[Closed] Recruitment consultants ringing up the workplace

No they don't, their morally superior cousins the letting agents look down in them

It's all fair game.....

's the free market economy, innit?

that's crazy.

Can you get their calls blocked?

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

This.

what they ^ said.

They've probably got a whiff of something not being right at your company if they've started to poach.

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

Edit, I quite like recruiters call up my team, it means I'm employing good people, I also like that they tend to stay in their current role. 😉

do you have a switchboard/ operator who can filter out their calls?
with tools like LinkedIn however, they can appear to not be Recruitment Consultants (what do they actually consult on anyway?) by asking for people by name.

if you are paying them a decent market rate and treat them well what are you worried about?

I'm on contract in germany at the moment but two agencies have phoned this morning asking if I would leave this job and go somewhere else for an extra 6 months and £% an hour, NO I'm happy here thanks.

Cut copied and pasted from Contractor UK

Recruitment agents are habitual liars

They don't lie when it is essential, they don't lie when they think it is necessary, they don't lie occasionally, sometimes or frequently. They are so accustomed to lying they do it all the time.

For example, here is a call I had yesterday afternoon. Warning signs and tips are in red.

1. I have had a call from Jimmy Mumble from Mumblymumble Resourcing. If he had had a real role he would have stated his name clearly and quite possibly not his agency name (they really are that egocentric). This test works >90% of the time.

2. He then did NOT say "Is this a convenient time to talk?". They ask this when they have something worth talking about, when phishing they do not care about you as a person and do not ask the question. This test works >80% of the time.

3. Scum: "I've got your CV from AnyOldWhere. You used to work at PreviousClientCo, yes?"

Me: "Yes."

Beware. When told they found you, you are likely to feel head-hunted and flattered. They might not want you, but your knowledge.

4. Scum: "They have a number of roles I am trying to fill and I have seen you have worked there before."

A number of roles means "none, but I'm trying to get a foot in the door". Agents rarely are trying to fill a random selection of different kinds of role. When they are - and it is rare - then they will be loooking to build "an Oracle development team" or "a new in-house testing team" and not "a number of roles". This test works >80% of the time.

5. Scum: "What kind of work did you do at PreviousClientCo?". He has my CV in front of him, FFS, he found me. Is he getting clarification? No, he has not read my CV, he got it from a keyword search on the employer's name and now he is trying to find out what I can tell him about PreviousClientCo. This test works >50% of the time.

6. Me: "I was a Junior Widget Wangler providing fundament cleaning services to Yes Men."

Scum: "So, who were you working with there?" There it is. That's the primary purpose of the call: to get a contact name from you so they can start hassling your old boss, the friendly referee and making that referee hate you in the process. This test is valid > 99% of the time.

In 15 years I have twice had an agent say this question legitimately:
"Who were you working with there, because I placed Fred Bloggs in the manager role, he bought me a bottle of Scotch for placing him, what's he doing now?"
and
"Who were you working with there, because I dealt with a Melanie Frontage and I'd love to know how to get to see her again."
That is two calls out of an estimated 2000 (Ed: and the rest!) discussions with agents.

---> If the agent wants names, there is no point continuing the call. <---

7. Me: "Did you say you were recruiting for them?"

Scum: "Yes."

Now I know he was lying because it was a government site that only uses Catalist for its recruitment and Mumblymumble Recruitment didn't sound like one of those agents.

When at ClientCo, always try to find out who is on their Preferred Supplier List. It often comes in useful later.

8. Me: "There has been a shuffle round since I was working there, it is different managers doing the recruitment now."

Scum: "But can't you give me some names?"

Me: "I could, I know the recruiting managers and the directors plus the decision makers and key business managers, obviously. But as I say, they've had a shuffle round."

Scum: (now wetting himself) "So, who did you work with and what are they doing now?"

Me: "I'm not sure that will help, many have now been promoted to more senior positions or moved sideways, they are doing different things."

Scum: (who has run out of ideas) "So can you tell me who is doing the recruitment?"

Make them squirm. Practise your negotiation skills. They've wasted your time by lying to you, have some fun.

Me: "The people you are already dealing with, of course."

Scum: "Err, oh, of course."

<silence>

<you hear a Ping! as Jimmy Scum remembers his training>

9. Scum: "Can you give me the names, just to make sure they are the same people?"

Use their own silly lies on them. Then they understand what is going on as it is the only language they know.

Me: "Sorry, I can't do that. Data Protection."

10. <click> He realised he was going to get no information from me so he hung up on me.

There was no "number of roles", he was lying. He was using me to get information. Rather than simply tell me the truth he lied. Had he asked me how to get onto their PSL, I would have told him all about Catalist.

Find a way to cope with these liars so you can sleep at night.

11. When you have found that way of coping, please post it on here for my benefit. Thanks.

But I am paying them to work for me and I don't expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

... and this sentence is maybe why they are taking the calls.

and this sentence is maybe why they are taking the calls.

All my employees could quite easily, at a drop of a hat, get a different job should they so wish as we are in a *very* competitive industry - not one of them needs to be cold-called to get a job, they could get one by themselves very, very easily.

Edit - and for what it is worth, I told the employee (that was asked for on the call) what had happened and told him the name of the agency too – if he is interested he can call them back in his own time...

But I am paying them to work for me and I don't expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Then you should politely ask your staff not to. It's not the consultants fault that your staff aren't doing what they're paid for. If I'm approached at work, I ask them to phone back during my lunch break or after work. They are all happy to do so.

But I am paying them to work for me and I don't expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Your attitude sucks! Do you monitor their toilet breaks as well?

Have you considered that its actually your employees or their friends, ringing in, pretending to be from recruitment, to get you to consider them in a different light?

#meta

We once had an agency call our boss pretending to be the IT Director, asking him to fax his employees' mobile numbers to him urgently. And he did. When we all complained about the annoying calls we then received he said "I didn't think it sounded like him..." Doh!

One rang me on my direct dial yesterday, I said the standard "sorry I'm a bit busy and then put the phone down"... he then called straight back, as in 5 seconds later, and said "did you mean to put the phone down?"?! 😕 😡

Your attitude sucks! Do you monitor their toilet breaks as well?

because this is STW and it's full of contrary marys.

I've known own plenty of contractors who would move for 50p/hr it's shitty but shotgun sales. Ask the dick to come in and discuss your upcoming recruitment campaign for 3hrs...

because this is STW and it's full of contrary marys.

Why does my attitude suck?

Worrying about what they're doing every minute and whether it's what you pay them for is pretty stupid. I'm guessing you don't just pay them to look busy and there is some measurable output that you pay them for?

If so, all that matters is whether they achieve that or not. If they spend half the day browsing STW and still manage do the work, then it isn't a problem. If they slog away for 8 solid hours without so much as a pause for thought, but still don't produce the goods, [b]then[/b] you have a problem which is worth worrying about.

Worrying about what they're doing every minute

But I am not worrying about what they are doing

But I am paying them to work for me and I don't expect them to be spending time talking to a recruitment consultant in working hours.

Do make your mind up...

I didn't think it was that hard a concept to grasp.

I'd work on getting a clear message across right first time - it's taken all these posts for everyone to understand that (1) you're taking the calls, not your employees and (2) your employees aren't using the time you're paying them for to receive calls from recruitment agencies. Because you're taking the calls.

Are you the receptionist?

I blame Hora.

Genuine questions (from someone who does work in recruitment), why do people feel so averse to giving names out in the scenario philxx1975 mentions up there? I ask as if someone calls my team and wants my name (or calls me and wants my MD's name) I give it to them, no skin off my nose, then me/my boss can work out how to deal with the call.

Also, direct approaches (head-hunting if you will) are part and parcel of recruitment. The OP said he works in a competitive industry, if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from? A CV from jobsite of a guy who's not working (not working when the market is good? So are they any good then?) or a guy doing great things at your closest competitor? I know who I would want.

Genuine questions (from someone who does work in recruitment), why do people feel so averse to giving names out in the scenario philxx1975 mentions up there? I ask as if someone calls my team and wants my name (or calls me and wants my MD's name) I give it to them, no skin off my nose, then me/my boss can work out how to deal with the call.

Also, direct approaches (head-hunting if you will) are part and parcel of recruitment. The OP said he works in a competitive industry, if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from? A CV from jobsite of a guy who's not working (not working when the market is good? So are they any good then?) or a guy doing great things at your closest competitor? I know who I would want.

^ This 🙂

if he was hiring where would he want his next person to come from

In reality we work lots with the higher ed sector (free teaching, placements, even run a free three day workshop every year to teach industry standards (ie, the stuff they don't get taught at Uni) and usually recruit from those contacts.

Kicks off about staff getting calls in work time (I'm struggling to think of a time outside of work hours when I've been called by an agency) by posting it on STW.

Does not compute.

Never, EVER from a recruiters, that's where.

Or you can get the people who apply for your jobs and/or are "actively in the market"...

Kicks off about staff getting calls in work time (I'm struggling to think of a time outside of work hours when I've been called by an agency) by posting it on STW.

Does not compute.

Why's that? They can access people at your competitors that you can't,

And I find it especially amusing when we feature a job on your website that clearly says 'No recruitment agencies' that we get them ringing up. If they can't follow *that* simple request, why on earth do they think they can listen to our particular requirements?

And again, being in a competitive industry, any potential employee using an agency is clearly not of the calibre required because if they were they would be employed anyway.

johndoh - Member
And I find it especially amusing when we feature a job on your website that clearly says 'No recruitment agencies' that we get them ringing up. If they can't follow *that* simple request, why on earth do they think they can listen to our particular requirements?

Presumably because if they don't call they definitely won't make the connection, whereas if they do they probably still won't, but... nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

And again, being in a competitive industry, any potential employee using an agency is clearly not of the calibre required because if they were they would be employed anyway.

In 11 years of being an employer, every time we have tried a recruiters in the past has been a waste of our time so we don't do it any more

Free market IMO, free game IMO.

Bit crass to expect them Not to try and contact your employees, clearly they're (your employees) good and their skills are in need.

We have massive throughflow here, very competitive, rates go up and people move on.

Part of the modern game init.

And again, being in a competitive industry, any potential employee using an agency is clearly not of the calibre required because if they were they would be employed anyway.

I agree with everything you posted on this thread up to this, which is mental.

johndoh, but what about the people who aren't looking? You know, the ones working for your nearest competitor who are doing really well and have no interest in leaving? The ones you know nothing about as they're not contacting you and are just quietly being really good somewhere else. Those are the ones you want and they won't apply to you direct, they need to be coaxed out be a good consultant.

Again, let me tell you about how I will find the very best people who aren't applying and aren't even looking...Did I mention I was a specialist in...

You know, the ones working for your nearest competitor who are doing really well and have no interest in leaving?

We work in the web industry so if someone doesn't use Twitter then, again, they wouldn't be the right sort of person for us.

they need to be coaxed out

And I wouldn't employ the use of a recruiter if they cold-called people – I simply do not agree with that approach.

OP - are you the sole owner of your company, or are you an employee yourself?

johndoh, fair enough, I don't agree with you but I can see your point and understand your reluctance.

My take on it, both as a recruiter and an employer, is that when I'm hiring I want the best people to work for me and generally those people aren't looking and are not aware of who's hiring as, well, why would they? To get those people I need to talk to people at work as that's the only number I have for them, I could e-mail them but then they're not looking so why would they reply to me? If they're not interested I thank them for their time, ask if they can recommend anyone else and bid them good day, easy, inoffensive and everyone's happy.

But hey, different perspectives, different views, none more right or wrong than the other.

I am a partner in a small business employing a further 6 people, currently having recruiters employed by a certain multi-national TV/Broadband/Phone supply company that has relocated to our region attempting to bleed us (and every other agency in the area) dry of employees.

Do the other partners know you spend so long posting on STW during work hours?*

*maybe you are on holiday

😉

Does it really matter how I arrange my working day?

if you can't see the irony in spending your working day on a mountain bike forum bitching about how your employees spend their working day speaking to recruitment consultants, then fair enough..

Wow - Everyone in industry X is scum, I know this from a small representative sample and anecdotal evidence.

I appreciate your concern for your business but it is just that, business, and that's how business works. If your people can go elsewhere and have a reason to I'm afraid they will.

bitching about how your employees spend their working day speaking to recruitment consultants

That is not the point. The point is that I don't want consultants ringing me up asking to speak to my employees just so they can try to poach them. I wouldn't be annoyed at an employee for wasting time talking to one should they get through to them, I would (rightfully) be annoyed at the consultant for using what I consider to be really underhand tactics in the first place.

In fact we are really very fair with them regarding use of phones, internet etc. We also allow them to have doctors apts, options apts, driving lessons etc etc etc on company time and they work a 4.5 day week, having every Friday afternoon to work on their own stuff.

It's the recruiters I cannot abide.

Blimey....the poor bloke starts a thread to let off some legitimate steam and he gets a flame thrower pointed at him! I too hate Recruitment Consultants, as when I had the misfortune of looking for a job in the 80's I responded to some of their advertised jobs, which I later discovered were simply bait to get people through the door.

However....

[i]And I wouldn't employ the use of a recruiter if they cold-called people – I simply do not agree with that approach.[/i]

Regardless of what business you're in, its sometimes difficult to sell your business if you don't cold call. You don't have to be an arse about it.

I can see the OPs point, on a similar note I don't care if people in my team occasionally browse non-work-related websites (I'd be a hypocrite if I did :p ) but I'd probably have words if it was a job search site, that's just taking the piss IMO. I don't care about personal phone calls at work either but again I'd consider it taking the piss if I heard someone negotiating t&c's of a new job whilst at work. And I'm just a lowly manager in a global company, not a partner in a small business like the OP, he has much more invested in keeping his team together.

That said I don't hate recruitment agencies either, yes their behaviour can be annoying and I've not had the best experience with them when trying to fill positions but they have their uses and there are some good ones out there.

its sometimes difficult to sell your business if you don't cold call.

they are calling wanting to speak to my staff during a working day

Do recruiters not work Monday to Friday 9-530? When do you think they should call, evenings and weekends? Do they know where people are going to be, and how to contact them, outside of business hours?

I don't care how they do it, they shouldn't use my business time for their own gain.

You seem to have made it abundantly clear you're not going to be a client of theirs so why would they care about pissing you off?

In my experience on both sides of the fence, and as a candidate, people tend to get the recruitment consultants they deserve. Assume they're all scum, act like that and the good ones won't go near you.

Please can someone give my details to a recruitment agency? Same job, I just want one meeeeelion quid salary.

😉

And jondoh - I agree, it is a step beyond reasonable to call then at work.

I get recruiters calling me on my work landline and it really hacks me off. Not sure why, but it's probably got a lot to do with the lying they do to get put through to me.

I also get recruiters pretending to be people they're not. I had a girl from the "HSE" asking for the email addresses of all the engineers in my office so she could send through an update on legislation. I politely declined and asked her to send it through to me and I would distribute it. She said that she needed the emails for her records but I still wouldn't give her the addresses. When pressed she couldn't te me what it was about or even the title of the update. More than a month later and she is still yet to email me......

Johndoh, there is a very easy way to stop the calls, engage the agency as a client. Tell them you want to use them to hire you someone and make it a condition of the assignment that they leave your staff alone. This method only works if you do hire though, if you don't they'll be back with more vigour!

And a big shout to the guy who had a bad experience with a recruiter in the 80's and still hate them to this day, that is a serious grudge right there.

Just got to thinking – the next time I need some staff, I will just ring up the recruitment consultants and ask them to put me through directly to people on their books...

😆

It has to be worth a giggle. Record the call for us....