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Back from Morzine.
Its lovely, fewest braking bumps ever due to the late start.
Masks on in shops (observed by everyone), and if you want to go to the loo in a restaurant or bar (observed by most), and on the enclosed lifts (enforced on entry, but you can take them off once you get on - I only kept mine on when I was sharing with a stranger).
Weren't allowed in the hot tub, but other than that all as normal.
Drove due to flights being cancelled, took food so we only needed to stop at the more remote toilet aires. On eurotunnel you must remain in your car, which is so much more pleasant than normal when you usually have to get out of the way of everyone who marches their 5 hyperactive kids down the length of the train for an exciting toilet trip.
Heads up if you're traveling in France.
From today onwards there's a fixed fine of 135€ for anyone not wearing a mask in enclosed public spaces. 
the enclosed lifts (enforced on entry, but you can take them off once you get on – I only kept mine on when I was sharing with a stranger)
Please remember that wearing a mask is about keeping surfaces free of stuff that comes out of your nose and mouth, not so much about being in the same space at the same time to pass the virus on. Small enclosed spaces, that others will be getting in soon after you, are a good place to use masks to avoid passing the virus on.
Why, just why is the UK refusing to do this?
51st State complex. BloJo wants to align with the dyingest country on the planet.
Been in Paris for the last 10 days. Life seems to be much more "normal" than UK, lot of mask wearing and gel dispensers everywhere inluding in shops and on the street. Mask wearing is near 100% in shops and a lot outside, with the usual mask-on-chin thing in many cases. Masks are for sale everywhere, from boxes of 50 surgical masks to funky African print ones made in small sewing shops.
For all the mocking Boris got for "stay alert", did any of my fellow visitors to france find the "this summer, we must keep good reflexes*" slogans to be of equally wishy washy useless vagueness?
Or is it only fun to mock Tories?
*my crap literal translation, but I can't really find a less silly alternate wording
Réflexes in this case translates as habits.
It's not a throwaway slogan thought up just for this occasion. "Les bons réflexes" is often used when advising on correct behaviour, for instance every summer when the masses hit the autoroutes "les bons réflexes" are often listed or announced on Radio Traffic; stopping every two hours, staying hydrated, etc.
Spain not looking good for this that rushed out once the restrictions were lifted.
Scotland managed a whole 4 days before reverting to quarantine on return.
The chances of any of them actually bothering to quarantine?
Tui cancelling flights also, plus cases in Germany on the rise. I can see Spanish Hols being restricted once again very soon.
Glad we defaulted to a cottage in Norfolk now...
5 weeks intil we’re due in Ibiza, not looking likely I’m afraid.
I could feasibly quarantine and work from home (I’d not be happy, but I could), but Mrs Lunge can’t do that so I suspect staying away.
Lots of folk on the telly trying to justify why they shouldn't have to quarantine with some.quote wishy washy pish so I expect your probably right Dan.
The chances of any of them actually bothering to quarantine?
I hope your wrong and most people will be responsible, as they have been with lockdown. Sadly, the lack of resources to effectively enforce our lockdown lite makes me think this can't be policed properly either.
I’m in the Canaries right now and will be observing the quarantine on my return later today even though you lot currently in the UK are much closer to the affected areas than I currently am.
Our respective workplaces aren’t happy about it and I have no idea if I’ll be paid. I don’t think I can assemble heavy plant in my garage...
We were supposed to be in Spain right now. We cancelled for this scenario being on the cards, and also other reasons. Glad we did.
Our respective workplaces aren’t happy about it
To be fair you did put yourself in harms way. It’s like doing something stupid on a bike and being unable to work for a fortnight. They wouldn’t be happy about that either.
Not sure how you think that’s being fair. If the gov travel advice is correct now it was also correct when we flew. As the non essential travel ban was lifted the flight went ahead so our options were to follow the advice and go or stay home and wave goodbye to £2500. There still is no non essential travel ban for the Canaries even now so getting quarantined on return is a little galling.
Fluid situations change shock.
It was pretty forseeable for anyone looking objectively at it. While not certain it was a high risk
I don’t want to pile on, but surely it hasn’t escaped your attention that the govt hasn’t got a ****ing clue what’s going on or how to handle the situation, since day 1? Official travel advice is useful for knowing whether or not your insurance will pay out, nothing more!If the gov travel advice is correct now it was also correct when we flew.
Still doesn’t explain why it’s ok to go to the Islands but not to come back. It’s contradictory at the very least.
That's not what it says though . It says go but when you get back take mandatory precautions to ensure you are not an import spreader
I don’t want to pile on, but surely it hasn’t escaped your attention that the govt hasn’t got a **** clue what’s going on or how to handle the situation, since day 1? Official travel advice is useful for knowing whether or not your insurance will pay out, nothing more!
This
Still doesn’t explain why it’s ok to go to the Islands but not to come back. It’s contradictory at the very least.
Because its up to the Islands as the whether they want to let us in, and currently they do. The rules for coming into England from Spain are today, different.
wave goodbye to £2500.
How much will 2 weeks lost work cost you? You took that risk in balance. However, your company may yet be OK with it a sick leave or something, nobody knows until you call them tomorrow so all is not lost yet.
We were supposed to be in Spain right now. We cancelled for this scenario being on the cards... Glad we did.
+1. Not just for the Holiday scenario but I bet sitting in an airport right now is a pretty horrendous experience, which for me and the way my head works would have ruined the preceding 10 days anyway.
Spain decides who it takes, not us. UKGov decides who it takes back with mitigation of an isolation period, not Spain.
It was always the gamble people took, going away.
Shame the travel advice was changed to allow anyone to go but good that this has happened now rather than in a few weeks when far more folk would have been there. Anyone who goes abroad nowadays without thinking this might be the outcome is pretty naive!
its not just a blunt tool, its nothing better than a club.
spain is experiencing increased virus incidence IN SOME AREAS, i dont see anyone advising limiting travel to UK based holidays where their route passes through/near watford, luton, leicester etc.
as i said at the top of this page, six days ago, on entering the UK there were zero checks - unless you believe that after we created and implemented the digital customs checks in the irish sea, we moved swiftly onto thermal imaging cameras, linked to passport details, cross checked to airline check-in data, headcount on the flight and facial recognition in the airport.
It was obvious that there was a a big risk of something like the quarantine on return from Spain happening which is why I cancelled all plans to go out of scotland this year
We arrived in Spain on Thursday. Left Bristol at 3am and arrived (near Bilbao) at 9.20pm. Via tunnel. Took all our own food so had no contact with others on the way. We have a house here which suffers if left locked up for too long. Damp and wildlife soon take charge. We’ll quarantine on return. I’m self employed and work from home so it’s annoying but not the end of the world. Makes me more angry thinking at Dom and his ‘ eye test’.
It would be nice if you could get a test on return to avoid quarantine, like in Germany.
Local beaches are crazy busy as everyone is holidaying locally. We are swimming in the evening or hidden spots to avoid.
Sat on an easyjet flight back from majorca waiting to take off, been in majorca for 3 weeks, for us quarantine is annoying but not a major issue.
But I feel for everyone who it is a major issue for who flew out in the last few days on summer hols.
Seems like a very blunt instrument, not sure why we can't take a test on arrival like Germany are doing.
There is a glimmer of hope in that Spain are petitioning the UK to exclude the Islands from the quarantine. Only time will tell how effective that petition is.
I knew it was a risk, and I'll probably be paid as precedent was set at the start of the crisis. My wife will be paid, my son will be paid but his GF has already had a week off due to self-isolation so she may only be paid for one week.
The lack of actual testing in the UK is a farce.
I think it's reasonably likely that the Balearic and canaries will be excluded from the quarantine by the weekend.
A few notes on quarantine from Australia, which you may find interesting:
Australia was pretty quick to shut down it's borders, allowing only citizens (or "permanent residents") back in - this was still a significant number of inbound people (thousands a day). All returning travelers, regardless of where they had been, were required to self-quarantine for 14 days. This was prior to the first peak.
Not sure what the data was, but the NSW government realized that people weren't self-quarantining strictly enough, so they introduced fines, and used Army personnel (under the direction of the police) to knock on the doors of people at home who were supposed to be quarantining. I don't think Melbourne (Vic) did this, but Sydney (NSW) certainly did. From memory, this was about when we were seeing about 100 ish new cases a day in NSW.
Soon after that, it was announced that all overseas arrivals (which were only returning Aussies anyway) would be taken directly from the airport and locked in a hotel for 14 days on arrival. They didn't trust that (even with checks) returning travelers would self quarantine.
Here's a picture of my friend arriving home with her family from Vietnam at the end of March, being taken to a (quite posh!) hotel in circular quay, where she was locked in a room for 14 days (it was on the front of several newspapers).
This has been the reality since then - you can leave the country, but when you return home you will be quarantined under lock-and-key for 14 days. Since then, NSW has recorded single digit or low-teen new case numbers every 24 hours for the last few months, despite high testing rates.
During that period, we've been getting daily briefings on the number of tests and the number of new cases. Typically all, or all but one/two cases each day were from people in quarantine. It was surprising (maybe not) to hear how many of them had actually caught it on the plane home.
HOWEVER, things have changed in the last few weeks:
The quarantine hotels in Melbourne haven't been run by the police/army, they've been run by security guards. This has resulted in them being quite "leaky": Hotel staff catching it and taking it home, people testing positive but then being allowed home while still symptomatic, and (I'm not kidding) security guards shagging the "inmates". This has led to a massive spike in Melbourne/Victoria, with about 500 cases a day now, and yesterday 10 people died in a single day (the total deaths for the whole of Australia has been 104 for months). Basically the whole of melbourne is in lockdown (much stricter than the initial) and NSW risks going back into lockdown because of the leaky quarantine in Melborne.
As a result, Quarantine measures have been toughened up: travelers now have to pay for their own quarantine ($3,000 AUD, 1,700 GBP), and arrivals are capped at 4,000 each week so as to be manageable.
Because we have low numbers, we are able to invest heavily in tracking every single case, to find out where it has come from, and test all known contacts.
We've had a cluster in Sydney in the last couple of weeks - an infected truck driver from Melbourne went to a pub in western Sydney, which has resulted in 56 new cases, all of which have been genotyped and confirmed as coming from that one guy. We're having another cluster (46 so far) associated with a thai restaurant - I don't think they know the source of that yet.
Quarantining returning travelers has been, by far, the most effective tool at keeping our numbers very low. In NSW, this has been really successful - we had months without any community transmission, but Melboune have shown what happens when quarantine wasn't done effectively, and how then those numbers can grow super quickly.
Anyway - just a different perspective from over here which you might find interesting.
an infected truck driver from Melbourne went to a pub in western Sydney, which has resulted in 56 new cases
And this right here is why i'm still not doing very much at all.
And this right here is why i’m still not doing very much at all.
Agreed. Why anyone would want to get on a plane is completely baffling.
mate of mine is off to Jerez for a 3 day trackday in a few weeks... I messaged him when the Spain situation came up this weekend.
"Changes nothing mate" was his rather baffling reply to me.
We've done the local once since they opened, 1 pint in the garden and a couple of trackdays at Silverstone, no contact at all... That's about it... I'm not prepared to do 'more' myself. Although we have potentially an overnight in PRemier Inn in a few weeks... which i'm kinda dreading lol.
Agreed. Why anyone would want to get on a plane is completely baffling.
Most of my family live in Australia, not having seen them for 18 months is pretty motivating - if it was allowed I'd consider it but probably come to the conclusion that it has to be next year.
Work have confirmed I'll be paid and are dropping off a laptop so I can do every online training course they can think of. Yay for being a valued employee at a company who do more than just claim to care about their employees.
We're halfway through a 2 week break in the south of France. Keeping an eye on the r rate as the uk rules may extend to returning from France soon.
Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as we can both work quite happily from home - just tough on the kids.
Ironically we've been pretty well isolated here in a private villa, and driving ourselves around.
Masks are obligatory in most shops and are mainly being worn well- only a few are around the chin. Went to Marseillan yesterday though, which seemed to be full of French people who didn't want to follow any rules.
Work have confirmed I’ll be paid and are dropping off a laptop so I can do every online training course they can think of. Yay for being a valued employee at a company who do more than just claim to care about their employees.
My wife was offered that just before she was made redundant.
Just saying'..... but well done, it worked out OK for you after all.
Because its up to the Islands as the whether they want to let us in, and currently they do. The rules for coming into England from Spain are today, different.
No I think the point is that the UK Government is inconsistent between FCO travel advice and quarantining rules for the islands. i.e. the quarantine rule applies to Spain + islands, whereas the FCO advice against travel is mainland only.
This cuts both ways. An FCO ban makes it more likely that holidays get cancelled and therefore refunds offered. On the other hand, the outbreaks are localised, and so if you're travelling to another part of the country and aren't concerned by the quarantine restriction on your return, the FCO ban has the unhelpful effect of invalidating your travel insurance even though it almost certainly didn't cover risk from Covid-19-related risks anyway.
FCO now advising against all non-essential travel to the whole of Spain and the islands:
So the government decided that the initial FCO advice was wrong and doubled down when could just as easily taken a more pragmatic approach. I really feel for the poor sods in the Tourism trade over there.
So the government decided that the initial FCO advice was wrong and doubled down when could just as easily taken a more pragmatic approach. I really feel for the poor sods in the Tourism trade over there.
Cant win can they... People complain the government are not doing enough, now you're complaining they're doing too much... Sheesh.
The government have consistently mis-handled the pandemic, along with every else they do, why should they get a break?
If you travel in accordance with FCO guidelines, and they then change while you are there, are you OK from an insurance perspective?
Should you be making efforts to get home sooner (impractical if everyone did it), or is waiting for a scheduled flight to leave within the week a reasonable action?
Insurance isn't suddenly removed whilst you are there and advice changes, if you travelled out with it applying. You'd need to ring them and ask what to do about return but i don't think they'd be emergency repatriating!
Not sure what happens if you are delayed out there (can't get a fliggt back) and your insurance times out?
There wasn't anyone collecting paper versions of the quarantine form either, so they only have the details of people who filled them out online...
When we landed at Manchester on Sunday night they needed to see evidence of the form having been filled in on your phone (the form emails you a pdf at the end), and if you couldn't do that you were taken to one side and asked to fill out a paper version. But there was no validation that you fill in the form accurately, so if you wanted to you could just fill in with nonsense and probably get away with it.
No temperature or other health checks on arrival at Manchester either, unlike when arriving in Spain when you get your temp taken.
It all just seems like they're doing something just to be seen to be doing something rather than actually being effective.
Anyone returning from somewhere 'on the list', who is later found to have broken quarantine, can presumably be prosecuted or dismissed from work? But of course the Cummings rule applies, so come up with an excuse and you're OK. Basically tell no-one where youre going and keep a straight face and you'll be ok.
It all just seems like they’re doing something just to be seen to be doing something rather than actually being effective.
That's been Boris / Scummings strategy all the way through, same with Brexit.
But of course the Cummings rule applies, so come up with an excuse and you’re OK. Basically tell no-one where youre going and keep a straight face and you’ll be ok.
😂
I can see a trend forming: Barnier releases another lot of Brexit paperwork which can be summised as "No, go fish" and Johnson slaps on a quatorzaine. The last time it was France - which was quickly reciprocated which caused more trouble to the UK than France. This time he's chosen Spain. The Uk Covid rate is three times higher than the Costa del Sol.
It all just seems like they’re doing something just to be seen to be doing something rather than actually being effective.
There’s a lot of excuses reasons floating around about why it’s not worth testing temp on return but tbh for the sake of a quick temp check it seems odd not to do it.
South Korea does it and puts you in a special taxi home if you fail.
Well, Jet2 just cancelled all Spanish - including the Island flights to the 15th now. I hope no-on is badly affected.
I feel little justified in cancelling our holiday now - we would have flown out on the 14th....
Easyjet just cancelled my 5th September flight to Geneva 😢 this was to replace July flights. Flight coming home still exists 😕
@notsospeedydaz a Saturday from Luton?
Just claim on your booking number and you'll get both legs refunded
Saturday from Manchester, had a choice of Liverpool or Manchester when first booking now its neither
the sake of a quick temp check it seems odd not to do it
It's false reassurance. A one off check with a proper medical thermometer isn't a reliable way of detecting covid, and the contactless ones can have an uncertainty that makes them near pointless. You might detect someone with a fever, but you also get lots of people thinking "I've been checked, I'm fine" and being a little bit less careful about the stuff that matters.
Similar to the argument about false reassurance from masks, but here the benefit is much smaller.
Well we’ve made it out to Greece!
100% mask adherence on the aircraft and airport.
We are off sailing so social distancing no issue and all eating outdoors.
I love where I live, but a break was definitely needed.
Enjoy! We've just had 4 days up at the col de petit Saint Bernard hiking and dipping in mountain lakes. Now in Pila for a couple of days lift assisted riding. So grateful to have got away and all feels very safe.
Driving to Switzerland on Thursday, and looking at guidance even if there is a French lockdown not relevant, yet.
But it;s going to be a long winter, round two of lockdowns coming soon.
Been in Europe since early July, Spain, Italy, Switzerland and France, the only covid hysteria i've seen is coming out of the UK. Checked and double checked with my insurance before I travelled, got the ferry to Santander stayed in spain till the quarantine was announced then hopped over the border to france, then on to Italy, Switzerland and now back in France. The campsite i'm on is full of brits, way more than the other years i've been here. Its a gamble with the quarantine thing but if you're in a van/caravan/motorhome at least you have options, its up to you if you want to take the risk, but the situation is normal - with masks.
Yeah, but the risk is on all of us isn't it.
Its amazing how selfish and stupid people can be - the more people travel, the more the virus spreads. the more the virus spreads the more people catch it. The more people catch it the more people die or get seriously ill. Planes, trains and automobiles, crossing continents, hopping back and forth across borders - you guys just knock yourself out and don't worry - the situation is basically normal with masks.
Idiots.
Chill Winston
Its amazing how selfish and stupid people can be – the more people travel, the more the virus spreads. the more the virus spreads the more people catch it. The more people catch it the more people die or get seriously ill. Planes, trains and automobiles, crossing continents, hopping back and forth across borders – you guys just knock yourself out and don’t worry – the situation is basically normal with masks.
Idiots.
Shall we just sit at home with our supermarket delivered food and wait for the sweet release of death that way?
There have been quite a few people on here who have successfully made it to Europe for a holdiay, myself included. Has anyone caught the virus abroad, or known anyone that has?
Yeah, but the risk is on all of us isn’t it.
Its amazing how selfish and stupid people can be – the more people travel, the more the virus spreads. the more the virus spreads the more people catch it. The more people catch it the more people die or get seriously ill. Planes, trains and automobiles, crossing continents, hopping back and forth across borders – you guys just knock yourself out and don’t worry – the situation is basically normal with masks.
Idiots.
Ah the hide in your bedroom approach.
I think the vast majority of people in most countries would like to try to find a balance of reducing the risks at the same time as living their lives rather than hiding away and attempting to eliminate all risks.
No you want to find a balance between doing whatever you want and doing whatever the f*** you want. Its as much a disease as the virus and we all suffer from it to some degree but some have far more symptoms.
Why is it more risky for us or the rest of the population traveling in a car to a part of Europe that has a lower infection rate than here? As a family we are less likely to get infected there than here?
It isn't (much) more risky for you in the short term, that was kind of my point.
As a pandemic and for all of us in the long term however, it is much harder to control if hundreds of thousands of people are travelling around the world (or even around their country).
Sorry I just don't see it the same way. The main risk is people not follow clear guidance. If the guidance allows travel then it is acceptable. If people don't follow guidance then that's the issue. Regardless of it it regards travel or wearing a face mask in public. I would say the uptake on the current face mask rules is about 70%. Maybe less in small independent shops.
I can see it from both sides, but I do have to point out, the
guidance
is literally:
The Foreign & Commonwealth Office currently advises British nationals against all but essential international travel.
Accept to countries that are exempt.
As a pandemic and for all of us in the long term however, it is much harder to control if hundreds of thousands of people are travelling around the world (or even around their country).
I understand what you are saying, can I ask, do you believe the risk of spreading the virus when acting in accordance with guidelines (and general common sense with regard to cleanliness) and travelling to a less populated area of France in a car, is higher or lower than using a beach in the UK at present? It's a genuine question by the way, I'm not trying to disagree or prove an alternative point to yours.
I am torn between a trip to France that my wife is really keen to do, likely staying in an airbnb so able to cook and look after our own concerns much of the time against staying in the UK, whether we then go to a UK destination, or stay home isn't clear. The UK beaches look crazy and we visited a Norfolk beach recently, it was busy, but not horrendous as the South coast looks right now.
We can either live our lives and limit the impact we have or close down completely and hope it all blows over, I'm really not sure which we should do!
I think the moral of the story here is don't be a dick... you shouldn't really be going on jollies.
Unless you go to Greenland... that one was always a though nut to crack on the game Plague inc.
We made it into France and back last week. Before going we had to sign all-sorts of declarations for both directions, not one check in either direction.
It is said that the infection rate is climbing in France, it probably is, but I felt safer over there where everyone was wearing a mask in the shops etc. Even in the streets at busy times.
As soon as I returned and pulled into the services on the M20, only 50% of people were wearing masks. People were brushing by each other. I felt really uncomfortable.
I can see it from both sides, but I do have to point out, the
guidance
is literally:
The Foreign & Commonwealth Office currently advises British nationals against all but essential international travel.
Posted 15 minutes ago
Except for travel to the countries that are exempt from that "do not travel" advice
I had the same experience in Spain last week (family business, not holiday), quiet sleepy area, far from the more recent outbreaks in Catalonia and Madrid.. everyone wearing masks...ok not everyone maybe 1% not adhering, but they are handing out e100 on the spot fines, most shops and cafes have alcohol gel by the entrance too.
I really couldn't answer that. I could maybe guess that the France option carries a higher risk to those living there that you (or someone like you also doing the same thing there or somewhere similar) might bring the virus in via a petrol station, ferry terminal, shop etc on the way or if you have it already rather than you might catch it from them once there. The UK beach option probably carries a greater risk that you might catch the virus from someone else there who has travelled from a different part of the UK or abroad.
Either way the increased risk for you is probably marginally higher than staying local but the cumulative effect of everybody making the same decision is vastly increased transmission for all.