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I had the bright idea of getting a record player over the weekend, as I want to get back to listening to music properly again (like looking through a load of physical discs on shelf, picking an album and listening to the entire thing), and thought that vinyl might be the right medium, but I don't own any vinyl, or speakers... So I asked a friend's opinion, and as a fellow child of the 80's he suggested a decent CD player instead. I do still have CD's (sat gathering dust), they're cheap to buy and sound quality is apparently much better than mp3/digital files, plus it all seems less hassle than storing vinyl etc.
It won't be going in a big room (approx. 16-20m²), so I don't want huge volume/power, but decent quality would be nice. There are some alright looking units from Panasonic, JVC and the like for around £100, but are they likely to be any good?
Personal recommendation, in my office i have a second hand Denon-M41DAB, little all in one unit, with CD, DAB and bluetooth, coupled to some second hand Q-Acoustics 3030 speakers, and it has been ace, if in the future you want to add a turntable, then i have a Rega P1 playing through it, great sound for such a small unit really
I have quite a large record collection as well Spotify. I really don't get what CDs bring to the party these days. Other than the fact they are dirt cheap obviously.
My first system cost me £1000, which was CD, AMP and speakers back in 1997. For £100 you're probably not going to get a great system. Even second hand you will be struggling.
This is an example from What-HiFi https://www.whathifi.com/features/weve-built-a-great-value-cd-player-system-that-ticks-all-boxes-and-wont-break-the-bank
Have a look through here as I think this is probably about as cheap as you'll get something half decent sounding....
https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/hi-fi-separates/hi-fi-packages.html
Edit: in response to blackflag I think my Arcam CD player sounds much better than spotify. But I'll caveat that by saying spotify is running on the TV, via a toslink cable to a cheap Amazon DAC then RCA cables to my Arcam amp. So if I got a dedicated streamer it may be better. That being said Spotify don't yet offer "Hi-Def" audio so even with a top notch streamer your bitrate is going to be limited. But I think I'm risking delving into the realms of vinyl vs CD 🙂
At that price they are unlikely to let you detect whether the "sound quality is apparently much better than mp3/digital files". I've got one in my kitchen and it's not brilliant.
IMHO you need to be looking at something like a Denon DM41 with Wharfdale Diamond 9.0 speakers as an absolute minimum. That combination would currently cost you £300 at Richer Sounds and would sound pretty good for the money.
Record players are for people who like records. "Playing a record" is all about the ritual and experience, not the audio quality.
sound quality is apparently much better than mp3/digital files
This is mince. What do you suppose is on a CD if not a "digital file"? As soon as you move away from the analogue world the source is an irrelevance, 1s and 0s are 1s and 0s, you don't get a better quality of 1 on high end kit. (Yes to fellow hi-fi nerds, I know this is a huge oversimplification.)
It sounds to me like what you need here is an amp and speaker bundle from somewhere like Richer, and a premium Spotify account.
I got a CD player out a little while back to listen to some old CD's.
I realised it was a big faff and a waste of my time seeing as though I could stream nice quality sound instantly from my mobile phone without having to move or swap over silly disc things
This is mince. What do you suppose is on a CD if not a “digital file”?
Perhaps not entirely mince. There will be effects caused by whatever encoding mechanism was used, the bitrate of the file, and by the D-A converters. MP3s at 120kb/s, 192 or 320 all sound different and lossless formats sound different again. They are all 'digital files'.
CDs played through my Linn Classik/Linn Kans sound better than the same stuff streamed through that system from my phone - but some of that difference will be down to the bits of kit that get the data from my phone to the amp.
I have a Denon D-M41DAB with Q Acoustics 3020 bookshelf speakers and it sounds fantastic.
I'd look for a second hand Denon Mxx with some decent speakers
Disagree about all 1s and 0s sounding the same. I've a Ruark MR1 that sounds better when linked to an old Marantz CD player vs streaming spotify over bluetooth from my phone. Obviously connecting via phone is significantly less faff than digging out the CD from the cupboard
Another happy Denon RCD-M41DAB user here and despite also having a nice turntable & system for the living room, i quickly decided to just keep just the CDs when I inherited a mates cd & record collection.
Another happy Denon RCD-M41DAB user here
And here to. 🙂
If you want to listen to vinyl in future you'll need to buy a phono pre-amp as it doesn't have a phono stage. They can be had for as little as £25 for a Behringer one.
If you are near Matlock I've got a Marantz CD52 and some old Mission speakers cluttering up the office you can have (not posting!).
This is mince. What do you suppose is on a CD if not a “digital file”? As soon as you move away from the analogue world the source is an irrelevance, 1s and 0s are 1s and 0s, you don’t get a better quality of 1 on high end kit. (Yes to fellow hi-fi nerds, I know this is a huge oversimplification.)
Er it's not. It's all about bitrate and compression. Spotify delivers 128kbit/s (free) or 256kbit/s (premium). The format is compressed. CD can deliver a bit rate of 1,411kbit/s
If you play the long game charity shops sometimes have good hi-fi items at low prices. Dare I say it you could use a dvd player and look out for better items whilst you are picking up 25p CD's in the charity shops.
We love CD's in our house and on the sitting room system which isn't fancy they really sparkle compared to streaming music. We spend a lot of time away from home in the caravan so I have them ripped to an MP3 player as well so that we have a vast collection of music on the move. You can stream but it is either restrictive downloads or data hungry streaming for the time we have. Data usage is also bad for the environment 🙂 I say as I type and use data with inane twaddle.
My daughter loves picking up CD's in charity shops when we are away but my modern car does not have a CD player which is a real shame.
Cd's are Wav's which are stored on an optical disc. They will sound better than mp3s (which are a legacy of when storage was expensive). If you want a better sounding way of playing the wav files, store them on a ssd (maybe storing as flac if you wish) and get something which will play them off that. This also avoids the issues Cd players are prone to as they age.
Spotify is streamed ogg (which is similar to mp3). You can get streamed non-compressed music if you want to go streaming, but personally I like to actually own the music, as I'm old.
Finding music by browsing physical media is certainly much more pleasurable than searching hard disks however.
CDs played through my Linn Classik/Linn Kans sound better than the same stuff streamed through that system from my phone – but some of that difference will be down to the bits of kit that get the data from my phone to the amp.
Quite. There is a reason I said "source" and caveated it.
It’s all about bitrate and compression. Spotify delivers 128kbit/s (free) or 256kbit/s (premium). The format is compressed. CD can deliver a bit rate of 1,411kbit/s
True (and I should have been clearer). Point is though, that's nothing to do with the format. You could readily have a "digital file" which is lossless, there's nothing inherently magical about a CD.
You could readily have a “digital file” which is lossless, there’s nothing inherently magical about a CD.
Actually that's not true, the isolation of a CD player is very valuable from a hifi perspective. Listening over a network is major step backwards for sound quality. Still, at the three figure price point (no offence OP) it probably isn't worth worrying about.
At that price point I would be looking at the second hand market
I had Exodus in 3 formats. Vinyl, CD and premium spotify. the audible differences where there. Each in isolation sounded good ( all played via the same amp and speakers) Vinyl was a bit noisy in the background but a "warmer sound" CD was cleaner but felt "cold" - no huge differnce. spotify had a narrower stereo soundscape and sounded "flat" Obviously inferior.
I find the best listening is 1st CD (with a DAC), 2nd Amazon premium, 3rd Spotify
My bookshelf speakers sit on a rubber base then stands filled with play sand and oddly I found a noticeable change came from placing the stands on granite chopping boards (cheap from Dunelm).
Where are you based OP?
I'm getting rid of a full size kenwood 5.0 stacker system as probate clearence for my late grandmother, for a reasonable price...
It's basically brand new even though its probably 30+ years old, and has a wooden cabinate. I'll even throw in a bunch of classical music CDS.
It's a bit of a monster, size wise though, so probably not what you are after 😀
^ we all used to lust after something like that as teenagers, right?
Actually that’s not true, the isolation of a CD player is very valuable from a hifi perspective. Listening over a network is major step backwards for sound quality.
I'd say "can you explain?" on the first point and "bollocks" on the second.
^ we all used to lust after something like that as teenagers, right?
I'd give my left bollock for that, if I thought that the first object of my lust would allow it in the house.
I’d give my left bollock for that, if I thought that the first object of my lust would allow it in the house.
...me too - we'd need to see it powered-up though to check if it has enough flashing lights! 🙂
we all used to lust after something like that as teenagers, right?
I know, it's even got the graphic EQ/spectrum analyser deck.... pure decadence hahah!
I’d say “can you explain?” on the first point and “bollocks” on the second.
And I'd say that I have no desire to waste my time by engaging with someone as arrogant and small minded as yourself.
My point is there for consideration by others who might be interested. There's plenty to be learned by googling, and of course by using your ears.
I know, it’s even got the graphic EQ/spectrum analyser deck…. pure decadence hahah!
and a twin cassette deck! #hometapingiskillingmusic
CD player is very valuable from a hifi perspective. Listening over a network is major step backwards for sound quality.
It really isnt. You might get some latency over a network, but that means nothing when listening to music, only if you need the sound perfectly in time to some other thing like video or musical instrument, or game controller input.
The issue as mentioned, is music that is compressed or from a poor quality source.
For example a poor quality 128kbs mp3 I can tell over a 320kbps recording.... assuming the source is of sufficient uncompressed quality in the first place.
I cannot tell the difference, other than subjectivley, between a 320kbps mp3 and a lossless FLAC, or CD format*
*Assuming the source is high quality and well produced.
An excellent example would be a CD of 'the planets' by Gustav Holst on CD.
The origeonal production/recording is so old that it doesn't matter whether its mp3 128kbps, or CD or FLAC, it is what it is, assuming you have a reasonable sound system.
Same with production value, FLAC rips of ministry of sound dance/techno don't sound that spectacular as the origeonal masters were not produced in top tier quality,.
Conversley, a well produced source, i'm thinking things like Michael Jackson can really make a sound system shine assuming it's uncompressed and played on a decent sound system.
What comes out of the speakers is simply the result of the weakest link in the chain, from the origeonal master recording all the way to the speaker cones.
Any form of compression will take away from the origeonal, we can all hear the difference between a CD and FM radio, right?
That's not to be confused with latency (in the context of playing music over a network).
and a twin cassette deck! #hometapingiskillingmusic
No one ever pirated music on twin casette decks*, it was simply so you can play the next album whislt re-winding the first! Take your mind out of the gutter!
#nobabyrobinswerekilled
*possibly not true.
My Friend when I was about ten years old had 2 VHS recorders rigged up together, he was very popular, I don't think Hollywood was much damaged from that, given the magnificent amount of big budget tripe they continue to pump out to this very day.
No one ever pirated music on twin casette decks*,
We were too busy pirating C64 and Spectrum video games!! 🙂
Yet another Denon DM-41 recommendation, quite a few going for less than £100 on EBay.
mine is paired with second hand Wharfdale Diamond V speakers which were £45 iirc and work well
No one ever pirated music on twin casette decks*,
* ah the joys and pitfalls of High Speed Dubbing
*what about painstakingly recording radio songs onto casette to give your middle school crush a humiliating mix tape?
Casettes? I used to record episodes of I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again onto my reel to reel machine using a mic in front of the speaker on my parents' gramophone.
deleted
answering the wrong question 🙂
Whilst I’m not going to get into the ‘what digital source’ sounds best debate as personally I think it’s all in the dac, the case for CDs is strong in my mind to the extent that they are probably still my most preferred format after vinyl and in some ways even better.
Firstly, I like to listen to music rather than have it on in the background so certain things are important including exactly what I’m listening to. I like to play an album, the exact album I want and I want sometimes to read the sleeve notes. Streaming can’t do any of that as I don’t usually want remasters with limited dynamic range however loud and crisp they sound plus some stuff just isn’t on stream. Almost all my cds are original releases.
CDs are a good way of finding new music not served up by an algorithm which can yield very diverse results and better still no tech companies know what I’m playing - nobody is using my musical taste to sell to me or anyone else.
The best bit is CDs are cheap and I own not rent them.. I own my vinyl too but it costs a fortune!
CD beats Spotify. Qobuz HiRes 24bit audio / Super Audio CD will beat them both.
Ignoring that and what you actually want there are some awesome systems to be had around the £100 mark if you can hold out for a bargain. Here are some approaching on eBay right now that may take an offer:
Teac reference 300 & 500 ranges (Couldn’t make this for under a £1k today) e.g https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204397385382?
Onkyo 500 range e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374667922109?
JVC EX-A1: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285353531482?
Actually that’s not true, the isolation of a CD player is very valuable from a hifi perspective. Listening over a network is major step backwards for sound quality.
And I’d say that I have no desire to waste my time by engaging with someone as arrogant and small minded as yourself. 🙄
Of course you’re assuming that the wires are facing the right way, and the interconnection between the player and the amp are OFC HDMI of the correct polarity. Unless you have optical TOSLink, but the polarity should still be observed.
yeah, spotify sound quality sucks balls in my personal experience.
I don't give a TOSlink what anyone says.
And I’d say that I have no desire to waste my time by engaging with someone as arrogant and small minded as yourself.
Yet here you are.
My point is there for consideration by others who might be interested. There’s plenty to be learned by googling, and of course by using your ears.
Aha. "Do your own research."
Thanks all, a Denon DM41DAB and some half decent speakers it is, I'll get an eBay alert setup!
Apologies to have kicked off such a vociferous debate about audio quality with my throw away comment... All I know is I like good music, but don't like listening to it via phone.
Cheap CD player (Denon, Marantz, Teac...) and a decent DAC would be my choice. Most of the technology is in the decoding of the 1's and 0's, and that has moved on significantly since CD players came out. I had a Marantz CD52SE that was great in its time, but ended up skipping due to weak bearing design. Now I use a hi-end Sony 7700ES battleship DVD player into a Cambridge Audio DAC. Your phone limitations can be mitigated with better source such as Tidal lossless via a laptop, again mine goes into the DAC which serves as a source switch for four sources into an small Class D Fosi "Chi-Fi" amplifier and speakers that sit on my desk.
I had Exodus in 3 formats.
Never had you down as a thrash metal fan TJ? 😉
Apologies to have kicked off such a vociferous debate about audio quality with my throw away comment…
...they've not even got going - directional cables and audiophile fuses haven't been mentioned yet! 🙂
And I’d say that I have no desire to waste my time by engaging with someone as arrogant and small minded as yourself.
Wow, that escalated quickly!! I'm just waiting for someone to blame the Tories- shouldn't be long 😉
Blackflag 🙂
I’d give my left bollock for that, if I thought that the first object of my lust would allow it in the house
Honestly sweetheart, go for it, I don't mind.
I have lots of vinyl in the loft and would love a turntable to play them on. That Richer sounds offer (sans Amp) looks like a reasonable place to start. If I bought that what is the minimum I could spend on an Amp to make it work and until I could upgrade it??? There seem lots of mini Amps on Amazon etc, would any of these be suitable?
I've been stopping myself from buying a little all-in-one hi-fi for a month or so, because I don't really need it as I can stream most music I listen to. I opened this thread in the vague thought that someone might know the item and say it's crap so then I can stop wondering whether to buy it.
Denon-M41DAB...great sound for such a small unit really
Denon DM41 .... sound pretty good for the money.
I have a Denon D-M41DAB with Q Acoustics 3020 bookshelf speakers and it sounds fantastic.
Another happy Denon RCD-M41DAB user here
And here to. 🙂
Ah, balls, you're a bunch of dicks! 😀
I have quite a large record collection as well Spotify. I really don’t get what CDs bring to the party these days. Other than the fact they are dirt cheap obviously.
I still have hundreds of CDs, plenty of which aren't on the streaming sites. Also, many bands I follow are releasing really nice anniversary boxes of CDs (or vinyl) with lots of extras that don't make it onto streaming sites. (And have nice boxes!) And finally, I follow plenty of small bands who release CDs which, yes you've guessed it, don't make it on to the streaming sites. 😀
I like CDs. I had hundreds. I now have maybe a couple of dozen, the rest are in a mate's loft.
Because, I realised, I was the absolute opposite of the OP. When did I actually last play physical media? Convenience rules. I had a huge drawerful of cassettes for decades, maybe 200 albums that I'd built up since I first started "buying" (copying) music in the mid-1980s. But I found, I was opening the drawer, using it for inspiration as to what I'd not listened to for a while, then closing the drawer again and streaming it or playing mp3s. I had a decent Yamaha hi-fi separates cassette deck, it probably got used twice in its lifetime.
So I curated the lot into "cassettes" and "CDs" playlists on Spotify, the discs went to my mate as above and the tapes went to landfill. And I'll be honest, it hurt. It hurt a lot, almost as much as the inevitable demise of my Laserdisc collection. But today I can go "Alexa, play compact discs on shuffle" and have immediate access to every shinydisc I spent money on, randomly playing tracks I've long forgotten.
It's the future.
@Cougar I have about 350 CDs, plus many more copied onto computer hard drive & phone, I can play them on shuffle by Bluetooth or network whenever I want, I don't pay £120pa or have to listen to adverts to play them.
I don’t pay £120pa or have to listen to adverts to play them.
Even when I get my next CD player I won't get rid of my Apple Music sub. I listen to so much new music - stuff that I'd never spend money on - for a few pounds a month that it would be lunacy to go back to only buying a handful of CDs a month (at a much higher cost). I will be buying the CDs that don't make it onto the streaming services though, and supporting smaller bands that I like by buying their CDs whether they are streamed or not. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
have immediate access to every shinydisc I spent money on
An issue I find with Spotify is that I generally don't ever think "I fancy listening to <insert specific album/artist>", I generally just think "I fancy listening to some music" and having access to all the music that's ever been made doesn't actually help me choose something to listen to. I find having a finite (if possibly large) selection makes the choice easier, as I can browse through it and go "Ah, I've not listened to that/them for a while, I'll stick that on", and stick it on.
(FWIW all my CDs were ripped to MP3 in ye olde days of iPods, and consequently now live on my phone, so I can do said browsing/listening)
An issue I find with Spotify is that I generally don’t ever think
See, I find the opposite.
The barrier to entry I had for ages was "I don't know what to listen to... so I'll not bother." It's why the tape drawer survived as long as it did. With Spotify I can browse my collection for inspiration of a specific album or I can just go "play some music".
The thing I love about streaming are the suggestions it makes of music it thinks I might like, it opens up a whole new world of music and because I like and play some of the stuff again it suggests other stuff I might like and on it goes, I get to listen to tons of music I otherwise would never have known about.
I got a Brennan B3 and a pair of Wharfdale diamond 9.1 speakers. It is a great setup. I have ripped my CDs to the hard drive in a lossless format and can play them either via the onboard app and attached speakers, or over my Sonos network too. Much better sound than streaming and the best of all worlds.
I’ve got a denon dm-40, myself.
I’d pair it with the smallest quality speakers, possible.
The amp tends to run quite hot if pair it with any medium to large bookshelf speakers.
There’s a connection on the back (8ohm) to pair mine up with a line input of my bass guitar amp to take some of the strain off the unit (works great).
tbh, I’d invest in some proper open-backed headphones.
If you need more oomph, you can always send the signal from the ‘aux out’ on the back of the denon to an even bigger (audiovisual) amp, to drive an extra pair of speakers.