You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Long time paid up member using 2nd login.
I'm getting the impression work wants me to leave of my own accord rather than payout statutory redundancy, but at what point does that become constructive dismissal. I work from home & assume they can't sack me for not doing any work if they haven't given me any.
Any experiences?
Depending on how long you’ve been there statutory redundancy is likely to be piss all in the scheme of things
As I'm here before TJ, is there a union?
Constructive dismissal is very hard to prove. Make sure you have copies of any interactions where you request things to do/offering to help others to show you are making an effort.
Polish your CV etc in any free time.
Outside of gross misconduct they can't sack you for not doing any work unless either a) you've been there under two years or b) you're American. What they can do is start their disciplinary process, so warnings in various forms.
If you think a witch hunt may be about to take place, document everything. They're not giving you any work, have you asked for it? Write it down. Is there self-paced training you can be doing whilst idle? Note that also. Other lines of work may be different but for me there's always something productive I can be doing even if it's just reading a manual or watching training videos on YouTube.
Compromise agreement is usually the way forward. My wife has just been made redundant, whilst off sick with work related mental health issues - only been off 8 weeks, they decided to divvy up her work, then told her they had restructured and she was redundant (the only person).
Totally stinks as she's been shunned after she made a complaint about a male colleague making inappropriate advances (he has history), and work dealt with it badly. She'd been working long hours and stepped up after two senior people left on the promise of some pay recognition. After nearly a year they said you aren't getting any more.
She's been given statutory plus two weeks. Given all the issues, a grievance has been raised, that they now have to address - she'll get a better compromise agreement out of them.
So long as you are doing all you can, then get polishing that CV and get it out there.
Why do you have to prove you've been asking for lots of work? If you are contracted to 'do a job' and the work for that job dries up, then its redundancy isn't it? The problem with asking for work is your likely to end up with any old crap thats been sitting around, and not necessarily what you are employed / want to do. You get the crap no one else wants to do, generally because its a hospital pass.
That way lies a slipperly slope of demotion / suddenly being told they will pay you less as your responsibilities are less than they were
Union for me weren't very useful.
Thanks - sort of suspected it might be tricky.
No recognised union, did look into it a while back but there wasn't really a union that covered my line of work.
Statutory redundancy would be not far off the £19k ceiling (25+ yrs of employment) & in a good place financially so would be okay to reach a compromise, just don't want to walk because they don't want to do the decent thing.
Work is based at home but visiting various sites is involved, so can't really conjure work out of thin air, always advise when I'm short of work & volunteered to go down to 4 days a week & 20% pay cut 18 months ago after taking various amounts of unpaid leave due to lack of work.
Wife is sporn of the devil recruitment worker, so CV not a problem.
It the duty of the employer to provide work for your contractual hours. If they can't - they have several options - lay off (effectively short time) or redundancy (statutory as a minimum plus your notice though they might make you work that). In both these case they have to consult with you (that doesn't mean agree) Constructive dismissal is you resigning and trying to prove the employment contract is broken - its difficult to do - don't do this. Sit tight - the obligation is on the employer to provide the work. If they suggest a "without predjudice conversation" that opens the door to a settlement (compromise) agreement - its worth doing just to see what they put on the table. Good luck.
No work you say.
Spring is coming.
Sounds like you may as well ride your bike every day until they make you redundant.
Bollocks to asking them for work to do.
If they suggest a “without predjudice conversation” that opens the door to a settlement (compromise) agreement
After over 15 years service I was offered £3k (plus what they legally owed me) to go away quietly. After a couple or rounds of "you're taking the piss" that was increased to a final offer of £10k tax free (again, plus what they legally had to pay me). I drew a line under it just before Christmas and walked away with £18k in my back pocket and a spring in my step, I could probably have pressed for more because they were almost certainly in breach of contract but I wanted it over and done with so that I could enjoy the holiday with family.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/any-employment-lawyers-in-the-house
as has been said before, constructive dismissal is really hard - basically saying that your worklife has been made so intolerably bad that you had to resign. Not even 'think that resigning is my best / only option' - literally walked out because you can't take it any more.
It might say in your contract that 'whatever you've been employed to do you may be required to undertake other duties consistent with your role and seniority' or words to that effect, so they can't easily make a sales director clean the loos, etc., even on full pay. But that's taking to extremes; doing something that's boring and/or a bit below your pay grade isn't the same thing. Reality of contract is that it probably doesn't say they even have to provide you work to do, even less that it's interesting work.
Of course under normal circumstances you want your employees to be happy and motivated and that means the right amount of the right type of work or you'll leave, but in the real world 'managing someone out' is neither illegal not that uncommon, and IME of both sides is usually a signal that a compromise agreement might be available if you were to approach it properly. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it can help to avoid the hassles of redundancy, where you may need to do consulting and potentially end up losing the wrong people, etc.
Track down an employment specialist lawyer with a free half hour initial consultation.
After doing that I had a much better idea of the likely route the company would take and a firm plan of how to react at each stage. In short my lawyer gave me a 7 point outline of what would happen and the eventual outcome which was almost 100% accurate.
EDIT - I thought I had a constructive dismissal case, but my lawyer said I had a case, but not a constructive dismissal case. ACAS agreed with her.
In the past i've always pushed for an open and frank chat about the situation - depends if your manager is up to it or not though.
No recognised union, did look into it a while back but there wasn’t really a union that covered my line of work.
There may not be a recognised union at the workplace (for collective negotiations) but there will be a union you can join as a free floater. GMB, Unison...
Just keep an eye on your own stress levels too, it can creep up on you in these sitautions and have physical side effects too.
Might be better to start looking for something else.
MY usual advice here is document everything, keep yourself squeaky clean, wait for them to muck up the process ( as is the norm), threaten tribunal, accept compromise agreement, walk away with a pile of cash
Nearly 20 years ago I was "managed out" of a job. Between me as an ex shop steward and MrsTJ who was a legal representative doing tribunals we tore them to pieces. I was entitled to one months notice and £400 redundancy. I ended up with 7 months garden leave and £7000
Place i used to work used to starve people of work so they got bored and left. They were v patient, what they didnt realise was all the staff worked it out so had loads of side hussles. A few employees didn't get it so got stressed out.
I lasted about a year but had so much going on of my own business, fully paid by employer, i was loving it.
This was a ftse100 company, another ploy to save cash, rather than pay someone off who s say 5 years to retirement, just give them a non job, it's cheaper than paying them off.
I work from home & assume they can’t sack me for not doing any work if they haven’t given me any.
Hmm. Do you have documented responsibilities? Mine are pretty broad and I'm expected to generate the work to achieve them.
Do you have documented responsibilities? Mine are pretty broad and I’m expected to generate the work to achieve them
No, all down to others to generate the work, I'm paid to coordinate with client once an order has been placed, carry out site surveys, drawings, manufacturing lists & RAMS then pass it back to factory to be manufactured & installed on site - only occasionally get involved with pre order work if regular client or sales team request it.
Side hustle might be an idea, not sure what my skill set would be though.
First step - join a union
I would contact your supervisor stating you do not have enough work and asking for them to generate some for you / suggest other tasks you can take on. YO(u can also suggesat some tasks you can do. do it once to have the paper trail
Avoid discussions over the phone as there is no paper trail. If you do have a phone discussion over this then follow it up with an email "re our conversation on the phone today, my understanding is we discussed /' agreed x, y and z. Is this correct?"
https://www.acas.org.uk/contact
You could ring ACAS for some impartial advice and they may be useful? Cannot speak personally to the value of their helpline but we've had trainers from ACAS onsite and they've been very helpful.
They can advise on process but can't really advise on specifics, strength of case, etc., IME
When I was being messed around as a prelude to me asking for and getting a Settlement Agreement they told me absolutely what steps to follow and what the law said, guidance and templates, etc. But refused to go into whether my situation constituted constructive dismissal, told me I needed a lawyer to advise me on that.
Totally stinks as she’s been shunned after she made a complaint about a male colleague making inappropriate advances (he has history), and work dealt with it badly.
Very similar to what happened to me. Wasn't inappropriate sexual behaviour but I made a complaint about my manager and his behaviour. A demonstrable track record of bullying and intimidation. Told me to sack someone that had attempted suicide.
I made a formal complaint to his manager. My fatal flaw was not going to HR. I was told I just had to get on with him.
A few months later I was called into a meeting with him and HR and told my position was being made redundant and they chucked an obscene amount of cash at me to go away quietly.
About 6 months ago someone from the company approached me about going back. He the. had some discussions with the senior leaders and was told I would never be allowed to come back because I'd spoken out about my boss despite the fact I was right. That was simply viewed as not being acceptable