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I can't offer you an answer but, I have a 3 1/2 year old and 9 month old. I'm 30.
I guess I always knew I'd want children but couldn't have ever given it a time frame.
This morning, after 3 hours sleep (#2 has had an ear infection and raging temperature for 3 days), #1 'missed' the toilet and I was mopping up piss from the floor as it soaked up my pyjama legs. My whole house smells of puke.
I wouldn't change my life for anything.
Why not put the ball in her court? It doesn't sound like she's given you an ultimatum. Just be honest.
FWIW, my wife and sons and I live in S.E. Asia. One was born in The Philippines, one in Thailand. We've been to many amazing places. This Christmas we're taking them to Myanmar for a couple of weeks. Cambodia (again) next Easter. We went on a 1,500km road trip this Easter. Children mean changes, not the end of fun.
Me and Mrs S were planning on having kids. Then we saw what happened to all our friends who'd become parents. It put us both off completely.
And for those who say we are only here to reproduce - Pah! What rot.
We're here to do what make we want. The limits of that are defined by the law and one's ethics.
i let the love of my life go for the very reason the OP talks about, she didnt want kids 'right now' but she wanted to in the future and was aware of the ticking clock (we were both 30ish at the time) i would have done anything for her and that included sacrificing my own happiness for hers.
i told her that adoption was an option but its different for women, there is that biological hunger
didnt see her for a few years but we are good friends again now. she now doesnt want kids any more but the breakup was very hard on both of us so the magic we had is too badly tainted for us to get back together.
i would say that unless you have given serious consideration to having a vasectomy then you know that you at least possibly want kids. tell her that, tell her its a maybe. who knows what the future holds, maybe you will begin to really want kids in a few years, maybe she will change her mind, maybe you two wont be able to have kids. maybe you will look back at this thread with a nipper on your knee and laugh at how little you knew 10 yrs ago. (im constantly amazed at how i was 10 yrs ago, i will be agian 10 yrs from now)
if she is yearning for children with you then you are making her feel happy and safe and comfortable. if you are deliberating so much over the issue then you will make a good father as you obviously care. not everyone does.
makecoldplayhistory- can i ask what you do for a living?
My wife's a primary teacher and I'm an ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher.
I'm studying to become a primary teacher. We're by no means wealthy, but do pretty well ex-pat teacher packages. Investing / saving as well as holidays and living well.
Kids don't need to end your travelling.
I never went abroad as a child. But I just counted on my fingers, and our kids have now been to at least 12 countries outside the UK (which has been a very positive thing for their knowledge, outlook and experience - just the same reasons you are probably travelling for now).
At 25 we were both busy with work, travel and my wife racing mtb XC up to international level - kids were not on the agenda at that time. You will both change in some way - you just don't know what way yet 🙂
If you are going to regret anything, it's putting a downer on what should be one of the best periods of your life.
Very true, i'm trying to hold onto this thought.
Theres only one path for you: http://foreignlegion.info/joining/
Get in whilst your still young and fit. think of the boozing stories you will be able to tell 😀
I havent read all three pages but wanted to pass on my opinion and experiences. I've recently separated from a six year relationship with due to being married for a few reason but one large part of it was the fact I dont want children and my ex very much does. By the sound of your post you're really not too bothered either way whether you do or dont have them but you're not completely opposed. You need to consider whether you're prepared to compromise or whether you're really just not bothered either way. Thats a lot of time away as well so a lot can change between now and then, you will of lived more of your life and experienced all the things you want to and besides life isnt over when you have kids, it just has to change its priorities. For me after six years although I was always prepared to compromise and do anything for him eventually I changed enough that I have never been more certain of anything and I had to walk away so much for him as for me.
25 and you are having concerns of kids...grab a beer and experience life..... that stuff just happens.
40.. going on 30 something with 3 kids and a PhD from the university of life
andyfla - Member
Kids are ace, screw your life up, but its great fun
+1
You don't have to stop doing the things you do because of kids.
Just adapt the way you do them. It's good for kids to go on their parents adventures.
I don't know anyone who would dump their kids and go back to their previous life.
I still remember the day I found out vividly. I sat on the floor for about an hour. stunned. I couldn't process the information. I also felt scared. Fast forward 5years I feel like I've got the daftest brush, a mini-me, someone who (in a staunchly Christian school where they are taken to the connecting church regularly) often say 'oh God!' if something isn't working/or broken something. He wont stop saying it- we've tried.
I think it's great that the OP and his partner are having this discussion. Loads of couples I know who got together in their 20s moseyed along not really facing up to the fact that they ultimately wanted different things from life.
Mid-20s is too young to definitively rule out kids, but it's also (with respect) too young to designate a "love of your life".
🙂
Not got time to read the thread now but
I am not wealthy so would have to work mad hours to support children
It doesn't need to cost much. Unless you need to pay full whack for childcare...
Can't be arsed reading through 3 pages of stuff when the simple answer is having kids is the best thing ever.
Not sure if this helps or not, but some friends are currently back packing in Malaysia with a three year old. The pictures would suggest they are all having lots of fun together.
Can't be arsed reading through 3 pages of stuff when the simple answer is having kids is the best thing ever.
For you they are. For many others they aren't. The problem is when you ask a parent "do you regret having kids?" virtually none will say "yes I do" even if they do regret it.
Me? I spent 3 hours with my 2 year old niece yesterday, that was enough to further cement that neither me or my wife want our own thank you.
Didn’t have my 1st till child until I was 35 ,plus I was in no position for children at the age of 25 too busy going clubbing every weekend..
I now have two and its fantastic but bloody hard work - my eldest (4.5years) is now coming out on his mountain bike and its great we went over to Gisburn on the weekend…
Went through the same thing! Long ago in a faraway universe now, but I never wanted kids. At around 30 the (now-ex) wife decided she did (or [i]something[/i] within her decided it did).
So we split up.
Then she came back.
We had a child a few years later and he's amazing. Never thought love like that for someone could be possible.
Then we spilt again and breaking up that child's family is the most heartbreaking thing ever.
So. You decide. It's your life. No-one else can really advise you in such matters.
At 25 you're still a child, you're even demonstrating by your selfishness that fact, ten more years and you might be in a position to think about it, as for your partner she needs to ditch you and find someone who really cares about her feelings, someone ten years older than her, short and has a way with little people. 😉
That a bit rough tyrionl1. By carefully considering if he wants a child or not he is being 'selfish'? So from that we should all breed as fast as we can as soon as we are able? 😕 Sometimes having children in itself is selfish.
OP, up to you. I think you're being really mature in actually discussing the issue. Best of luck with what you choose.
In my 20's I really didn't want kids mostly due to the financial and freedom side of things. I now have two boys of 14 and 10 and frankly I was right they are mostly a pain in the arse, bleed me dry, are a constant source of worry and concern, oh and the fighting - My goodness the fighting....
Also my wife is now their mother not my partner which I also didn't sign up for.
However I find that when they aren't there or I am away all I want to do is get back to them so there's that I suppose.
I think having a blood relative that actually gives a f*ck about you when you are in your 70's & 80's could be a nice thing.
[i]That a bit rough tyrionl1[/i]
I get the feeling he was joking...
Kids don't need to end your travelling.
Very true.... but heres a little secret.
A trip to the local park with your nippers is just as much fun as deepest darkest South America.
Happiness doesn't have to be 5000 miles away... the wonders of the world are easily replaced if not superseded by the wonders of your child doing something for the first time.
A little example from yesterday ... My lad starting riding his bike without stablizers the other week, yday he got going on his own without any help.... A day l'll always remember and it happen in a very unmarkable country park next to the M25.... Heaven.
Good luck ... don't sweat it.... You'll find your way
AdamW - Member
That a bit rough tyrionl1. By carefully considering if he wants a child or not he is being 'selfish'? So from that we should all breed as fast as we can as soon as we are able? Sometimes having children in itself is selfish.
If she wants kids then I'm leaving her? So is that not selfish - seriously? They're 25, kids shouldn't have kids.
DezB - Member
That a bit rough tyrionl1I get the feeling he was joking...
Well there was a winky icon which kind of suggests an element of irony, but the message contained shouldn't be lost after all she is way to old for him mentally.. She is only looking for a commitment after all sounds to me reading between the lines that he's already got the skids under him.
Well I had assumed it was all jokey but since you're suggesting that's not the case, I'll just point out the IME age and selfishness are not linked. Plenty of people either don't 'grow' out of it and IME plenty grow into it.
Truer words never spoken.
I spent 3 hours with my 2 year old niece yesterday, that was enough to further cement that neither me or my wife want our own thank you.
Three hours with my neice and nephew would put anyone off 😉
When I was a little girl, I always thought I'd grow up and get married, have two children. But I had a difficult relationship with my mother - she had mental health issues and is a functioning alcoholic, and when I was 9-18 would regularly tell me how although she loved me and my brother, if she had her time over, she wouldn't have had kids, that kids ruined her life, lost her friends, ruined any chance of a career, ruined her body, etc. It was my dad who wanted kids apparently (he was ace).
I've always been terrified that I'd end up like her (hence being teetotal until I was 33, still only drink very rarely now), and I never wanted to have a child that I resented. I love children, but I'm scared that I'd end up resenting them if they ruined my career (not helped by the fact that at the studio I worked at for 8 years, every woman who got pregnant was either demoted or made redundant!).
At 25 I definitely didn't want kids. I'm 48 now and still don't. No regrets. I have been with my partner/wife 20 years now and she didn't want them either - however there was never any "if you do I don't" type of ultimatum discussed from either side back when it was still an option. I think we both just made sure we had similar opinions in the important areas before any serious commitment?
You should chill and keep enjoying yourselves until something different seems to be a good idea - or if it doesn't then carry on.
As an aside - ignore all the comments about "kids being the best thing ever" - what the hell else is any parent ever going to say?
And anyone who has had kids "to look after you when you're old" has had them for the wrong reason and will probably be very disappointed with their offspring when the time comes!
As an aside - ignore all the comments about "kids being the best thing ever" - what the hell else is any parent ever going to say?
Honestly, we don't just say it in case our wives have been reading our posts..
I've stayed out of this up to now... but from my perspective, I've never ever wanted kids... it's not a desire that's come out to me saying "I must have one..."
However... I didn't NOT want one either... it just never entered my mind either way.
Now I have one... it's mind blowing 🙂
Each day my lad makes me happy... in many different ways each day...
Even when he's being frustrating.
He's 7 in a few weeks and honestly is my best mate 🙂
[i]I spent 3 hours with my 2 year old niece yesterday, that was enough to further cement that neither me or my wife want our own thank you.[/i]
I wonder if some people make the decision after watching "We Need to Talk About Kevin"...
I wonder if some people make the decision after watching "We Need to Talk About Kevin"
Not sure about that but I am assured by my wife that One Born Every Minute is one of the finest forms of contraception known to anyone, 15 minutes watching that and she has no interest in letting me anywhere near here for fear of ending up "pushing one of those out of that".
Weeksy +1
Have 3 boys now, would have had more but for pure practicalities.
But for the OP I think 25 is maybe a bit young to make ultimatums one way or other. I've been with my wife since 19 (she was 17), we didn't marry till she was 30, and the first was born a year later. In between we were tied up with careers and buying houses and playing on bicycles. I don't regret waiting as I think I was better equipped to deal with the change once I felt we were 'stable' in practical terms (the relationship was never an issue).
That said, if you are 100% sure you never want that, then you've got a lot of talking and a tough (but brave and possibly for the best all round) choice to make. Good luck.
As an aside - ignore all the comments about "kids being the best thing ever" - what the hell else is any parent ever going to say?
Nothing. Children *ARE* the best thing ever.
But I, like many others on here, didn't enter fatherhood until my 40s because I never felt ready before.
I went over to the Philippines a few years back with my university girlfriend and now wife.
All her younger cousins and their friends fit the Asian stereotype, well behaved and shy. British two year olds though, always seem to be total nightmares. I'm hoping it's genetic or something.... 😀
some more balance
I have 2 kids -the eldest, she;s not so bad though at 5 has turned into a teenager already. The youngest he's a whole new level of how to push it... it has it's good times, but they are outweighed by the bad at the moment - i'm told it gets better. I was for the most part a very chilled person - i'm not anymore.
Walla24
I split from my ex for this reason. I didn't want kids, she did. I think she thought I'd change my mind. I certainly don't regret it. Now 12yrs on I'm very happily married to someone who feels the same way as me regarding children.
Ok, here is my go.
I am 29 now, got married last month and bought a house in Feb.
Around the same age as you I think I was living in Australia with my girlfriend (now my wife). Before I went out there, I was still living with my mum, had a job that paid enough for me to enjoy myself and had no cares really. I wasn't really thinking of kids, pretty much the same reason as you. They would take all my money and free time.
Since then we have done plenty of travelling (mainly around Asia with bits of Europe). We rented a house before buying ours.
As time has gone on, things change. I am now looking forward to having kids and plan on starting my family after our honeymoon (safari trip in Africa).
Saying they take all your money on whatever you are currently earning might be correct, but a few years down the line you might be working somewhere else on a different wage and feel far more comfortable.
The biggest change I have felt is that I feel more grown up, I looked for a better job (not because of anything, just wanted a difference career) and enjoy facing new challenges.
The thing I am most looking forward to is getting my kid(s) into the things I love, mainly biking. I am hoping as they grow up they keep pushing me to ride more rather than feeling like I have less time to get out on my bike.
End of the day though, only you can make the decision about your life. If you are set in your mind that kids are not for you, fine. As others have said, talk to your GF and tell her, let her decide what the next move is.
However, if there is a doubt about not wanting kids in the future, I say hold onto that. Hopefully your mindset will change as you age.
Either way, you can have a couple of years together before all of this becomes more of an issue. Enjoy yourselves now, see how things go down the line.
(Sorry for that being a bit rambled)
There is no greater love than a man/woman has for his/her child. You only discover the absolute meaning of the word upon their birth and realise that the word love is totally inadequate given its' use to describe other relationship emotions which are different.
As there is also no greater loss to a man/woman than the death of ones child especially when the word grief is used for many other less than agonising events.
These emotions are part of the process that comes to eventually define you and your ability to deal with this conundrum that is life and are such that you really need to share them with another, it is a long journey full of setbacks, disasters, successes and failures, not a decision really to be taken as lightly as folk often do.
If one were wanting to wax deep on the subject.
Honestly, we don't just say it in case our wives have been reading our posts..
I didn't say you were. And I'm not saying kids aren't great for their parents - I'm just trying to say that he should ignore that comment because every parent loves their kids and thinks parenthood is great i.e. you are all somewhat biased
When people do say it (not type it) though it does sometimes sound to me like they are more trying to convince themselves it's true than me! 😉
My tuppence worth. If I were you, I'd let her go.....but you're not.
Objectively: most people in a long term relationship end up with kids. Most of those love their kids and don't regret having them. (Biology in action) The chances are therefore good that you won't regret having children in the future, especially if you are just unsure. As a 52 year old in an 18 year marriage I know my own views on having children, but these are very much in the minority. The odds are that you will feel differently when you are 35, but of course it isn't a certainty.
When I was 25 I was readying to leave a London design job to work as a MTB guide in Spain. OK, I was free and single, but I certainly had no wish to have kids.
You have a lot of quality time yet, but you may change. I did.
Just checked in, amazed and very grateful for you taking the time to post.
Again I'll be reading through this with my partner because it is very useful considering all the different perspectives.
Il just quickly reiterate that I have never wanted kids, always spoke my mind about it and she knows/knew. She used to not be that worried, tried to convince herself that she didn't want them, but know is almost certain she does and has a timeframe set in her mind.
We talk openly and honestly. We are both aware that this isn't a situation that can be compromised and that potentially it may lead to us heading down separate paths.
This, for me is the biggest decision with the biggest potential for massive and long lasting regret I have ever had to make.
While I'm not looking for the answer to be given to me in this thread (it can't be), your perspectives are incredibly helpful.
Is there a shortage of humans on the planet or something? 😛
You could always wait 20 years and adopt a coupla 10yr olds
Do you think there are any other fit sane single ladies out there who don't want kids? You may end up a lonely middle aged man living alone, just another angle...
I have 2 kids,23 and 6,both have turned my world upside down.
Never wanted children but wouldn't change it for the world.
Children are awsome,shown me how to love and experience what love is.
So much joy, laughter and tears,they have the knack of stretching you to your emotional limits one minute to pure joy the next.
I never planned on kids,it just happened,so glad it did though.
Being an older father is better in my experience,so there is no hurry.
On Children by Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
It's a situation I have been through, made harder by being with a woman who was a few years older so time tables were advanced.
If it's an issue now it will remain an issue, hard thing to say really. As many of the posts read it's the best thing in the world if it's for you. Never do it to save a relationship as those feelings have to end up somewhere. In my case I'm glad I didn't cave in as it would have ended badly I think.
Do you think there are any other fit sane single ladies out there who don't want kids? You may end up a lonely middle aged man living alone, just another angle...
Not the best reason to get with the program is it.
mikewsmith - Member
"Do you think there are any other fit sane single ladies out there who don't want kids? You may end up a lonely middle aged man living alone, just another angle..."
Not the best reason to get with the program is it.
Oh, it is. Otherwise he'll end up living with cat lady.
And I don't mean the attractive one in the tight fitting suit... 🙂
[b]djglover[/b]
Do you think there are any other fit sane single ladies out there who don't want kids? You may end up a lonely middle aged man living alone, just another angle...
That's the situation I've found myself in, no normal women left!!
Still don't want kids, I'll just buy more bikes and get a cat or two. Plenty of adventures to go on that wouldn't be possible if I was tied down.
Plenty of adventures to go on that wouldn't be possible if I was tied down
Why not ? I spent 5 days at Portimao riding my Ducati round track a few weeks back.
Mrs Weeksy is off for 7 days holidays with the girlies in a couple of weeks...
I'm 67 had my kids quite young, 3 by the time I was 25! No mountain biking back in the day but I was a very active climber. Yes had to compromise on some activity, no trips to Yosimite or the Alps for a few years. But by the time I was 40 and at my best climbing wise my middle son was leading me up E4/5,s. As a family we had great trips/adventures which include a whole year in the States and I did get to Yosimite. Yes having kids young will put the reins on a bit but imagine those trips and rides you will get to do when their downhill gods and your hanging onto their tails. Go for it you won't regret it.
I'm 67 had my kids quite young, 3 by the time I was 25! No mountain biking back in the day but I was a very active climber. Yes had to compromise on some activity, no trips to Yosimite or the Alps for a few years. But by the time I was 40 and at my best climbing wise my middle son was leading me up E4/5,s. As a family we had great trips/adventures which include a whole year in the States and I did get to Yosimite. Yes having kids young will put the reins on a bit but imagine those trips and rides you will get to do when their downhill gods and your hanging onto their tails. Go for it you won't regret it.