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My car, a skoda superb, has too much sag. Sitting too deep in its travel. Drove it to the Alps on holiday heavily laden - nothing crazy, done it before a few times no prob, but as soon as I got in it felt low at the back. Ended up driving it round on its arse pretty much - now back and it hasn't fully recovered.
Don't really know how a car suspension works - can it be re-adjusted or is something likely bolloxed and needing replaced?
Thks for any advice, car is 7 years old.
My Passat estate sat low, broken spring was the issue.
Broken springs on both sides probably. Springs break a lot at the end - as a cyclist you'll have seen loads of curled bits of metal on the roadside, these are the ends that break off and fall out. Easy to fix with the right tools, not so much without them. Shouldn't cost too much to get fixed, but get it done ASAP as it will probably cause saw-tooth wear on the inside of your tyres if it hasn't already.
I would take it to a garage I trusted.
If I didn't have a garage I trusted, then I would ask friends and family to recommend one.
Standard suspension has very little adjustment, they're replaceable items so I think you need to replace both sides at the rear.
Thks all. If the springs are broken wouldn't it drive horribly? It's pretty smooth tbh just low. But I'll get it into the garage and see.
Thks all. If the springs are broken wouldn’t it drive horribly?
Not necessarily - it might just sit low.
Yeah, you can have just a small part of the coil break off and you end up with essentially a slightly shorter spring.
If the springs are okay (but I expect you've snapped one/both), Suplex might have a HD version of the spring for your car.
https://www.suplex.de/suplex-katalog/?lang=en
If the springs are broken wouldn’t it drive horribly? It’s pretty smooth tbh just low.
You haven't changed the spring rate or the damper performance very much at all by having a slightly shorter spring and the damper sitting further into it's travel, so it'll feel mostly the same as normal. And you're unlikely to drive a Skoda Superb anywhere near any handling limits. Especially on the rear axle. Which is where you might come unstuck, if you were *very, very* unlucky and driving like a lunatic.
New pair of springs and depending on the arrangement at the back (and mileage etc) it *might* be worth getting dampers done while the car is in pieces. Last i did it the additional labour cost and parts for dampers, when the springs were being replaced anyway was only about 120 quid at a main dealers.
If you've looked at the car and thought 'thats heavily laden' then almost certainly you've been overloading it. Not hard to do with a big boot, and 50kg on a rear bike rack is more than 50kg on the rear axle, increasing as the rear overhang increases.
Quick google shows up a few threads on other forums, you might also find you can upgrade the dampers to self-contained self levelling ones, they are often fitted to large saloons. The rear will be low when you load it but when you start driving the shocks will level the ride as they cycle through the travel a few times. They might even be an option for your car.
Another method is spring assisters, plastic pucks that get inserted into the rear springs. Wouldn't bother trying to prop up old springs though, put new ones on before changing dampers or adding assisters.
Before any more advice is imparted, can we check it's not fitted with auto levelling suspension?
Springs usually snap at the end of a coil (at the bottom, where it sits in the cup, moisture connects, and corrosion then weakens them) which doesn't tend to change the ride height much.
which doesn’t tend to change the ride height much.
It did on mine, a bit, that's what I noticed. Wheels no longer matched arches. It got through a few MOTs like that. I'd also heard them go, but never realised what it was. Car drove fine though.
you might also find you can upgrade the dampers to self-contained self levelling ones, they are often fitted to large saloons. The rear will be low when you load it but when you start driving the shocks will level the ride as they cycle through the travel a few times. They might even be an option for your car.
I went through this ad nauseum on my ver similar Passat, answer was no. Self levelling is an option on some model years but only the estate. The self inflating shocks cost a fortune and you won't be able to get them to recommend you a part because they're not meant to be fired; they may also not fit as they are bulkier. And they are very expensive. I fitted airbags inside the springs eventually which was a good substitute to help with towing.
rear springs are usually easy to replace yourself, TBH... (If it is the springs)... no need for spring compressors etc as the damper and spring are separate...
Alrenatively - lower the front as well, and be the baddest BOI in town...
DrP (has a lowered LEAF and Octavia!)
<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">My car, a skoda superb, has too much sag. Sitting too deep in its travel.</span>
It's VAG*, so my immediate answer is "busted springs".
* they use** thinner springs with wider coils than other brands, which subjects the spring to more wear and tear.
** I read it somewhere, pub fact, pinch of salt, not entirely certain.
For context, I have owned a number of non-VAG cars, number of replacement springs required = zero. Of the 3 VAG cars we've owned, all of them have needed multiple replacement springs.
rear springs are usually easy to replace yourself, TBH… (If it is the springs)… no need for spring compressors etc as the damper and spring are separate…
Not sure about this. Pretty sure the springs were still under tension in mine when the shocks were fully extended so I didn't want to just unbolt the shocks. This requires spring compressors to hold the tension, and the typical cheap ones didn't fit in the recess so I had to trim and bodge a lot. Bodging not required if you have a garage quality compressor but they're not cheap. Having removed them twice to do shocks and bushings I took it to a garage to do the springs. One of those jobs that is far easier for them than you.
I think maybe one time I put a jack under the hub before removing the shock so I could lowe the arm gently. But that kind of thing moves it out of the 'easy' category IMO.
For context, I have owned a number of non-VAG cars, number of replacement springs required = zero. Of the 3 VAG cars we’ve owned, all of them have needed multiple replacement springs.
For added context I've owned LOADS of VAG cars and needed to replace broken springs on none of them including a few that were well over 100k miles and yet I've had to replace broken springs on a sub 50k Merc and Mini.
YMMV, I guess 🙂
<span style="color: #555555; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; font-style: italic;">no need for spring compressors</span>
What could possibly go wrong?
I think I'd suggest using spring compressors anyway. Better safe than dead.
no need for spring compressors
Yeah, that's *incredibly* model and brand specific. I've had cars that you can pretty much just undo a bolt on each side and lift them out, and others where it wouldn't be advised unless you want to see your fingers being mashed to a pulp in the wheel arch or against the hub...
This basically...
Better safe than dead.
well you don't need to compress the rear spring to remove them from 'things', whereas the fronts need to be compressed to remove them from the damper assembly...
Jacking up the car on axle stands, popping the jack under the rear assembly, undoing the dampers, and lowering the rear (via the jack), and the springs will simply be loose and you can just lift them out.
DrP
well you don’t need to compress the rear spring to remove them from ‘things’,
As I said, you need to do something to avoid a violent and dangerous SPANG as it decompresses. Don't go around telling people it's easy, cos it's potentially dangerous.
Yeah, I've worked on a fair number of cars, and all of them have needed spring compressors on the rear. In fact, all of them have had 'coilovers' (in the true definition of the word, eg, the coil is captured on the damper)
Please don't muck about with makeshift spring compressors, there's a shedload of potentially dangerous kinetic energy stored in those coils!
I've had cars where taking the top cap off a spring without compressing the spring 1st, will result in decapitation.
But if you feel lucky peering down the barrel of a *possibly* loaded gun and pulling the trigger, go ahead without 👍
My Dad's workmate made his own spring compressor and tried to use it on a strut in their workshop. It failed, and the spring (which was fairly big and heavy, as they are) bounced around the walls, floor and ceiling several times. Would very much have been fatal if it had connected with a head.
In true STW style, the OP states "I have a Skoda superb with possibly damanged rear spring"... another poster replies "ah, a skoda superb you say, you don't need a spring compressor for the rear springs" (but does mentin you need to lower the rear assembly with a jack), and we have:
-all cars i've seen have rear coilovers, and need a spring compressor (not doubting this. assuming you've never seen the larger skoda range)
-i've seen a makeshift spring compressor try to kill someone (again, not doubting this. but not relevant to the OP!)
FFS..jsut read here:
and watch this:
(different car, same setup)
I'm in a grump, having a bad day, and can't be bothered with the "ah, but it if this was [insert something completely irelevant to the OP here] then [insert something terrible here]" replies...
jus' trying to help..
DrP
<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">another poster replies “ah, a </span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; font-weight: bolder; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">skoda superb</span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">you say, you don’t need a spring compressor for the</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; font-weight: bolder; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">rear springs</span>
which poster said that ?
*isnt the quote system wonderful on here .... it looked fine in the preview....i would edit its about as accurate as the original quote anyway
ok..so i din't say "ah, a skoda superb"...but i answered the OPs question, which took into account the fact they have a skoda superb!! 😉
DrP
Coil springs can deteriorate over time, though 7 years isn't that long. My E46 (similar rear suspension setup to the above autodoc video) was quite prone to squatting down when even moderately loaded. New springs from BMW totally transformed the handling, ride and ride height problems. They were almost 18y old, but had only done 115k.
EDIT - neither spring was visibly damaged and when side by side with the newer springs there was only a little bit in it (<5mm) but once installed, it was almost like it had been lifted. It settled a little over the coming weeks, but no more sagging/wallowing.
New springs from BMW totally transformed the handling, ride and ride height problems.
I'm not sure that they actually soften (but maybe, opinion seems divided here), but sometimes new parts aren't actually the same as old ones. Mercedes in particular, they have the same part number for all springs for a car, but they have different combinations of paint splodges on to denote the rate. When I changed the rear shocks on my Passat which had been misting and were old, if not actually failed, the rear felt really stiff (stop that!) even after it broke in (I mean it!) and I was really unhappy until I changed the front as well which were also not leaking. They then matched up and everything was fine, but much firmer than when I got the car about 80k miles previously. Seems like Sachs' idea of what the ideal damping rate should be was different to VW's. And to be fair whilst it was firmer it did handle better.
I've been trying to research if springs to actually fatigue (to a softer sping rate) in normal driving cycles - it seems they can theoretically..
I gues anecdotally, cars DO feel softer and more wallowy after many years on the road..likely a combination of spring fatigue and other joints all being a small degree looser?
DrP
Yes, BMW wanted the chassis number (the reg wasn't sufficient) for the vehicle and from that pulled the build log and then supplied the springs. The new springs had the same double brown paint markings on them whereas others (on ebay etc) had all the colours of the rainbow. It seems that whatever system they (BMW) use, it is at the very least, consistent.
I really didn't want to believe that they could degrade, but I'd changed everything else (bushings everywhere, droplinks, dampners, ARB, etc) and finally decided to bite the bullet. What a difference.
I gues anecdotally, cars DO feel softer and more wallowy after many years on the road..likely a combination of spring fatigue and other joints all being a small degree looser?
Dampers have oil that degrades. They also develop leaks (possibly internally).
Rubber bushings change. With age they control joints less well. And eventually, "at all".
Springs change temper slightly, hence spring rate changes.
Lots going on with suspension systems.
Not sure 'anecdotally' is needed!
If you’ve looked at the car and thought ‘thats heavily laden’ then almost certainly you’ve been overloading it.
thats simply untrue. A superb for example has a ~650kg payload. Take 150Kg off for the front driver/passenger (although half that will be loaded on the rear tyres) and that lets you put half a tonne of load over the rear axle. The rear end of a superb when empty weighs around 500kg so you are doubling the load on the rear springs. That will compress them considerably, and is easy to see by glancing at such a car.
Please don’t muck about with makeshift spring compressors, there’s a shedload of potentially dangerous kinetic energy stored in those coils!
Ed just made one on Wheeler Dealers using some threaded rod a couple of plates and some nuts. Looked simple enough.
I saw a couple of youtubes where it looked doable, on my audi, but it got complicated, had to undo subframe, caliper, anti roll bar etc, spring compressor got in the way.
Did it eventually without compressor, but oh, if id known then what i know now, never again
Ed just made one on Wheeler Dealers using some threaded rod a couple of plates and some nuts. Looked simple enough.
How many years has he been in the trade? And he's probably got someone off camera showing him *exactly* what to do.
I could also make a spring compressor, and any other number of much more expensive specialist vehicle servicing tools... because i've spent years playing with them.
Yes, BMW wanted the chassis number (the reg wasn’t sufficient) for the vehicle and from that pulled the build log and then supplied the springs.
Might be a side effect of massively variable weight and specs on BMW platforms and RWD. Same car/chassis/platform with the same suspension could have a potential weight range of something like 500 kilos on the rear axle. So 5-6 spring sets might not be hugely unusual based on axle weights. BMW parts organisation probably don't track by reg either, only by VIN (which they will track all the way through the factory).
Ed just made one on Wheeler Dealers using some threaded rod a couple of plates and some nuts. Looked simple enough.
What grade of threaded rod? What grade of plates for the steel? You can buy them for £20 for goodness' sake.
there are several different types and sizes of spring compressors, maybe only a couple will fit your car