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Most importantly, don’t sell it when it drops. That’s just baking in the loss. Equities are volatile, funds that return 10%/yr don’t do it every year, it’s an average.
Work out a sensible strategy and stick with it.
@ juanking have a look at VHVG , just developed world but approx half the fees of VWRP.
If you CanBA with rebalancing when you buy more, you could do a 90%/10% split between VHVG and VFEG to simulate the same profile as VWRP, but still lower ongoing costs which will all compound up in your favour over the years.
All available on Invest Engine.
I dont use InvestEngine but I'm sure it does similar to T212, which will rebalance with the click of a button.
Just for Background, VWRP is the fully global fund that Vanguard provide, including Emerging markets. it is a fund of lots of Vanguard tracker funds, in a certain percentage.
It is possible to "Create" your own VWRP with lesser fees by just buying the different individual vanguard funds in the right percentage. Vanguard charge a premium for doing that for you.
It is possible to “Create” your own VWRP with lesser fees by just buying the different individual vanguard funds in the right percentage.
Do you have any more details on how to do that please?
Look on Vanguard website for the VWRP factsheet. It will tell you what funds it holds within it. Buy Those.
Edit: trying to find it for you.
This is the breakdown of my lifestyle 100 fund. I might be wrong on VWRP as I cant find similar for that.
I think the life strategy type funds are a weighted average from individual funds like ABCD, VWXY
the individual funds are a collection of weighted investments in real companies e.g. Google
Well said. Despite the assertions from various people in the thread, I am not convinced that you do actually own the shares. Funnily enough, the OP of this thread also opened a thread dedicated to that very question. 😉 And I think it was the answer to that thread ( in the negative) that prompted him to open this thread to ask where to start moving his savings above £85k into
I am well aware of the differences between nominee (i.e. legal) and beneficial ownership. If I place a buy order via Interactive Investor, they will buy shares on my behalf at a trading venue like the London Stock Exchange. Their company name will appear on the register, but I will have beneficial ownership which enables to be vote on company matters and entitles me to the profit/loss when the share are sold.
The point I was making is that Trading212 don't appear to be buying shares from the LSE when you place an order. This is actually how a CFD works. You are not trading on a public 'lit' exchange, you are giving the firm money and they are promising to pay the difference following any price changes. If they're not using a public exchange, then you are relying on them to provide the best price when you want to buy. If they offer the spread, but can justify the quality of their execution in other ways then that is potentially how they are able to get past the regulators. Whatever the case, there's a distinct lack of transparency and alarm bells are ringing.
Thanks to those who've replied. I do already hold direct shares from my employer (Equateplus) but this would be the first time going direct through a platform hence why going Vanguard is preferred route to make it easier. As you say the charges are less if I were to essentially create my own version of VWRP by blending VHVG and VFEG so I just need to work out how much the difference is annually going forward. I see the VHVG and VFEG are roughly half the VWRP charges at .12 rather than .22, daft question, is that charges an annual fee of the whole fund regardless of performance?
So in essence the cost involved would be account fees @.15% and fund fees .22 (VWRP) and a small transaction cost if/when sold totaling .37% annual fee, correct? Thanks all.
So Jamz - are you saying that you believe that Trading 212 never actually purchase the shares that you have ‘invested’ in, just guarantee to hold the apparent value that you have invested? I can’t conceive this would be legal.
Without then making other investments of their own to match the growing portfolios of their clients this would be disastrous, and surely against FCA regulations? Also if they’re not actually buying the shares then fund values and unit prices would also be affected.
I had assumed that their internaliser or whatever it was was simply predicting the value of the shares that are to be purchased before the actual purchase is made.
Juanking - yes there is the 0.15% account fee and then a fund management fee for whichever fund you invest in.
I’d definitely consider using another platform that may have lower fees and give you access to other funds as well as Vanguard. There are plenty of other good performing global funds with low prices out there. For example I’ve an L&G global 100 index that has performed very well and has a 0.14% fee and a similar Fidelity one with 0.12% fee as well as Vanguard funds in my SIPP. Personally I like having a bit of variety as it insulates a little against a fund underperforming.
Jaunking you can avoid the .15% fee on vanguard's platform by using a different platform such as Investengine. You just pay the etf fee on each etf you hold, if you do 90%vhvg and 10% vfem (that percentage is of the amount you hold in each fund annually). so something like 0.14% for holding both funds.
FWIW like Andy above I hold 10% in SEMA , in ishares version of an emerging market etf. Just for fund provider diversification. Its also really cheap.
So Jamz – are you saying that you believe that Trading 212 never actually purchase the shares that you have ‘invested’ in, just guarantee to hold the apparent value that you have invested? I can’t conceive this would be legal.
The info is all there in the execution policy that I linked in my first post. This is quoted from point no.6:
'For the avoidance of doubt this Order Execution Policy provides that T212 may execute Client
Share and ETF transactions and will execute Client CFD contracts outside a regulated market
or MTF.'
And point no.7:
'When agreeing to our terms and conditions, you express your consent to us arranging for their Orders to be executed outside a Regulated Market, MTF or OTF.'
I can't claim to know how they are hedging their trades, probably against other clients, or against the clients of IBKR, who I believe they work with; but either way I would rather pay my money (3 or 4 quid per trade) and have my order placed on a public maket where there is more that one seller/buyer!
The shares are clearly being purchased. Here is the detail from Trading 212:
Do I own my shares?
Indeed, you are the beneficial owner of your shares. Although the registered owner may be Trading 212 or another intermediary entity, you retain the status of the beneficial owner.
Where are my shares held?
Your shares are held in a pooled account at Interactive Brokers, one of the largest brokers in the world. Pooled accounts are commonly known as omnibus accounts.
Not sure what you are imagining but the shares are clearly purchased and held in a named account. No different to any other trading platform as far as I can see.
I am not imagining anything, I am quoting directly from the T212 order execution policy where it is written in black and white that some (but clearly not all) of their trades and not being placed on the exchange.
This is all getting a bit tedious now so I won't say any more. The info is all there, I am simply pointing it out so that people can make an informed decision. Google 'trading 212 spread' if you want to read some other perspectives. You could also try opening two accounts side by side and then compare quotes and keep the best account. That's what I have done in the past, although not with T212.
It’s a valid point. It’s easy to get hung up on which fund is the very best, comparing UK and US and far east, etc, which platform to use. It’s makes it seem complicated and maybe puts people off. Buy something sensible, hold on to it, buy some more occasionally. A lot better than doing nothing.
This is my philosophy. You can't possibly make a correct decision because you can't have more knowledge than the next person.
FWIW I stuck mine in T212, because it was April the 4th, I could do it from my phone, and it pays interest on cash so was as good as a cash ISA until I got my head around how it worked.
I've no real idea of how they work compared to others, it's a very expensive way to look at some green and red numbers on a screen, and if enough of them stay green over the next 20 years I can retire.
Call it what you like Jamz but you appear to be the only person on the Internet suggesting that Trading 212 are not buying actual stocks on the open market when people buy them via their platform. Unless that’s not what you’re saying. I have no vested interest in whatever you’re inferring, I don’t use the platform myself.
Anyone got recommendations for non Vanguard funds in the Invest Engine platform?
I’ve only had mine running for about 9 months or but have gone with a combo of different ETFs based on recent and longer term performance.
Ishares S&P 500 and S&P 500 Information Technology have both done well as well as Ishares Physical Gold and Nasdaq 100, but these are obviously US based other than the Gold. Then I’ve gone with worldwide ones - Invesco MSCI World, HSBC MSCI World and L&G Global Equity. Took a slight punt on a bit in Japanese Equity (XTrackers Nikkei 225) which hasn’t done so well but is still up.
Last 12 months has been very favourable generally so good performance so far is probably too early to judge!
I think thatInvesco MSCI tracker is one of the cheapest global trackers out there, so often recommended.
Thanks
I've set up an InvestEngine ISA and will see how it performs
For a relative who is new to investing and cautious about risk, any ideas for a money market fund?
They are pretty decent at the moment with high interest rates, the Fed announcement yesterday will keep that going for a while yet.
Fund choice will be limited by platform. In my T212 ISA I use Lyxor Smart overnight return, CSH2. In my Work pension with Aviva I use the Blackrock Sterling Liquidity fund. Both yielding about 5.4% at the moment.
I would look for an accumulation fund so any interest gets automatically reinvested in the fund, and make sure it is a £ sterling fund rather than €/$ so you don’t pay ForEx fees.
Yeah I've got CSH2 as well , in Invest Engine.
Ref: buying Vanguard funds in T212 - the fees (0.15% or whatever it is) are deducted, it says so in the descriptions when you select the fund. I cant remember if it says when it's deducted, but it's not a free lunch.
Thisisnotaspoon are you confusing account fees and fund fees? All funds have an ongoing fee. What you save using an alternative platform is the account management fee. Looking at my II account the fees for Vanguard are 0.1 to 0.15% depending on the fund.
This is separate to the overall Vanguard account fee which is 0.15% of the total investment, capped at £375 per year. This bit is what you save using a different platform, although other platforms also have fees (eg II is £12.99 per month for a SIPP).
Ahh, fair enough. Yes I just looked and it says 0.09% on the FTSE100 fund over a year. There's something about "authorized persons" but I can't see a definition of that, and don't seem to have been charged so i presume I either qualify or 212 does as one and avoids the fees.
Vanguard is a funny one, in that it is both a platform, and a provider of funds. The platform fee is for managing the account. The fund fees are charged by the fund provider for running the fund.
My vanguard lifestyle 100 fund has a fund fee of 0.22%/yr. If I hold it on Csnguards platform, they will charge me another 0.15% for the privilege, so 0.37% in total.
T212 and InvestEngine don’t do that, so just the 0.22% total charge.
Apologies in advance for today's stupid question. I have a cash ISA which matured end of March which I forgot about(I know) and have a question on allowances. Am I correct thinking that if I want to move this matured cash ISA to another cash ISA with the same provider (Virgin) that would account for this new tax years allowance? Essentially I want to open a S&S ISA but am concerned I can either update the matured cash ISA or start a new S&S ISA. Thanks as always.
Thanks all. Yep worked it and managed to transfer it to a new ISA with the same provider using the transfer facility so will crack on and open the Vanguard S&S later. Thanks again.
any thoughts on why an investment Trust BRWM is now higher in share price than its NAV, it usually lags behind by 5%-10%
purely expectations that mining is going up, AngloAmerican takeover and some good earning reports ?
Usually takeover rumours. But that's a complete guess in this case.
nah its blackrock @thecaptain , so cant see them being taken out , maybe more consolidation predicted in the mining sector, which is driving up their stock/investments..
https://markets.ft.com/data/investment-trust/tearsheet/holdings?s=BRWM:LSE
As of this FY, you can now open more than 1 ISA as long as you don’t exceed the overall allowance for new money invested.
I've got a small amount in an InvestEngine ISA. I've been thinking about taking £5k out of premium bonds and putting it in there.
Anyone got a good way to split that up into 5 pieces? I'm looking for low fees and a diverse split globally outside UK. My previous Vanguard ISA has UK heavy life strategy mix
Any particular reason for five pieces? The point of of funds like vanguard is that they are already diversified.
I just want more control - so if it's not doing well in 6 months time I can chop and change pieces
Here is a good blog post on investment portfolios and sector allocations: https://monevator.com/investment-portfolio-examples/
But re-read the posts on this page and consider whether chopping and changing after six months is a good idea (hint: probably not).
so if it’s not doing well in 6 months time I can chop and change pieces
That's a really bad way to invest AIUI. Have a look at some James Shack videos on YouTube, he explains it pretty well.
I know but sometimes it's useful
For example if I check on the Asia Tech funds after 6-9 months and it's doing really badly then I can move it to S&P500 tracker
That’s a really bad way to invest AIUI. Have a look at some James Shack videos on YouTube, he explains it pretty well.
It depends how you do it, and it can be called momentum investing - but you need to adhere to a rigid strategy to do it - FundExpert used to do it but he's closed the subscription down as he is too busy with his private clients.
Funds that start to do well often tend to keep doing well for a period of time, but they set stop/loss triggers on the fund so if it dropped a certain amount it would be sold, and then a period waited before reviewing it or selecting a different fund.
It works but takes discipline to follow the strategy.
Buying and selling the S&P 500 based on whether it crosses the 10 month simple moving average price also has worked beter than just holding the S&P 500.
So back to my earlier question.........
My T212 is currently setup like that, it's split across about 10 different mostly Vanguard tracker funds around the world.
But as other have said, unless you can predict the falls as they happen then all you'll do is miss them bouncing back. If a fund loses 10% one year, it's more likely to gain 22% next year and keep that ~10% yearly growth than it is to lose another 10%. If something's cheaper than it's average then you should put money in, not take it out. Conversely if it grows 20% in a year, that might not be sustainable and the next year might be flat.
If you can spot those wobbles in advance (e.g. in retrospect India did a fairly predictable -/+4% wobble due to the election) it could be workable. But at 6-9 months you're probably looking at those losses already being baked in and it's more a case of buy more and wait for it to to turn around.
What I am doing at the moment on my T212 ISA is leaving the new cash uninvested to get the 5.2% interest on it, plus the 1% cashback. It’s a bit of a hedge on the uncertainty of stocks currently.