm in observing a particular festival can depend on the predominant religion of the pupils at that school.

Most people quite like a bit of pageantry, and that's what a lot of religion is. You can have a bit of fun without actually believing.

Its the Jehova's Witnesses kids I feel sorry for. They're not allowed to take part in anything.

Dunno about primary schools, but middle schools are supposed to teach about different faiths as part of RE. Ideally part of the curriculum should involve visiting mosques, churches, Gurdwara, synagouges etc. but of course this is restricted by local availability and time in the school day. Even adult atheists can learn a lot from talking to practitioners of particular religions.

I bet they don't actually go and take part in a service at a mosque or synagogue though do they? And on a regular basis?

I'll be very surprised if they do. I certainly didn't at my schools. We were taught about other religions but essentially taught that ours was the right one.

that's not a good reason for doing it.

Faiths schools, only make up a certain percentage of schools, they aren't every school so there are options for people if they want to. Plus as has been mentioned, you can opt your children out of the religious parts if you like.

Well in society there are people that believe it is a good idea, in tolerant society, we try and accommodate these people.

By the same token - shouldn't they be tolerant of people who don't think it's a good idea and not try to force it upon them? If religious people want to indoctrinate their children I suppose that's up to them - but no way should it be state funded or happen at normal state schools.

Faiths schools, only make up a certain percentage of schools, they aren't every school so there are options for people if they want to. Plus as has been mentioned, you can opt your children out of the religious parts if you like.

My school wasn't a faith school, and we still went to religious services and had prayers in assembly etc. And you were made to feel like a troublemaker for opting out.

I was brought up a Christian and went to Christian schools and it caused me a lot of anguish when I decided I didn't believe in any of it. Even late on in secondary school you were made to feel like a troublemaker if you didn't want to attend church services, and this was at a state comprehensive with no strong religious affiliation.

In contrast, I went to a Catholic Primary and then a Catholic Secondary school.

When I decided around the age of 14 that I didn't want to attend Church anymore it didn't cause me, or anyone else, any anguish at all.

School were perfectly understanding about it, and already had arrangements for those who didn't want to attend.

My Mum, who is Catholic, was also understanding about it, and knew it was my decision to make and was happy as long as I was happy.

I wasn't made to feel like a troublemaker by anybody, and had the freedom to make my decision and do what I felt suited me.

And you were made to feel like a troublemaker for opting out.

English schools do not necessarily have a Christian bias.

They do. By law.

My Mum, who is Catholic, was also understanding about it, and knew it was my decision to make and was happy as long as I was happy.

When she's in heaven, you'll be in hell.