[Closed] Rehousing a dog

She’s a teenager at the moment, going on timescales/age in your post. So she’s pushing boundaries like any teenager does.
Just stay calm & collected and consistent with your treatment of her. It will get better.

I've had a few BC's and they're very, very protective of their pack, which includes the family.

Have you tried any distraction techniques such as compressed air behind it's head when it's being naughty? Best way to snap it out of it, worked for me with many dogs.

What's changed in the last three months? I assume she was fine before then?
There's plenty of places do dog behavioural therapy and training, depending on where you are.
Have you asked the vet? Weird medical condition sending her doolally?

Forgot to add we’ve tried a behavioural therapist and she’s been on those dog calming pills since before Xmas.

We took her to North wales in the car last August. She bit her way out of the travel crate and was rampaging around the car in a panic! That was a fun 3 hr drive!

We have a cat that now lives upstairs and won’t come down. The dog will get a glimpse every so often and will get sent bananas (I guess understandably).

Tbh, it feels like we’re not quite the home she needs, too many things to trigger her

I’ve never seen such a high strung, anxious dog

Depends how worried you really are, a behaviourist would be my first stop.

Brain exercises as well as the physical stuff. You currently have a very fit un-balanced dog. Find some tasks for the dog, she appears to be under stimulated mentally. Hide and seek around the house for you and for treats/toys.

That sounds interesting ^^^

Will give hide and seek and go

Where abouts are you? Someone might be able to recommend a good behaviourist local to you.

Just try to remember, you dog isn't giving you a hard time, you dog is having a hard time.

Having said that, of there's been a sudden change with no obvious trigger, you might want to check with a vet to check there's no medical reason for it.

We’re just outside derby 👍🏻

We're north east Derbyshire and used Julia from Balance behaviour

The rescue dog she helped us with 4 years ago is now a pretty good stooge dog for other reactive hounds. In fact, I can think of at least two where she's the only dog that can get within 30m of them.

I’ve rehomed a dog with aggression issues as well as adopting a dog that was too hyper / destructive behaviours. How does the dog respond with an experienced trainer? There’s a big difference between nipping with excitement and being aggressive. If you are genuinely worried for your families safety and welfare then handing it over to a dog rescue might be the only option, but be aware that many won’t take ‘aggressive’ dogs for rehoming and some will simply put the dog to sleep.

Some other incidents.

Last time she was off the lead, she was fine for ages then suddenly went into prowl mode! At my kids! She stalked along and then ran at them! Luckily me screaming snapped her out of it!

She would often be fine off the lead but then just suddenly turn! She’d growl and run at me, snapping as she goes

Over Xmas she got triggered by my daughter running a bit. She tried to go at her but was on the lead. She was so snarky and aggressive trying to bite me. Luckily I could pull her away from me using the lead. This was particularly scary!

My wife just said it’s aggressive not playful, I’d tend to agree sadly

Sounds awful for you and your family 🙁
I would however exhaust all options before giving up on the dog.

The place we got her from quite unenthusiastic with replying to me.

What were you expecting, a warranty return? Hard to see how it's their problem.

Collies are working dogs, they need a lot of exercise and stimulation. Are you teaching her tricks? She's walking six miles a day, how far is she being run? Maybe a big open space and one of those slingshot ball flinger things might tire her out a bit?

We rehomed an adult dog, from a friend's dad who died, with issues, it took a chunk out of our other dog in the first two weeks, but no deliberate aggression to people (though if startled from sleep would come up teeth first to see what was going on). We bought a muzzle after that first aggression, and after a few months he calmed down and became loyal and loving. He never once left the house again without the muzzle and didn't seem to resent it and had seven happier years with us.

Your dog seems on another level, in your position I'd feel awful about it, but not hesitate to ask the vet for an opinion, with the expectation of accepting a recommendation of having her put down. We love our dogs, but this one isn't right. I'd be wary of returning her to the kennel too, many times returned dogs get rehomed again with glowing references unforunately. Sorry.

We had a very similar experience from a small dog rescue charity. Didn't want to know when we had issues with it. Refused to answer emails etc. They bring them over and the charity just moves on to brining the next dog over. It's why I'd only ever deal with a large dog rehoming charity again. They have the after support that helps the dog settle. Ignore what Cougar said. Any decent dog rehoming charity will have support for after the rehoming has taken place. The good well resourced ones will also take the dog back if it isn't the right home. In comparison to the small charity, the Dogs Trust was amazing. So much support and ensure the dog gets the right home.

The last thing you want is the dog biting a child. I'd be on the phone to the charity demanding support or for them to re-home the dog. Luckily the small charity found a new home for the one we had for a short time. It did take us threatening to take the dog to the bluecross/RSPCA etc (part of the contract said we couldn't use another charity to re-home the dog).

It also sounds like the cat isn't having a great time? Is it scared of said dog? I'd only say, it was the cats home first.

You've done all the right things. I'd speak to vet. But if I was in your position, I'd be looking to re-home the dog.

That's awful, but i just wouldn't mess around with a young kid involved

Sorry I'll not much help. Hope you get it sorted

+1 for the dogs trust and also Manchester Dogs Home.
Our dog was in MDH for 3months so the full time carers know his personality and character. We took a week of visiting him and walks round the block till we were sure he was the one for us. Been a magical 4years so far.

As above though intelligent dogs need mentally tiring.

We play cheese and seek around the house and he has a puzzle mat with varying levels of velcro tabbed puzzles that he has to solve. Was great lockdown when we couldn't go out as much.

Our walks are always with lots of directional commands 'Bert - left' 'Bert - right' 'Bert go round' , straight on jump, on etc etc as well as the usual stuff, also hand signals 'stop, cross, come back, speed of walk - 1/2/3 fingers.
He absolutely loves going to the local park as I have him jumping up and standing on decorative rocks and jumping over the wood balance beams. Just try and mentally tire it as much as possible - it will love you for it.

Question - how did you get her trained in the early days?

I can’t help thinking this is really important as those are her foundations with you as a family. She is clearly having a hard time of it right now.

How many behaviourist sessions have you had and what sore to activities are they recommending?

I'd love to wrap it up in warm words, but...

...get rid.

And have a ready supply of dog crack (aka baked liver treats) for rewarding good behaviour and ignoring the bad (not as easy as it sounds).

Cheers for all the info, some helpful stuff.

Guess I forgot to register her warranty…

We had a very similar experience from a small dog rescue charity. Didn’t want to know when we had issues with it. Refused to answer emails etc. They bring them over and the charity just moves on to brining the next dog over.

Sums up a lot of the smaller animal charities. They mean well but they're staffed by volunteers, quite often "administered" via FB message board and just don't have the resources or experience to assist with difficult animals.

It is a really tough position to be in OP. I felt awful and as though I'd let the dog down, which wasn't the case. I think many of those small organisations let the animals down by not providing enough support, assessing the dogs or checking suitability of homes. Ultimately, the dog just needs the right home.

Sounds like you've given it a great start though. Hope all goes OK OP.

Do you all agree that she’s got to go? (Before one of the kids gets their face bitten off!)

Yes.

One thing to consider is while trying to 'tire her out' dogs and especially collies have infinitely more energy than we do and by trying to tire her out with exercise you're just going to make her fitter so you'll find yourself having to do more and more and more trying to find that upper limit which I dont think you'll find. You need to tire her brain out and not her legs so yeah games of hide and seek, try teaching her the names of your toys and then getting her to go and find them, could you go along and try some agility as that'll engage her brain along with the exercise at least, try some of the brain puzzles that exist, try teaching her lots and lots of new tricks.

Having said all of that you've not said what your experience is with dogs previously so I'm making an assumption seeing as you discussed it for a long long time. Collies are FAR FAR from easy dogs and it sounds to me like you've taken on too much for a fairly inexperienced home (again assumption so feel free to ignore me) and I feel like it would be better for both your family and more importantly the dog if you spoke with some rescues about moving her to someone who can cope with her behavioral issues.

mrwhyte + 1.
We used to foster rescue dogs for a local rehoming charity and getting a proper understanding of the dogs needs before rehoming was critical. Some dogs would never properly settle in our relatively small and busy family home but take away some of the daily stressors and they literally transformed. I think with rescues and the baggage they carry that some homes are simply not a fit.. The stress this brings to the dog and the owners is real. Talk to the charity and good luck.

The dog is basically a teenager now. You've had her 18 months, she was 4 months when you got her... Dogs go through a teenage phase just like humans do.

Has she been spayed? That can sometimes help with behavioural issues.

I don't really know much about collies but agree with the above that they will no doubt need mental stimulation as well as physical exercise, the highly intelligent ones generally do. Is she well socialised? If she's in her teens and finding boundaries, they often do this by play fighting and nipping at each other until told off (by another dog).

Just in my experience with owning spaniels and growing up with various breeds, most dogs only resort to biting when they feel threatened, scared, anxious, etc. If you can figure out what she is worried about it might help.

Finally, dogs pick up on your mood so if you and your family are anxious and worried she will feel that. Could be she feels like she needs to protect you / your family because you are worried about something?

Yep, spayed last August.

Just been playing hide her ball under blankets in the sofa.

Brain exercises as well as the physical stuff. You currently have a very fit un-balanced dog. Find some tasks for the dog, she appears to be under stimulated mentally. Hide and seek around the house for you and for treats/toys.

+1million

Last time she was off the lead, she was fine for ages then suddenly went into prowl mode! At my kids! She stalked along and then ran at them! Luckily me screaming snapped her out of it!

Over Xmas she got triggered by my daughter running a bit. She tried to go at her but was on the lead.

She's a herder, what you're describing is what's been bred into them as instinct over hundreds/thousands of years.

Collies are massively intelligent dogs, so you need to give her some work to do otherwise she will always act up. They also have a tendency to be [swear filter avoidance] holes, so you need to deal with it before it gets too out of hand.

A friend has a Rough Collie that she's spent so much time teaching it various skills, everything from herding to acting as a mental health support dog to give him things to do, because he needs to be working 24/7 otherwise he starts thinking for himself and that's trouble. It's great, if she looks anxious he starts walking around her in circles to clear her personal space, and will pretend to need to go out if given quite a subtle signal when she wants to leave. He's become so receptive to training as a result that when the vet said "balls" he jumped on the table and rolled on his back because he lies on his back at home and people comment on them 🤣

trying to ‘tire her out’ dogs and especially collies have infinitely more energy than we do and by trying to tire her out with exercise you’re just going to make her fitter

+1, more brain exercises not more physical exercise. We have a Romanian rescue, she was quiet a church mouse for the first 6 months, then has turned in to a loudest guard dog ever at home. Though fine otherwise, but [all] the neighbours need to go, according to her. These foreign dogs are really not without there issues, it's great were all helping but they really need to give support & not basically abandon the dogs on you.

Partner has really gotten into to dog training, since we got our two rescues. She suggest contacting https://thedogspov.com/ (Romanian dog specialists) and they will put you in contact you to a local specialist & there lots of info on their website.

Do you do anything to help her self calm? Lucky mats, snuffle mats or Kong's stuffed with Forthglade or similar?

Snuffle mats are great as most dogs find using their nose exhausting. Maybe look into some scent training.

Long read forwarded by Mrs Bubs.. Hope it helps. Taken from a Dog Training Support and Advice FB site.

So what is your Border Collie NOT good at?

by Sue Kinchin,

If you have a Border Collie you have a very special dog; a dog that is intelligent, sensitive, eager to please and very quick to learn. Sounds like the perfect pet? Yes, with our help they can make wonderful pets, but we need to remember that when we take one of these very special and complex dogs into our homes we have a responsibility to try to understand all the factors that make a Border Collie what it is. The more we can understand our Border Collies the less likely it is that we, and our collie, will encounter serious problems. Border Collies have been bred for generations in a very specific and restricted environment for a very specific task and, as a breed, are relative new-comers to life as pets. Some cope very well and others struggle. It is our duty to try to understand these beautiful, clever creatures and to help them to cope.
We can easily find books that tell us what Border Collies have been bred for. We will be warned about their sensitivity to movement and tendency to chase things and about the fact that they need to have their brains occupied, but what we are not generally asked to think about are those characteristics that are not necessary in a working sheepdog, but which make life easier for a pet dog.
Anyone who has owned Border Collies will be aware that they are generally cautious dogs. Without intensive and sensitive socialisation as puppies they are often wary of people, intolerant of unfamiliar dogs and anxious about anything new or changing. Even with intensive socialisation some retain these characteristics. Border Collies are prone to being affected by a single bad experience and have poor "bounce back" when something goes wrong for them.
They are very sensitive to reprimands, but equally crave guidance and instruction. Because they are very sensitive to movement, any fast movement that they cannot control can be very disturbing to them. No wonder so many Border Collies hate traffic. Remember though, it is this sensitivity and intelligence that we find so appealing.
So why are they like this? Why can life upset them so easily? To understand our collies fully we need not only to consider what they have been bred for,.but also what they have not been bred for.
When a shepherd is selecting dogs to breed from he is selecting for a specific task and characteristics that do not interfere with this task are likely to be ignored.
Over the generations your Collie has NOT been bred to:
• Cope with noise..... Collies need to have very acute hearing to hear and interpret a shepherd's signals at a great distance, but sheep farms are generally quiet places and their sensitive hearing does not cause them problems. Urban and domestic life bombards our dogs with noise and this can cause them extreme stress. Be aware of this and if necessary protect your dog from excessive noise. Speak quietly to your Collie, he doesn't need you to shout at him.
• Cope with change..... sheep farms tend to be relatively unchanging places, there are sheep, the shepherd and his family, the barn where the dog sleeps and an odd tractor or car. Sheep dogs don’t generally need to cope with change. Every time our urban collie leaves home the street outside will probably have changed (new vehicles, new people, rubbish skips etc.). Just going out for a walk, even if the dog looks forward to his walk, can generate stress and we need to be aware of this and help him cope.
• Cope with the presence of strangers/visitors or groups of people…. Sheep farms tend to be isolated places. It is not necessary to be at ease with people to be a good working sheep dog. In a pet home our dogs are surrounded by many strange people in the street and visitors to the home. If you get your Collie as a puppy make sure he is sensitively socialised to people at an early age. If he is older respect the fact that he may find meeting strange people stressful.
• Cope with the presence of strange dogs......... apart from the familiar dogs with similar characteristics that live on the farm with them, working sheepdogs are unlikely to need to mix with other dogs. As pet owners we expect them to meet a lot of strange dogs, many with appalling “dog manners”, and often with our dog on a lead so that it does not have the option of running away. Even if your collie does not react aggressively in these situations he could well be very stressed.
Many sheepdogs will never leave their farms so traditionally they haven't really needed to get on with other dogs or unfamiliar people. Sociability and resilience are not characteristics that have historically been important in the development of the Border Collie. Although your dog may not be directly from working stock he will still have many of the characteristics inherited from generations of working sheep dogs and equally he may not have inherited those characteristics that would make life in a pet home easier for him.
Shepherds are the experts with Border Collies and we can learn a lot from them. Yes, we've all heard of harsh and callous shepherds, but many value their dogs very highly, not just as working dogs, but also as members of their family. Watch a sheepdog working, it is referring back to the shepherd for guidance all the time. His impulses to chase and control movement are under very tight control. The shepherd is guiding the dog and the dog is exhibiting self-control. Ideally this is how we want our collie to be with us. If he is checking in with us to find out what do next not only is he under control and less likely to get himself into trouble, but he is also getting reassurance from us. He doesn't have to worry; we will tell him what to do in any situation. Encourage your dog to look to you for guidance; it shouldn't be too hard, it's in his genesl
Watch the shepherd to, he has to keep very calm and guide his dog at all times. You just don't see excitable shepherds, an excitable shepherd would mean an excited dog and scattered sheep! Be a calm owner. Think about this if you are considering Agility or Flyball with your Collie, a good working sheep dog is fast and has lightning reflexes, but is not in a state of over-excitement. Teach your dog calmly what you want him to do. If he understands and is enjoying what he is doing he will do his best; after all he has been bred from generations of dogs selected for their willingness to work as a team with their handler. There is no need for your dog to be roused to a hysterical state for it to perform well, and it is bad for its mental and physical health to be in such a state. If your dog shows signs of stress or gets over-excited ask yourself is this is really the best activity for him.
A final thought... when a working sheepdog is not working alongside the shepherd he is shut away in a quiet, non-stimulating place to rest and recover and to keep him out of mischief! Importantly, adrenalin levels that have probably been quite high while he is working now have a chance to return to normal. Your sensitive, alert pet Collie is being bombarded with information from his environment all the time; make sure he has plenty of opportunity to rest in a secure, non-stimulating place where he can relax.
Think Border Collies, think working sheepdogs.....maximise their strengths,
understand and respect their weaknesses.

Sorry.. The above was originally taken from here
https://www.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk/rehoming/the-border-collie
I should have just posted the link.

Thanks for that, a great read.

The kennel just got back to me, they could take her next week.

Decision time! One minute I’m for keeping her and soldiering on, but there’s always the kids’ safety in the back of my mind

The time over Xmas when she went crazy at me/my daughter was genuinely scary! I was shaking for the rest of the walk!?

@jonjones262 we're on our 3rd collie type crossbreed, he's a Romanian German shepherd/collie. He's a lovely dog but he has similar issues as yours but to a lesser degree. He's fine off the lead with dogs that we have got to know, but when he meets a strange dog he goes absolutely nuts. The thing that I've done to stop him are making him sit before we get within 'attack range' and speaking to him calmly, also distracting him with treats. If that doesn't work and he still goes off on one I squirt him with water (he hates water), although this is the nuclear option and I use it sparingly. Sometimes it's enough for me to just say 'bottle?' to him to stop him.
They are clever dogs and need stimulation, have you thought of agility classes, Henry used to love these?

One of the dogs I had a few years ago used to bite the front wheel of my bike in excitement when we'd go into the country park, more than once we had to go back home as he'd puncture the tyre. I used the water bottle to stop that as well.

The nicest dog I ever had was a staff/lab cross, she had a beautiful nature and was really gentle.

If you have to get rid of the dog don't feel bad (you will!), it just may not be the right dog for your family. They come first and if it's upsetting everyone it'll have to go, especially if you're scared it may bite the kids. Just resolve the guilt by getting a more family friendly dog (Staffie?).

If you really are that worried about the kids' safety then it's a no brainer for me, take her back to the kennel. It's a real shame and you will feel terrible no doubt but, and this is coming from an animal lover who has two spaniels and cried at the "lost my best mate" thread last week, a dog is a dog and no dog is worth risking the safety of your children.

I'd like to think that in your shoes I would keep the dog and figure it out, but you're the only one who can really determine what's best.

Do you all agree that she’s got to go? (Before one of the kids gets their face bitten off!)

Yep - i'd be getting rid.. you'll never forgive yourself if it takes a chunk out of your kids.

I feel for you, I really do. So sad. 😞 It's such hard work raising rescues as you really don't know what your taking on. I've got 2, one from the UK, and one from Bosnia. First one we've had over 4 years now (from a family bereavement) and our other since last September rescued from the streets. Both have different personalities and have tested our patience no end. Our Bosnian dog Mags was p1ssing everywhere to begin with and chewing. Out walking she would bark at other dogs when on the lead. Shackles up but tail always wagging on a non aggressive manner. She's getting much better now, but the looks we get from dog owners when she barks at theirs really used to get to me, as I felt they don't know her, and if they knew the sh1t she went through they wouldn't be so judgemental. She's suffered from tons of anxiety and abandonment. We've just got her sorted recently where we feel we've turned a corner and she's starting to calm down. Anyhow I guess I'm trying to say is only you know what to do, and I'm sure you've given her the absolute best you can offer. Its heartbreaking to see dogs lost in the rescue system or worst, put to sleep. I hope you all get through it with a happy ending and she gives you years of pleasure with love in spades. Dogs are such incredible beautiful creatures. 🙂

Can you give the kids away and keep the dog instead?

Quick update:

I spoke to the Kennels last friday and we've agreed she's going back in the morning. Funnily enough, she's been good as gold tonight, the walk was fine and chilled out on the sofa asleep all evening.

To counter that, she bit my Wife again yesterday.

It's sad, but it's the correct decision. 🙁

Will be fun packing the kids off to school in the morning...

You gave it a go but it would have taken time to adjust the dog and the danger to the children would have been there all that time.

I can recommend a standard Dalmatian from their breed rescue. Bred to look good, eats like a labrador brain of a goldfish! My daughter refers to ours as a Himbo. 😆

What were you expecting, a warranty return? Hard to see how it’s their problem.

It doesn't seem an unreasonable place to go either for advice or if it needs rehomed - with them being an organisation that specialises in rehoming this type of dog!

Will be fun packing the kids off to school in the morning…

I assume you've had a discussion with them explaining the dog is going away - or is this going to be a threat, Kids if you don't behave I'll just get rid of you too?

She's gone. Taking her to the Kennel was pretty traumatic!

At least she didn't poo all over the back seat, like last time we took her in a car!?

Everyone is upset but the atmosphere in the house seemed a lot better tonight.

The cat has even ventured downstairs! 🙂

It was for the best mate...no way would I put up with it....if you want a funny cheeky dog next...get a shih tzu...loyal loving and won't listen to a single command and so fluffy

Sad to hear you have taken the hard decision. Hope its best for all concerned.

Prompted by some of the suggestions on this thread we had a games night with our two dogs. Its not as though they are bored. They get 4 walks per day, picked up and played with every 5 mins and they are happy contented lads. Anyhow we played hide and seek with them for ages with their favorite toys. Absolutely amazing how happy and alert they were. Our Schnoodle was acting like a trained sniffer dog. Definitely a fun few hours.

Random info - theres a public park in Kirkham Lancs that has a good dog agility course in it (ramps, tunnels, jumps, posts etc). Was in the area over the weekend and called in with our Karelian Bear Dog. He did everything apart form the tunnel as he was a bit big. Was zonked for the rest of the day with the physical and mental requirements of it.