[Closed] Really Tense Meeting

Anyone on here combative enough to just get stuck in?

Yes but only if I can be of use, important also to be honest and say both sides are valid

^That. It's pointless being combative just for the sake of saying something - say what you believe and you will be believed.

My job is to provide specific technical support in major contract negotiations so its part of my day to day.  I still have days like that.

What Chinos were you wearing?

My tried and tested strategy for dealing with those awkward , on the spot moments when you don't know what to say is this.....

"It depends...."

Just leave it hanging there..... it might be 10 secs or so before someone challenges you on it.

That's an eternity of thinking time in this sort of  situation.

When the challenge comes, it's always the same "Depends on what?

Then, you verbalise your thought process and lay out both sides of the issue as you see it  without actually expressing an opinion either way. This will make you seem calm, sage and considered rather than sweaty and panicky.

If  pressed for a choice, you've now had a couple of minutes to leisurely mull it over.

I thought senior managers were paid to waffle and not provide a distinctive enough opinion that they could get blamed for a decision in the future?

....or you could have just gone with...

"That would be an ecumenical matter" 😉

I was asked in a senior position interview a few years ago (by an FD who should have known better) a question around my ability to make quick decisions. Quick decision making is often seen as a good senior manager characteristic even when a "quick" decision is not required. I explained, using words to the effect "A good manager always takes the time available to make the right decision, as oppose to rushing, unnecessarily, and risking making the wrong one"

Its just macho bull.

What Chinos were you wearing?

That would be an equamilical matter...

no biscuits?

Often the toughest part is just stopping - when you've stated your opinion (or lack of it) succinctly, just having the balls to leave a big awkward silence and let someone else take the job of filling it...

Anyone on here combative enough to just get stuck in?

Oh damn right I’d get stuck in. Been in plenty of tense meetings in my time, been thrown out of a few and brought into many other for “opinion” related balance.

I’m not outspoken by nature, rather a calm fellow.. but get me started and I’m happy to release formed opinion and I don’t care who or what level they think they occupy.

I once told Andy Hornby (ex Halifax BS, HBOS) and James Crosby to “get a grip, and stop pissing about with a damn fine Building Society” In a meeting of senior execs when we were proposing merging with BoS.

Did they listen? No the ****ing didn’t.

I feel like I spend most of the meetings I am in translating directorsbollox into something that regular people understand.

It's remarkable how often just saying 'I don't know, could you explain in more detail' when asked a bizarre question, stops them in their tracks and they have to ruminate on whatever the hell point they were trying to make.

A boss of mine once told me "You don't say much, but when you do it's worth listening to". I see no need to rabbit on for the sake of it. If I've nothing to contribute I say so.

Okay to say that you don’t have a strong opinion either way. It’s probably a sign that the decision won’t have much impact, anyway.

Rachel

I'm a naturally apathetic fence-sitter so I feel your pain. But part of my job is to give my 'expert' opinion and suggest a way forward to more senior colleagues. I'm always happy to give an informed opinion, but the problem is it's often not what people want to hear and I don't have authority so things get escalated and someone up the food chain capitulates which then comes back to me to sort out.

I'm sick of being played as the 'bad cop'.

I’m sick of being played as the ‘bad cop’.

What you need is a consultant, walk in deliver the news and leave with none of you needing to be bad cop or have the stigma of the decisions hanging around after. Sad to say but it's not a bad tactic

I was being looked to for an opinion, but I really didn’t feel strongly enough either way

Then just say so. Give the pros and cons and say no strong preference.

Tell them your long forgotten narcolepsy is just about....

I will admit that when things get a bit agro I'm prone to get stuck in, even if my input isn't really needed, it's just in my nature.

Most recently we were hauled in for a discussion over a big cock-up one of the guys made, in fact a perfect storm ****-up that had all our fingerprints on, if even one of the 3 things that went wrong, hadn't, it wouldn't have gone wrong, but they did.

I was getting tense on the way there, I said to the Boss, "we'll say sorry, but if they try to take the piss, I'm not having it" and got told off, reminded it was our fault and told to just say sorry (whilst at the same time not admitting anything in case we ended up in court).

We tried, but they did seem to have piss-taking on the agenda - really going to town, massively over exaggerating the scale of the problem, I was waiting to ask if I'd ever stood behind a grassy knoll in Texas, I tried to take it, but I couldn't, stood my ground and voices were raised.

Turned out they wanted a couple of grand compo, something I was more than happy to give them, but they felt they needed to go the full BS whiplash claim to get it. We parted on good terms at least.

It's been more than a decade since I offered someone the chance for a 'free exchange of ideas' in the car park, so perhaps I'm maturing 😉

A couple of years back I got called in as a very minor technical adviser for our CCG during a fairly major IT crisis at the local hospitals trust. During a meeting in which I was probably supposed to sit quietly, take notes, and speak only when spoken to, I took a bit of exception to one or two of the actions being dumped on us by the trust, and decided to challenge them. Perhaps a little too vigorously, it turns out. I thought I was going to get sacked when a 3-way stand-up row broke out (the other two stood up before me, if that makes any difference).

I might have acted differently if I'd not missed the introductions part at the start of the meeting, then I would have known the two people I was picking a fight with were the Heads of IT and Informatics at the hospitals. Fortunately, it actually did my reputation a bit of good in our bit of the organisation, since they were essentially trying to slide a load of their responsibilities on to us.

I've never been one to sit on the fence ..but I'm so glad that I left all the bullshit bollocks of " senior " management meetings behind ( more or less ) twenty years ago ..

A boss of mine once told me “You don’t say much, but when you do it’s worth listening to”. I see no need to rabbit on for the sake of it. If I’ve nothing to contribute I say so.

I'm much the same but conversely, I was once told that i was unparticipative and uncommunicative in meetings for doing exactly the same. When I said (to my boss) that i preferred to hear as much of the facts and both / all sides of the argument before deciding which i agreed with he advised me to just get involved without ACTUALLY taking sides until i was ready to.

So now (don't hate me for it) I'm one of those people whose input through most of a meeting is of the facilitation type (getting others space to give opinions while the alpha's all try to shout their view over); the 'question without a question type' (so what you're saying is that if we do X then we can expect Y to happen?) and at the same time I'm biding my time, sifting the facts from the bluster, until it's time to step in and provide the killer answer. But at least you know I'm awake and listening now.

I was at an interview last week (cross your fingers for me, i really want it) which was quite a difficult (for me) experience. i had to do a 15 min pres and then 30 minute Q&A on a subject i had no knowledge of until a few days before the interview. The pres was fine, i can speak in public OK and the pres was on point and well paced / put together - but then the questions, which were mainly conjecture sort. And while the purpose was to see speed of thought / firing of logical synapses into a reasonable viewpoint, I'm less comfortable with 'I think....' rather than 'I know.....' answers. And of course in a real environment, I'd answer 'I don't know but leave me you card at the end and I'll find out and respond'

And of course in a real environment, I’d answer ‘I don’t know but leave me you card at the end and I’ll find out and respond’

I hope you used that one in the interview! It's a good honest line

I don't really have a strong opinion on this, either way.

I used to have to go to bullshine meetings in the NHS when I had a promoted post.  I have found over the years I am simply unable to tell folk what they want to hear because I am unable to understand what they want to hear.  I am only able to tell the truth as I see it.

You will be unsurprised to hear that if I had an opinion on something then I would state it.  I also have zero tolerance for bullshine.

People talking management bollox would get " I am sorry, I really do not understand the point you are making.  could you explain in in simple terms please" ( If I was feeling polite.  If really pissed off I would ask them to tell me again in english)

I would always stand my ground when I knew it was right even to someone many tiers up the ladder - example being during the formation of healthcare trusts when a senior manager 3 tiers higher than me told a meeting " your contracts would not be worth the paoer they were written on and our terms could be changed at any time"  I pointed out TUPE would apply, law of contract had a role and that this was scaremongering nonsense  ~She wouldn't back down, I didn't back down, rest of the attendees were really embarrassed but I knew ( as subsequent events proved) that I was right

Of course being in the NHS I could not be sacked for this but I am sure it had a bearing on the fact I was refused further promotion.  Subsequently I realised management in any form was not for me and stepped down back to the shop floor.  I don't know who was more relieved - senior management or me.  they really did not like being called out as wrong publicly but no way on earth was I going to sit there and be fed this stupid bullshine and I felt a duty to the other attendeees to challenge the nonsense we were being told

So while you might not want to take it as far as I did I believe the right thing to do is challenge nonsense, to inform the ill informed and to make your opinions known.  Otherwise there is no point in you attending.

"I have found over the years I am simply unable to tell folk what they want to hear because I am unable to understand what they want to hear.  I am only able to tell the truth as I see it."

crikey , sounds like me. No wonder I'm sat in a dungeon. 🙂

I tend to just listen in 'bullshit' meetings rather than actually participate. it saves time.

In meetings that I call, I start with the line - 'we are all intelligent people so we should be able to sort this out in 10 mins then go home'

I’m not very good at meetings, I’ll either switch off and look out the window doing bus surveys or if enough BS is flowing about getting the job done, point out the Rules and Regs they want flouting and how it contravenes our “life saving” rules.  I also point out that we are merely repeating the cockups of the past (usually quoting events) and what they should really do is listen to X as they seem to know how to get round the problem instead behaving like It’s a chimps tea party.

funnily enough a) I don’t get invited to many meetings and b) I had to switch disciplines in order to get a promotion.  😁

almost every meeting I attend it's this.

You will be unsurprised to hear that if I had an opinion on something then I would state it.  I also have zero tolerance for bullshine.

You're missing the point here, which is that the OP didn't have a strong opinion on the matter in question, but felt stressed at admitting that.

All the stuff about how forthright you are doesn't really have much relevance here, except that you seem determined to have an opinion on everything, which in turn is arguably a reflection of why the OP seemingly feels uneasy at not having one.

Edit: sorry, that was possibly a bit mean, but we seem to have veered away from the original question into a sort of litany of how people are admirably blunt in meetings when they do have a strong opinion. Really though the OP was raising the question of why he felt he ought to display some evidence of having strong convictions, even when he didn't. I'm guessing it's a mix of self expectation, meeting culture, societal norms and corporate expectations at his place of work. But who knows. Like I said, I don't really have a strong opinion or feel the need to shout about it 😉

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, even you 🤣

I think my shining moment in a meeting was when I suggested "we don't need to go to the far end of a fart". I thought it was a commonly known phrase but apparently not!

I too get paid to give an expert opinion, and I make recommendations that are acted upon.  I sometimes get asked my opinion on things in which I am not an expert, or on things that are unknown or undecided.

I think I'm quite good at handling it because I just resort to facts and logic.  If a meeting cannot reach a conclusion about something, then I try to speak up and identify why we cannot reach a conclusion.  Sometimes the reason you cannot choose between two options is because there is nothing in it.  You need to be able to figure out *why* there is nothing to choose.  If both options will work, then say that - and you can choose on whatever grounds you like.  Toss a coin if you want.  Sometimes you cannot reach a conclusion because facts are unknown.  If this is the case, then a decision is demonstrably impossible.  So you either have to go and find out something - or accept that a decision you make may not be optimal - but then again you can justify exactly *why* you had no choice but to make a sub-optimal decision.

In the OP's case, I would have said 'I do not have an opinion on this, and here's exactly why I do not have one...'  Then if no-one has an opinion, then I'd have said something along the lines of 'well then it doesn't matter, so I'll pick X on the grounds I like the colour of the brochure' or whatever.  But that's only after you've accounted for all the other important issues.

I’m guessing it’s a mix of self expectation, meeting culture, societal norms and corporate expectations at his place of work.

You might be right....

BWD

Fair point but the key bit was my last para - so obviously if you do not have an opinion do not make one up.  Its fine to say - "I do not have a strong opinion on this"

Fair point but the key bit was my last para – so obviously if you do not have an opinion do not make one up.  Its fine to say – “I do not have a strong opinion on this”

I'm not sure your final paragraph actually says that, but equally I don't really have a strong opinion on that either way 😉

I don’t really have a strong opinion on that either way

So just to clarify, you're saying that you neither agree nor disagree with that position?

Chewk, you've been quiet on this so far, do you have anything to say?

(I'll go back to sleep now, satisfied that you lot think i am actually participating in this discussion)

So just to clarify, you’re saying that you neither agree nor disagree with that position?

It depends....

So just to clarify, you’re saying that you neither agree nor disagree with that position?

I think I've made my point already.

Er, can I just ask which of you is taking the minutes please?

*and that's me out*